GW responds to our complaints via Facebook

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**Red**

ShumaGorath wrote:
ShumaGorath wrote:Why is everything twice as expensive in australia? I can't really think of a non commodity that isn't at least 50% more (accounting for exchange) there relative to the US.

I just don't know man. It's as if businesses have to overcome immense tax and welfare plans to a country of only 22 million with a very spread population on a continent that is very expensive to mass deliver too because all it has is that same 22 million people. But really, why would GW charge in line with other luxury items in the AU territories when they could sell at a loss to support the hobby that they selflessly dedicate themselves too?

The problem is that it isn't in line with other luxury items in the AU territories, not even close. Other miniature ranges haven't had to do this to items that they stock to Aus nor have the FLGS passed on inflated markups on other miniature ranges to keep their doors open. This "problem" seems to be happening to GW only and while yes prices are slightly higher on luxury items in Aus they aren't twice that of anywhere else.

Here is a basic example
Maelstrom: Khador Epic Forward Kommander Sorscha £5.35 = $8.15 Aus
Irresistible Force: Khador Epic Forward Kommander Sorscha $10.50 Aus = £6.89

Maelstrom: Space Marines Commander £12.42 = $18.92 Aus
Irresistible Force: Space Marines Commander $29.60 Aus = £19.43

GW England: Space Marines Commander £13.80 = $21.02 Aus
GW Australia : Space Marines Commander $37.00 Aus = £24.28

OMG just did a few quick cals based on todays ex rates just saying ...

Automatically Appended Next Post:
My friend just suggested that Zapp Brannigan Should take over because he has better management skills than GW CEO's

**AvatarForm**

Isnt this a repeat thread?
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/369723.page

**adamantium|wang**

Neconilis wrote:
I'm legitimately curious, what sort of social welfare benefits were the $150K+ earners receiving and complaining about losing?

The Family Tax Benefit is Federal assistance to families to help with the expenses of raising children, and is taken either as a supplement to income or is paid by the Government to child care facilities to offset the cost of child care. It's split into two parts, A and B. A is for all families and the amount of money a family can earn before the benefit is reduced is calculated on how many children you have, what their ages are and if you also require Rent Assistance. B is a supplement for single parent families and is paid in addition to A. The Government has frozen the annual adjustment for inflation of Part A for families earning over $150k, and will now cut Part B off to anyone earning over the same.

We have enjoyed middle class welfare from both rightist and centrist governments for the last 12 years. The Opposition was hoping to ride the sense of entitlement that has grown over that time, but it kinda backfired.

**Buzzsaw**

The problem with this discussion of the "appropriate" price point for GW products on the Australian market is it misses the critical point: people simply don't want to feel like they are being ripped off.

The fact of the matter is, the letter, rather then diffusing this problem, forces it: the prices in question are set to subsidize GW's infrastructure. Which means, of course, that if you don't place any particular value on this infrastructure (which I don't in particular), then you're out of luck because GW is going to use every means at it's disposal to make sure you do.

As an aside;

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:
Buzzsaw wrote:

Oh, do come on. Alpharius is clearly playing along... unless the suggestion is that he's special enough to seriously consider the suggestion that the poor buy "beard dirt"? I do have a vision of a monocle dropping off at the reading of Swift's "A Modest Proposal" though...

No idea what portal who is but, irrespective of my gross ignorance and stupidity (how could I possibly fail to get the reference) the post was unnecessary and insulting.
I leave it to Alpharius to say whether he is just playing along.

I'll leave it to the austere powers that be whether "beard dirt" is an affront to the edifice Dakka, but... seriously? Never heard of Portal? I'm not sure if this is meant as another example of the inadequacy of this written medium for nuance, or an admission of inadequate familiarity with the standard nerdy touchstones.

In either case, it's probably something best dealt with outside of this particular thread.

**withershadow**

Buzzsaw wrote:
timetowaste85 wrote:
withershadow wrote:
Alpharius wrote:
withershadow wrote:
Miniature wargames have never been a cheap hobby (though still pretty cheap as far as hobbies go), but who wants to play with poor people anyway? They tend to smell, and this way they can spend their money on... Caroline, what do these people buy? Tattered hats? Beard dirt?

This is an ill-informed opinion, and it shows poor judgement in posting according to the rules of this site.

Please re-read the rules (there's a link in my signature) before posting anything else.

You are ill-informed and show poor judgement in not recognizing a Portal 2 reference. But I guess you're one of the unwashed masses, so I can't be too hard on you.

