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AgeOfEgos wrote:Forgeworld was at Adepticon. The guy running the register was the guy that did the artwork for the Badab War

Really nice guys, especially for the long days they endured (busy from open to close with a constant line)

Forge World are still the hardcore hobbyists that we wish GW had not stopped being.

Frazzled wrote:

Le Grognard wrote:

infinite_array wrote:GW doesn't show up in the U.S. either. Nothing at Gencon or Adepticon, perhaps the best two places they could go to garner some positive attention.

If you ever worked a Gen Con and had to put up with the constant yelling from their area every 20 minutes, them not showing up anymore was a blessing.

Que?

Guess he is talking about the "WAAAAAAAAGH!" meme by GW booths.

Kilkrazy wrote:

AgeOfEgos wrote:Forgeworld was at Adepticon. The guy running the register was the guy that did the artwork for the Badab War

Really nice guys, especially for the long days they endured (busy from open to close with a constant line)

Forge World are still the hardcore hobbyists that we wish GW had not stopped being.

Sad but true - good point!

Of course, it is rather obvious who controls the setting of price points though!

The "Waaagh" calls is one of the few things I'm Not going to miss about GW moving GamesDay to Chicago...

Kilkrazy wrote:

AgeOfEgos wrote:Forgeworld was at Adepticon. The guy running the register was the guy that did the artwork for the Badab War

Really nice guys, especially for the long days they endured (busy from open to close with a constant line)

Forge World are still the hardcore hobbyists that we wish GW had not stopped being.

Oh no doubt. When I was bullshitting with them about the game---you could tell they actually play and not just sell the stuff. They haven't become "The Man ™" (yet).

So reading through this whole discussion, I have wondered if GWs increasing costs can be compared to any other "hobby" over time.

I started skateboarding and playing Games Workshop games at around the same time, 2003, so it seemed like a fair comparison.
At the time, a pro skateboard deck cost 80-90$CDN, a set of trucks around 50-60$ and wheels around 30-40$.
Now in 2011, all of those objects still cost relatively the same amount even with online retailers, inflation, economic changes, cost of oil, using new metals, plastics or wood used in the development of these products.

Games workshop on the otherhand has seen drastic price increases practically every year in everything from brushes, paints, and old models with old molds which haven't changed in almost a decade. It seems that every time i walk into my Hobby Store every few months, I'm amazed at how everything has magically risen a few bucks in prices.

How GW can justify "saving the hobby" by banning international sales online is beyond me. If Wayland can ship to Australia or Canada at these lowered prices and still make a profit, what is preventing GW from shipping to their stores at this same price. Yes, maybe at a 15% discount instead of 30%, but from what II hear, you lads in OZ are getting royally demolished by this ridiculous cashgrab, with price gouging of far over 30%.

I think this price increase and attempt to control the market rather than use business sense to combat competition might be the last straw for me sadly.

Maybe I'll take up Solitaire.
Or Crazy 8s... any takers?

Drugs have become more expensive as a hobby, does that count?

And ammo prices have gone way up. I've forgotten the last time I left the range not having just turned $150 into noise and gunsmoke.

Frazzled wrote:

Le Grognard wrote:
If you ever worked a Gen Con and had to put up with the constant yelling from their area every 20 minutes, them not showing up anymore was a blessing.

Que?

Every 20 minutes, some neckbeard idiot would shout WAAAAGH!! and all the other lemmings would join in.

withershadow wrote:Drugs have become more expensive as a hobby, does that count?

Whatever man---water and some strong lights makes for cheap drugs!

Ascalam wrote:Yet slightly unsettling at the same time..

Japanese girls have a kind of kid-sister quality to me that makes them a bit unnerving

Don't know what Japanese girls you tend to look at, but the ones I tend to look at sure don't.

Not naming names.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

AgeOfEgos wrote:

withershadow wrote:Drugs have become more expensive as a hobby, does that count?

Whatever man---water and some strong lights makes for cheap drugs!

So do a few boxes of Claritin if you know what you're doing.

AgeOfEgos wrote:

withershadow wrote:Drugs have become more expensive as a hobby, does that count?

Whatever man---water and some strong lights makes for cheap drugs!

