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Magic gamers are worse than Warmachine gamers for me. Warmachine gamers have never tried to covnert me over because they know I don't like Steampunk stuff and I probably won't like the game.
Ooooo. I like them all. I like magic the least out of all the things I "like" though. A bit too hard core for me to get into easily. I would need 1k or so cards to have a chance I think. I did have a bad encounter with some magic players a long time ago where they threatened to tare out my spleen. I was young so I took it a bid literally I think.
I think that it's not the game that fosters douchebags. It's just... there's douchebags in every group, and most people associate the game/group with said douchebags. Same goes for religion, political parties, families, etc.
This is bad business. If you are at a FLGS then the owner, if he is a decent business owner (usually that is NOT the case) is going to be supportive of any and all business lines.
Talk to the owner about the static you are getting and have him tone the WM guys down. if he doesn't take your group where your custom is appreciated.
End of lesson.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
mattyrm wrote: Guy sounds like a proper bell-end. Have you seen how fething important games are are to some dweebs though?! Its hardly surprising behaviour.
I'd just call Leonidas out on his childish behaviour by being equally childish and verbally telling him so. feth all these notions of manners and gak if a stranger is waltzing over and giving you guys gak.
The guy sounds like a proper sad bastard. Why not just tell him this to his face? "If you hate 40k so much, don't play or collect it, ignore it. But don't waltz over here and embark on an epic whinging session because you sound like a little girl. I don't complain about Warmahordes or Malifaux or Heroquest or whatever the feth other people play these days, so why not give me the same courtesy? You like whiskey I like gin? Fairy nuff, but you don't see me going on epic multi award winning rants about how glorious and intense and flavoursome Gin is, and that if you prefer whisky you must have brain damage. I don't support Manchester United but I don't walk over to gangs of their fans in public places and tell them that they are a bunch of losers and they should sell all of their shirts and convert to fething Islam instead... Jesus! Get a fething life.. "
Or something..
What a tit.
Matty wins the thread. In my defense, in Texas, we'd just have a shootout in the middle of main street. Protip : Make sure all the horses are cleared out first.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/03/19 11:36:46
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
chromedog wrote:That one bolded term I got FROM one of those hallowed 40k and WM/H players you seem to speak so reverently about.
So that makes it "right" for you to use it here? Seriously? I have read people on CB's forums call Infinity "Rambo bs" and heard WHFB players call their game "Dicehammer". That doesn't mean I go around trumpeting those names of forums as a way to label those games.
Oh and by the by why does everyone want to hate on you? I've noticed it on the Finecast posts, but cannot be bothered, because I know that the HBMC tag team GW haters will jump on my swede for being objective, rational and avoiding extremism.
The internet is a funny beast, it seems to breed extremism or to be polarising, it's like the perceived lack of responsibility for what people are saying allows you to say more and more perverse and extreme parodies of your personal thoughts and beliefs. This seems to be permeating into the real world. I have noticed this with my 15 year old nephew, he has grown up with the Internet and takes a shallow pride in slagging random people off on youtube etc. He had a crack at me at Christmas, I put him in his place and he continued to bate me. I told him to wind his neck in, but because my brother doesn't discipline him and spoils him, he see's everyone as paper tiger he continued to do so all day. I slapped him sideways, when he wasn't expecting it and told him if he carries on like that in public or into adulthood he's likely to be dead by 20. I think you need to teach discipline to Kids, they will always push the button, and they need a bit of shock to put them in their place and remind them they aren't all that. Plus Teenagers tend to be quite extreme in their outlook and temperament it leads to some very strange things.
I've taught him a life lesson and now he's a lot more respectful and lot less cocky, I have potentially saved him from harm in the future too. This is a compassionate thing to do, I don't want my nephew to be a brat, or a bad member of society. I want him to be a stand up young man, who does the right thing, treats people with respect and doesn't bring shame on our family name. I love him, of course, but in an Avuncular manner and it gives me no pride that he needed correcting but it was necessary to change him, and these are his formative years. I do take a keen interest in him, his aspirations etc, so it's really about confronting problems not letting them fester.