Pretty ballsy, insulting a MOD like that...how about just saying something along the lines of "Portal 2 reference, sorry if it was offensive to people who didn't get it." Might get a few laughs. Insulting a MOD usually gets a BanHammer. And laughs from those of us who enjoy comedic human suffering

Oh, do come on. Alpharius is clearly playing along... unless the suggestion is that he's special enough to seriously consider the suggestion that the poor buy "beard dirt"? I do have a vision of a monocle dropping off at the reading of Swift's "A Modest Proposal" though...

Considering the warnings, mod PMs and the moral outrage of several posters above you, I am sad to say no one is playing along at all. Not even a little. Special indeed.

**Scipio Africanus**

lord_blackfang wrote:
CX316 wrote:I have a relatively decent income for my age bracket. The average income in the UK is apparenly about 22,800 pounds. That's AU$34,703.

That's roughly around the area I'm making (give or take, I forget how much exactly I make nowdays, keeps changing) definitely not double the income.

Wanna try a new argument?

I'm sorry you're making half of Oz's average wage.
http://www.emigratetoaustralia.org/average-wages-australia.html

His age bracket. Maybe he's ninteen, bro. And average is nothing, 65k is definantly not accurate.

Also, I believe he works part time.very confusing how money works here.

Also, get official sources, not some site trying to get you to emigrate.

We'll make a historystudent out of you yet!

**Wolfstan**

Any chance we can a sweep stake on the next lot of excuses frm GW when they finally realise that Aus players have cut back on their spending / total stopped. Can we have a list who they will blame for that and why they now need to put up prices again?

**zombie**

Wolfstan wrote:Any chance we can a sweep stake on the next lot of excuses frm GW when they finally realise that Aus players have cut back on their spending / total stopped. Can we have a list who they will blame for that and why they now need to put up prices again?

It the fault of the internet traders selling black market GW stock to the OZ/NZ. A immediate 25% price increase for GW Oz will stop the black market and increase sales

GW Oz has not correctly priced their product and an immediate 75% price increase for GW Oz will be in place to increase sales

It the communist plot. an immediate 50% price increase for GW Oz will be in place to increase sales and stop the commie plot

Oz players are disloyal being bred from prisoner scum. an immediate 200% price increase for GW Oz will be in place to increase sales and make them loyal to the empire one again.

It does not matter what the excuse is I can see a retributive/required "price adjustment" of at least an additional 20% before Christmas to fix sales

**Kilkrazy**

taylor048 wrote:
Absolutionis wrote:Hmm... things are getting heated here. Here's a funny article to cool everyone off:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/1a11d074-61ec-11e0-88f7-00144feab49a.html#axzz1N2h97ENx

The funny parts:
'“If we don’t do a great job in the summer of recruiting the teenagers into the hobby, we really feel that into the next summer,” said Mr Wells.
He added that the recession only played a small part in shrinking sales this year, since the teenage boys who make up the bulk of the company’s customer base tend to fund their purchases through pocket money and part-time jobs – “and those seem to keep going”.'

'But the dividend yield of 5.9 per cent looks attractive for income seekers.'

I see you just posted this on facebook as well lol.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Why talk to a MOD differently than he would any other user. if its too offensive it will be removed anyway.

If anything, you can get away with a bit more against a moderator because we tend to bend over backwards in our desire to be even-handed.

**withershadow**

Now now... some of you guys do a fair bit of bending over forwards as well.

**Thrax**

Somebody needs to draw a sketch of Mark Wells holding a gun up to the head of the "hobby" and exlaiming: "Give me your money or the hobby dies!!"

**Kilkrazy**

withershadow wrote:Now now... some of you guys do a fair bit of bending over forwards as well.

**Thrax**

Kilkrazy wrote:
withershadow wrote:Now now... some of you guys do a fair bit of bending over forwards as well.

I dunno how they do it, but Japanese girls innately master the whole cute/oddly arousing thing.

**Ascalam**

Yet slightly unsettling at the same time..

Japanese girls have a kind of kid-sister quality to me that makes them a bit unnerving

**notprop**

This has taken a slightly creepy turn hasn't it?

