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Battlefront miniatures to their credit realligned prices around the world last year to reflect the massive changes in what had been longstanding stable currency echange rates.
People I know who play FOW buy the majority of their product in Oz.
People I know who play WHFB and 40K buy almost exclusively overseas.


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Aspiring Champion wrote:Wells talks about loss of volume impacting on R&D etc. Maybe I'm misunderstanding something, but if I buy from Maelstrom isn't that a sale of GW product, and hence "volume"? Now they'll sell nothing instead. There's their loss of volume.

Hey Mark. I found them for you.

Aspiring Champion wins the thread.

GW needs to understand that if they keep their prices too high it will turn people off from starting in the hobby in the first place.

Aus., I feel for you. One word: Ebay. Even with shipping it should be a little savings, or more if you buy more boxes and consolidate packaging. Find a board member that has an account and talk them into putting in an order on a private auction.

I think the explanation is not unreasonable. For the slow, let me explain what Mr. Wells meant with the costs thing.

There are fixed costs associated with running the GW retail chain. Rent, power, salaries. GW has to pay these in AUD. Let's pick a number, say it costs 10.000 AUD to run a small store.

Three years ago, that was £5000. Today, those £5000 only get you 7500 AUD. But GW still needs to pay 10.000 AUD to rent the same store and pay the same wages.

If GW were to adjust prices down based on the new exchange rate, they would essentially reduce their income by 25% relative to their expenses unless, like Mr. Wells said, they also cut wages and somehow avoided paying rent.

Also, average Oz income is double that of the UK, so you can still buy exactly as much at local prices than the Brits can. What injustice...

I have a relatively decent income for my age bracket. The average income in the UK is apparenly about 22,800 pounds. That's AU$34,703.

That's roughly around the area I'm making (give or take, I forget how much exactly I make nowdays, keeps changing) definitely not double the income.

Wanna try a new argument?

So TL;DR is basically "we want to make pure, unjustified profit on the currency exchange rates and decided to f*** up anyone who sells out products using actual exchange rates".

Am I right?

Nice move, GW.

I just saw this on BoW, in short - does not compute.

Kudos points to Aspiring Champion.

I just think Mr Wells' problem isn't that he's only lost his marbles but is also a complete Moron.

So what about the complaints over the global price increase Mr Wells? Or did no one complain? (shrugs).

If they sell their products to their staff at HUGE discounts then their still making a profit on that. It's in their best interest to support these independent stores so people will buy their product in places like Australia - their GW Hobby Centre business model will not work in Aus or in America - these countries are simply too please do not attempt to get around the swear filter - Waaagh_Gonads big & their pursuit for global dominance is cutting out their rescources that should be going back into the hobby.

Surely they'd take such sales over none? I think they should hire a monkey as CEO - at least a monkey can grasp things a little better

He only beats us because we're bad.

CX316 wrote:I have a relatively decent income for my age bracket. The average income in the UK is apparenly about 22,800 pounds. That's AU$34,703.

That's roughly around the area I'm making (give or take, I forget how much exactly I make nowdays, keeps changing) definitely not double the income.

Wanna try a new argument?

I'm sorry you're making half of Oz's average wage.
http://www.emigratetoaustralia.org/average-wages-australia.html

Question for Aussies, given the rise of the Australian dollar (or fall of the US dollar) are you seeing falling prices anywhere?

Fuel should certainly be going down.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:Question for Aussies, given the rise of the Australian dollar (or fall of the US dollar) are you seeing falling prices anywhere?

Fuel should certainly be going down.

Oil barrels are still pegged to the US dollar.

Since news out of the EU is bad (relative), the dollar gained value and the price of oil went down.

Aussies should be paying less for transportation costs since their economy is doing fine too.

GW's argument for Australians is that the overhead for the stores requires the price? Is it that pure 'GW' stores just aren't that profitable? Would it be cheaper to just close down and allow independant hobby shops fill the void? I'm curious about this even in the US. I have never set foot in a GW store and I've been playing this game for 6 years and have 4 full armies. My local shop couldn't remain open on GW product alone but they also sell D&D, CCGs, board games, other miniature games, etc. and they are doing well. Are GW stores an idea that has outgrown it's usefulness?

