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But I bet you do know plenty of 20 year olds with weight isssues that have low self esteem because of their weight.


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 the shrouded lord wrote:
ft people ARE treated differently, and perhaps should be... skinny, attractive people WILL be treated differently to fat people. this IS reality.

This is only true of certain cultures, ours being one of them.

but low self-esteem is directly connected to the weight issue, because being over-weight IS an issue.

 cincydooley wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:


And it's ridiculous what becomes "princess" clothing. Grey sweater with purple stars? "it's my princess sweater" Tye dye shirt with an American flag on it? "Princess flag shirt"

I can't wait.

Although I know for certain that Clone Wars / Rebels will definitely be on our Daddy/Daughter watch list.

Ohh yeah... we already get down with Avengers and most of the Marvel films

jasper76 - in all seriousness, are you serious?

Or are you doing a bit of LULZ stirring in here?

I am serious in that I think movies that depict negative stereotypes about a certain body image, and positive stereotypes about unrealistic body images can be harmful to a childs self esteem.

I would not choose to show a hypothetical child of mine certain Disney movies because of this. There are plenty of other children movies out there.

I'm not judging people who do, I am simply attempting to expressing my opinion on the matter, and why I hold that opinion.

As I said before, this is all coming across that I am way more exercised about this than I really am. I don't have kids.

 Albatross wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:


It's an understandable yet extremely short-sighted view, though, as it's solely based on emotions and therefore doesn't have a place in economics.

If you think emotion has no place in economics then you really don't understand economics.

Not sure if you got my point. Willfully or not.

Emotions are a weakness for one who strifes for success. Emotiones can be easily exploited and most often are in order to boost success.

When in control, emotiones are a weakness as long as they are irrational and don't serve an actual deeper purpose. An employee is dragging the team down? Kick his butt. He doesn't comply? Fire. Circumstances don't matter.

In this very case, the mother has no clue on how a movie studio works economically. She just sees her child. Good for her. Worthless for the company.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:


And it's ridiculous what becomes "princess" clothing. Grey sweater with purple stars? "it's my princess sweater" Tye dye shirt with an American flag on it? "Princess flag shirt"

I can't wait.

Although I know for certain that Clone Wars / Rebels will definitely be on our Daddy/Daughter watch list.

Ohh yeah... we already get down with Avengers and most of the Marvel films

Awesome. It's something my wife and I talked about quite a bit, in that we really do want to be cognizant of allowing her to see both sides of the spectrum and make her own choices (once she's able). Despite the fact that I guess I am a "jock," I'm also a huge geek, so she's going to get lots of different takes.

The other fortunate thing today is that there are simply tons more instances of "strong female characters doing non-stereotypically female things" in media, and being an athletic female today isn't even really considered being a "tomboy" anymore. Strangely, the critique about being an athletic female today is coming more from larger females.....it's odd!

 cincydooley wrote:


Awesome. It's something my wife and I talked about quite a bit, in that we really do want to be cognizant of allowing her to see both sides of the spectrum and make her own choices (once she's able). Despite the fact that I guess I am a "jock," I'm also a huge geek, so she's going to get lots of different takes.

The other fortunate thing today is that there are simply tons more instances of "strong female characters doing non-stereotypically female things" in media, and being an athletic female today isn't even really considered being a "tomboy" anymore.

Same here cincy - and I dare say that my daughters have turned out pretty great so far!

 Sigvatr wrote:

Emotions are a weakness for one who strifes for success. Emotiones can be easily exploited and most often are in order to boost success.

Like anger at the system that drives people to change, passion that drives people to succeed, compassion that means people empathize and see a gap in the market? Emotions are what drives most companies to grow and succeed. Companies fail when they become dry machines designed to make more money.

If we're going to petition Disney with the goal to help girls have role models can we at least ask them to quit their matricidal rampage that they've been on since they first started making movies?

Prestor Jon wrote:
If we're going to petition Disney with the goal to help girls have role models can we at least ask them to quit their matricidal rampage that they've been on since they first started making movies?

You know, I never thought about it, but man Walt must have had some mommy issues.

 Ouze wrote:

Prestor Jon wrote:
If we're going to petition Disney with the goal to help girls have role models can we at least ask them to quit their matricidal rampage that they've been on since they first started making movies?

You know, I never thought about it, but man Walt must have had some mommy issues.

