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Back on topic I have trouble comprehending how someone can wind up out of employment for an entire year without lack of any real effort to find a job. I understand not being able to find a position in your line of trade at times, but I can't understand why anyone would prefer the measly dole money over short term or part time employment while they look for something more suitable. Especially when you appeal far more to potential employers when you are actually in work. I'd wager people that end up on the dole for this long are not going for work they would actually be suitable for on the basis that they just don't want to do it. In my opinion something like this voluntary work might be a good deterrent to stop people being on the dole so long and not lowering their standards to do some casual work for a short while. Perhaps there are things which would act as a better deterrent but though I don't know.

whatwhat wrote:Back on topic I have trouble comprehending how someone can wind up out of employment for an entire year without lack of any real effort to find a job. I understand not being able to find a position in your line of trade at times, but I can't understand why anyone would prefer the measly dole money over short term or part time employment while they look for something more suitable. Especially when you appeal far more to potential employers when you are actually in work. I'd wager people that end up on the dole for this long are not going for work they would actually be suitable for on the basis that they just don't want to do it. In my opinion something like this voluntary work might be a good deterrent to stop people being on the dole so long and not lowering their standards to do some casual work for a short while. Perhaps there are things which would act as a better deterrent but though I don't know.

try it when you're 55 or 65.

Frazzled wrote:

whatwhat wrote:Back on topic I have trouble comprehending how someone can wind up out of employment for an entire year without lack of any real effort to find a job. I understand not being able to find a position in your line of trade at times, but I can't understand why anyone would prefer the measly dole money over short term or part time employment while they look for something more suitable. Especially when you appeal far more to potential employers when you are actually in work. I'd wager people that end up on the dole for this long are not going for work they would actually be suitable for on the basis that they just don't want to do it. In my opinion something like this voluntary work might be a good deterrent to stop people being on the dole so long and not lowering their standards to do some casual work for a short while. Perhaps there are things which would act as a better deterrent but though I don't know.

try it when you're 55 or 65.

What being out of work? I'm self employed. I'm looking for work all the time. Should I be expecting a slow down of uptake when I'm 55?

Or are you saying I wouldn't want to lower myself to casual work when I'm 55+?

Or it's hard to find casual work at that age?

...bit more clarity in general really.

whatwhat wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

whatwhat wrote:Back on topic I have trouble comprehending how someone can wind up out of employment for an entire year without lack of any real effort to find a job. I understand not being able to find a position in your line of trade at times, but I can't understand why anyone would prefer the measly dole money over short term or part time employment while they look for something more suitable. Especially when you appeal far more to potential employers when you are actually in work. I'd wager people that end up on the dole for this long are not going for work they would actually be suitable for on the basis that they just don't want to do it. In my opinion something like this voluntary work might be a good deterrent to stop people being on the dole so long and not lowering their standards to do some casual work for a short while. Perhaps there are things which would act as a better deterrent but though I don't know.

try it when you're 55 or 65.

What being out of work? I'm self employed. I'm looking for work all the time. Should I be expecting a slow down of uptake when I'm 55?

Or are you saying I wouldn't want to lower myself to casual work when I'm 55+?

Or it's hard to find casual work at that age?

...bit more clarity in general really.

try finding a job when you're 55 - 65. Its a completely, utterly different world.

In 2008, I quit my phd. I started looking for work soon afterwards. Initially, I applied for science positions, but I soon realised that my 2 years lab work in PhD counted for nothing in industry for some bs reason. So, I decided to spread the net. I applied for everything (this is about a month into unemployment). I applied in shops, in cafes, in cinemas. I got nothing back. The cinema replied saying they were looking for someone more qualified. The problem was, I have since learned, that I was being honest on my CV. I was putting down everything. This acted as a deterrant to people. They see a CV like that come in, and the top end jobs think "oh, a quitter." the bottom end think "overqualified, won't stick with us". So you're stuck in an unhappy limbo. Eventually, I got work in a security company by just outright lying about my qualifications. I claimed I'd never been to Uni, that I REALLY REALLY wanted to work in security. Oh and that I knew ninjitsu (I mean, I do, a bit, but not enough that I could actually win a fight with anything bigger than a yorkshire terrier). That was after 4 months of looking for work. Let me tell you, that is a DEPRESSING experience. You get insanely demotivated. I was applying for at least 20 jobs a week at the start. Then, after a month of that, I'd get so depressed I'd stop for a week, and then go back at it again. I only ever got called to one interview- the one where I lied on my CV. That's how it happens. HR depts are pretty bad at matching people to posts as well- I remember being turned down for a database job I was well qualified for because I had used a technical phrase that wasn't in the woman's list of buzzwords (multivariate).

