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Aren't salaries, rent, utilities, etc. all much higher in Australia/NZ? The exchange rate is pretty screwed up on their dollar honestly.


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spaceelf wrote:In the USA, a small fraction of the population earn more than half of the total earnings. It is rich folks like these that GW is targeting with its prices and policies. I think that GW will find that they cannot function without cash from regular joes and these people will not buy their products at their current prices.

Miniature wargames have never been a cheap hobby (though still pretty cheap as far as hobbies go), but who wants to play with poor people anyway? They tend to smell, and this way they can spend their money on... Caroline, what do these people buy? Tattered hats? Beard dirt?

Regarding the wage thing...

I was speaking to a redshirt who was advertising for staff, and asked how much he was offering as a paycheck.

He indicated it was around AU$42k a year.

This works out at around $21.5/hour.

If they sell an average of a box of marines an hour, i bet they'd recoup the cost of their staff no problems.

That is significantly more than a redshirt in the United States makes. They start, on the high side, at about $10 USD. Then again, most of them went under the bus when GW management failed to value their jobs a couple years back.

I'm amused by the sorts of posts that fail to realise most businesses get along fine with sound business practice.

The problem is the gamers have been putting up with unjustified annual hikes. Hubris has lead GW to believe it is always going to be the case.

Read the thread again
Some of us have already stopped buying. Frankly I have had enough and won't buy second hand, and it is not an idle threat.

I will be doing my best to encourage the youngsters at our after school club to play other games.

What you seem to forget is this is just part of the constant drip of rises, bullying and pissing on the Aussies, which incrementally hacks people off. You are taking the issue out of the timeline of idiotic management decisions.

The top brass need replacing before the company goes the way of the Oozelum bird.

Precisely, I majorly left GW about the time I realized their bits service was gone. Really? The one thing I loved doing, conversions, was going to require me to now buy an entire set just to get the one piece for a conversion?!? I think not.

I still have an entire SoB army I could paint up but I'm now considering putting up for sale. I could do the same w/ a huge amount of Space Marine stuff I have. Not to mention 10 years worth of bits in multiple categories: Chaos, SM, DE.

No idle threat on my part, I left long ago. I still play because I enjoy the friendships I have with the remaining friends that still play locally. I would never recommend anyone getting into 40k at this point.

Blueshirt today told me that it was 'just the annual price increase' ....

Phototoxin wrote:Blueshirt today told me that it was 'just the annual price increase' ....

Good times, only 1 more year to go until the next one then.

withershadow wrote:
Miniature wargames have never been a cheap hobby (though still pretty cheap as far as hobbies go), but who wants to play with poor people anyway? They tend to smell, and this way they can spend their money on... Caroline, what do these people buy? Tattered hats? Beard dirt?

This is an ill-informed opinion, and it shows poor judgement in posting according to the rules of this site.

Please re-read the rules (there's a link in my signature) before posting anything else.

Kilkrazy wrote:They are big countries with small populations however Australia and Canada are both highly urbanised, with over 80% of the population living in the large cities.

Sydney, for example, has 4.5 million people. That's larger than anywhere in the UK except London.

I find it hard to believe that GW are reliant on the under 20% of the population who live more than an hour or so travel from an urban centre.

Our cities tend to sprawl. So yes, there are 3(?) Gw stores, and a handful of LGS's in the Brisbane area, for example. The nearest LGS to where I live is three quarters of an hour's drive, and last time I was in there they kept practically nothing of GW's on the shelf bar the small, faster sellers... Everything else had to be ordered.

The nearest GW store is 45 minutes to an hour away in the opposite direction, as is the next nearest (and much more decent, storewise, although limited gaming-wise) LGS.

So you'll find that even a lot of people in the cities are ordering online. Australian gaming stores, with a few notable exceptions, keep a poor range and do very little for gaming, generally only having room for a very small number of tables if they have any at all, and walking into a GW store is an exercise in patience.

As well as that, small communities (we could be talking about tens of thousands, not hamlets with four houses) either won't support a gaming scene at all, or will support a small but tight one.

We had a fairly well attended gaming club when I started gaming in Rockhampton. At that point in time, there was one store (a fairly small Toyworld, so just the best sellers on hand) that stocked GW stuff within 500km. The club did far more for that gaming scene than GW or the local store ever did.

I can see that with the exception of the Highlands and Islands, and north Wales, probably anyone in the British Isles is within one or two hours reach of a shop, but it's not like they are on every street corner.

It's 45 minutes for me to get to my nearest GW shop by car or public transport. I live in west London.

I just did a quick search on the GW site. There are five GW shops in Sydney. There are only 10 GW shops in London.

