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 Crimson Devil wrote:
I could have sworn I read somewhere FFG could still use the Warfare rules for other properties.

Like Star Wars Imperial Assault? I'd buy that for a dollar (or more like $100)

 Necros wrote:

 Crimson Devil wrote:
I could have sworn I read somewhere FFG could still use the Warfare rules for other properties.

Like Star Wars Imperial Assault? I'd buy that for a dollar (or more like $100)

Is that really the same ruleset?

I meant use the minis for a skirmishy wargame

Wasn't Imperial Assault supposed to be able to be played as a wargame? I seem to remember having read something like that when it was announced.

On topic, I think that Dust Tactics is an amazing game for when you don't want to go through the hassle of a wargame. The fact that you can set up, play, and pack everything away in very little time and storage does not take up a lot of space shouldn't be underestimated.
However, choosing to axe Warfare when there clearly was demand for a wargame ruleset was a poor decision, obviously. It's the dangers of having one figure head, I guess. But it should have been obvious that there was a demand and a need for a good wargame ruleset of somesort. Hell, just imagine Dust with the Bolt Action ruleset!

Concerning wether or not it is dying... in Austria it has been dead for all intents and purposes for years now. No game shop carries it, you can hardly get anything through amazon or any retailer that isn't UK or overseas based. Next to no one ever heard about it.
It's a shame, really. The miniatures are great, it's decently priced and Tactics is a really good game.

Are the rules similar in any way? (SW: Assault vs. Dust I mean)

 Korraz wrote:
Wasn't Imperial Assault supposed to be able to be played as a wargame? I seem to remember having read something like that when it was announced.

SW:Imperial Assault has 2 'modes' of play given in the box. There is the Descent/RPG style story mode campaign, and a 'skirmish' mode for one off games that uses most of the main rules, with some changes and omitting the RPG style bits.

 malfred wrote:
Are the rules similar in any way? (SW: Assault vs. Dust I mean)

Yes they are similar. You can get both on FFG's website, and they are both a hot mess. Love the figures, but the rules set itself for both games are gawdawful complex.

I'm starting the thought that the 100.00 price is to hire some kids to playtest the games, and give them some technical advice on why its garbage to write complex rules sets for simple board/ gridsquare battlefield games.




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 Korraz wrote:
Wasn't Imperial Assault supposed to be able to be played as a wargame? I seem to remember having read something like that when it was announced.

On topic, I think that Dust Tactics is an amazing game for when you don't want to go through the hassle of a wargame. The fact that you can set up, play, and pack everything away in very little time and storage does not take up a lot of space shouldn't be underestimated.
However, choosing to axe Warfare when there clearly was demand for a wargame ruleset was a poor decision, obviously. It's the dangers of having one figure head, I guess. But it should have been obvious that there was a demand and a need for a good wargame ruleset of somesort. Hell, just imagine Dust with the Bolt Action ruleset!

Concerning wether or not it is dying... in Austria it has been dead for all intents and purposes for years now. No game shop carries it, you can hardly get anything through amazon or any retailer that isn't UK or overseas based. Next to no one ever heard about it.
It's a shame, really. The miniatures are great, it's decently priced and Tactics is a really good game.

Theres no reason why you can't play it as a wargame. In fact, after I can scrounge up the opening costs, I'm planning on gathering up a few squads of stormtroopers and Rebels. I'm starting to wonder why they are not crossing over figures for the RPG's, as well. Wouldn't hurt sales a bit to 3d rend up the opening figures from the RPG's.

I know I'd buy up a few.

It was pretty sizable in my area. About 10 to 12 players. Then it went down faster than the Hindenburg.

It was gaining traction near me at one of the FLGSs. They had a Dust night and everything two years ago or so, but now it's dead.

 Grot 6 wrote:

 malfred wrote:
Are the rules similar in any way? (SW: Assault vs. Dust I mean)

Yes they are similar. You can get both on FFG's website, and they are both a hot mess. Love the figures, but the rules set itself for both games are gawdawful complex.