Matt you've probably seen the same at Lympstone, when cocky young'un's need breaking down to size to learn some respect and wind their neck in. It's difficult in the Wargaming environment to find, well adjusted, mannered youngsters who play, maybe we set bad examples? But seriously i think the lack of discipline in school at home, and within the family unit doesn't help and the unbridled freedom of expression without recourse that the internet provides is detrimental to a cohesive society, individuals lack of self awareness and treating people respectfully.
This message was edited 12 times. Last update was at 2012/03/19 12:40:32
Collecting Forge World 30k????? If you prefix any Thread Subject line on 30k or Pre-heresy or Horus Heresy with [30K] we can convince LEGO and the Admin team to create a 30K mini board if we can show there is enough interest!
Matt. Put that in you Signature! Who needs the RN when you've got a Bootneck with a 50 cal.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/03/19 12:52:18
Collecting Forge World 30k????? If you prefix any Thread Subject line on 30k or Pre-heresy or Horus Heresy with [30K] we can convince LEGO and the Admin team to create a 30K mini board if we can show there is enough interest!
Oh and by the by why does everyone want to hate on you? I've noticed it on the Finecast posts, but cannot be bothered, because I know that the HBMC tag team GW haters will jump on my swede for being objective, rational and avoiding extremism.
Haha, alright mate, are you a matelot or in the corps?
Why does everyone hate on me? They don't really, but the thing is, there are maybe 5 or 6 really people on the board who seriously hate GW for no rational reason I can see, and when one of them pipes up during an argument with me, the other lot rock up almost straight away. Just watch me defend GW in even a minor way, and then that Portugese bloke and HBMC et all will rock up to the party and before you know it, its a cluster feth of rage and fury aimed at the bloke who dares to point out that he is merely impartial when it comes to GWs business practices.
I started getting more vocal when I saw how much they bully Kanluwen about it and its kinda gone from there because I like an argument. In short, its not everyone, its just 5 or 6 people who all rock up at once and stick together like I've just rammed my WMIK into the god damn Mahdi Army HQ.
Basically I struggle to understand it, and I apparently get called a "White Knight" (slang for a GW fanboy I believe) thanks to the fact that I am entirely impartial, only own maybe 3-4k worth of GW minis, and spend little time involved with the hobby. I didn't play for literally 12-15 years, as I did some wargaming aged 10-14, gave it up entirely when I was more interested in wine women and song, and then inexplicably picked it back up when I left the corps in 2009. I got a WD sub for Christmas, bought AOBR and the dwarves from BFSP and took it from there.
Read their posts however, and my genuine "I wont buy FC at the moment but surely it will get sorted out eventually" impartiality is read as "Matty is majority shareholder at GW and reports to Jervis at 0600hrs every second Monday to hum the national anthem with his balls in his mouth"
But yes, its all taken in good humour.
We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels.
mattyrm wrote:Read their posts however, and my genuine "I wont buy FC at the moment but surely it will get sorted out eventually" impartiality is read as "Matty is majority shareholder at GW and reports to Jervis at 0600hrs every second Monday to hum the national anthem with his balls in his mouth"
But yes, its all taken in good humour.
That's just stupid.
Jervis obviously reports to you instead
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/03/19 16:09:54
Mandorallen turned back toward the insolently sneering baron. 'My Lord,' The great knight said distantly, 'I find thy face apelike and thy form misshapen. Thy beard, moreover, is an offence against decency, resembling more closely the scabrous fur which doth decorate the hinder portion of a mongrel dog than a proper adornment for a human face. Is it possibly that thy mother, seized by some wild lechery, did dally at some time past with a randy goat?' - Mimbrate Knight Protector Mandorallen.
Excerpt from "Seeress of Kell", Book Five of The Malloreon series by David Eddings.
"You need not fear us, unless you are a dark heart, a vile one who preys on the innocent; I promise, you can’t hide forever in the empty darkness, for we will hunt you down like the animals you are, and pull you into the very bowels of hell." Iron - Within Temptation
It's the bloke doing the humming who has got the gak job, regardless of who is reporting where.
We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels.
I think you guys should take a look at it from another angle, many players see a FLGS and their group of potential opponents as a ZERO SUM number. So when they see someone who is potentially going to grow the group, if they don't choose *YOUR* system, then you are losing out. Who Cares if there are 100 people who wargame if only 10 of them play the gamesystem you choose to play.
