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Made in gb
Ancient Ultramarine Venerable Dreadnought





UK

I hope your moms doing alright, my mom had to go through it, and chemo is an real fether.

On topic, I never liked the term islamophobic.. it makes me sound as if I am scared of Muslim people? Im not even remotely scared of them, I just really dislike the tenets of their faith and find it to be incompatible with my ideals of equality, so I dislike the practitioner by default.

If someone dislikes gays and women, then I dislike them, it doesn't mean I'm scared of them, particularly because im neither gay, nor a woman!

We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels.  
   
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CthuluIsSpy wrote:Sadly, it would seem that there are quite a few who would see the puritanical regime of the 17th century restored...


A perfect comparison.

Always remembering that the Puritans who set up the Massachusetts colony didn't leave England so they could practice their religion freely; they were kicked out of England for practicing their religious intolerance too freely.

And this is the change some people would make of America...

CHAOS! PANIC! DISORDER!
My job here is done. 
   
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The Great State of Texas

Melissia wrote:About the same as it was before she started, so I'd say pretty good. I just need to try to get her to exercise a little (a walk around the block for instance) so that she doesn't get weaker.


Thats always extremely difficult. Especially as the chemo wears on. Eating and drinking are critical. Dehydration can be near instantaneous it seems. Remember protein heavy stuff is the deal to help keep the blood count up.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/16 15:45:39


-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
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sebster wrote:7 Thou shalt not commit adultery. Adultery is absolutely, 100% legal in the US.


Actually, there are laws on the books against adultery (being defined as being married and having sex with someone other thay your spouse) in many states. It's rarely prosecuted, but it forms the legal basis for many divorces.

CHAOS! PANIC! DISORDER!
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USA

Vulcan wrote:
sebster wrote:7 Thou shalt not commit adultery. Adultery is absolutely, 100% legal in the US.


Actually, there are laws on the books against adultery (being defined as being married and having sex with someone other thay your spouse) in many states. It's rarely prosecuted, but it forms the legal basis for many divorces.
Yeah, but there's also laws stating that if two trains meet on eachothers' paths (one going one way on east-west track A and one going another way on east-west track B) that they have to stop until one passes.

The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
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My blog
 
   
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Melissia wrote:
Vulcan wrote:
sebster wrote:7 Thou shalt not commit adultery. Adultery is absolutely, 100% legal in the US.


Actually, there are laws on the books against adultery (being defined as being married and having sex with someone other thay your spouse) in many states. It's rarely prosecuted, but it forms the legal basis for many divorces.
Yeah, but there's also laws stating that if two trains meet on eachothers' paths (one going one way on east-west track A and one going another way on east-west track B) that they have to stop until one passes.


Hunh? If they are on separate tracks (A and B) then they don't have to stop at all. And what does that have to do with Adultery being legal, illegal, or in the Ten Commandments?

CHAOS! PANIC! DISORDER!
My job here is done. 
   
Made in us
Consigned to the Grim Darkness





USA

Vulcan wrote:
Melissia wrote:
Vulcan wrote:
sebster wrote:7 Thou shalt not commit adultery. Adultery is absolutely, 100% legal in the US.


Actually, there are laws on the books against adultery (being defined as being married and having sex with someone other thay your spouse) in many states. It's rarely prosecuted, but it forms the legal basis for many divorces.
Yeah, but there's also laws stating that if two trains meet on eachothers' paths (one going one way on east-west track A and one going another way on east-west track B) that they have to stop until one passes.


Hunh? If they are on separate tracks (A and B) then they don't have to stop at all
According to the law in Texas, they do.

My point was that every place has stupid laws on the book, but as a rule in adultery is legal. Socially frowned upon, but legal. Used as a justification for divorce != illegal.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/05/16 15:58:13


The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Melissia wrote:According to the law in Texas, they do.

My point was that every place has stupid laws on the book, but as a rule in adultery is legal. Socially frowned upon, but legal. Used as a justification for divorce != illegal.


Okay, I see what you are saying. A stupid law is a stupid law.

My counter is that it is still a law. Here in Missouri, there actually is a crime called Adultery that involves a married person having sex with someone other than their spouse. I was bringing it up in response to Sebster's analysis of the how many of the ten commandments had made it into the American legal system.