Alpharius wrote:

withershadow wrote:
Miniature wargames have never been a cheap hobby (though still pretty cheap as far as hobbies go), but who wants to play with poor people anyway? They tend to smell, and this way they can spend their money on... Caroline, what do these people buy? Tattered hats? Beard dirt?

This is an ill-informed opinion, and it shows poor judgement in posting according to the rules of this site.

Please re-read the rules (there's a link in my signature) before posting anything else.

You are ill-informed and show poor judgement in not recognizing a Portal 2 reference. But I guess you're one of the unwashed masses, so I can't be too hard on you.

We're not all Portal 2 junkies. I've played the game to completion, and it still took me a second to get the reference. Keep it polite, or further action will be taken. - Lorek

Hmm... things are getting heated here. Here's a funny article to cool everyone off:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/1a11d074-61ec-11e0-88f7-00144feab49a.html#axzz1N2h97ENx

The funny parts:
'“If we don’t do a great job in the summer of recruiting the teenagers into the hobby, we really feel that into the next summer,” said Mr Wells.
He added that the recession only played a small part in shrinking sales this year, since the teenage boys who make up the bulk of the company’s customer base tend to fund their purchases through pocket money and part-time jobs – “and those seem to keep going”.'

'But the dividend yield of 5.9 per cent looks attractive for income seekers.'

withershadow wrote:

Alpharius wrote:

withershadow wrote:
Miniature wargames have never been a cheap hobby (though still pretty cheap as far as hobbies go), but who wants to play with poor people anyway? They tend to smell, and this way they can spend their money on... Caroline, what do these people buy? Tattered hats? Beard dirt?

This is an ill-informed opinion, and it shows poor judgement in posting according to the rules of this site.

Please re-read the rules (there's a link in my signature) before posting anything else.

You are ill-informed and show poor judgement in not recognizing a Portal 2 reference. But I guess you're one of the unwashed masses, so I can't be too hard on you.

Pretty ballsy, insulting a MOD like that...how about just saying something along the lines of "Portal 2 reference, sorry if it was offensive to people who didn't get it." Might get a few laughs. Insulting a MOD usually gets a BanHammer. And laughs from those of us who enjoy comedic human suffering

Absolutionis wrote:Hmm... things are getting heated here. Here's a funny article to cool everyone off:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/1a11d074-61ec-11e0-88f7-00144feab49a.html#axzz1N2h97ENx

The funny parts:
'“If we don’t do a great job in the summer of recruiting the teenagers into the hobby, we really feel that into the next summer,” said Mr Wells.
He added that the recession only played a small part in shrinking sales this year, since the teenage boys who make up the bulk of the company’s customer base tend to fund their purchases through pocket money and part-time jobs – “and those seem to keep going”.'

'But the dividend yield of 5.9 per cent looks attractive for income seekers.'

lol...this is pathetic...i bet Mark Wells would Gak himself if he realized how many teenage boys bought and will buy again this year on November 11th, Modern Warfare. The best selling video game of all time and GUESS WHAT? They didn't sneak it out quietly a week before the 11th!

Absolutionis wrote:Hmm... things are getting heated here. Here's a funny article to cool everyone off:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/1a11d074-61ec-11e0-88f7-00144feab49a.html#axzz1N2h97ENx

The funny parts:
'“If we don’t do a great job in the summer of recruiting the teenagers into the hobby, we really feel that into the next summer,” said Mr Wells.
He added that the recession only played a small part in shrinking sales this year, since the teenage boys who make up the bulk of the company’s customer base tend to fund their purchases through pocket money and part-time jobs – “and those seem to keep going”.'

'But the dividend yield of 5.9 per cent looks attractive for income seekers.'

I see you just posted this on facebook as well lol.


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Why talk to a MOD differently than he would any other user. if its too offensive it will be removed anyway.

taylor048 wrote:I see you just posted this on facebook as well lol.

Shh! Don't tell anyone my secret identity.

sarcastro01 wrote:I'm amused by this thread and the reaction from the community in general.

GW makes a decision a lot of folks don't like (understandable.) The masses take to the electronic streets of Facebook, pitchforks and torches in hand prepared to give the evil empire what for, somehow thinking their actions will have some sort of impact. The lord of the castle comes forward and says "this is how it is, sorry." and goes back to his castle. The masses, somehow stunned at the response now stand in the streets trying to figure out what to do next being as their rage has yet to be sated.