When you are a tourney gamer who travels a lot, it doesn't really impact as bad because I go to where the players are so the idea of "the opponent pool will dry up and I will be left without anyone to play" is not a worry I have. But for many it is.
This is why I believe people in FLGS are so fanatical about their own game and are so quick to hate on any system they don't want people to play thinking that they can turn that PP person into a Malifex person or a 40k person. They take it way personal because anyone who is promoting a system they don't like is potentially taking players away from their gaming system and killing their game. Then the nastyness and angryface pop up.
A good club or store should promote all and say 'hey, we will do a full hardcore fantasy weekend but this weekend everyone is going to do Warmachine!' and sometimes provide a pool of figures so the poutyface can join in and have fun instead of sitting in the corner angry people are not playing his game.
My Models: Ork Army: Waaagh 'Az-ard - Chibi Dungeon RPG Models! - My Workblog! =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
RULE OF COOL: When converting models, there is only one rule: "The better your model looks, the less people will complain about it."
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
MODELING FOR ADVANTAGE TEST: rigeld2: "Easy test - are you willing to play the model as a stock one? No? MFA."
Of course, it's an us vs them mentality that usually causes it. Though there are usually a lot of reasons that contribute to it. The blind rage could just be blind rage, simply existing because the rest of the group also displays it.
nkelsch wrote:I think you guys should take a look at it from another angle, many players see a FLGS and their group of potential opponents as a ZERO SUM number. So when they see someone who is potentially going to grow the group, if they don't choose *YOUR* system, then you are losing out. Who Cares if there are 100 people who wargame if only 10 of them play the gamesystem you choose to play.
When you are a tourney gamer who travels a lot, it doesn't really impact as bad because I go to where the players are so the idea of "the opponent pool will dry up and I will be left without anyone to play" is not a worry I have. But for many it is.
This is why I believe people in FLGS are so fanatical about their own game and are so quick to hate on any system they don't want people to play thinking that they can turn that PP person into a Malifex person or a 40k person. They take it way personal because anyone who is promoting a system they don't like is potentially taking players away from their gaming system and killing their game. Then the nastyness and angryface pop up.
A good club or store should promote all and say 'hey, we will do a full hardcore fantasy weekend but this weekend everyone is going to do Warmachine!' and sometimes provide a pool of figures so the poutyface can join in and have fun instead of sitting in the corner angry people are not playing his game.
What is this? An actually thought out and reasonable post? You should know better by now mister, we don't need your kind around here!
Don't you know that Warmahordes players are all WAAC gamers? That Malifaux players are all M:tG rejects and that all Infinity players are all angry elitists? Only 40K players are fluffy bunnies open to all comers that welcome everyone with a smile and resolve every rare rules dispute with a graceful and gentlemanly roll of the dice!
I'm ex-RN, wrapped my tits in after SDSR. From PWO to Zero, so I could have had Command in a few years but sod it, not worth the stess as a Two & a Half.
I had notice HBMC is the main instigator I have pointed it out subtly on the "Finecast Shenanigans". He got very defensive and then asked my I was pointing fingers and drawing him in.
It's 5-6 leading a bunch of Sheep (the more impressionable junior members or the weak minded fops), It's exactly what I said earlier "It's easier to be extreme than to actually be moderate and think things through". I see it on the CNN coverage of the Presidential Primaries lots of scare mongering and hatred/ polarising nonsense between Ron Paul / Santorum etc.
The worlds a mess because everyone screams extremism all the time. "Gays are bad", "Darwin is evil", "Down with Islam", "kill the infidel", "Say no Healthcare", "No more hispanics", "Kill the jews", "Attack Iran", "Stop the NWO", "Conspiracy this... Conspiracy that", "Area 51". "Oil industry this" "Global warming that". I feel like that song by Billy Joel `we didn't start the fire`.
I hear all this sh*t and I despair because humanity has dragged it's self out from the mire, achieving enlightenment in science, technology and it all seems to be thrown away by an intellectually stunted and aggressive attitude to anyone or anything that has a different attitude or opinion.
Matt You with FSRT (Faslamabad), the ASRM, or the Commando's?
