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-Loki- wrote:

5th editions rules start on page 2, and continue to 95. So 93 pages. This covers every single rule for playing a game. Including the scenarios.

Good show old boy!

Lanrak wrote:Hi Kaldor.
You comments confuse me.
Could you explain how being honest about a games strenghts and weakness with new players is 'bullsquirt'.
And that making potential gamers aware of the game systems flaws is a bad idea?

Could you expand your argument , and let me understand your motives.And can you explain why you feel I am grossly mis informed?

So I have a change of defending myself from the acusation of being 'TFG'.

Just let it go Lanrak.

Dakka now needs to have a weekly thread for all the GW fanboys to congregate into, sing its praises (real or like in this case, imaginary) and balance all the negative threads that pop up. And this week it seems to be this thread...

Because god forbid people who like 40k want to post about 40k on a forum largely relating to 40k? The very presumptuousness of the idea!

Charles Rampant wrote:Because god forbid people who like 40k want to post about 40k on a forum largely relating to 40k? The very presumptuousness of the idea!

Not at all presumptuous, I just find it funny that the fanboys have to resort to go around patting each other on the back with, let us say, less than fully honest arguments, to try and make 40k look good...

And misses the point.

There is liking something, then there is blindly following something. The same goes the opposite way, if we had a balance of the two we'd have a perfectly reasonable weekly thread and likely the streets would be paved with gold and various gems.

PhantomViper wrote:

Charles Rampant wrote:Because god forbid people who like 40k want to post about 40k on a forum largely relating to 40k? The very presumptuousness of the idea!

Not at all presumptuous, I just find it funny that the fanboys have to resort to go around patting each other on the back with, let us say, less than fully honest arguments, to try and make 40k look good...

???


Seriously?

Couldn't care less what other people play, its a free country. I stick with GW games simply because I have 20 years of investment into their rules, models and lore, I don't really see the need to switch games systems because there's a more fashionable one out there. IF you like orange juice, and you know you like orange juice, why switch to pineapple?

PhantomViper wrote:
Not at all presumptuous, I just find it funny that the fanboys have to resort to go around patting each other on the back with, let us say, less than fully honest arguments, to try and make 40k look good...

Less than honest?

He pointed out that the rules arent that long because they only take up 93 pages (they do)

How is that less than honest?

I wasnt even going to reply to you (as always) but I tire of you being rude to people.

Its perfectly acceptable to hate GW, I dont have an issue with anyone that does. But what I find funny is how you feel the need to tell us all about it every single day, endlessly. Seriously, Its embarrassing, aren't you ashamed of yourself? I would be cringing with embarrassment just having the gall to sit and type half the things that you spam these forums with. Personally attacking people, using ad hominem attacks on people, simply because they happen to enjoy a hobby that you don't? Its fething shameful behaviour.

Humans are irascible creatures.. they hate loads of things, I understand that, but Ill give you an example.

Say I hate a musician.. who do I hate? I hate that Ed Sheeran bloke he will do. So what do I and 99% of other people do that feel the same? We ignore Ed Sheeran. Im aware that he has many fans, so I let them get to it. Thats how people do things. But you? You are basically trolling people on an epic level. Its like me purposely going out and joining Ed Sheerans facebook page, Twitter feed, Fan Club and gym. And then buying a house next door to him, with the express purpose of following him around, both in real life and virtually, and mocking him all day long.

Do you see me on Ed's facebook page calling all his fans names? Do you see me following him on Twitter loling at all his tweets and calling him a noob?

No. And here is the best bit.... you call people like me a Troll!

In the vain hope, that nobody notices that you are spending hours each day trolling a PLC, every shareholder, and several million people all at once.

Its laugh out loud funny.

mattyrm wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:
Not at all presumptuous, I just find it funny that the fanboys have to resort to go around patting each other on the back with, let us say, less than fully honest arguments, to try and make 40k look good...

Less than honest?

He pointed out that the rules arent that long because they only take up 93 pages (they do)

How is that less than honest?

I wasnt even going to reply to you (as always) but I tire of you being rude to people.

Its perfectly acceptable to hate GW, I dont have an issue with anyone that does. But what I find funny is how you feel the need to tell us all about it every single day, endlessly. Seriously, Its embarrassing, aren't you ashamed of yourself? I would be cringing with embarrassment just having the gall to sit and type half the things that you spam these forums with. Personally attacking people, using ad hominem attacks on people, simply because they happen to enjoy a hobby that you don't? Its fething shameful behaviour.

Humans are irascible creatures.. they hate loads of things, I understand that, but Ill give you an example.

Say I hate a musician.. who do I hate? I hate that Ed Sheeran bloke he will do. So what do I and 99% of other people do that feel the same? We ignore Ed Sheeran. Im aware that he has many fans, so I let them get to it. Thats how people do things. But you? You are basically trolling people on an epic level. Its like me purposely going out and joining Ed Sheerans facebook page, Twitter feed, Fan Club and gym. And then buying a house next door to him, with the express purpose of following him around, both in real life and virtually, and mocking him all day long.

