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I think another nice thing about Warmahordes is the fact that they will show you what is coming up. For example, I know that The centurion/Hammersmith/Avenger is being released in plastic in a month or two. Thus I can decide that, if I hate the new model (I don't), I can hunt down the classics before they are all gone. Also, if I hate the classics (still don't), I know that if I hold off for a little, I can get the new models.

GW doesn't do that.

yastobaal wrote:

AduroT wrote:The figure would still be playable, no reason it wouldn't be. It's not like you're no longer allowed to use Iron Lich Asphyxious because he's now Lich Lord Asphyxious in the game.

Can't use Lich Lord Asphyxious either. It's Asphyxious the Hellbringer now.

Maybe i misread, but you can always use every version of every caster.

Steampunk.

Negator80 wrote:

yastobaal wrote:

AduroT wrote:The figure would still be playable, no reason it wouldn't be. It's not like you're no longer allowed to use Iron Lich Asphyxious because he's now Lich Lord Asphyxious in the game.

Can't use Lich Lord Asphyxious either. It's Asphyxious the Hellbringer now.

Maybe i misread, but you can always use every version of every caster.

...That's kinda the point they're trying to make about the dead characters not being useable thing...

It would be nice if they consolidated all the background from Mark 1 and old NQ's into a book or something. I'm interested in reading it, but I'm certainly not interested in buying out dated books and hunting down old NQ's.

Shadowbrand wrote:Steampunk.

Not really.

CT GAMER wrote:

Shadowbrand wrote:Steampunk.

Not really.

A decent amount of steam, mostly just fantasy with some tech. Also, it's all about military-industrial complexes and fantasy drama: not a lot of punk.

A major plus for PP is that they will go out of their way to give a unit that many people dislike a UA that makes them playable.

Scattergunners and Hammerfall High Shield Gun Corps. are great examples. From gak to decent, if not good.

Cryonicleech wrote:A major plus for PP is that they will go out of their way to give a unit that many people dislike a UA that makes them playable.

Scattergunners and Hammerfall High Shield Gun Corps. are great examples. From gak to decent, if not good.

I view this more as a negative myself. With how their card system works for model rules they Should errata bad units to improve them, not band aid on additional UAs that you need to make the unit worthwhile. They also have the problem with some UAs being Too good. I'm looking at you Bane Thralls and Winterguard.

Meh, true. But at least units get a band aid, as compared to having to wait out a whole edition to hope that a unit becomes viable.


I don't know why Bane Thralls got their UA. They weren't desparately needing tough, and a standard with undead? Really?

Now we're getting Bane Cavalry, which IMHO is just dumb...

Bane Thralls getting a UA is itself not bad. I'm fine with the standard, more as a psychological effect on the enemy rather than as a rallying point, and the standard giving them Tough is good, but not yet too good. Where it gets stupid is the Officer letting them stand up for free, which removes the one downside of Tough, while giving him TWO attacks. If they got rid of Dead Rise and just left him with two attacks the UA would be fine and still plenty good enough to take.

Winterguard are the same way. Too many stacking buffs. Sprays are fine. Boosted attack rolls are fine. Boosted sprays are Stupid, especially on a unit that can fire off Fifteen sprays a turn. Bob and Weave is fine, but when stacked with the factions ready access to Iron Flesh they become defense Stupid.


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Oh, and Bane Cav isn't dumb, it's Amazing. I don't know what they"ll do (other than hit like 100 ton trucks) but I'll get them because I love the look of the Bane models and have been wanting Bane Cav for a while.

My problem with tough is similar to your problems with bob and weave. Band Thralls already have stealth, why do they need tough? And yes, Dead Rise was completely unnecessary as well. To be fair, the UA isn't cheap, but I still think that tough was uneccessary for a unit that was already good.

As for Winterguard. Yeah, no complaints here. DEF 18-17 Winterguard with Grigorovich is just dumb. High DEF infantry are always a problem, only Saeryn and eDenny really have solutions to them that ignore the luck of the dice... :/

To each his own I guess. While I'm not super excited about a cavalryman without legs I guess I'll have to wait and see. The Retribution Cav were pretty.

Banes aren't nessisarily legless. Look at the Knights, several of the poses/flow of the robes suggest knees under there. I don't feel like lifting their skirts to check though.

Also, whenever someone complains about Tough on Banes I counter with Rhupert, a two point solo who can give whatever unit you want Tough.

My favorite way to deal with Winterguard is pAsphyxious. Parasite followed by Feat. They die on fives.

AduroT wrote:I'm looking at you Bane Thralls and Winterguard.

The Knights Errant are having quite the laugh at this.

12thRonin wrote:

AduroT wrote:I'm looking at you Bane Thralls and Winterguard.

The Knights Errant are having quite the laugh at this.

Oh dear lord they're a whole other source of gak.

And the poor regular Knights Errant can't compete...

I'm sure the OP has gathered what he needs from the thread and so forth, but I'm just going to offer my two cents here. I got into Warmachine in the past year/year and a half, and I've been absolutely loving it compared to Warhammer. I love the Warhammer fluff and universe, but on the rare occasions I got to play a game (my local meta at the time was incredibly small and I usually wound up working on the days that they usually met up) I could never really keep up with all the rules that well. It could be fun, for sure, but it was confusing and time consuming, and eventually I wound up just setting my models aside and keeping myself to the Black Library books.

Then I got into Warmachine, and it's been the exact opposite. I don't really care much about the fluff - it's not important to me beyond the idea of "Faction X has this sort of background, whereas faction Y has this background". I haven't kept up with the storylines they've put out at all, and while this may seem very strange coming from a fluff-oriented player like myself, I'm actually enjoying it much more that way. It's allowing me to focus on the game first, not the background, and between that and the fact that I've gotten in FAR more games (I moved into the city and now have access to a decently-sized meta that meets once a week, every week baring holidays) I've been having a much better time actually playing the game rather than just sitting at home list-building and rereading the fluff. The rules are simple, easy to pick up and understand, and are consistent, and the tighter scale of the game (smaller battlegroups vs huge 2000pt armies in Warhammer) has a much greater appeal to me. I feel like I understand my army more.

Again, this is just my experience, but I think Warmachine's a fantastic game, and it's been quite a lot of fun to play. I still love the Warhammer universe, but I doubt I'll ever really get back to playing it - I'll just limit myself to the BL novels. For me, Warhammer's my source for fluff, Warmachine's my source for actual gaming.