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2012/03/19 16:32:15
Collecting Forge World 30k????? If you prefix any Thread Subject line on 30k or Pre-heresy or Horus Heresy with [30K] we can convince LEGO and the Admin team to create a 30K mini board if we can show there is enough interest!
mwnciboo wrote:I'm ex-RN, wrapped my tits in after SDSR. From PWO to Zero, so I could have had Command in a few years but sod it, not worth the stess as a Two & a Half.
I see it on the CNN coverage of the Presidential Primaries lots of scare mongering and hatred/ polarising nonsense between Ron Paul / Santorum etc.
The worlds a mess because everyone screams extremism all the time. "Gays are bad", "Darwin is evil", "Down with Islam", "kill the infidel", "Say no Healthcare", "No more hispanics", "Kill the jews", "Attack Iran", "Stop the NWO", "Conspiracy this... Conspiracy that", "Area 51". "Oil industry this" "Global warming that". I feel like that song by Billy Joel `we didn't start the fire`.
I hear all this sh*t and I despair because humanity has dragged it's self out from the mire, achieving enlightenment in science, technology and it all seems to be thrown away by an intellectually stunted and aggressive attitude to anyone or anything that has a different attitude or opinion.
You with FSRT (Harry van Fas-bats) or the ASRM?
Woah.. that was like.. deep dude.
I don't get depressed about it, I like to copy The Comedian. Life is tough, you just gotta be tougher right!?
mwnciboo wrote:You with FSRT (Harry van Fas-bats) or the ASRM?
I was lucky enough to avoid Fazzers, I did two back to back drafts at in Guz with 42 commando RM at Bickers, a stint at CLRRM in Barnstable, and then a steady 4 year with 40 commando RM in Taunton.
Anyway, good to know you, lets not derail this thread any further.
We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels.
No. There was no assumption made or harmed in making the film.
NEW in the past few months of last year WAS bad. Lost a foothold on the gaming community at large, and there is a strong negative vibe spouting from the company that brought you Space Marines, Orksks, and grots.
That wasn't the players issues, that was "the company".
As to your rant in question, it wasn't anything you did, you just stepped into a situation of Love/Hate and didn't wear your proper gimp suit.
More often then not, your buddies with the snappy quips were probibly fanboys of the highest sort a few months to a year ago with the finepricegouge5theditionswizleshizle ( or whatever YOU want to call it.) and then you reopened old wounds by playing the game, and actually trying to have some fun with it.
Problem with your little hypothesis is that you forgot the fact that people were within six months to a year ago swamping stores to play, and then after the crazyness, ... they were not. You might think that it is unjustified, or either your ignorant to the fact that there was Space Marines in second, third, and Rogue trader, and even though you ignore that fact, that 5th Edition was OK, but the GW developers that were making the money were sidelined for beancounters that are interested in profitus maximus( ), and that your area still bears the pain of neglect from thier favorite game.
OR-
YOU are entirly justified, and that the guy was an irrelevent D bag that was just Peeing in your shoes to get a rise out of you.
Either way, If you and your buds are having a good time playing whatever game you are playing- then Heck with that crybaby. Play on, Player.
Just realize that there are a LOT of fuming players out here that do not share your enthusiasm, after being heavily involved in a game for numerous years, only to have armies arbitrarily squatted, game systems changed for the sake of change, and models, and whole product lines taken to piss on a regular basis ( even AFTER spending upwards of hundreds of man hours, dollars/ pounds/ franks/ Euros/ sheckles/ etc... and having it rubbed in your face without proper engagement from a holier then thou attitude from some Turkey who was the very one who "Made codexes more relevent with pictures of pictures of weapons, explanations of terms, and fluff added in to - help the new player"
and even though I am a bitter old grot with a shotgun, I still pick up a paintbrush or few to paint up some GW stuff now and then for the shizles and giggles of it. and still have my stuff in hopes that 6th Edition pulls off the oatmeal headphones.
and yeah, I am still a bit sore at GW for the douchery that they are capable of.
At Games Workshop, we believe that how you behave does matter. We believe this so strongly that we have written it down in the Games Workshop Book. There is a section in the book where we talk about the values we expect all staff to demonstrate in their working lives. These values are Lawyers, Guns and Money.
mattyrm wrote: I don't get depressed about it, I like to copy The Comedian. Life is tough, you just gotta be tougher right!?