I'm starting the thought that the 100.00 price is to hire some kids to playtest the games, and give them some technical advice on why its garbage to write complex rules sets for simple board/ gridsquare battlefield games.

Sedition Wars is better penance for this sort of thing. Even the basic resolution mechanic of SedWars will have them pulling their hair out.

By comparison, Dust isn't nearly as terrible.

Dust is dead. Who is even left to distribute it? What FLGS is daffy enough to order more stock?

Too bad because I really liked the concept and the figs I have from FFG were very nice.

DUST is huge here if you need a place to play. They even have enough interest and folks playing to hold tourneys. It isn't dead everywhere.

I've been told a local shop is clearing it out (or at least on sale).

I'll have to keep an eye out.

Boss GreenNutz wrote:
DUST is huge here if you need a place to play. They even have enough interest and folks playing to hold tourneys. It isn't dead everywhere.

Where is your 'here'?

I have to admit... I don't play the game but I would really fancy it.... only been aware of it for a few months and would hate to think it was going to die out before I had even got my hands on some of those models... which... IMHO are glorious!

I am in no ways well informed but scanning briefly back through this thread.. it would seem to be a real shame that the supporters and "pledgers" will have to suffer because of a cock up / disagreement with 2 supplier companies & the creator....

Anyway.... hopefully I can get my butt in gear and get involved soon!

 MagosBiff90 wrote:

Anyway.... hopefully I can get my butt in gear and get involved soon!

Don't. At the least, you can get the models knowing there will invariably be only one variant (Tactics) to play, if any. But I wouldn't waste much money - so get those fire sale prices, if you really want them, but this game is dead, dead, dead.

One or two holdout stores where Paolo diehards reside won't keep the turmoil from ruining the franchise. With Battlefield doomed due to the DS/BF split, and Warfare dead in the water and Tactics being a fringe game from a company unlikely to get a new distributor, enter at your own risk.

I disagree. The models are nice and the deals/discounts/clearances make them very cheap for the amount that you get at this point. As long as he goes in eyes wide open knowing that even if he finds or starts a local scene that it will likely eventually fail, I say go for it.

 warboss wrote:
I disagree. The models are nice and the deals/discounts/clearances make them very cheap for the amount that you get at this point. As long as he goes in eyes wide open knowing that even if he finds or starts a local scene that it will likely eventually fail, I say go for it.

I did mention that. But honestly, if I spent any money on it at all, it would be for the vehicles/walkers. Those are at least hard plastic and pretty good detail wise. Would Ork and AdMech up nicely or serve for fun Weird Wars games for Bolt Action. So, plenty of use, but Dust as a gaming franchise is dead.

Are the infantry and vehicles different plastics?

I'm planning to pick up some of the walkers for conversions for the admech army I'll probably never even halfway finish. Some of the axis mechs would make good proxies for the dunecrawlers, and the lighter mechs for ironstriders


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And yeah the infantry is more of a soft rubbery kind of action figure plastic, but the vehicles are hard plastic. Even though it's cheap rubbery plastic I always thought the infantry still had nice detail though.

 malfred wrote:
Are the infantry and vehicles different plastics?

Yea, the early run infantry was a bendy plastic, which was really not great, but was cheap enough to not be a major issue. The later run have gradually become harder plastics, I have heard. The vehicles are a hard plastic and pretty high quality for the price.

 Necros wrote:
I'm planning to pick up some of the walkers for conversions for the admech army I'll probably never even halfway finish. Some of the axis mechs would make good proxies for the dunecrawlers, and the lighter mechs for ironstriders

Yea, the Allied and Axis Light Walkers would be great Ironstriders with the right bits. The Axis quadrupedal heavies definitely would be solid Dunecrawler proxies, but even some of the bipedal ones would work too.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
... but Dust as a gaming franchise is dead.