Do you see me on Ed's facebook page calling all his fans names? Do you see me following him on Twitter loling at all his tweets and calling him a noob?

No. And here is the best bit.... you call people like me a Troll!

In the vain hope, that nobody notices that you are spending hours each day trolling a PLC, every shareholder, and several million people all at once.

Its laugh out loud funny.

Well said! Thats exactly how i feel about it.

Skippy wrote:

mattyrm wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:
Not at all presumptuous, I just find it funny that the fanboys have to resort to go around patting each other on the back with, let us say, less than fully honest arguments, to try and make 40k look good...

Well said! Thats exactly how i feel about it.

What? You are going to have to expand on that since I have mattyrm blocked so I don't have to read any of his inanities, I don't actually know what you are agreeing with...

To Paraphrase, he told you to shut up and stop talking because he thinks you're embarrassing yourself and the human race as a whole.

His words, not mine.

Chowderhead wrote:To Paraphrase, he told you to shut up and stop talking because he think's you're a despicable person and you're embarrassing yourself.

His words, not mine.

You don't need to paraphrase. PhantomViper saw what Mattyrm wrote, as ignoring someone does not make it so that you cannot see their posts when they are quoted--nor does it make it so that you cannot see their posts in the Thread Preview.

At this point, he's just fishing for attention so it's best to just place him on Ignore and carry about your day.

Ah. Thanks for the advice, Kan. I was ready to get stuck in with a Flame War before you showed up.

Thanks for saving me from another ban, you monster of a human being.

mattyrm wrote: Less than honest?

He pointed out that the rules arent that long because they only take up 93 pages (they do)

How is that less than honest?

If all the rules are contained within those 93 pages then, only using those 93 pages, explain to me how IG orders work. Or DE pain tokens. Or SW Sagas. Or Acts of Faith. Etc.

Or how to play a Planetstrike game. Or Spearhead.

Hint: Not all the rules required to play the game are within the core book. Even if just playing a game between two vanilla SM armies, you'll need Codex: Space Marines on top (though don't ask me how many pages of rules are within that tome, as I don't own a copy of the current edition).

The comparison which hits home here is Epic Armageddon, as described by infinite_array on page 5 of this thread:

infinite_array wrote:Well, let's look at another of GW's wargames - Epic Armageddon.

EA can be argued to be a more complex wargame than 40k (and heavens forbid we get into a discussion comparing EA to E40k or even older versions). If we take a look at the EA Compendium v2, we see that the entire ruleset - from what you need to play to tournament gaming - is 43 pages. That includes extra rules like spacecraft, drop landings, siege engines, and aircraft. The next 96 pages are the entirety of the game's army lists, from Space Marines to Squats.

So, EA manages to put into 138 pages what 40k cannot put into hundreds of pages in various rulebooks and codices.

The last line is, I suspect, the key one in this debate.

WM and 40k are different games and people just need to accept it.

I play multiple armies so the fact an army can go "unsupported" for years is okay with me. If you stick to one army I can see how that would bother you, but if you like to paint and convert models there's always the next army (or the next 4 armies) you want to do.

I also disagree with how people characterize GW not "supporting" their armies. When there's an army and not every model has been made for it, like Tyranids, I'd agree that it isn't being supported. If they release an army and all of its models exist and they don't update it for a few years than I wouldn't call that being "unsupported". They're just done with that army for that cycle. Get over it.

Honestly, I prefer GW's business model over PP's. PP will just release new figures for your army that kind of do what previous models already did, but the new ones will do it better or cheaper. Their idea of "support" is to put people on treadmills.

I'd be okay with PP's business model but the quality of their sculpts is really bad. There's a few gems here and there, but the line has gotten worse over years and it's starting to look like a range of Chronopia and Warzone rejects.

I don't think WM / H plays to the strengths of the system. It's a good skirmish / small army game. The system breaks down at 50 points (unless you like rolling 2d6 dozens of times every turn) and the game gets to be as expensive as 40k and more expensive than most Fantasy armies at 50 points.

Honestly, it comes down to either being okay that GW is constantly changing (except for times when you want them to change, in which case it'll take a decade) and that keeping up to date is part of what playing a GW game is all about. Or, you keep with a fairly static system like WM but have to keep adding new units to your armies because they will likely make your current units obsolete.

As for hating, yeah, it sucks. I would post about GW stuff on here more if it wasn't for people like HMBC. Some people here have created such a noxious attitude that it makes it impossible to be excited about anything, all because GW doesn't adhere to their very narrow beliefs of what they should be doing.

Please don't spam the forum. Thanks ~Manchu