According to Wikipedia, Walt Disney's mother, Flora, died in 1938 by asphyxiation, and this "plagued her son Walt with grief for the rest of his life."



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Whoa this is actually pretty whacked. His mom died due to fumes from a gas furnace in a house that Walt Disney had bought her only a month before

That would mess with most peoples' heads.

Here's the full Wiklipedia section I'm referring to:

Flora died in 1938 in an accident that plagued her son Walt with grief for the rest of his life.[2] After the success of their film Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs, in 1938, Walt and Roy presented their parents with a new home in North Hollywood, near the Disney studios in Burbank, California. Less than a month after moving in, Flora complained to Walt and Roy of problems with the gas furnace in her new home. Studio repairmen were sent to the house, but the problem was not adequately fixed.[citation needed] Flora wrote a letter to her daughter Ruth describing the wonderful new home, but again complaining of the fumes from the furnace. A few days later, Flora died of asphyxiation caused by the fumes at age 70.[citation needed] She is entombed next to her husband in Glendale's Forest Lawn Memorial Park Cemetery.

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
If anything, Disney villains tell kids that old people are bad.

To the topic on hand:
As an avid Disney fan, I say go for it.

My daughters love Disney, much like I did when I was a child, and while the Princesses are probably their favorites, they enjoy just about every character that there is (both male and female). Case in point: my youngest, while excited to meet the Princesses, loves Mickey Mouse big time and she wouldn't let go of him when we met him at Disney World last Christmas, it was adorable. If Disney makes a character with special needs, it would work because they would make it work. Not to mention, they have always taken consideration of people with disabilities (as evident if you have visited a park before) so I know they could do it right.

Wasnot there a big deal recently that they are no longer accommodating special needs kids like they used to.

 jasper76 wrote:
I am serious in that I think movies that depict negative stereotypes about a certain body image, and positive stereotypes about unrealistic body images can be harmful to a childs self esteem.

I would not choose to show a hypothetical child of mine certain Disney movies because of this. There are plenty of other children movies out there.

I'm not judging people who do, I am simply attempting to expressing my opinion on the matter, and why I hold that opinion.

As I said before, this is all coming across that I am way more exercised about this than I really am. I don't have kids.

I feel that your ignorance of Disney has already completely undermined your argument. But I feel the need to post this for you:

http://disney.wikia.com/wiki/Disney_Villains

Let us see how many realistic, overweight villains there are! Holy crap, most of the chubby ones are anthropomorphic. You had better teach your child that Anthropomorphic people are not always evil! This needs to be taught by every parent!

But listen, in all seriousness. You are assuming that a child cannot learn right from wrong. Especially after the most important person in their life, their parent, has sat them down and told them right from wrong. You are just, wrong.

 Alpharius wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:


Awesome. It's something my wife and I talked about quite a bit, in that we really do want to be cognizant of allowing her to see both sides of the spectrum and make her own choices (once she's able). Despite the fact that I guess I am a "jock," I'm also a huge geek, so she's going to get lots of different takes.

The other fortunate thing today is that there are simply tons more instances of "strong female characters doing non-stereotypically female things" in media, and being an athletic female today isn't even really considered being a "tomboy" anymore.

Same here cincy - and I dare say that my daughters have turned out pretty great so far!

I know it was none of my business, but sometimes it annoys me how mom's will force their girls to be girly. My niece loved playing with my action figures and watch me play video games. She loved dinosaurs and trucks. But recently her mom forbid her from doing that. When I asked her why she said no guy wants to be with a tomboy.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Wasnot there a big deal recently that they are no longer accommodating special needs kids like they used to.

Not exactly. What they did was alter a program at the park that was clearly and unambiguously being abused.

 cincydooley wrote:

The other fortunate thing today is that there are simply tons more instances of "strong female characters doing non-stereotypically female things" in media, and being an athletic female today isn't even really considered being a "tomboy" anymore. Strangely, the critique about being an athletic female today is coming more from larger females.....it's odd!

