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 jasper76 wrote:

So you don't think children absorb and take to heart images they see in movies???

Sure they do.

And that's why you fething parent.

Not that tough a concept.

 cincydooley wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
If I had a girl with 'special needs', I would not expose her to Disney princesses.

If I had a girl without 'special needs', I would not expose her to Disny princesses.

Our forebears fought a war to eliminate princesses from society...monarchy and aristocracy are disgusting ideas that belong in the garbage heap of history.

I will absolutely be exposing my daughter to Disney Princesses. We already watch Frozen and Rapunzel with her.

But then again, I'm also buying my daughter pink clothing. I know, I'm a terrible person for gender assigning my child.

As a father of a daughter, and a rather jock-like father at that... I've tried and TRIED to get her away from pink, and princesses and all manner of girly things, and tried to get her to play with bugs and dirt and trucks, etc.... It doesn't really work. It's a good day if I can get her to play in the dirt/mud in a pink "princess dress"

And it's ridiculous what becomes "princess" clothing. Grey sweater with purple stars? "it's my princess sweater" Tye dye shirt with an American flag on it? "Princess flag shirt"

@cincey: OK, so if a parent needs to tell a child "Ursula isnt bad just because she's overweight, so don't believe that all overweight people are evil" and "hardly anyone alive will end up looking like Ariel, so don't be worried when you grow up if you're not perfect in every way", at some point I'd think you'd have to ask yourself whether those movies are worth showing to the children in the first place. There are plenty of other kids movies, good ones too, that don't reinforce these stereotypes.

 jasper76 wrote:
OK, so if a parent needs to tell a child "Ursula isnt bad just because she's overweight, so don't believe that all overweight people are evil" and "hardly anyone alive will end up looking like Ariel, so don't be worried when you grow up if you're not perfect in every way", at some point I'd think you'd have to ask yourself whether those movies are worth showing to the children in the first place. There are plenty of other kids movies, good ones too, that don't reinforce these stereotypes.

If that's what you're taking away from those movies you're missing huge swathes of the point.

It's hard not to take those points from those movies. They're in just about every Disney movie that depicts human women (at least that I've seen, maybe things have changed).

Good people are beautiful and have perfect figures.

Bad people are fat and ugly.

I'm not saying Disney invented these stereotypes, but they reinforce them. Conditioning is a real thing.

(Anyway I am coming across as being more exercised about Disney than I am in real life. I don't have kids, I generally don't consume Disney cartoon entertainment)

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:


And it's ridiculous what becomes "princess" clothing. Grey sweater with purple stars? "it's my princess sweater" Tye dye shirt with an American flag on it? "Princess flag shirt"

I can't wait.

Although I know for certain that Clone Wars / Rebels will definitely be on our Daddy/Daughter watch list.

 cincydooley wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:

So you don't think children absorb and take to heart images they see in movies???

Sure they do.

And that's why you fething parent.

Not that tough a concept.

It always amuses me when parents think it's Disneys and Dreamworks responsibility to raise their kids

 jasper76 wrote:
It's hard not to take those points from those movies. They're in just about every Disney movie that depicts human women (at least that I've seen, maybe things have changed).

Good people are beautiful and have perfect figures.

Bad people are fat and ugly.

I'm not saying Disney invented these stereotypes, but they reinforce them. Conditioning is a real thing.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but you clearly haven't seen enough Disney movies.

Jafar
Snow White's Step Mother
Mother Gothel
Gaston
Hans
Shan Yu
Maleficent.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Aesop the God Awful wrote:

It always amuses me when parents think it's Disneys and Dreamworks responsibility to raise their kids

Spot on, sir.

 cincydooley wrote:


I'm not saying you're wrong, but you clearly haven't seen enough Disney movies.

Jafar
Snow White's Step Mother
Mother Gothel
Gaston
Hans
Shan Yu
Maleficent.

I looked these up as you're correct, I haven't seen most of them, and I agree that with the exception of Jafar, which is a pretty clear Arab stereotype, there's nothing particulary wrong with the image of these villains.

 jasper76 wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:


I'm not saying you're wrong, but you clearly haven't seen enough Disney movies.

Jafar
Snow White's Step Mother
Mother Gothel
Gaston
Hans
Shan Yu
Maleficent.

I looked these up as you're correct, I haven't seen most of them, and I agree that with the exception of Jafar, which is a pretty clear Arab stereotype, there's nothing particulary wrong with the image of these villains.

Not to mention a chubby father is present in a number of Disney movies.

Or a chubby good sidekick.

I mean, have you actually ever seen a Disney movie, or did you just read an angry article about Disney princesses on the web?

Regardless, it all comes down to making sure you parent your effin kid and talk to them about the media they're consuming.

if you tell me that what he wears on his head makes Jafar an arab stereotype, I will rip my damned eyes out.

I haven't seen many Disney movies in a while, so I'm out of the loop, and admit things have probably changed.