You keep saying that over and over again, but what do you base that on?

To me, a game is dead when A) nobody is playing it any more, and B) no new products is produced. Neither is true for Dust. Sure, it's not as hot and popular as it was 1-2 years ago (mostly due to the Epic Kickstarter fail), but there's still people playing Dust of all flavors. Also, Dust Studio has the rights to all things Dust, meaning they can use and produce things for Tactics, Battlefield and Warfare as they see fit. They have publicly stated that they don't have time/energy to put on Warfare, which is why they fairly recently licenced it out.

From the official webpage (worldofdust.net):
"Warfare players can rest easy, knowing that their preferred form of the game will continue to be supported. Paolo has given Warfare over to be fan-created and controlled. Gregory Withrow and the other Warfare players in his team have some awesome things planned for Warfare! Warfare 2.0 is on its way, along with Ad Hoc Platoons.

Dust Tactics fans, don't worry - Paolo has said that a new rulebook for Dust 3.0 is in the works, as well as new cards, so you will not be forgotten!"

And just over the last few days Dust Studio have shown a couple of June releases on their FB page: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Dust-Tactics/268690999838808

So, again, how do you define "dead game", Mr em_en_oh_pee?

Sorry to hop back in....... well.. I am waiting on the outcome of a couple of E-Bay bids.... but hopefully I will be the owner of a couple of the SSA Mech walkers..... and I think I will leave it there... I will 40k them up a bit and put them in a diorama or something.... as mentioned by a few people previous... they are great looking models... just a shame theres a lot of negativity (maybe deservedly) about the game ..... plus... no one I know plays it anyway! lol

Cheers All,

A game that isn't, or won't be actively supported, or is currently undergoing its own death spiral.

Dust was already headed into a death spiral before this, but it could have been avoided. This latest bout of controversy nudged them into the vortex of that death spiral.

You may want to argue semantics, but Dust has practically written own own death certificate. Going through 3 different publishers all with varying levels of trouble. Way too much leftover stock on shelves for the retailers and distributors that gave them not one, but two chances. A public kickstarter failing, and even more public legal threats, only to back off said threats. No one will touch the game again business-wise.

Like any game, there will always be players and models floating about. I think there's still VOR and Starship Troopers minis still being used, but those two games are absolutely dead by any measure.

Dust may pull itself out of the abyss, but only with amazing leadership, vision, and business acumen, all of which are clearly in short supply for this project. Even Dust itself is not an original idea.

MaGoff wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
... but Dust as a gaming franchise is dead.

You keep saying that over and over again, but what do you base that on?

To me, a game is dead when A) nobody is playing it any more, and B) no new products is produced. Neither is true for Dust. Sure, it's not as hot and popular as it was 1-2 years ago (mostly due to the Epic Kickstarter fail), but there's still people playing Dust of all flavors. Also, Dust Studio has the rights to all things Dust, meaning they can use and produce things for Tactics, Battlefield and Warfare as they see fit. They have publicly stated that they don't have time/energy to put on Warfare, which is why they fairly recently licenced it out.

From the official webpage (worldofdust.net):
"Warfare players can rest easy, knowing that their preferred form of the game will continue to be supported. Paolo has given Warfare over to be fan-created and controlled. Gregory Withrow and the other Warfare players in his team have some awesome things planned for Warfare! Warfare 2.0 is on its way, along with Ad Hoc Platoons.

Dust Tactics fans, don't worry - Paolo has said that a new rulebook for Dust 3.0 is in the works, as well as new cards, so you will not be forgotten!"

And just over the last few days Dust Studio have shown a couple of June releases on their FB page: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Dust-Tactics/268690999838808

So, again, how do you define "dead game", Mr em_en_oh_pee?

Warfare is to be "fan-created and controlled". So, this is as dead as Necromunda or Epic. Yes, people play it, but it is no longer officially supported and entirely reliant on the fans to produce content. Any game without official, published content and material support is dead.