**Chibi Bodge-Battle**

Wayland have responded in their newsletter
in case anyone hasn't seen it

Managing such growth has been far from simple; we have experienced growing pains like any business in any sector that has exploded in market share terms. Our growing pains have also been more painful as we continually seek to adjust to a shifting commercial landscape from our dominant supplier, Games Workshop. Like many of you, I believe that Games Workshop produce a fantastic product which gives endless joy to countless people. I am proud to be associated with them. Unsurprisingly, therefore, I read with real concern the statement by the CEO Mark Wells over the new trade terms which effectively prevents us selling Games Workshop supplied products outside Europe. Mark’s statement can be found here

Mark seems to be clearly of the view that on-line retailers ( and we are not purely that, of course given our bricks and mortar presence) “free ride” on the back of Games Workshop’s bricks and mortar outlets. We have sought over the years, and I thought with some success and recognition, to demonstrate to Games Workshop the value that we provide not just in terms of sales but also in terms of pre and after sales service (not to mention our activities at trade fairs), which is clearly equivalent to the service that is provided on the “ground” by bricks and mortar outlets. Quite aside from the legality of Games Workshop’s actions, we are confused by the commercial attitude of Games Workshop which hampers our ability to sell to hobbyists to the clear disadvantage of both Games Workshop (albeit maybe not their retail arm) and the hobbyists themselves.

I will not air anyone’s dirty laundry in public. Therefore, I am writing to Games Workshop separately (its board, lawyers and their principal shareholders) to share my concerns in greater depth. I hope that commercial common sense will prevail and that we can continue to work with Games Workshop to expand their market and bring a great product to as many people as possible at the best price possible. After all, Games Workshop not only has a clear responsibility to the market but also a clear responsibility to its shareholders (which, after all, could be you and me!).

In the meantime, we believe after the announced terms are implemented we shall be able to continue to offer all of our loyal customers the same product range that we offer today. There may be a small lead time to implement but we've been given a rather short period to react. We will comply fully and completely with the new terms and conditions of sale imposed upon us and will not contravene them in any capacity whatsoever (albeit we would not wish that to be seen as acceptance of their legality), all we seek to achieve is that customers both old and new are able to benefit from our view of the market wherever they are located. We all love our hobby.

**ArbeitsSchu**

Two-pennorthworth. Beard dirt is no longer cheap, but is considered a luxury item, like smoking and clothes for children. There was an article in the Mail bemoaning tax money being wasted on health-care and beard dirt.

Did Wells drag satire out into the back and neck-shoot it whilst he was killing the hobby?

**kronk**

That letter that Yakface posted... I just don't get his numbers. How bad are his Australian stores running that he has to charge twice the UK price to keep them viable? There is clearly more to that story than he's sharing.

Padre wrote:My State, Queensland, has, to my knowledge 4 GW stores. To put Queensland in perspective, it’s more than seven times the size of the United Kingdom, more than four and half time the size of Japan, around six and half times the size of New Zealand, and more than five times the size of Texas.

Only about 2.5 times the size of Texas, actually. I had to google that.

Texas: 268,820 square miles and 25.1 million residents.

Queensland: 666,876 square miles and 4.5 miillion residents.

Not to take away from your point, though. GW is totally boning you guys on price.

**Kotrin**

GW wants customer money. The best way of achieving maximum result (in their eyes) si simply to price goods accordingly to the buying power in each country. For long, GW prices have been completely unrelated to production costs. They do not officially aim for high volumes, they expect high margins.

Also, to achieve this result, GW has to control the entire supply chain, from factory to final buyer. If they could, they'd probably prevent/control eBay sales as well.

Internet sellers and floating exchange rates killed this strategy. In our global world, only suckers buy at premium price for long.

So GW reacted by preventing foreign sales. Australian players suffer from this and have a point, but dwindling AU sales can't compare to soaring EU profits because of renewed margins (or so they hope). Too bad, Aussies are being sacrificed for the Greater Good.

The long term strategy of GW is extremely simple: ban, hinder and neuter each and every alternate supply chain. Good sales are made through GW stores, and if no store is available, through GW online store. Period. Everything else has to disappear, once it has contributed as much as it could to GW success. Resellers, you know it...

Of course, GW ise bound to fail - simply because diehard fans like us will find alternate ways of getting our minis, like we always did. Trying to control prices over such a market is like preventing teenagers from watching online porn. No matter how hard your case will be, you'll always be one step behind.

But even if they fail, they'll hurt their own customer base a lot by trying.

I guess that in a couple years from now, GW will sue chinese producers from selling cheap fakes on eBay.
That's what awaits you if you push yourself into the luxury market with a quality that can be easily duplicated.

In my opinion, greed is good, but your way of getting money should be by pleasing customers and expanding the player base, not by driving people mad...