The "beauty" of that sort of situation today is... IF for some reason my daughter ends up gaining a ton of weight during puberty or something to where she ends up "fat" I know, from experience that there's still a place for her athletically in rugby. I can show her healthy things that don't require her to be a human mop (stick thin with a ton of hair). It's one thing that, any time I've recently gotten into conversations with a "larger" woman who is moaning about her weight and how tough it is to lose weight, I ALWAYS point her toward rugby, and have on several occasions pointed them to a specific team within the local area (usually, they are moaning because they have a desire to exercise, but have not seen a viable way to really do so that keeps them motivated when Im suggesting this... I don't suggest sports to the person who is complaining just to complain or who shows no desire to alter their life)


Also, you're right on movies. Brave is one of my personal favorites for my kids (even if they always say they dont like it when it first comes on) as there isn't much to do with body type, but rather gender based stereotypes and relational problems.

 jasper76 wrote:


This is only true of certain cultures, ours being one of them.

Fortunately. Appraising an unhealthy lifestyle is bad.

 Sigvatr wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:


This is only true of certain cultures, ours being one of them.

Fortunately. Appraising an unhealthy lifestyle is bad.

However, sometimes wieght issues have nothing to do with lifestyle at all.



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(P.S. I admit to all and sundry that my view of Disney villain portrayals was incorrect and based on ignorance. I guess I was superimposing the Urusla image on other movies I have not seen. I was wrong on this...sorry!)

 jasper76 wrote:

However, sometimes wieght issues have nothing to do with lifestyle at all.

In before internet bodybuilders.

 jasper76 wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:


This is only true of certain cultures, ours being one of them.

Fortunately. Appraising an unhealthy lifestyle is bad.

However, sometimes wieght issues have nothing to do with lifestyle at all.

I am so tired of this statement. The fraction of people with an actual disease is so incredibly, incredibly, incredibly tiny compared to the other cases that I don't even think about caring for those when talking about the topic at hand.

@Sigvatr: At this point, I'll need to see your medical credentials to take you seriously on this issue.

 Sigvatr wrote:

I am so tired of this statement. The fraction of people with an actual disease is so incredibly, incredibly, incredibly tiny compared to the other cases that I don't even think about caring for those when talking about the topic at hand.

Actually, I'm pretty sure it's a natural and healthy state of being. That's what the woman who couldn't fit into that airplane said before she took all those pictures of herself binge eating junk food to teach them a lesson, or something.

 Sigvatr wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:


This is only true of certain cultures, ours being one of them.

Fortunately. Appraising an unhealthy lifestyle is bad.

However, sometimes wieght issues have nothing to do with lifestyle at all.

I am so tired of this statement. The fraction of people with an actual disease is so incredibly, incredibly, incredibly tiny compared to the other cases that I don't even think about caring for those when talking about the topic at hand.

hahahaha, HAHAHAHAHA! Oh man.

So at least we see the stereotypes are alive and well in adults, if not children who watch Disney movies

 jasper76 wrote:
@Sigvatr: At this point, I'll need to see your medical credentials to take you seriously on this issue.

Feel free to point me at any study that explicitely calls out genes for obesity as the primary deciding factor.


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 daedalus wrote:


Actually, I'm pretty sure it's a natural and healthy state of being. That's what the woman who couldn't fit into that airplane said before she took all those pictures of herself binge eating junk food to teach them a lesson, or something.

That airplane company was totally discriminating her by not offering a "super fat" seat size. DISCRIMINATIOOOOOOOOOON!

 Sigvatr wrote:
Feel free to point me at any study that explicitely calls out genes for obesity as the primary deciding factor.

Here's one: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1835397/

And here's pages and pages more for your perusal: http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=genetics+and+obesity&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart

Kinda working out like that "emotion has no place in economics" argument you had earlier.

 jasper76 wrote:
Feel free to point me at any study that explicitely calls out genes for obesity as the primary deciding factor.

Here's one: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1835397/

a) 1989. Invalid.

b) Genetics not singled out.

And here's pages and pages more for your perusal: http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=genetics+and+obesity&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart

Not a primary source.

Come at me.

Like anger at the system that drives people to change, passion that drives people to succeed, compassion that means people empathize and see a gap in the market? Emotions are what drives most companies to grow and succeed. Companies fail when they become dry machines designed to make more money.

Did you read the full post?

I am talking of high-rollers to point that out.

 Dreadwinter wrote:
Kinda working out like that "emotion has no place in economics" argument you had earlier.

To be fair, a company making a decision whether to go to market with a product is not doing so based on emotion... They get the consumer to buy their product based on emotion though, so I guess, in the end, everyone is right