I did see Wall-E, which IIRC did make fun of fat kids.

 jasper76 wrote:
I haven't seen many Disney movies in a while, so I'm out of the loop, and admit things have probably changed.

I did see Wall-E, which IIRC did make fun of fat kids.

Wow....you completely missed the point of THAT movie, eh?

I'm not talking about the point of the movie. I'm talking about how it depicts fat kids.

I'm just going to bash my head against a brick wall now.
California, everyone.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jasper76 wrote:
I'm not talking about the point of the movie. I'm talking about how it depicts fat kids.

I don't like the way Schindler's List depicts Nazis. They should be treated just like everyone else!
i don't like how *Movie* depicts *Demographic*! They should be treated just like everyone else!

Verviedi, you just made my point. You just compared overweight people to Nazis.

 jasper76 wrote:
I'm not talking about the point of the movie. I'm talking about how it depicts fat kids.

You understand it's critiquing on consumption and sedentary lifestyles driven by a focus on technology and reliance upon it, right.......?

Right. Adults and young adults are sophisticated enough to get that point.

Young children are not (without guidance, and I think even with guidance they wouldn't understand the point). All they see are an ocean of fat people in a spaceship who are lazy, constantly feeding, and stupid, and its OK to laugh at them.

*BANG.BANG.BANG.* damn it my wall broke.

Man, I'm fat and I would laugh.

The Shruded Lord: you are suggesting that overweight people should be treated differently than everyone else. I don't agree with you.

 jasper76 wrote:
Verviedi, you just made my point. You just compared overweight people to Nazis.

False. I was comparing a negatively portrayed demographic with another negatively portrayed demographic, to show how stupid the idea of everyone being treated equally in movies SPECIFICALLY TARGETED at an issue causing or being caused by said demographic.

All I am saying is that these images inform a childs view of the world, and can lead to self esteem issues.

 jasper76 wrote:
Right. Adults and young adults are sophisticated enough to get that point.

Young children are not (without guidance, and I think even with guidance they wouldn't understand the point). All they see are an ocean of fat people in a spaceship who are lazy, constantly feeding, and stupid, and its OK to laugh at them.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say you haven't actually every watched any movies with a 3-8 year old, would that be correct?

Young kids take very different things away from movies than adults, and do far less generalizing and stereotyping than older children. and if a parent was concerned about the depiction of futuristic animated fat people, then they should discuss it with their children.

Your SJW is strong today, sir.

 jasper76 wrote:
All I am saying is that these images inform a childs view of the world, and can lead to self esteem issues.

Self esteem is irrelevant.
I would rather have children earn their self esteem than have all the children who failed classes write good things about themselves and get an auto-A.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Vasconcellos

 jasper76 wrote:
All I am saying is that these images inform a childs view of the world, and can lead to self esteem issues.

What I'm saying is that they don't nearly as much as you think, especially for the demographics these films are aimed at, and that it's a parent's job to interpret those images for their children and not allow the movie/media to parent their children.

Verviedi wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
All I am saying is that these images inform a childs view of the world, and can lead to self esteem issues.

Self esteem is irrelevant.
I would rather have children earn their self esteem than have all the children who failed classes write good things about themselves and get an auto-A.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Vasconcellos

So you don't think that if a young child is bombarded with images of fat people being gross, evil, lazy, and/or stupid (I admit these depictions may be changing), and then they develop a weight problem, they could think that they are gross, evil, lazy, and/or stupid ???

If anything, Disney villains tell kids that old people are bad.

To the topic on hand:
As an avid Disney fan, I say go for it.

My daughters love Disney, much like I did when I was a child, and while the Princesses are probably their favorites, they enjoy just about every character that there is (both male and female). Case in point: my youngest, while excited to meet the Princesses, loves Mickey Mouse big time and she wouldn't let go of him when we met him at Disney World last Christmas, it was adorable. If Disney makes a character with special needs, it would work because they would make it work. Not to mention, they have always taken consideration of people with disabilities (as evident if you have visited a park before) so I know they could do it right.

 cincydooley wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
All I am saying is that these images inform a childs view of the world, and can lead to self esteem issues.

What I'm saying is that they don't nearly as much as you think, especially for the demographics these films are aimed at, and that it's a parent's job to interpret those images for their children and not allow the movie/media to parent their children.

I would add, if they do they tend to outgrow it. I don't know many 20yr Olds that think theyare princesses. Except themail girl across the hall.....

he he he. I am fat. and a teenager. you know, i go to school. with 'peers'. and I'm fat. you see where this is going right?
the purpose of parents is to prepare their children. ft people ARE treated differently, and perhaps should be. it has motivated me to lose weight. unfortunately, humanity sucks. we're terrible, terrible beings. skinny, attractive people WILL be treated differently to fat people. this IS reality. claiming that the whole "skinny people" thing builds unrealisitic expectations, it false. fat people WILL always be worse off than skinny people. just like short people will always be worse off than tall people. now, i need another wall to bash my head on, Jafar a stereotypical arab, damn.