Yes, it is pretty dumb, along with the crime called Sodomy (any sexual act that isn't straight-up intercourse, including manual, oral, and anal variations - and makes no distinction between willing and unwilling participants). It is hardly ever prosecuted (well, Sodomy comes up in a lot of Rape cases as well), and no one proactively looks for it, but it is still a law. Which was my only point.

CHAOS! PANIC! DISORDER!
My job here is done. 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






Melissia wrote:About the same as it was before she started, so I'd say pretty good. I just need to try to get her to exercise a little (a walk around the block for instance) so that she doesn't get weaker.

Might be careful about that, Catching a bug could be deadly. Mi madre refuses to eat almost anything, she's on a iv supplement drip. I'm trying to convince her to use marijuana because she's wasting away and it's not even the chemo killing her.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/16 16:44:48


 Avatar 720 wrote:
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The Great State of Texas

Thats hard. Keep strong both of you.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
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Melissia wrote:Well it is about time for lunch here. Hell I'm picking up some Taco Bueno for my mother anyway (seeing as her energy is drained a bit due to chemo), which should be amusing to see if they've upped their standards for hiring since last time I went there.


I'm sorry to hear about your mother Melissia. I lost my sister to pancreatic cancer two years ago and chemo is a deal you make with the devil.

 
   
Made in au
Rough Rider with Boomstick




Brisbane, Australia

Vulcan wrote:
Yes, it is pretty dumb, along with the crime called Sodomy (any sexual act that isn't straight-up intercourse, including manual, oral, and anal variations - and makes no distinction between willing and unwilling participants). It is hardly ever prosecuted (well, Sodomy comes up in a lot of Rape cases as well), and no one proactively looks for it, but it is still a law. Which was my only point.


That's still a law? And here I thought Australia had been behind the times in getting rid of that law.

sebster wrote:
Orlanth wrote:Its a known fact that Aussies are genetically disposed towards crime, we intentionally set them up that way.

But only awesome crimes like bushranging and, if I understand the song correctly, sheep stealing and suicide.
 
   
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Vulcan wrote:Yes, it is pretty dumb, along with the crime called Sodomy (any sexual act that isn't straight-up intercourse, including manual, oral, and anal variations - and makes no distinction between willing and unwilling participants). It is hardly ever prosecuted (well, Sodomy comes up in a lot of Rape cases as well), and no one proactively looks for it, but it is still a law. Which was my only point.

Actually, the law does make a distinction between willing and unwilling participants. At common law willing participants were co-conspirators, and therefore couldn't testify against one another at trial. So it would be almost impossible to prosecute someone in cases of willing participants.

The sodomy laws were most often used to prosecute spousal rape.

text removed by Moderation team. 
   
Made in us
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Firehawk 1st Armored Regimental Headquarters

Most of the founding fathers either did not believe in religion, disliked it, or did not wish to impose it on others.

Now I am a faithful church goer, but I DO NOT want to have my religion shoved down other peoples throats because 9 times our of 10 that will make them hate me and everyone else that shares my religion.

This is why I wish that we ended up electing a Muslim or Jewish president, just to see all the hard-line and christian evangelicals go ape-

"The Imperium is nothing if not willing to go to any lengths necessary. So the Trekkies are zipping around at warp speed taking small chucks out of an nigh-on infinite amount of ships, with the Imperium being unable to strike back. feth it, says central command, and detonates every vortex warhead in the fleet, plunging the entire sector into the Warp. Enjoy tentacle-rape, Kirk, we know Sulu will." -Terminus

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I'm sorry to hear about your mother Melissia. My best wishes to both of you.




sirlynchmob wrote:But many christians do take the flood story literally, and that it actually happened. But if that part is just a story, then why isn't the entire bible just a story?. A nice work of fiction with nothing divine about it.


I'm saying that the biblical literalists searching Mount Ararat for the actual ark, or the atheists saying that thousands of inches of water had to fall every second for the whole world to be flooded are basically, functionally illiterate, because they have no idea how to actually read a story.

The point of the story, the characters and the themes, and in the poetry of the telling, holds the point, and has important truth, even though the whole of the world never actually flooded. It is story of faith, and of God saving the church (or even an origin story of the church).