No life is once, you better get busy enjoying it because at an given moment it may end, lost too many friends in accidents over the years, and helo crashes. This is why hating is pointless. One of the greatest quotes by one of the Greatest American Writers, Mark Twain sums it up nicely. "Anger is an acid that can do more harm to the vessel in which it is stored than to anything on which it is poured." I'm going love my Wife and my kids, tend to my Garden, look after my Bees, and screw everything else.
OT though the pool of players issue is a bit weird, we have about 60 people at my club and we play loads of different stuff and vary it through the year current just finished our 2 month 30k campaign. Necromunda was running parallel and people still played 40k (but with 20 of us playing as the Legions there were alot less opponents). I'm having 2 months off 40k to play FOW and prepare for upcoming Tournaments. Blood Bowl is a league that goes on all year, really we are big bunch of gamers who love to game. 40k is always the centre of everyone's collections but PP Malifaux etc is in the ascendancy mainly due to cost compared with GW, although FOW is steamrollering everything where I live. There are so many players that younger ones will be brought on the old guard and selling armies etc.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/03/19 17:31:54
Collecting Forge World 30k????? If you prefix any Thread Subject line on 30k or Pre-heresy or Horus Heresy with [30K] we can convince LEGO and the Admin team to create a 30K mini board if we can show there is enough interest!
mattyrm wrote:
I don't get depressed about it, I like to copy The Comedian. Life is tough, you just gotta be tougher right!?
No life is once, you better get busy enjoying it because at an given moment it may end, lost too many friends in accidents over the years, and helo crashes. This is why hating is pointless. One of the greatest quotes by one of the Greatest American Writers, Mark Twain sums it up nicely. "Anger is an acid that can do more harm to the vessel in which it is stored than to anything on which it is poured." I'm going love my Wife and my kids, tend to my Garden, look after my Bees, and screw everything else.
That IS a good quote. I like you have Bee's too.. what a fine hobby.
Arent I kinda subscribed to it though?
I mean, ok many arguments aside, my point is simply that there is no need to take GWs behaviour so personally. You can play the game on a shoestring and crack on with your life, there is no need for the hate part. Big companies want to turn a profit, why do you need to take it personally?
Case in point, many people own both, but there is a large group of people on either side of the Apple fence. Some people either love Apple or they are a windows user. I'm a PC man, I dislike Apple, I decided I did after a chance meeting with a stereotypical "hipster" when I went to buy a new power supply from Maplins. It was about 5 years ago and I literally stopped using apple as a result of it. He basically said "what's this for anyway a PC?" "Yes" I replied, I'm making one myself.. I think Ive got the know how nowadays" he grinned and said "feth that, buy an apple" I said "Er.. Well, I like making my own stuff anyway, its a good learning experience" and he said basically "Only clueless fethers use a PC, Apple stuff literally never ever break or crash.. seriously.. try one, I bet you don't buy another PC ever..." and then I took a look at his dirty greasy unwashed visage, his gak ear-rings and crap girly hair style and thought "feth it ill never use an Apple"
Somewhat immature on my part as well of course, but hey ho. First impressions and all that..
Anyway, its a good analogy. Some people absolutely love apple and hate Microsoft. You get people who swear by apple and use only them, and vice versa. I decided to side with the anti-apple crowd. I use a Samsung Galaxy S2, and a Creative Labs MP3 player, I have Windows 7 on my custom built PC. I dont and wont buy an Iphone, Ipod, or Mac.
But that is the absolute end of my involvement. I don't CARE what people have other than me. Several of my best mates have I-phones, I don't wax lyrical about it, I don't bore the tits off people at parties by telling them about my gak, utterly uninteresting stance, I just you know.. buy Android phones.
To me, these fethers endlessly haranguing people like me and Kan (and im not even a GW fan boy!) are outright trolling people, and yet they love to throw that accusation at everyone else.
If you go to a Mobile phone forum or an Apple Forum, do you get irate clusters of bigots who insult people that DO enjoy Apple products? (Im ignorant of these things, but Im sure they exist) how is it any different? I dont like many things, If I dislike Micheal Jackson I wouldnt go to www.weloveMJ.com and start going "OMG he had a rubber face!" on the forums, how is it any different?
