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Redbeard wrote:
I supposed you have never needed to negotiate a salary, or a raise? Did you run to the cops and say, I'm not being paid enough, can you talk to my boss for me?
No, I appealed to the owner of the gym I worked at, and over time convinced him that the manager in charge of determining my pay was incompetent; eventually taking his job. I appealed to authority, and was rewarded quite nicely. I even got a little warm fuzzy feeling inside when I watched said manager pack up his office after being fired.
Redbeard wrote:
Standing up for yourself, as an adult, has very little to do with appealing to authority.
Not always, no, but often its an important component. Simply asking for, or demanding, a raise isn't always going to work. In the event that it doesn't, there are generally other avenues available, such as going above the person who is in the immediate position to grant you a raise.
Ultimately, claiming that standing up for yourself has nothing to do with people in the hierarchy above you makes about as much sense as claiming that its always a good idea to tell the truth. Its naive at the best of times.
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
Sure, but just because it isn't right doesn't mean it won't happen. Bullying is, typically, an adolescent thing. How much respect do teenagers typically have for rules.
We're not dealing with adults here, remember. We're dealing with a bunch of hormone-driven children who aren't always acting in their own best interest. This is precisely the age when they're most susceptible to acting out.
We tell teenagers not to drink - but they go out of their way to do so. We tell teenagers not to have sex, yet we see teenage pregnancies. Teenagers, as a whole, don't judge the consequences of their actions before doing them.
To me, that means that the sorts of zero-tolerance rules that are popular among educators these days will not have the desired effect. Kids will still bully each other, only now there will be strict and harsh punishments as a result. Zero tolerance! So, instead of a reasonable punishment for bullying, such as a lecture, the bully will end up serving a suspension or getting kicked out of school. Entirely too harsh for what's going on, and what will always go on simply because of the age groups we're talking about.
Actually, you have bullying at all ages, in all social groups, which it makes it important to be able to deal with meaningless verbal crap because you will encounter it at some point.
Commisar Von Humps wrote:Really sad stuff, and i do agree with the previous comments of schools don't care. they're too careful, too afraid of reprisal in some form.
On the other hand, that pastor, too far, and as always, one insensitive nut job should not set the standard for all in the faith.
Back on topic though, the victim has a right, even a responsibility to let people who will listen know or take the matters into their own hands if things become physical. On the other side of the fence though, some of these kids may be going through puberty and not to speak badly of the dead, but killing yourself is pretty stupid, and in some cases , sympathy for the victim can be hard to come by, not that the aggressor is exhonerated from what he's done though.
I'd never say one pastor represents all christians. but he is a part of the problem.
Then you have people like:
Who gets it and sets a good example. Here's a christian who got past those 3 lines in the bible and is advocating that gays should be allowed to marry.
But this is my whole problem with christianity in a nut shell. Both use the bible as the source for their beliefs. Who is right? you start with one book and get two totally different answers to a very complicated question. if you put both pastors I've sourced in the room together, how long would it be before one accuses the other of not being a "true christian" and condemning the other to hell.
Redbeard wrote:There have been successful human cultures in which rape has played a significant role
If by "successful" you mean "they're generally gakholes that noone wants to live in", yes.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Redbeard wrote:There have been successful human cultures in which rape has played a significant role
If by "successful" you mean "they're generally gakholes that noone wants to live in", yes.
You really don't know your history at all do you. The Mongol empire, under Genghis Khan, was one of the most culturally enlightened empires the world has ever seen.
Redbeard wrote:
While I disagree with your premise, I find your conclusion to be culturally biased towards a modern western culture.
Of course it is, that's how one makes normative judgments, which form the foundation of morality. Note that rape isn't nearly so prevalent today as it was in the time of Genghis Khan, this is largely because we, as a society, have decided that rape is not desirable and so we seek to limit its incidence. Similarly, many members of Western society have decided that bullying is not desirable, and so seek to limit its incidence.
Simply because we cannot completely eliminate behavior X is no reason to attempt to minimize behavior X, if it were then the very argument you're using to suggest that bullying is inevitable would be internally inconsistent.
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
Redbeard wrote:There have been successful human cultures in which rape has played a significant role
If by "successful" you mean "they're generally gakholes that noone wants to live in", yes.
You really don't know your history at all do you. The Mongol empire, under Genghis Khan, was one of the most culturally enlightened empires the world has ever seen.
And then it crumbled in to dust as history moved on because of its many flaws.
I defy you to name a successful modern country where rape is considered to be an important part of the culture.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/09 04:03:25
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
I wouldn't argue that rape (historically speaking) with great empires/nations was important to an empire or nation's structure and society. But was a "important" (for lack of a better term?) part of their military, psychologically, bestowing fear.
Another nation may be able to claim dominance with their army and partake in rape or as some call it, the spoils of conquest.
But doesn't succor the society's stability.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/09 04:15:46
Redbeard wrote:There have been successful human cultures in which rape has played a significant role
If by "successful" you mean "they're generally gakholes that noone wants to live in", yes.
You really don't know your history at all do you. The Mongol empire, under Genghis Khan, was one of the most culturally enlightened empires the world has ever seen.
And then it crumbled in to dust as history moved on because of its many flaws.
I defy you to name a successful modern country where rape is considered to be an important part of the culture.
Can you name any successful modern country? What is the criteria? Hell, what does modern mean? Can I name Japan?
... Quite how the hell we wound up here from the OT I have no idea or desire to know.
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
talk about a heated discussion,... **walks away, pulls cloak of invisibility over head.**
... Quite how the hell we wound up here from the