It's no different to watching the Avengers and pointing out it isn't phyically possible for any power source, even theoretical, generate the power needed by Iron Man's suit. It's just not the point of the story.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hellfury wrote:It is a common bit of unoriginal groupthink seen in the U.S. that he has regurgitated.

I keep hearing that social liberals are the ones attacking the religious conservatives. But the only real rationale I can see for that stance is to appear as the victim to rally more people behind the beliefs they are attempting to force others to abide by.


The issue to me, by and large, is that such a culture war is very flattering to both sides. It's nice to consider ourselves as enlightened rationalists, fighting against the irrational. It's just as nice to think of ourselves as noble, righteous people fighting against decadent, immoral secularists.

The issue is that once we start to really like the fight for how it makes us feel about ourselves, then we go looking for grounds to fight over, even when there's nothing of substance to fight over. It's why the religious right is knee deep in the fight over gay marriage even though someone else getting married affects them not one tiny bit - because it means they get to go into battle for their side - prove their credentials as a righteous, god fearing person. But it's also why atheist groups will go to court over a christmas display in the middle of town. They all love the fight, because it tells them something about themselves they find flattering.

I agree that in the US the religious side is more aggressive, because they're more numerous, better organised and much more closely aligned with one of the major political parties, but that's really just circumstance.

The way to end this, and get back to arguing over things that actually matter, is to start seeing the whole fight for the nonsense it is.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Vulcan wrote:Actually, there are laws on the books against adultery (being defined as being married and having sex with someone other thay your spouse) in many states. It's rarely prosecuted, but it forms the legal basis for many divorces.


Interesting. I knew that since about 1960 every state in the union has maintained no fault divorce, and so assumed that adultery no longer longer mattered in courts of law (barrng, of course, pre-nups, but that's private contract, not public law).

I had no idea that some states continued to have adultery laws, even if largely unenforced.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/05/17 03:13:38


“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”

Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. 
   
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United States

sebster wrote:
The issue to me, by and large, is that such a culture war is very flattering to both sides. It's nice to consider ourselves as enlightened rationalists, fighting against the irrational. It's just as nice to think of ourselves as noble, righteous people fighting against decadent, immoral secularists.


But where does that leave those of us that just want to be left to our decadent, immoral, secular ways?

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sebster wrote:
sirlynchmob wrote:But many christians do take the flood story literally, and that it actually happened. But if that part is just a story, then why isn't the entire bible just a story?. A nice work of fiction with nothing divine about it.


I'm saying that the biblical literalists searching Mount Ararat for the actual ark, or the atheists saying that thousands of inches of water had to fall every second for the whole world to be flooded are basically, functionally illiterate, because they have no idea how to actually read a story.


so the bible is just a story, good to know.

 
   
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dogma wrote:
sebster wrote:
The issue to me, by and large, is that such a culture war is very flattering to both sides. It's nice to consider ourselves as enlightened rationalists, fighting against the irrational. It's just as nice to think of ourselves as noble, righteous people fighting against decadent, immoral secularists.


But where does that leave those of us that just want to be left to our decadent, immoral, secular ways?

Going to hell?
I kid I kid.

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United States

AustonT wrote:
Going to hell?
I kid I kid.



Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. 
   
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dogma wrote:But where does that leave those of us that just want to be left to our decadent, immoral, secular ways?


Well you're left smugly claiming yourselves about the false culture war.

No-one gets out of this without me judging them for something


Automatically Appended Next Post:
sirlynchmob wrote:so the bible is just a story, good to know.


No, not even a little. The point is that nothing is 'just a story', whether the events in it literally happened or not. And especially not the bible. I'm an atheist, and calling it 'just a story' bothers the hell out of me, because I happen to think the stories mankind has told happen to matter one hell of a lot. Stories are how we understand a very complicated world.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/17 05:37:08


“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”

Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. 
   
Made in gb
Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God






Inside your mind, corrupting the pathways

However, I don't see a great deal of distinction between a story where an all powerful being wipes out most life with a flood, and a story where an all powerful being tries to eat the earth but is stopped by his messenger who grew attached to the inhabitants and flew up into space on his surfboard to stop his former master using the power cosmic.

Although granted one has much better illustrations than the other...