All I dont understand, is that if you have decided that you hate GW, and wont buy their stuff, why cant you just stop buying their stuff, and stay in the areas of the forum that you find relevant? I have literally never been in the "Other games" section of Dakka, so why must these pests embark on a crusade of intolerence and attempt to mock and "lol" at people who do like GW games?
I don't know the thread and i wont name names, but I saw one a few months back where a well known hater started a thread, someone turned up and posted in it, and then said hater and a few mates where like "Hey I told you he would show up" "Yes, you owe me 5 dollars" "nudge wink" "lol!"
It's full on trolling.
If you don't want to play, buy, or have anything at all to do with GW, then don't. Why virtually bully people that do? gak, I can even see where people are coming from, I still haven't touched finecast.
But the gak I see on here by (apparently) grown men is entirely needless.
We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels.
TL;DR: Haters are gonna hate. EDIT: I had a bad encounter with a guy who didn't like the game (40k) I was playing, and decided to be a jerk about it.
I offer a demo service to my FLGS for 40k. It's a self-made volunteer thing, with hopes of increasing interest in 40k at the store; this'll hopefully attract new people to the store/game, which will increase sales, which will increase the support for 40k at the store, as well as build up a community of players.. That said, there's other games at the store, Warmachine/Hordes and Malifaux being far more popular. This is evident, as the PP and Wyrd sections are fully stocked, whereas the GW section is tucked into a sort of corner.
Unlike most gamers I've encountered, I love 40k, but I also understand why people play Warmahordes and Malifaux (abreviated to W/H/M). I have explained to every "demo-ee" that 40k is on the expensive side, and that it's understandable if they can't collect. I let them know that the other games are more affordable, and it might also interest them; either way, they can always borrow one of my armies to play 40k. I also always tell them that it's perfectly okay to collect more than one game system. This is how I roll. As well as all this, I emphasize to my players, that if they are going to play 40k at the store, being competitive is a quick way to get ostracized. The store is for casual gaming only, whether its Malifaux, PP, M:TG, Board Games or Lan games. The exceptions are tournaments, of course.
Yesterday, I was eating lunch, and the store called me in; someone had found out about my demo service from a google search (exciting!). I went over and met the guy (we'll call him Mercutio), and had a small chat. We declared a 1000 point game, nids vs Vanilla Marines, and I took a few minutes to build my list.
And that's when the hating started...
Unsurprisingly, there were a few W/H/M players who raised brows in our setup; they hadn't ever seen a 40k game, or it had been very long; this always happens, because 40k isn't often played at the store (which is what I'm trying to change). Of course, what also happens every time are the comments; former 40k players will denounce GW, and those who have never played will openly complain about the prices; this happens without provocation. Every time.
Still, some W/H/M are people who like the game system (what a shock, I know /sarcasm) and wanted to play 40k, but couldn't for any reason (price, lack of opponents, etc). One particular guy we'll call him Maximus) was happy to announce he had quit collecting 40k, but later showed interest in our game, the models, the fluff, the tactics, etc. This is also normal, the whole "denounce because its cool, but can't help showing positive interest."
Now, so far, there's always been this negativity from non-GW players at the store; however, hate as they might, they never attempt to convince players to quit 40k and play something else; their steam comes from explaining why THEY quit. That is, until yesterday.
While setting up, a regular Malifaux player (we'll call him Leonidas) walked into the gaming section, and found all three large tables had been taken up, and the two small tables had gear on it (one had W/H stuff, the other had Mercutio's and my stuff). Lately, the section has been empty every Thursday (minis night); Most W/H/M players were back in school/taking a break, and everything else was simply not played often. This upset Leonidas, and he noted aloud rather loudly "great, one warmachine, one 40k," in the sort of tone that says "who the are these guys?" I ignored it. Later, as we were playing, Maximus commented on how he'd like to collect Malifaux. Leonidas' response was to sell any 40k crap he had; a sure way for Maximus to afford Malifaux. At that point, I realized, Leonidas had something against 40k. Again, I ignored him.