Oh, and then after 4 months working in security, that company went under and left ireland, and I found out they'd been paying my tax into the british system, the irish system had no record of my employment, so I wasn't entitled to benefit. FUN! Took me most of 2009 to get back on my feet working in a creche that my aunt runs. So it was family connections at the time. But don't assume that because someone is well educated they are refusing to take manual jobs- it's not the case, we just don't get employed for them.

Frazzled wrote:

whatwhat wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

whatwhat wrote:Back on topic I have trouble comprehending how someone can wind up out of employment for an entire year without lack of any real effort to find a job. I understand not being able to find a position in your line of trade at times, but I can't understand why anyone would prefer the measly dole money over short term or part time employment while they look for something more suitable. Especially when you appeal far more to potential employers when you are actually in work. I'd wager people that end up on the dole for this long are not going for work they would actually be suitable for on the basis that they just don't want to do it. In my opinion something like this voluntary work might be a good deterrent to stop people being on the dole so long and not lowering their standards to do some casual work for a short while. Perhaps there are things which would act as a better deterrent but though I don't know.

try it when you're 55 or 65.

What being out of work? I'm self employed. I'm looking for work all the time. Should I be expecting a slow down of uptake when I'm 55?

Or are you saying I wouldn't want to lower myself to casual work when I'm 55+?

Or it's hard to find casual work at that age?

...bit more clarity in general really.

try finding a job when you're 55 - 65. Its a completely, utterly different world.

Fair one. Not something I can speak with much knowledge about. But all the same, I cant imagine the bulk of people on dole in the UK are mainly sitting in this age group.

Agreed, I have o info on statistics in the UK. I was just noting the comment about finding work.

Yeah to be fair MGS i dont actually mean 50% of that i say regarding politics... you know "march them all into the sea at gunpoint" i don't think "pinko" is a term people use when they are being serious do you? That sort of stuff is of course, comic relief, and i think im about the same as albatross in political viewpoints.

Except skateboarding muslim's, i could live without them.

I'm not really super right wing, for example, i would vote Obama over the other guys at the moment. The Republican party are just too chock full of the Jesus juice!

PA eh? Im off to CA on Saturday, Vegas for a week then time with the missus famlily and such.. and then i drag her ass back over here.

Enjoy yourself over there, but remember.. the grass is always greener.

Heh, it's funny, but becoming a teacher has made me a lot more right wing than I used to be in some ways and simultaneously more left wing.
I'm complicated!
YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND ME!

I understand mate..

I can just imagine being in your shoes myself...

A large and disinterested child is a bully.. a thug in waiting, he in unruly and rude, one day, he swears at you and throws a chair across the room. You have the child suspended and invite his parents to the school. They arrive late one day, they smell of alcohol, they wear shellsuits and smoke constantly, they swear alot. How does a poor child get a better start in life, when he has this type of influence upon him?

A week later, the child returns. You look upon him differently, you realise his struggle, you have empathy. You offer a hand of friendship to him, and then he spits in your face and in a fit of rage you bludgeon him about the head with a bench vice until he loses conciousness.

Did i do the right thing i ask myself?

Yes yes.. a good deed it was.

I think, really, what mattyrm is trying to say, and rightfully so, is that we all need to beat the hell out of each other (sometimes with a bench vice) once in a while.

They fit in the hand so nicely, those vice benches...

Benches are my main vice. I love a good bench, me.


Incidentally, what do you do as your business, whatwhat? If you don't mind me asking that is?

Ahtman wrote:I think, really, what mattyrm is trying to say, and rightfully so, is that we all need to beat the hell out of each other (sometimes with a bench vice) once in a while.

Couldn't hurt.

Culturally that is.

Ah, there we go.

There have been violent scenes as tens of thousands of people protested against plans to treble tuition fees and cut university funding in England.