Those figures are thrown off by our low population and the mining boom meaning there's tradesmen making ridiculous amounts of money for living away from home to work. My pay packet is far closer to what your average schleb is going to be taking home.


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WarOne wrote:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:Question for Aussies, given the rise of the Australian dollar (or fall of the US dollar) are you seeing falling prices anywhere?

Fuel should certainly be going down.

Oil barrels are still pegged to the US dollar.

Since news out of the EU is bad (relative), the dollar gained value and the price of oil went down.

Aussies should be paying less for transportation costs since their economy is doing fine too.

Fuel has gone up, most groceries have gone up, basically the only thing that has gone down thanks to the strong dollar is anything we manually bring in from overseas. The vast majority of stores refuse to pass on any savings from the strong dollar.

Just noticed almost 50 people 'like' this on Facebook.



Please sir may I have another?

They are just shooting themselves in the foot

They are just shooting themselves in the foot

Forget the Foot! This is full frontal lobe damage. Idiots

Miss Dee wrote:They are just shooting themselves in the foot

More like firing a minigun at their head at point blank range.

The only reason those 'naughty Euro wholesalers' were able to exploit the market was down to the insanely high prices being charged by GW in the Southern Hemisphere.

That fairly important point was not covered.

Also, no mention of the resin price hike and the plastics price hike.

1) As you know, we introduce people to the Games Workshop hobby of collecting, painting and gaming with Citadel miniatures through our Hobby Centres and local independent trade accounts. Games Workshop Hobby Centres run introductory games and painting sessions, beginner lessons, hobby activities and events. We provide all these services free of charge. We only recover this investment if customers then buy products from us.



2) Where we don't have a Games Workshop Hobby Centre, we support local independent trade accounts. These businesses provide a convenient place for customers to buy our products close to where they live. We support these businesses with local customer service teams and warehouses to ensure customers have immediate access to our best selling products and new releases. Many customers discover the hobby this way.


3) While this may seem great in the short term, the simple fact is that European internet traders will not invest any money in growing the hobby in your country. Their model is to minimise their costs and free-ride on the investment of Games Workshop and local independent shops in creating a customer base.


Yours sincerely,



Mark Wells

Chief Executive

18 May 2011

1) And they do this by reducing store hours on days open, closing other days, and maintaining a 1 man staff at most times so that none of those are possible while still working the register as well as making sure no one walks off with free boxes under their shirts? Not really true outside of bunker-sized GW stores anymore for the most part with their recent cost saving measures.

2) And if you *DO* have a successful store, they'll consider opening up a competing one to put you out of business. My FLGS in the 90's was the very successful and simply the best store in the major metro area; GW had a single store in the state for most of that time. When they decided to open up a second store for the ENTIRE state, they opened up on the same road 3 minutes away from that store and the FLGS suddenly noticed delays in getting new releases that they never had before. The GW store would always have their new releases for sale on fridays in store while they were lucky to have theirs SHIPPED to them on fridays and arrive till the middle of the next week. Coincidence?

3) Don't the major internet traders (Wayland and Maelstrom) actually have physical stores as its a requirement to be a trade partner for GW? If they do, I'm sure they grow the hobby more locally than a 1-man limited hour store the size of a large bedroom. They may not do much for the local Oz Games Workshop Hobby (p.s. when did this become a capital letter proper noun?) but to say that they do *nothing* isn't being truthful either if they have a store.

All in all, this is pretty much what I expected as a response to internet talk/complaints. The only response GW cares about is a monetary one so vote with your wallets, people. Continue to support your local store and the hobby in general but just redirect your cash to companies that actually appreciate it. It may require more work and a little bit of sacrifice on your part (you won't be able to buy shiny new SPees MArineZ!) but simply complaining obviously doesn't do anything.

lord_blackfang wrote:
There are fixed costs associated with running the GW retail chain. Rent, power, salaries. GW has to pay these in AUD. Let's pick a number, say it costs 10.000 AUD to run a small store.