The worst came at the end. Mercutio and I had had a great game, which ended in a draw and some awesome moments with a Carnifex and his ASoB Termies. Mercutio had some questions about my idea of building a community; he wanted to help, because he wanted sizeable community to play with. Then, out of the blue, Leonidas flat out interrupts us. He tells Mercutio "hey, if you want a good community, forget about 40k and join Malifaux." Mercutio and I paused, stared at him... and ignored him. I could tell he wasn't happy, and it was obvious neither was I.
Thankfully, Mercutio left on great terms; he wanted to help, so I told him to merely advertise. He was concerned about the fact that he had to leave for 6 months, but I told him it'd be fine, and that the community would be here beyond that time, i.e. I was making it to last. We shook hands, and he left satisfed, but wanting more. Despite that, I couldn't shake what had just happened. I was upset, and even fed up; Since I've joined the store's community, the amount of negativity for 40k has been a bombardment. No one could simply accept that it was what I played, they all have to insert their stabbing comments.
Which brings me to Dakka, because it's the same thing here. I often times see people entering 40k discussions, purely to insert how much they hate the game, hate the prices, and hate GW. I find most of these people are old veterans of the game, who remember playing 2nd ed. Naturally, when a game system changes radically, people are going to get upset. The mistake is assuming the new is bad. The new is different, but to a new player, it's still new.
Which brings me to my other point: I've grown used to ignoring this, but what about new players? They don't know your old system. They don't know about what it used to cost. They see the game, and like it for what it is now, and enjoy it. Why are you trying to get them to see it your way, what good does it serve? "They are wrong, and I must tell them they are wrong?" That's low. "I must inform them of all the horrible things they are about to embark." Why? Let them be, if it's what they like.
So ultimately, my point is haters are gonna hate, but nothing's worse than a hater trying to convince a lover to be a hater. Hate on your own.
This was very well said. I try to convince new people to get into WH, I teach them the basics, and I try to identify what army(ies) they may be interested in. From this point I 'always' let them know that certain armies are more expensive to build and let them know the alternatives for mini war gaming. For example I met a guy at my last job, he lives like 45 minutes away and where he goes to college he has some friends who play Warmachine. I said, "Honestly Josh, I love Warhammer but you have friends there who are established, can help you, can play with you, and the investment for a small force for Warmachine is considerably affordable. If you are dead-set of playing Warhammer with us I am happy to game with you but it is a 45minute drive here, getting an army will be a small investment, and you don't know anyone there right now that plays WH."
I try not to be biased solely to Warhammer, hell I'd like to try Warmachine but I don't have enough funds to start a small force right now, that being said I feel I need to be honest with people and lay it out for them their respective options as I see them. Long story short however, Josh has made the 45 minute drive 2 weekends in a row and is learning the game before he purchases an army (showed interest in Chaos Space Marines and Grey Knights), so he most definitely has made his choice for the time being (unless he starts both games, which is also perfectly fine).
Final note, your FLGS owner or manager really needs to talk to that guy that was badgering you two. I think there is a rivalry in every game, been there done that, but at the end of the day BOTH W/H/M as well as GW products generate revenue for him to stay in business. So one might argue that W/H/M sales make it possible for you to attempt to build a WH community and on that same note an increase in GW sales would add further profits to the owner thus helping to keep a roof for W/H/M (and you) to play games under. It is counter-productive for that guy to complain and convince a new player 'not' to purchase what he 'wants' to purchase and from my perspective someone like that would make me less likely to want to join 'his' community because he made a poor first impression and could be a reflection of the overall attitude of the group.
timetowaste85 wrote: Anything above 7-8, sitting on the field DURING the game is unacceptable. He deserved to be cleated. Rant over.
We were all around 12 years of age.
You wanna know the worst insult? The award for most improvement went to the fatty that sat during most games, probably because he stood instead. I F-king wish I was joking.
The coach would tell me to stop trying to be a one man team, kinda hard when you're the only one doing anything past the 1st quarter.
Desert Hunters of Vior'la The Purge Iron Hands Adepts of Pestilence Tallaran Desert Raiders Grey Knight Teleport Assault Force
Lt. Coldfire wrote:Seems to me that you should be refereeing and handing out red cards--like a boss.
I don't understand the Magic hate. How can people seriously say "Magic players are X" or that they "All do Y"? Try looking at the mixed bag of people who play Warhammer before tarring everyone of a different system with the same brush.