To those promising to rage quit - I disbelieve. I've worked in sales long enough to know that even when there are other outlets for you and you're dissatisfied, 99% of you will talk a big game and then never truly commit (by commit I mean sell of all your stuff and never play another game or even post about GW in the future) Yeah, you might not buy product for a while. You may even quit the game for a few years. In the end though, you'll be back. Why? Because in the end it is still a quality product, the games are fun and quite simply, there's no guarantee the company you flock to for a new outlet in gaming won't at some point do something similar with their pricing or policies.

For those that think the response from GW is an outright lie or at the very least just something to appease the masses - what did you expect? What exactly did you want to hear? If the response had directly addressed some of your other concerns, would your reaction be any different? If they had just come out and said "You are sheep. You will continue to buy product and support us and we know it so have a nice day."(which is exactly what some folks think the letter said anyway) would that change your opinion? Probably not.

Yeeees... as anyone familiar with GW's financial knows, their sales figures have been on an ever-increasing curve, where, like a roach motel, once you are in you never stop buying. Nope, no long term downward trend in sales at all.

Incomechat.

There was a bit of manufactured furore here recently when the Government decided to restrict the growth of welfare payments to people earning over $150,000/year. The Opposition took up the cry of "class warfare!" which was duly repeated via the usual shock jocks and news sources. It lasted for all of 3 days after people realised they don't make anywhere near that much. In fact, only 1.5% of taxpayers earn this amount or higher.

I bring this up because it has led to a nice piece of analysis of just how much people in this country actually earn.

We have a very obvious two-speed economy in Australia right now. Up the top end is the mining industry, who (while they do have a considerable rate of turnover these days) are busy digging up as much as they can and shovelling it into the insatiable furnace that is China. We are in the midst of a resources boom that has helped prop up the national economy and contributed hugely to growth. Also in the top end are tradesmen, who are working through a 10 year long housing bubble and a huge skills shortage, and the usual line up of CEOs.

Towards the bottom end is everyone else. The rest of the economy was slugged hard by the GFC and while Federal stimulus spending and lending guarantees staved off the worst, it's not all pretty. Retail in particular has had a hard time, even with stimulus handouts, and a spate of natural disasters has piled on even more bad news.

Because of this skewed economy using the average wage is a poor indicator of what people are actually earning. The top end of town artificially inflates the number as more and more people see their wages slump into lower, already accounted for brackets.

The blog that I linked shows the average weekly ordinary time earnings for full time adults to be just north of $66,000/year, but this mean figure is skewed by our two tier economy. Looking at tax statistics from 2010, he concludes that the median figure for full time workers is just under $55,000/year. This however excludes part time workers and the ever growing number of casual and underemployed workers. Once these people are included, the figure drops to just over $44,000/year. This means half of the Australian workforce earns under $44,000/year, which at current exchange rates is just under 29,000 pounds a year. A far cry from the $66,000 average.

Just something to think on.

Sorry if it has already been stated, but this, in a lot of ways, will just push people into alternative shopping (such as eBay)...not necessarily to GW stores.

Regarding the geography lesson, I'm in Ipswich, Qld, and have a GW store 45 minutes away...

BUT WHY GO THERE? (And NO WAY will I deal with GW mail order ever again...)

Reason is...eBay.

Grey Knights Army - 1 x Dreadknight, 10 x GK Terminators, 20 x GK Marines (7 box sets in total.)

Ebay - AU$251 including postage (and I can afford to wait 2 weeks for it to arrive...)

GW - AU$454

I'm on above average wage in Australia - $78000 per year, and my wife works, but I can't afford to pass up on that saving.

Sorry GW store, and Mr. Ellis...

Padre^.

EDIT...Oh, and I, and probably a few readers,didn't get the "Portal" or whatever reference...just thought the post was in poor taste. And I don't thnk Alpharius deserved that response for doing his job.

Rymafyr wrote:I would never recommend anyone getting into 40k at this point.

I've found that I don't have to really do that, the price is enough to scare them away. You don't even really need to go into detail about how GW are a big bag of dicks with nothing but hate and contempt for their "followers".

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/business-news/games-workshop-sales-decline-after-staff-numbers-slashed-15064435.html Tis sounds a bit different to everything else ive been hearing.

AMERICA!
Anyway everyone don't get so grim dark. Read the CDC Zombie invasion plan or..... Sleep

timetowaste85 wrote:

withershadow wrote:

Alpharius wrote:

withershadow wrote:
Miniature wargames have never been a cheap hobby (though still pretty cheap as far as hobbies go), but who wants to play with poor people anyway? They tend to smell, and this way they can spend their money on... Caroline, what do these people buy? Tattered hats? Beard dirt?

This is an ill-informed opinion, and it shows poor judgement in posting according to the rules of this site.

Please re-read the rules (there's a link in my signature) before posting anything else.