Three years ago, that was £5000. Today, those £5000 only get you 7500 AUD. But GW still needs to pay 10.000 AUD to rent the same store and pay the same wages.

If GW were to adjust prices down based on the new exchange rate, they would essentially reduce their income by 25% relative to their expenses unless, like Mr. Wells said, they also cut wages and somehow avoided paying rent.

Thanks for the explanation, that's basically what I was trying to wrap my head around. But something still seems off. Let me work it out here:


Say GW Australia's division years ago cost $10 million (AUS) a year in expenses (going to use very even numbers here for simplicity regardless of how outrageous they are), but they make $20 million (AUS) in sales a year, for a total profit of $10 million a year.

Now let's say back then the pound was double the AUS dollar. So it costs them £5 million pounds to run each year but they get back £10 million pounds for a profit of £5 million a year.

Of course, they obviously set the price of their product in AUS twice as high as they do in the UK to hit this mark. So if a Land Raider in the UK costs £30, then it costs $60 AUS but everyone is okay with that because it makes sense...if people in AUS were to mail order to the UK and buy a Land Raider, the currency exchange means they would be paying effectively the same price.

But now years later, the AUS dollar is now equal with the pound.

Assuming inflation hasn't changed anything, and they keep their prices 'locked in' regardless of exchange rates, then they're still paying $10 million AUS a year in costs and making $20 million in sales for a profit of $10 million AUS.

But with the change in exchange rates, that's now £10 million pounds in expenses with sales of £20 million pounds for a profit of £10 million pounds.

So doesn't that mean their profits have actually doubled in Australia by the Australian dollar gaining ground (if they keep their prices the same)? Shouldn't they be able to lower their prices and still be able to make the same profit they used to? Or am I screwing something obvious up here?


I just wonder how other companies handle similar situations? Obviously there have to be companies that have stores or factories in foreign countries. I certainly don't recall, for example, hearing about japanese cars made in the US having their prices adjusted because of changing exchange rates (but maybe I wasn't paying attention). Does that happen? Or do companies lock in their prices in foreign countries and then stick to that regardless of exchange rates?

Has the internet and the ease of small scale shipping made this a problem for industries like miniature gaming that don't exist for things that can't be easily shipped (like cars)? Is this part of the reason why electronic devices have region lock-outs built in, to allow companies to lock-in prices in certain regions without worrying about being undercut by themselves via private shipping from another country?


I'm just really curious to know how other companies who sell globally have handled this type of problem if anyone with any actual knowledge knows?




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Kid_Kyoto wrote:Just noticed almost 50 people 'like' this on Facebook.

I think you have to 'like' something on facebook to be able to comment on it (but I could be wrong).

pixxpixx wrote:Working in a relatively small franchise that sells video games, I sort of sympathise with GW. And I figured I'd thrown in my two cents and try to explain why I sort of agree with their decision and understand with what they're saying.

The easiest way I can explain it is showing my stores predicament...the disparity of the australian dollar is so big right now its ludicrous to buy video games anywhere else other than overseas retailers. This pretty much strangles smaller buisness's like ours that are doing the right thing by charging as little as we can for items but because of the massive cost difference for local as opposed to imported items it puts us between a rock and a hard place. Whats the REALLY frustrating part is that everyone thinks that because things are $30AUS from the states or UK is normal, and that us charging retail of $59 or $79 makes us ripoff merchants that deserve to go out of business. People need to understand this very basic fact.....most stores DON'T OVERCHARGE. We put the margins (sometimes less) on items because we are getting CHARGED more as retailers. Not only is it illegal for most retail chains and stores to sell things from overseas (esp. difficult for my sector as there is region coding to contend with) but we also have to deal with store costs, staff costs, and various other things.

GW is in the exact same boat as most small franchises, even though they are a global company. They are a very small niche product (in the grand scheme of things) where their intellectual property is their only assest. They have to pay for stores, staff and everything else like the rest of us small fry's, except they have a tiny minority of the community to capture. They don't do price hikes to pad thier pockets and fill their vaults, they raise prices because most people are biting the hand that feeds them and accuse them of being money hungry corporate types. Fact is, most companies don't do things like this unless its absolutely necessary, and I for one applaud them on at least being upfront and honest about their reasoning about it.