I play, and have played, a number of games so don't really care who does what in a shop. The "my gang vs their gang" attitude is rather childish and stupid. It's no better than people who squabble over whether Nintendo or Sega are best, or who makes the best trainers.
I play Magic. I've met a few douchbags but most are at least friendly and pleasant and some are very nice people. Oddly enough, that's what I've seen of Warhammer too. And model making in general actually. I see a fair bit of Magic-hate though, there are quite a few threads on Dakka complaining that Magic players share some unpleasant characteristics and dare to do things like take up too many tables on games night and the like. Well first come first serve.
Actually I find that when playing Magic, there are more adults about so that makes me more comfortable than most Warhammer playing venues. Also with things like D&D there are a better mix of people of all ages. There are several girls at one of my local places doing Magic nights now, and I've met quite a few girls doing D&D in general, this is good because my wife seems happier when she isn't the only girl in the room.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/03/19 20:51:46
It's been said a few times in the thread, so I'd like to let everyone know that I did indeed talk to the store owner. He, like me, was not happy to hear this.
I offered that he not talk to Leonidas just yet (benefit of the doubt, maybe he had a bad day?), but I let the owner understand that 40k does get quite a bit of flak from other store goers. He told me he'd discourage any such talk from then on.
Mind you, the number of 40k players now outnumbers any other miniature's group, due to my meetups. Still, I make it a point to remind my new players not to be negative towards other games, but instead be open minded and interested.
And if its not their cup of tea, to understand that those who do play it, do in fact enjoy it.
DQ:90S++G++MB++I--Pw40k01+D+A++/hWD-R+++T(D)DM+
Organiser of 40k Montreal There is only war in Montreal
kronk wrote:The International Programmers Society has twice met to get the world to agree on one methodology for programming dates. Both times they met, the meeting devolved into a giant Unreal Tournament Lan party...
heartserenade wrote:I think that it's not the game that fosters douchebags. It's just... there's douchebags in every group, and most people associate the game/group with said douchebags. Same goes for religion, political parties, families, etc.
That man speaks the truth.
It's a lot easier to see things in black and white, but in the end, remember stupidity is the one thing humanity shares best.
mwnciboo wrote:The internet is a funny beast, it seems to breed extremism or to be polarising, it's like the perceived lack of responsibility for what people are saying allows you to say more and more perverse and extreme parodies of your personal thoughts and beliefs.
Very true. This has been observed and named "online disinhibition effect" by some, or "GIFT" by others (for Greater Internet F-wad Theory).
Please don't post images containing swear words. Thanks ~ Manchu
Not that I think we should blame the Internet, to me it's first and foremost a fantastic window on the world.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/03/20 21:53:24
Okay, online disinhibition effect, I learned something today. Hyd your posts are always worth reading, it's not the 1st time I've said that to you, i'm sure.
I absolutely agree on the Window on the World comment, I have a wealth of material at my fingertips. I have learned more on the internet since leaving University than at any other time in my life. It's a massive enabler, unfortunately it doesn't discriminate who it enables.
Collecting Forge World 30k????? If you prefix any Thread Subject line on 30k or Pre-heresy or Horus Heresy with [30K] we can convince LEGO and the Admin team to create a 30K mini board if we can show there is enough interest!
Sniper: You sure you wanna hijack another ship ther capn hook? *loads round*
When your wife suggests roleplay as a result of your table top gaming... life just seems right
I took my wife thru the BRB for fantasy and 40k, the first thing she said was "AWESOME"... codex: Chaos Daemons Nurgle..... to all those who says God aint real....
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/03/20 01:21:22
The Viletide: Daemons of Nurgle/Deathguard: 7400 pts
Disclples of the Dragon - Ad Mech - about 2000 pts GSC - about 2000 Pts
Rhulic Mercs - um...many...
Circle Oroboros - 300 Pts or so
Menoth - 300+ pts
and yeah, I am still a bit sore at 
are these guys?" I ignored it. Later, as we were playing, Maximus commented on how he'd like to collect Malifaux. Leonidas' response was to sell any 
Desert Hunters of Vior'la 
The Purge 
Iron Hands 
Adepts of Pestilence 
Tallaran Desert Raiders 
Grey Knight Teleport Assault Force
Organiser of 
5th Company 2000 pts
615 pts