You are ill-informed and show poor judgement in not recognizing a Portal 2 reference. But I guess you're one of the unwashed masses, so I can't be too hard on you.

Pretty ballsy, insulting a MOD like that...how about just saying something along the lines of "Portal 2 reference, sorry if it was offensive to people who didn't get it." Might get a few laughs. Insulting a MOD usually gets a BanHammer. And laughs from those of us who enjoy comedic human suffering

Oh, do come on. Alpharius is clearly playing along... unless the suggestion is that he's special enough to seriously consider the suggestion that the poor buy "beard dirt"? I do have a vision of a monocle dropping off at the reading of Swift's "A Modest Proposal" though...

It's really hard to watch a "one man show" try to answer the phone, teach an academy, sell product, answer questions to browsers and people playing games, and keep an eye on the store at the same time. Of course profits dropped some after throwing so many employees under the bus - that's what happens.

ShumaGorath wrote:Why is everything twice as expensive in australia? I can't really think of a non commodity that isn't at least 50% more (accounting for exchange) there relative to the US.

I just don't know man. It's as if businesses have to overcome immense tax and welfare plans to a country of only 22 million with a very spread population on a continent that is very expensive to mass deliver too because all it has is that same 22 million people. But really, why would GW charge in line with other luxury items in the AU territories when they could sell at a loss to support the hobby that they selflessly dedicate themselves too?

Hm this is quite stupid i cant wait till they stop things here in canada :\

Kilkrazy wrote:I can see that with the exception of the Highlands and Islands, and north Wales, probably anyone in the British Isles is within one or two hours reach of a shop, but it's not like they are on every street corner.

It's 45 minutes for me to get to my nearest GW shop by car or public transport. I live in west London.

I just did a quick search on the GW site. There are five GW shops in Sydney. There are only 10 GW shops in London.

There are actually 11 GW stores in Sydney : Castle Hill , Parramatta , Hornsby , Liverpool , Chatswood , North Sydney , Hurstville , Sydney , Bondi , Miranda and Macarthur . Back in the 80s there were only Indies and one - The Tin Soldier , had 5 stores . They were slowly wittled out of the market and just this week have gone into recievership .

timetowaste85 wrote:Insulting a MOD usually gets a BanHammer.

Now who's being fallacious?

Buzzsaw wrote:

Oh, do come on. Alpharius is clearly playing along... unless the suggestion is that he's special enough to seriously consider the suggestion that the poor buy "beard dirt"? I do have a vision of a monocle dropping off at the reading of Swift's "A Modest Proposal" though...

No idea what portal who is but, irrespective of my gross ignorance and stupidity (how could I possibly fail to get the reference) the post was unnecessary and insulting.
I leave it to Alpharius to say whether he is just playing along.

adamantium|wang wrote:Incomechat.

There was a bit of manufactured furore here recently when the Government decided to restrict the growth of welfare payments to people earning over $150,000/year. The Opposition took up the cry of "class warfare!" which was duly repeated via the usual shock jocks and news sources. It lasted for all of 3 days after people realised they don't make anywhere near that much. In fact, only 1.5% of taxpayers earn this amount or higher.

I bring this up because it has led to a nice piece of analysis of just how much people in this country actually earn.

We have a very obvious two-speed economy in Australia right now. Up the top end is the mining industry, who (while they do have a considerable rate of turnover these days) are busy digging up as much as they can and shovelling it into the insatiable furnace that is China. We are in the midst of a resources boom that has helped prop up the national economy and contributed hugely to growth. Also in the top end are tradesmen, who are working through a 10 year long housing bubble and a huge skills shortage, and the usual line up of CEOs.

Towards the bottom end is everyone else. The rest of the economy was slugged hard by the GFC and while Federal stimulus spending and lending guarantees staved off the worst, it's not all pretty. Retail in particular has had a hard time, even with stimulus handouts, and a spate of natural disasters has piled on even more bad news.

Because of this skewed economy using the average wage is a poor indicator of what people are actually earning. The top end of town artificially inflates the number as more and more people see their wages slump into lower, already accounted for brackets.

The blog that I linked shows the average weekly ordinary time earnings for full time adults to be just north of $66,000/year, but this mean figure is skewed by our two tier economy. Looking at tax statistics from 2010, he concludes that the median figure for full time workers is just under $55,000/year. This however excludes part time workers and the ever growing number of casual and underemployed workers. Once these people are included, the figure drops to just over $44,000/year. This means half of the Australian workforce earns under $44,000/year, which at current exchange rates is just under 29,000 pounds a year. A far cry from the $66,000 average.

Just something to think on.

I'm legitimately curious, what sort of social welfare benefits were the $150K+ earners receiving and complaining about losing?