People rage quitting because of this I respect your reasoning and understand completely with your thinking. I wish you well. Just have a bit of foresight next time when the next big company rolls around and they start raising prices due to the amount of people trying to undermine their own products.

As a businessman I understand and sympathise with your situation as a retailer.

That said, game players require a variety of services such as browsing, purchasing, hobby advice and playing space.

Modern retailing technology that browsing and purchasing is often easier and cheaper over the internet.

Shops need to add value in the hobby advice and playing space areas, in order to add the value to attract customers.

While this may seem great in the short term, the simple fact is that European internet traders will not invest any money in growing the hobby in your country. Their model is to minimise their costs and free-ride on the investment of Games Workshop and local independent shops in creating a customer base.

There is no free-ride here, the independants selling to overseas markets are still buying the product from somewhere at the managed price, not magically pulling the product out of thin air.

By having independants being able to sell their product for them GW saves on shipping, advertising, and all that other jazz whilst still making money from the independant selling the product...

The free-ride is GW selling a product worth sub 20GBP for 62AUD, or the current equivalence of ~34 pounds.

When you work it out like that, hell thats why they've done it, the AU would easily have to be close to the lot of the R&D budget, being generous with shipping, they're making at least a 50% profit against the uk price alone, not taking into account for any markup they impose on home shores.

WarOne wrote:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:Question for Aussies, given the rise of the Australian dollar (or fall of the US dollar) are you seeing falling prices anywhere?

Fuel should certainly be going down.

Oil barrels are still pegged to the US dollar.

Since news out of the EU is bad (relative), the dollar gained value and the price of oil went down.

Aussies should be paying less for transportation costs since their economy is doing fine too.

Big fat NO.

Sorry guys. prices enver seem to 'fall' here for any reason other than in electronic stores before End of Financial Year Sales.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:The only reason those 'naughty Euro wholesalers' were able to exploit the market was down to the insanely high prices being charged by GW in the Southern Hemisphere.

That fairly important point was not covered.

Also, no mention of the resin price hike and the plastics price hike.

Free market capitalism isnt "exploiting" anything in the market. They provided goods and services folks thought worth paying for.

GW is in a panic because the last sales quarter has been exceptionally poor.

The total figures are offset by IP sold on to FFG and revenue from computer games, all of which runs on the back of moneys harvested by competent persons outside their financial input, which explains why it works well.

GW retail is haemorraging, they don't understand how to take advantage of internet sale for themselves and there are too many overpaid unsackable dinosaurs eating up the gross.

add to that a layer of marketing who are focused on 'targets' i.e. very short term thinking and you have a shitstorm of incompetence and mismanagement.

yakface wrote: And now if they were to adjust their prices to make them relatively equal, they would not be able to maintain their infrastructure because they would be losing too much money.

My personal notice:

To whom it may concern:

I'm aware that there may be a new set of shipping policies, some that may affect users who buy from more then one source.
Apparently, You're [you the company] going to put a stop to that, by disallowing stores to sell your products abroad.
Is this the case
secondly: if so, why?
Its not like you're loosing out when the company drops its price by 50% just to compete.
I've no problem with going to My local GW if I need something quickly or don't want to wait, and you'd find I've only spent about $500 at my abroad store, whereas I've spent a metaphorical tonne [$3000+] at my Nearby Games workshop store.
Sure, this is over the course of three years.
Sure, in the big picture this isn't much.
But, I know that in the long run, you're doing yourself out of customers. [again, you the company.] people speak with their wallets as much as they do with their mouths. No long term gamer is going to put up with this. it is becoming ridiculous.
As a side note:
I compared prices across countries, your two major countries and our own.

Country
[sourced from the American, Australian and English gamesworkshop online stores, using your ground-zero - the tactical marine box.]