Battlefield seems like it will be a casualty of the Battlefront / Dust Studio split, since it was a product of the former and IP of the latter. Can't imagine they will continue supporting it after the Kickstarter debacle is resolved (whenever that is). So, without official, published content and material support, also dead.

Tactics now gets to return to "fringe game" status. Paolo has gone through three distributors now - AEG, FFG, and BF. Word is he will just be distributing himself now. So Tactics isn't dead, but I question is availability. Plus, it was never a huge deal in the first place. Dust came to the forefront when Warfare released and Battlefield breathed a bit of life into it once BF made it clear they weren't really interested in Warfare. Plus, that game is going to have a miserable time going when you realize you can get 1.0, 1.5, 2.0 and eventually 3.0 rules depending on what box you buy and from who.

So there, Tactics isn't really dead, per se. Just back to the fringe boardgame that it was for years before Warfare. Feel free to pick that up, if it is your cup of tea. I will continue to lament the passing of Warfare from the company who did it best - FFG and the overall demise of the franchise as a real contender among wargames.

Hey,Paolo, is that you? One post, all that background info..... hmmmm........

Whats going on with that court case again?

What's going on with that KS project again?

Why are you AT43ing that game?

Why Sockmonkey it, why not just join the conversation?

Dust is definitely dead:
- Existing product under liquidation.
- No new product under development.
- No potential future sales that drive profit for retail.

The only reason new players are buying Dust is because the models are dirt cheap, so they're great for conversions for other stuff. Not to actually play the game.

FFG has set a price point for Dust that is roughly 50% of what the old MSRP was. And they hold that point. Buyers now expect (and rightly presume) such pricing to be "fair" for Dust product. Dust cannot possibly launch new product into retail, because there is no margin.

It's dead, try not to confuse the twitches of rigor mortis for life.

 Grot 6 wrote:
Hey,Paolo, is that you? One post, all that background info..... hmmmm........

Whats going on with that court case again?

What's going on with that KS project again?

Why are you AT43ing that game?

Why Sockmonkey it, why not just join the conversation?

:-) No, I'm not Paolo. I just read stuff on the interwebz, and now I found this thread on a forum I don't normally visit. I read some posts with opinions that I believe are not true, and I just fealt like pointing that out. That's all.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Dust is definitely dead:
- Existing product under liquidation.
- No new product under development.
- No potential future sales that drive profit for retail.

The only reason new players are buying Dust is because the models are dirt cheap, so they're great for conversions for other stuff. Not to actually play the game.

FFG has set a price point for Dust that is roughly 50% of what the old MSRP was. And they hold that point. Buyers now expect (and rightly presume) such pricing to be "fair" for Dust product. Dust cannot possibly launch new product into retail, because there is no margin.

It's dead, try not to confuse the twitches of rigor mortis for life.

Did you read the interview with Paolo Parente on BoLS (dated 6th May 2015)? What's that about "No new product under development" again?

You can disagree with my opinion all day. Won't change the facts, which is that Paolo did a real number on his franchise, isn't actively supporting two of the three systems for said franchise, and will be parting ways with his third distributor soon after a painful Kickstarter (on top of a bad, slow, unresponsive move to BF).

In the end, player faith has generally been shaken. I ran Dust-War.com, I was a playtester and contributor for Warfare, and I can tell you I will not or ever again purchase anything Dust-related. It has been utterly mismanaged for quite a while now and I have zero faith in Paolo, Dust Studios, or any future distributor bold/brave enough to take on this damaged franchise.

I saw that Paolo ran his mouth, but I'm sorry that I'm not familiar with Dust to the point that I would have seen what was new. Which pictures showed the new product currently under development? Was it the wishlisting for something to happen a few years from now?

Paolo isn't independently wealthy to the point that he can fund development, tooling, production and distribution of new product. And it's not like anybody would give him money via Kickstarter after the latest debacle.