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SemperMortis wrote:
Have they officially confirmed this was another misunderstanding between the western world and the Religion of Peace?

You could try reading the thread and realizing that you're railing against Islam in a thread about something that seemingly has nothing to do with Islam at all. A good way of avoiding to come across as a narrow-minded bigot is to not do that.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
@ AlmightyWalrus

For starters, accept that there is a serious issue with Islam's teachings.

And that is all I'm going to say, because I'm seriously not going to recieve a visit from the police over this like so many others in this fethed up country.

This is the part where I ask how much you actually know about Islam, and how much you just think you know. It's also the part where I point out that you've deflected the question multiple times. You're not doing a very good impression for someone who apparently knows the truth.

What do I know about Islam?

I've read the Koran. And I was shocked at what is actually in there.

Try surah (chapter) 9 ayat (verse) 29 for starters.

Still lots of speculation on motive. Interior Minister believes this was a lone wolf extremist inspired attack, but not under the direct control of ISIS.

http://www.thelocal.de/20160723/lone-munich-shooter-kills-nine-commits-suicide

 Future War Cultist wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
@ AlmightyWalrus

For starters, accept that there is a serious issue with Islam's teachings.

And that is all I'm going to say, because I'm seriously not going to recieve a visit from the police over this like so many others in this fethed up country.

This is the part where I ask how much you actually know about Islam, and how much you just think you know. It's also the part where I point out that you've deflected the question multiple times. You're not doing a very good impression for someone who apparently knows the truth.

What do I know about Islam?

I've read the Koran. And I was shocked at what is actually in there.

Try 9:29 for starters.

Which is where the "interpretation" part comes in. Define "fight", for example. What constitutes "fighting" in 9:29? There's certainly parallels to be drawn to Matthew 28:19 in the Bible, with the whole "convert everyone who doesn't follow Religion X". You could certainly interpret 9:29 as "kill the living daylights out of everyone who isn't Muslim until they yield", but even then it's only one of multiple interpretations. You're, ironically enough, reading the Quran as if you were a hardline islamist, rather than someone interested in possible meanings of the text itself.

Can we leave theology and text interpretations for another thread?

SemperMortis wrote:
Have they officially confirmed this was another misunderstanding between the western world and the Religion of Peace?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36874497

The gunman who killed nine people in Munich was obsessed with mass shootings and had an obvious link to Norwegian mass murderer Anders Behring Breivik, German police say.

His shooting of course having happened 5 years ago, to the day.

 reds8n wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
Have they officially confirmed this was another misunderstanding between the western world and the Religion of Peace?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36874497

The gunman who killed nine people in Munich was obsessed with mass shootings and had an obvious link to Norwegian mass murderer Anders Behring Breivik, German police say.

His shooting of course having happened 5 years ago, to the day.

Making this an even more dark and dismal affair. (if deliberately planned for this date)

@ AlmightyWalrus

So how would they get unbelievers to pay the jizyah, as commanded by that verse? Jizyah being being protection money that the people of the book (Christians and Jews) are expected to pay to Muslims? Should the believers just keep nagging them for it? Or maybe the believers should keep mooning the unbelievers until their poor eyes can't take it anymore and they cough up the cash? Or maybe the believers should viciously and mercilessly put the unbelievers to the sword until they're defeated and have no choice? What do you think, I ask sarcastically

Now in your attempt to try and show me up, you've just dug yourself into a serious hole. I've said that there is a serious problem with Islam's teachings. And I pointed out a verse that calls for believers to fight unbelievers as an example. And you've just asked how do you interpret what fight means in the context of that verse.

Well a lot of people, including some Islamic scholars, are saying that in the context of that verse, fight literally means fight. Fight and mutilate and kill. And the Koran isn't clear on it wants the believers to do (unless you look at the other verses). So do you want to tell me now that there isn't a problem with Islam's teachings when you've just literally pointed one out yourself?

How about you Gordon Shumway? When I said that there's a serious problem with Islam's teachings you said that that was paranoid bs. How about now?

I'll be happy to talk theology all day any day, having extensively studied it throughout school and university. Bring it.

If it was on topic then great. But it isn't. So drop it.

EDIT: Mod told me to stop, so I will.

I personally would like to see a thread on that. We have some intelligent people on here. I believe it would be a good discussion if it could be done politely.

I think we have tried. The combo of anti-Islam prejudice from some people combined with the anti-any-religion prejudice from others, as well as the general problems we have in any thread that revolves around the intersection of politics and religion, usually make them die fairly quickly.

That's too bad.

Rainbow Dash wrote:So when do we start talking about Islamic Terrorism?

Rainbow Dash wrote:Of course it's related.
You don't have this many attacks in such a short amount of time and it not related.
It's always related.

Rainbow Dash wrote:Of course it was Islamic terrorism, I don't even have to ask anymore.

It was not, in fact, Islamic terrorism.