Eat things found in the forest?
Probably what GW's been doing to justify their business model.

Being a musician and a 40k player...my wallet is pretty much always empty ):

wish GW stayed the old prices when i didnt have to sell a kidney for some termies *sighs* oh well

You could always try busking or be a GW Troubadour singing ballads to celebrate a victory/mourn a loss.

Am sure there would be a ready market for such. More of a Fantasy thing maybe.

Well, I'm out. I've been on the fringes from years, occasionally dipping back into the hobby and spending a few thousand bucks, then out then in etc.

I'll make one last order from Maelstrom for things I haven't bought but would really like to have (for painting), then I'm done.

I've got more than enough figures to play most any 40k army in some form until I expire, especially smaller forces. New rulebooks will always be available online. Both from booksellers and more ...digital methods.

I don't play anything enough these days to start again with Warmachine, etc. I've got a few Warzone armies here that have been pretty inert for more than the past decade. Fun at the time, but not doing all that again.

Ah well, it's been a long ride, and it's been fun.

Everything is expensive in Aussie land.
When I visited Perth it was like $22 AUS for a paperback book, a stack of pan-cakes at a dinner was $9 AUS and well, there are other examples. Maybe that’s just Perth. I don’t know. But my experience in the land down under was that everything there was more expensive, by a lot, then things in other countries.

At any-rate, while I did not read the entire thread, so I am not sure if this has been said, what I got from it was this:
Buying stuff online doesn’t support the local hobby. Buying stuff from your FLGS does. It’s one of the reasons Games Workshop doesn’t like online retailers. If you buy something from Biffy’s online store of fun, or Teds Friendly Local Game Store, Games Workshop gets the exact same amount of money. Except Biffy doesn’t do anything to bring new people into the hobby, has low operating costs, and does have a space for you to play or anything like that. Ted does. A lot of us have a few friends who play, and might play at a mate’s house or the like. But many of us, myself included, got into this Hobby because we saw these bad ass toys at a comic book store or even GW store when we were young, and wanted to play with them or collect them or whatever. That’s how most people get into it.
Buying Online slowly kills the hobby.

Is it evil or anything, no.

Does it hurt to make some buys online? Nope. I buy lots of stuff online.

But if you enjoy this hobby, then you should buy locally. I am not saying support gakky stores if that’s all you have in your area, but buy where you play, and so forth. Bits and the like are better to get online, sure, but if you buy everything online how can you expect the community where you live to survive, be it in aussie land or New York?

That’s what GW wants you to do, from what I read in this letter. They don’t want you buying online because then you don’t support the local gaming community. Games Workshop gets basically the same amount of money no matter WHERE you buy from. Why did they do this then? Likely because their stores, and FLGS’s, have operating costs. So if people are not going to them in Aussie land or South America or where ever, because they buy everything on line or they are going to them to play but not buying their mini’s there, then those stores will wither and die. And eventually the hobby in that area will slowly die out too because there will be fewer and fewer places to get into the hobby or to meet people to play with.

GW isn’t some evil corporation out to screw you. They are some toy makers who also write books on just how you should play with their over-priced toys, and they want to make sure the community for these toys is successful. It’s easy to hate a company that is relatively large and faceless, because it’s popular, because you wish it was cheaper, or for any number of reasons. Still, there can be no denying that NO other company puts out as many updates and new kits, NO other miniatures company has stores you can play in, learn the basics of playing in or meet new friends to play with in. Games Workshop, like them or hate them, has really built this community.

Just my 2 cents.

-Tabitha.

ColeFournier wrote:

AgeOfEgos wrote:

withershadow wrote:Drugs have become more expensive as a hobby, does that count?

Whatever man---water and some strong lights makes for cheap drugs!

Eat things found in the forest?
Probably what GW's been doing to justify their business model.

They roll poison mushrooms for mysterious forests every single time!

Tabitha wrote:Everything is expensive in Aussie land.
When I visited Perth it was like $22 AUS for a paperback book, a stack of pan-cakes at a dinner was $9 AUS and well, there are other examples. Maybe that’s just Perth. I don’t know. But my experience in the land down under was that everything there was more expensive, by a lot, then things in other countries.