   
Made in us
Hangin' with Gork & Mork






You don't understand the difference and cultural impact between a millennium spanning story and a recent comic book story? For starters probably just about every human on the planet knows the Flood Story in one form or another while Galactus is still recent pop culture figure. Another difference is that without those other stories you wouldn't have these later stories. The ancient stories that have survived through time inform our storytelling today. Stories from the Bible have informed comic book storytelling, never the other way around. This isn't even touching understanding the cultural impact.

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Made in gb
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Inside your mind, corrupting the pathways

Perhaps I should have been clearer; I understand that older stories inform works that come later etc, however, the story itself is still just a story - saying that the bible stories somehow informs all other stories is false; for a start the bible is not the origin of most of the fiction it contains, itself being a modified collection of myths and legends from local fokelore and religions mashed together and changed over time. Additionally, many of these other stories exist still in their own right to give their own inspirations.

Secondly, many ideas occur independent of any external influence; pyramids in egypt and ziggurats in south america, pictograms, maths, writing, fire, metalworking, various gods/spirits etc to explain the unknown and even stories arise in lands completely cut off from one another with surprising similarities.

Saying that the flood story (or any other in the bible) is important? Maybe for providing a number of reasonably well known examples of tropes etc. But being important simply because they are in the bible? Not so much.

   
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SilverMK2 wrote:However, I don't see a great deal of distinction between a story where an all powerful being wipes out most life with a flood, and a story where an all powerful being tries to eat the earth but is stopped by his messenger who grew attached to the inhabitants and flew up into space on his surfboard to stop his former master using the power cosmic.


Then you don't. But that doesn't mean millions of people don't find a great deal of truth behind the story of the flood, and other stories within the bible, and that makes it far more than just a story. And that's without any of them believing there was literally a flood, by the way.

“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”

Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. 
   
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The Great State of Texas

dogma wrote:
sebster wrote:
The issue to me, by and large, is that such a culture war is very flattering to both sides. It's nice to consider ourselves as enlightened rationalists, fighting against the irrational. It's just as nice to think of ourselves as noble, righteous people fighting against decadent, immoral secularists.


But where does that leave those of us that just want to be left to our decadent, immoral, secular ways?


Join the LIbertarian Party and support a French republic style separation? You won't be popular though.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
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Made in us
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United States

sebster wrote:
Well you're left smugly claiming yourselves about the false culture war.

No-one gets out of this without me judging them for something


I'd rather enjoy my unconventional love.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Frazzled wrote:
Join the LIbertarian Party and support a French republic style separation? You won't be popular though.


But one of my decadent pleasures is making people do things for the purpose of annoying them!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/17 16:14:24


Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. 
   
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness





USA

Uh yeah, the bible's great flood story isn't even original to the bible, so don't try to claim it informed all other stories.

The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
 
   
Made in ca
Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta




sebster wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:so the bible is just a story, good to know.


No, not even a little. The point is that nothing is 'just a story', whether the events in it literally happened or not. And especially not the bible. I'm an atheist, and calling it 'just a story' bothers the hell out of me, because I happen to think the stories mankind has told happen to matter one hell of a lot. Stories are how we understand a very complicated world.


Well as far as stories go, the bible isn't even that good of one. Sure its a cult classic, but I'd hardly rank it up there with Shakespeare, Twain or Poe. For people of the era though Socrates, or plato are much more philosophically relevant than the bible. Plus they were real people.

 
   
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[DCM]
The Main Man






Beast Coast

sirlynchmob wrote:
sebster wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:so the bible is just a story, good to know.


No, not even a little. The point is that nothing is 'just a story', whether the events in it literally happened or not. And especially not the bible. I'm an atheist, and calling it 'just a story' bothers the hell out of me, because I happen to think the stories mankind has told happen to matter one hell of a lot. Stories are how we understand a very complicated world.


Well as far as stories go, the bible isn't even that good of one. Sure its a cult classic, but I'd hardly rank it up there with Shakespeare, Twain or Poe. For people of the era though Socrates, or plato are much more philosophically relevant than the bible. Plus they were real people.



I hope I'm not the only one that sees the humor in someone claiming that the people in the Bible were not real, unlike Socrates.

   
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United States

I like this idea that Socrates wasn't interpreted by Plato.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/17 21:55:54


Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. 
   
 
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