Why is Australia paying at least 70% or more more than other countries?
You can't honestly argue to me that this is reasonable? I'd understand us having maybe 30% more, but not so much as 90!



I'm fine with paying a large amount. I don't mind; its my hobby. I'm fine with the way in which the company runs its stores.
I don't care that you feel the urge to search my property to make sure I have a big black book and a dainty black one, or that when I've to systems, I need to have 4 books.
I didn't mind when you [the company] started enforcing my giving you [the company] free survey information.

However: this, this constant rate rise, this constant kick the customer in the shins and steal his wallet... it'll get to us.

and the longer you [the company] commit Total Customer F*ck, the more your vetrans, your staple; will leave, and you will crumble. [again, you, the company.]

As of now, I'm not sorry for anything I've said - Anyone who's anyone - even inside games-workshop - knows that this is just like shooting yourself in the foot.

I bow my head to you.

I've never known how to completely f*ck over a customer.
I think I've just learnt from the best.

Robin de Oliveira

PS:
Now that the price of oil has dropped again, can we see those 9-month old oil-related price rises drop? Thanks bro.

PPS:
I'll say, if you drop your prices to what they were in 2008, you'd see a large increase in income. - 5$ models was cheap, and none could deny you that.

I did have a table in there, and you managed to hit one of my points smack on the head. - Why the feth do we pay 70% or more more?


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did I miss anything out?

Fuel has gone up, most groceries have gone up, basically the only thing that has gone down thanks to the strong dollar is anything we manually bring in from overseas. The vast majority of stores refuse to pass on any savings from the strong dollar.

You've got to have competition to push any price drop, the oligopoly/monopoly we have in australia in terms of the supply of fuel means there is no motivation to decrease prices... theres no real regulation of prices... and in a free market, or in consumerism, profits is all anyone cares about and the only price drop will come from when a company sees that it can take some of its competitors customers.

GW is much the same boat, they have no competition, so why should they decrease their prices, just cause they're generous all round nice guys, sorry guys, business doesnt work like that.

Maelstrom and others have had the advantage of gaining some of the customers that normally would have gone to GW, and GW instead of lowering prices to be competitve have decided instead to restrict supply, cause after all we know the independants arnt selling their own product thereby not being truely competitive.

What needs to happen is some international laws to exist to protect consumers rights in these circumstances, local laws dont have the abilty to force change. With the advent of internet, and faster transport mediums, its all too easy to connect someone from australia to the uk or us, and GW has twigged on it and closed the gap.

I disagree with it being blamed on relative losses of income as i've said in my previous post, theres too many points where they gain some revenue from sales, just not as much as they'd like.

Call a spade, a spade, GW is a business and at the end of the day wants to maximise their profits. It might not be good for the end consumer but sad fact of reality is that unless their profits nose dive, this policy will not be reversed.

To echo every other sane protestor, dont buy their products, its the only way they'll hear your pain.

In Oz, a tactical squad costs 66 USD. That's a 66% mark up over US retail cost. How the feth do they justify that?

That's all I want to know.

Games Workshop is a CORPORATION.

Corporations are in business to make MONEY.

I'm not agreeing with anything that GW is doing whatsoever. But with inflation comes price increases. With changing currencies comes policy changes.

Corporations are NOT going to ever reduce their prices across the board in this day and age. Especially when they have a bottom line, and more specifically when they have people called STOCK HOLDERS who determine how the company operates with their decisions as purchasers of the company stock.

If you really want to make your money speak, purchase stock in the company, go to the meetings and speak your mind.

Holding back your wallets isn't going to make a bit of difference.

Those 14 year old boys aren't getting any younger, but sure as hell, the 10,11,12, and 13 year olds are there, ready to take their place as the buying public.

If they want to kill of the third world buyers, they will win this.

wallacethe5 wrote:If they want to kill of the third world buyers, they will win this.

Wow, another Malaysian. Apa khabar mate? Yeah, I really agree with you. I have an FLGS nearby, with decent prices, but even then I won't be buying any GW from them any time soon. Hope you have luck getting minis from elsewhere if you don't have an FLGS.