At any-rate, while I did not read the entire thread, so I am not sure if this has been said, what I got from it was this:
Buying stuff online doesn’t support the local hobby. Buying stuff from your FLGS does. It’s one of the reasons Games Workshop doesn’t like online retailers. If you buy something from Biffy’s online store of fun, or Teds Friendly Local Game Store, Games Workshop gets the exact same amount of money. Except Biffy doesn’t do anything to bring new people into the hobby, has low operating costs, and does have a space for you to play or anything like that. Ted does. A lot of us have a few friends who play, and might play at a mate’s house or the like. But many of us, myself included, got into this Hobby because we saw these bad ass toys at a comic book store or even GW store when we were young, and wanted to play with them or collect them or whatever. That’s how most people get into it.
Buying Online slowly kills the hobby.

Is it evil or anything, no.

Does it hurt to make some buys online? Nope. I buy lots of stuff online.

But if you enjoy this hobby, then you should buy locally. I am not saying support gakky stores if that’s all you have in your area, but buy where you play, and so forth. Bits and the like are better to get online, sure, but if you buy everything online how can you expect the community where you live to survive, be it in aussie land or New York?

That’s what GW wants you to do, from what I read in this letter. They don’t want you buying online because then you don’t support the local gaming community. Games Workshop gets basically the same amount of money no matter WHERE you buy from. Why did they do this then? Likely because their stores, and FLGS’s, have operating costs. So if people are not going to them in Aussie land or South America or where ever, because they buy everything on line or they are going to them to play but not buying their mini’s there, then those stores will wither and die. And eventually the hobby in that area will slowly die out too because there will be fewer and fewer places to get into the hobby or to meet people to play with.

GW isn’t some evil corporation out to screw you. They are some toy makers who also write books on just how you should play with their over-priced toys, and they want to make sure the community for these toys is successful. It’s easy to hate a company that is relatively large and faceless, because it’s popular, because you wish it was cheaper, or for any number of reasons. Still, there can be no denying that NO other company puts out as many updates and new kits, NO other miniatures company has stores you can play in, learn the basics of playing in or meet new friends to play with in. Games Workshop, like them or hate them, has really built this community.

Just my 2 cents.

-Tabitha.

It's not the customers fault games workshop can't entice them to buy from their stores. Welcome to capitalism and free market enterprise

If you remember perth at all, there is no 'FLGS'. There are 3 GW stores, each with 2-3 4x4 demo tables. There is one independent wargames retailer (and a bunch of chain stores that sell mostly puzzles and mainstream board games)

*IF* I knew what this 'FLGS' craze was, I might buy some stuff from them. I dunno what the situation is like over east, but those things just don't exist here. Nearly all experienced gamers play at home or at clubs.

Growing the hobby. With eBooks.

So log in via a proxy in europe or similar, and download from there (or get a penpal to buy it for you and share it over IM

You're right though. GW has been steadily getting more demented these last few years..

H.B.M.C. wrote:Growing the hobby. With eBooks.

That is Awesome, you know, in a bad way... But still, Awesome.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Growing the hobby. With eBooks.

Because Australian median wage earners make less than CEOs in America, which means bandwidth will suffer inflation as it crosses under Australian water, which may have a higher salinity than Mr. Wells pool water---which makes the delivery of Ebooks to Australian customers a much higher cost endeavor. You should feel lucky, they're growing your economy!

Trasvi wrote:
If you remember perth at all, there is no 'FLGS'. There are 3 GW stores, each with 2-3 4x4 demo tables. There is one independent wargames retailer (and a bunch of chain stores that sell mostly puzzles and mainstream board games)

*IF* I knew what this 'FLGS' craze was, I might buy some stuff from them. I dunno what the situation is like over east, but those things just don't exist here. Nearly all experienced gamers play at home or at clubs.

Huh? You serious? I moved to Perth two and a half years ago. Barely did my feet hit the tarmac and I was told where the FLGS in the CBD is. In London Court. Every Perth gamer knows where it is, right? And there's a heap of clubs. There's a forum called WA Gamer or something should be able to find out more.

Ooohh...unless you think FLGS is the name of a chain of stores rather than any friendly shop that sells exclusively gaming stuff.