Demonstrators stormed a building in Westminster housing the Conservative Party head quarters, smashed windows and got on to the roof.

Outside, a crowd of thousands surged as placards and banners were set on fire and missiles were thrown.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11726822

An absolute disgrace. Wait 'til you see the video. And when you watch it, remember that these people are rioting because they think the tax-payer should bear the majority of the cost of educating them. Scum. Total scum.

I am incredibly angry about this - these people do not represent me at all.

Albatross wrote:Ah, there we go.

There have been violent scenes as tens of thousands of people protested against plans to treble tuition fees and cut university funding in England.

Demonstrators stormed a building in Westminster housing the Conservative Party head quarters, smashed windows and got on to the roof.

Outside, a crowd of thousands surged as placards and banners were set on fire and missiles were thrown.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11726822

An absolute disgrace. Wait 'til you see the video. And when you watch it, remember that these people are rioting because they think the tax-payer should bear the majority of the cost of educating them. Scum. Total scum.

I am incredibly angry about this - these people do not represent me at all.

Shoot one or two of them and the riot stops. We don't have riots in the South.

...but you do have lynchings occasionally. Yeah, I think I prefer our way.

Albatross wrote:...but you do have lynchings occasionally. Yeah, I think I prefer our way.

When? You've been watching too much Hollywood again.

Meanwhile, from afair you're starting to look like.. France. Watch out for burning cars....

We also haven't shot any students in a while either but you brought that up.

Ahtman wrote:We also haven't shot any students in a while either but you brought that up.

Exactly. Look how long its worked.

Lets compromise. Get some bulls, some chewing gum, and a Bic lighter. I think you can figure out the rest...

There you go, Frazzled. Go nuts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynching_in_the_United_States

Interesting pictures on that wiki by the way, Smirky Von Smugness.


How about you just act like a mod and stop trolling what has been a perfectly reasonable thread so far?

Albatross wrote:There you go, Frazzled. Go nuts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynching_in_the_United_States

Interesting pictures on that wiki by the way, Smirky Von Smugness.


How about you just act like a mod and stop trolling what has been a perfectly reasonable thread so far?

Who's trolling? You brought up the hooligans. I just provided options. You should be thanking me, not being a horse's patootey. And there I went and procured the secondary "bulls in a China shop" option and you get persnickety. Did you not have a Bic lighter?

Albatross wrote:Ah, there we go.

There have been violent scenes as tens of thousands of people protested against plans to treble tuition fees and cut university funding in England.

Demonstrators stormed a building in Westminster housing the Conservative Party head quarters, smashed windows and got on to the roof.

Outside, a crowd of thousands surged as placards and banners were set on fire and missiles were thrown.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11726822

An absolute disgrace. Wait 'til you see the video. And when you watch it, remember that these people are rioting because they think the tax-payer should bear the majority of the cost of educating them. Scum. Total scum.

I am incredibly angry about this - these people do not represent me at all.

With regard to this, I agree with their sentiment, but very much not their methodology or behaviour.

There's a lot of pissed off students who voted Lib Dem due to their commitment to oppose rises in Tuition Fees. Several Lib Dem MPs gained or retained their seats on this matter. And suddenly, the promise goes out the window.

With the size of the possible fees, there is a distinct risk that apt pupils from lower income homes simple won't be able to afford University. It was bad enough when Labour buttfethed a generation with the initial introduction, but this is like getting a horse in to give you a real gaper.

Mr Mystery wrote:

Albatross wrote:Ah, there we go.

There have been violent scenes as tens of thousands of people protested against plans to treble tuition fees and cut university funding in England.

Demonstrators stormed a building in Westminster housing the Conservative Party head quarters, smashed windows and got on to the roof.

Outside, a crowd of thousands surged as placards and banners were set on fire and missiles were thrown.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11726822

An absolute disgrace. Wait 'til you see the video. And when you watch it, remember that these people are rioting because they think the tax-payer should bear the majority of the cost of educating them. Scum. Total scum.

I am incredibly angry about this - these people do not represent me at all.

With regard to this, I agree with their sentiment, but very much not their methodology or behaviour.

There's a lot of pissed off students who voted Lib Dem due to their commitment to oppose rises in Tuition Fees. Several Lib Dem MPs gained or retained their seats on this matter. And suddenly, the promise goes out the window.