**CX316**

Scipio Africanus wrote:
lord_blackfang wrote:
CX316 wrote:I have a relatively decent income for my age bracket. The average income in the UK is apparenly about 22,800 pounds. That's AU$34,703.

That's roughly around the area I'm making (give or take, I forget how much exactly I make nowdays, keeps changing) definitely not double the income.

Wanna try a new argument?

I'm sorry you're making half of Oz's average wage.
http://www.emigratetoaustralia.org/average-wages-australia.html

His age bracket. Maybe he's ninteen, bro. And average is nothing, 65k is definantly not accurate.

Also, I believe he works part time.very confusing how money works here.

Also, get official sources, not some site trying to get you to emigrate.

We'll make a historystudent out of you yet!

Jesus guys, you're gonna give me some sort of complex here...

I'm 27, and work full time. I'm not a tradie or a salaried exec or something but I make better than a lot of people I know.

When you only have 20,000,000 people in a country, the figures for average income get thrown off by the thousands of tradies working in the mining sector walking home will well over 100K a year, plus all the usual millionaire crowd every country gets. Just look at some countries in the middle east, their average net worth is ridiculous considering the poverty a fair chunk of the country lives in.

It's pretty fair to say the average Warhammer player over here is unlikely to be making 65-70k a year. When I was playing in high school I was living on about... 10k I think it was and living on instant noodles

**kronk**

CX316 wrote:
When you only have 20,000,000 people in a country

Hey, you're from Australia? Do you know Bob from Queensland? He drives a white pickup and likes U2. Tell him I said hi!

**CX316**

kronk wrote:
CX316 wrote:
When you only have 20,000,000 people in a country

Hey, you're from Australia? Do you know Bob from Queensland? He drives a white pickup and likes U2. Tell him I said hi!

That Sharon's husband? Yeah, I'll give him a call on the old dog 'n bone... why the hell am I encouraging this?

And we call them "Utes", not "Pickups" (and not many queenslanders who drive utes are big U2 fans

)

**Wolfstan**

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Wayland have responded in their newsletter
in case anyone hasn't seen it

Managing such growth has been far from simple; we have experienced growing pains like any business in any sector that has exploded in market share terms. Our growing pains have also been more painful as we continually seek to adjust to a shifting commercial landscape from our dominant supplier, Games Workshop. Like many of you, I believe that Games Workshop produce a fantastic product which gives endless joy to countless people. I am proud to be associated with them. Unsurprisingly, therefore, I read with real concern the statement by the CEO Mark Wells over the new trade terms which effectively prevents us selling Games Workshop supplied products outside Europe. Mark’s statement can be found here

Mark seems to be clearly of the view that on-line retailers ( and we are not purely that, of course given our bricks and mortar presence) “free ride” on the back of Games Workshop’s bricks and mortar outlets. We have sought over the years, and I thought with some success and recognition, to demonstrate to Games Workshop the value that we provide not just in terms of sales but also in terms of pre and after sales service (not to mention our activities at trade fairs), which is clearly equivalent to the service that is provided on the “ground” by bricks and mortar outlets. Quite aside from the legality of Games Workshop’s actions, we are confused by the commercial attitude of Games Workshop which hampers our ability to sell to hobbyists to the clear disadvantage of both Games Workshop (albeit maybe not their retail arm) and the hobbyists themselves.

I will not air anyone’s dirty laundry in public. Therefore, I am writing to Games Workshop separately (its board, lawyers and their principal shareholders) to share my concerns in greater depth. I hope that commercial common sense will prevail and that we can continue to work with Games Workshop to expand their market and bring a great product to as many people as possible at the best price possible. After all, Games Workshop not only has a clear responsibility to the market but also a clear responsibility to its shareholders (which, after all, could be you and me!).

In the meantime, we believe after the announced terms are implemented we shall be able to continue to offer all of our loyal customers the same product range that we offer today. There may be a small lead time to implement but we've been given a rather short period to react. We will comply fully and completely with the new terms and conditions of sale imposed upon us and will not contravene them in any capacity whatsoever (albeit we would not wish that to be seen as acceptance of their legality), all we seek to achieve is that customers both old and new are able to benefit from our view of the market wherever they are located. We all love our hobby.

That reminds me. I've never seen GW at any gaming shows over here in the UK all the promoting of th hobby is done by Indies. The only time I've heard of them going to a show was the big Engineering & Modelling show held at the Royal Bath & West showground a few years ago. I had some friends running stands there and they said the GW presence was dire. My mates ran better demo games than GW did and got more visiitors.