AgeOfEgos wrote:Because Australian median wage earners make less than CEOs in America, which means bandwidth will suffer inflation as it crosses under Australian water, which may have a higher salinity than Mr. Wells pool water---which makes the delivery of Ebooks to Australian customers a much higher cost endeavor. You should feel lucky, they're growing your economy!

Well you've convinced me. I now consider myself a White Knight-ing GW Apologist.

Thanks Egos!

H.B.M.C. wrote:

AgeOfEgos wrote:Because Australian median wage earners make less than CEOs in America, which means bandwidth will suffer inflation as it crosses under Australian water, which may have a higher salinity than Mr. Wells pool water---which makes the delivery of Ebooks to Australian customers a much higher cost endeavor. You should feel lucky, they're growing your economy!

Well you've convinced me. I now consider myself a White Knight-ing GW Apologist.

Thanks Egos!

You're better than Ouze. He's disgustingly apologetic for GW.

Makes me sick.

Just drink the special kool-aid and it'll all make sense!

Regarding increasing hobby costs:

Magic: The Gathering booster packs prices went from 3.29 USD (2005) to 3.95 USD (2011).

Which isn't drastic at all (not to mention that dollar went down in these years, so foreign players probably didn't experience any change in price for over a decade).

Ofcourse, competetive MTG is expensive as gak, but that doesn't stop you from playing on budget or casually.

scipio.au wrote:Well, I'm out. I've been on the fringes from years, occasionally dipping back into the hobby and spending a few thousand bucks, then out then in etc.

What the feth were you buying? Even a full 2000 point list from a horde army wouldn't run much more than $1000au bought locally. I should know, I've bee building a horde Tyranid army all bought locally. My army is at just about 1000 points, and I haven't spent more than $500au. That's including some stuff bought from Forgeworld (though not including my Hierophant which doesn't quite count until Apocalypse).

Building an army, bought locally, isn't that expensive. Sure, it's not as cheap as buying overseas, but as a hobby, it's cheap. When I consider the $12,000 I dropped on video games in the last 4 years (though that includes the systems - a PC, 2 PS3s, a PSP and a Wii), I'd have much preferred to only be interested in even just GW wargames in that time.

scipio.au wrote:
building a horde Tyranid army all bought locally. My army is at just about 1000 points, and I haven't spent more than $500au.
Building an army, bought locally, isn't that expensive. Sure, it's not as cheap as buying overseas, but as a hobby, it's cheap. When I consider the $12,000 I dropped on video games in the last 4 years (though that includes the systems - a PC, 2 PS3s, a PSP and a Wii), I'd have much preferred to only be interested in even just GW wargames in that time.

Wow. 500 AUD for 1k pts army? even 300 AUD would be pretty steep for a 1k army unless were talking all metal models.

That is the most polite way I can say that paying 500 for 1000 pt horde nid army is ridiculous.

True - but its a far cry from 'occasionally dipping into the hobby and spending thousands of dollars'. That's what I was pointing out. Buying locally is expensive, thousands of dollars is still ridiculous unless you're putting together multiple full armies every time you 'dip' into the hobby. At the point, complaining about price is stupid, and it's not really 'dipping into the hobby'.

Trasvi wrote:If you remember perth at all, there is no 'FLGS'. There are 3 GW stores, each with 2-3 4x4 demo tables. There is one independent wargames retailer (and a bunch of chain stores that sell mostly puzzles and mainstream board games)

*IF* I knew what this 'FLGS' craze was, I might buy some stuff from them. I dunno what the situation is like over east, but those things just don't exist here. Nearly all experienced gamers play at home or at clubs.

I only went to the Games Workshop in the mall in perth when I was there. I was there during the planet strike release (day of actually). I believe I bought some sentinals. There were alot of young kids, but the staff was very friendly, and even though the store was small that mall is awesome, so its a great location. Lots of great eatting just past the train station to the north of it too, a very good area. I would rather have a small nice GW store in a good location then a big sprawling LGS in some gakky area with a disgruntled and smelly owner any day. If I lived in Perth I think I wouldnt have any problem using the GW in the mall as my gaming store.

-Tabitha