With the size of the possible fees, there is a distinct risk that apt pupils from lower income homes simple won't be able to afford University. It was bad enough when Labour buttfucked a generation with the initial introduction, but this is like getting a horse in to give you a real gaper.

Sounds like they need to get a couple of wagons full of blackpowder and head to Parliament.

Arrgh! Found inadvertant gap in swear filter! Apologies all!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
They are threatening to recall their constituent MPs, which for the Coalition isn't such a good thing. Start losing seats to Labour (and they are NOT doing well in opinion polls apparently) and we could be on for a new General Election.

Mr Mystery wrote:Arrgh! Found inadvertant gap in swear filter! Apologies all!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
They are threatening to recall their constituent MPs, which for the Coalition isn't such a good thing. Start losing seats to Labour (and they are NOT doing well in opinion polls apparently) and we could be on for a new General Election.

Well if you call wagons full of blackpowder and handing out weird moustached masks "recalling their constituent MPs" then there you go.

I like frazz's idea

My experience of british university students was an odd one. They pay fees, at least some fees, which irish students don't. And yet, they seemed to value their "lifestyle" and status a lot more than any irish student I met. I was over learning a new molecular technique in the University of Liverpool School of Tropical Diseases. So I was kipping in the student digs. It was an eye opening experience! First off, all their food provided for them by the uni, score! I went down for breakfast and asked the dinner ladies (who were lovely, but taking abuse from some snotty little fether) how much of each thing I was allowed. Apparently, no limit! Sweet, I thought, and loaded myself down with meat, bread, fruit and tea. Sitting at the table, I started chatting with a couple of students. As I was doing so, I was tearing open the bread rolls with my hands, and stuffing bacon into them, and then putting the resultant delicious treats into my pockets for lunch, along with an apple and a banana. The students wer looking at me funny, and then one of them asked "What are you DOING?" I said "Oh, this is lunch!" and they immediately started laughing heartily and gave me that patronizing look that some english manage so well.
I was baffled. I mean, in a n irish uni, EVERYONE would have nicked the food, on principle. I mean, THEY SAID TO TAKE AS MUCH AS YOU COULD GET! I was funded for the trip and I still did it, because...because....it was free! Free food! Student's strongest instinct right?
Anyway. I later saw those students eating out in a cafe, which I had previously deemed too expensive (being mindful of my funding, see). That night, I decided to go to the pub and see what it was like. I arrived at about 6pm and sat reading a book and sipping by beer. Nobody arrived until 10pm, by which time I'd had...4? And was feeling pretty friendly. I saw kids buying 2 shots, 2 pints. I assumed they were buying for their whole table, and then saw them down each one in succession. In 40 minutes they got drunker than I'd gotten in 4 hours. Then they started to well, misbehave! Flashing their arses, yelling, puking, throwing food...it was bedlam. Definitely gave me impression that UK students were pretty irrresponsible, and was driven home by the fact that they all had loans out to be there!

Mr Mystery wrote:

Albatross wrote:Ah, there we go.

There have been violent scenes as tens of thousands of people protested against plans to treble tuition fees and cut university funding in England.

Demonstrators stormed a building in Westminster housing the Conservative Party head quarters, smashed windows and got on to the roof.

Outside, a crowd of thousands surged as placards and banners were set on fire and missiles were thrown.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11726822

An absolute disgrace. Wait 'til you see the video. And when you watch it, remember that these people are rioting because they think the tax-payer should bear the majority of the cost of educating them. Scum. Total scum.

I am incredibly angry about this - these people do not represent me at all.

With regard to this, I agree with their sentiment, but very much not their methodology or behaviour.

There's a lot of pissed off students who voted Lib Dem due to their commitment to oppose rises in Tuition Fees. Several Lib Dem MPs gained or retained their seats on this matter. And suddenly, the promise goes out the window.

With the size of the possible fees, there is a distinct risk that apt pupils from lower income homes simple won't be able to afford University. It was bad enough when Labour buttfethed a generation with the initial introduction, but this is like getting a horse in to give you a real gaper.

So what you're saying is, they are right to be upset that they don't have to pay their own way? I love the smell of self-interest in the morning.

Da Boss...what you encountered were not students, but 'fething students'.

They are a distinct sub sect of Studentdom.