**infinite_array**

Wolfstan wrote:
Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Wayland have responded in their newsletter
in case anyone hasn't seen it

Managing such growth has been far from simple; we have experienced growing pains like any business in any sector that has exploded in market share terms. Our growing pains have also been more painful as we continually seek to adjust to a shifting commercial landscape from our dominant supplier, Games Workshop. Like many of you, I believe that Games Workshop produce a fantastic product which gives endless joy to countless people. I am proud to be associated with them. Unsurprisingly, therefore, I read with real concern the statement by the CEO Mark Wells over the new trade terms which effectively prevents us selling Games Workshop supplied products outside Europe. Mark’s statement can be found here

Mark seems to be clearly of the view that on-line retailers ( and we are not purely that, of course given our bricks and mortar presence) “free ride” on the back of Games Workshop’s bricks and mortar outlets. We have sought over the years, and I thought with some success and recognition, to demonstrate to Games Workshop the value that we provide not just in terms of sales but also in terms of pre and after sales service (not to mention our activities at trade fairs), which is clearly equivalent to the service that is provided on the “ground” by bricks and mortar outlets. Quite aside from the legality of Games Workshop’s actions, we are confused by the commercial attitude of Games Workshop which hampers our ability to sell to hobbyists to the clear disadvantage of both Games Workshop (albeit maybe not their retail arm) and the hobbyists themselves.

I will not air anyone’s dirty laundry in public. Therefore, I am writing to Games Workshop separately (its board, lawyers and their principal shareholders) to share my concerns in greater depth. I hope that commercial common sense will prevail and that we can continue to work with Games Workshop to expand their market and bring a great product to as many people as possible at the best price possible. After all, Games Workshop not only has a clear responsibility to the market but also a clear responsibility to its shareholders (which, after all, could be you and me!).

In the meantime, we believe after the announced terms are implemented we shall be able to continue to offer all of our loyal customers the same product range that we offer today. There may be a small lead time to implement but we've been given a rather short period to react. We will comply fully and completely with the new terms and conditions of sale imposed upon us and will not contravene them in any capacity whatsoever (albeit we would not wish that to be seen as acceptance of their legality), all we seek to achieve is that customers both old and new are able to benefit from our view of the market wherever they are located. We all love our hobby.

That reminds me. I've never seen GW at any gaming shows over here in the UK all the promoting of th hobby is done by Indies. The only time I've heard of them going to a show was the big Engineering & Modelling show held at the Royal Bath & West showground a few years ago. I had some friends running stands there and they said the GW presence was dire. My mates ran better demo games than GW did and got more visiitors.

GW doesn't show up in the U.S. either. Nothing at Gencon or Adepticon, perhaps the best two places they could go to garner some positive attention.

**Kirbinator**

infinite_array wrote:GW doesn't show up in the U.S. either. Nothing at Gencon or Adepticon, perhaps the best two places they could go to garner some positive attention.

That kind of thinking is dangerously close to advertising and developing customer relations. Don't make me call the Inquisition.

**Le Grognard**

infinite_array wrote:GW doesn't show up in the U.S. either. Nothing at Gencon or Adepticon, perhaps the best two places they could go to garner some positive attention.

If you ever worked a Gen Con and had to put up with the constant yelling from their area every 20 minutes, them not showing up anymore was a blessing.

**daedalus**

infinite_array wrote:
GW doesn't show up in the U.S. either. Nothing at Gencon or Adepticon, perhaps the best two places they could go to garner some positive attention.

Forgeworld was at Adepticon. They seemed like decent enough guys.

Public opinion seems to only have them pegged as part of GW depending on some advanced lunar cycle I've yet to fully understand.

**AgeOfEgos**

Forgeworld was at Adepticon. The guy running the register was the guy that did the artwork for the Badab War

Really nice guys, especially for the long days they endured (busy from open to close with a constant line)

**Frazzled**

Le Grognard wrote:
infinite_array wrote:GW doesn't show up in the U.S. either. Nothing at Gencon or Adepticon, perhaps the best two places they could go to garner some positive attention.

If you ever worked a Gen Con and had to put up with the constant yelling from their area every 20 minutes, them not showing up anymore was a blessing.

Que?

**tgf**

lol, rather than adjusting our prices to match currency fluctuations we choose to make gross amounts of profit off of the aussies. We are doing it for your own good. BS!