(CNN)The teen gunman who killed nine people in a shooting rampage in Munich on Friday was a mentally troubled individual who had extensively researched spree killings and had no apparent links to ISIS, police said.

Speaking at a press conference in the southern German city Saturday, police officials said the 18-year-old lone attacker -- who died of a self-inflicted gunshot wound -- had no political motivations, and no references to religion had been found in documents in his home.
Rather, investigators searching his belongings found numerous documents on rampage killings, including a book entitled "Rampage in My Mind -- Why Students Kill," said Robert Heimberger, president of the Bavarian State Criminal Police Office.

Police said there was also likely to be significance in the timing of the attack, five years to the day since Anders Behring Breivik killed 77 people in Norway in 2011, many of them attendees at a youth camp.

Rainbow Dash wrote:If I am wrong I will sincerely apologize.

Here's what I got of the guy:

* He was Iranian/German, second/third generation it seems (in the video where some guy shouts abuse in Bavarian at him his german sounds Hochdeutsch with no accent), no idea about religion
* In the same video he complains (as far as I understood it) about being bullied and he sees himself as a German (he says that in the video)
* He seems to have been in psychiatric care for depression (or related issues)
* He was bullied and seems to have blamed foreigners for that (he's of mixed heritage so could look turkish/non-white and draw attention for that from Neonazi donkey-caves)
* In the video he also said that he had to buy a gun for "protection" and was against foreigners coming here
* He grew up in low income housing (Harz 4/Hasenbergl (less affluent neighbourhood here in Munich, higher amount of immigrants, just north of the shopping mall where the shooting happened) was mentioned in that video) so it could be a rougher upbringing
* It seems he used a hacked (or otherwise obtained) account to lure people to a McDonalds there (offering to buy people something)
* he mostly shot young people (if I remember correctly the oldest was 20) of foreign background (could be he lured them there with the McD offer)
* he had some sort of fascination Anders Breivik and, it seems, others like him. I think it was more about mass shootings, no idea about how right wing radicalized he was but it also seems he was at least on not so good terms with foreigners.

The video is a bit confusing (with all the people shouting), so that's just my interpretation.

yellowfever wrote:
That's too bad.

No, trust me... it's for the better.

Mario wrote:
Here's what I got of the guy:

* He was Iranian/German, second/third generation it seems (in the video where some guy shouts abuse in Bavarian at him his german sounds Hochdeutsch with no accent), no idea about religion
* In the same video he complains (as far as I understood it) about being bullied and he sees himself as a German (he says that in the video)
* He seems to have been in psychiatric care for depression (or related issues)
* He was bullied and seems to have blamed foreigners for that (he's of mixed heritage so could look turkish/non-white and draw attention for that from Neonazi donkey-caves)
* In the video he also said that he had to buy a gun for "protection" and was against foreigners coming here
* He grew up in low income housing (Harz 4/Hasenbergl (less affluent neighbourhood here in Munich, higher amount of immigrants, just north of the shopping mall where the shooting happened) was mentioned in that video) so it could be a rougher upbringing
* It seems he used a hacked (or otherwise obtained) account to lure people to a McDonalds there (offering to buy people something)
* he mostly shot young people (if I remember correctly the oldest was 20) of foreign background (could be he lured them there with the McD offer)
* he had some sort of fascination Anders Breivik and, it seems, others like him. I think it was more about mass shootings, no idea about how right wing radicalized he was but it also seems he was at least on not so good terms with foreigners.

The video is a bit confusing (with all the people shouting), so that's just my interpretation.

Yep, that's pretty much what every news report I've read has to say.

In a very depressing way, it's a bit refreshing to have just a run-of-the-mill crazy person do something like this devoid of political motive, though I understand it make it harder for some people among us to rationalize it because they don't have a group of people to instantly place the blame on. I'm sure this is a very trying time for them.

Waiting for the bully outrage

From the Sun

Killer Ali David Sonbody, 18, launched an attack on adolescents in the fast food branch - killing eight youngsters aged 13 to 20 and one 45-year-old before turning the gun on himself

What a fething piece of filth.

 Breotan wrote:
From the Sun

Killer Ali David Sonbody, 18, launched an attack on adolescents in the fast food branch - killing eight youngsters aged 13 to 20 and one 45-year-old before turning the gun on himself

What a fething piece of filth.

As it seems, he is getting what he wanted - all the media attention that there is, questions about his life, the "Why?"...

If he was really inspired by Breivik, it's actually interesting that he killed himself. Because Breivik is still alive writing pompous pamphlets from prison and can have his smug grin in the news once in a while. This guy will soon be forgotten, hopefully. Maybe his plan had been to stay alive, too, but then he realized what kind of monster he really had become and decided spontaneously to off himself...? We will never know.

PS: The fact that he apparently screamed "I'm German" also fits in here. I guess he wanted to be as sure as possible that this doesn't get filed under run-of-the-mill islamic terrorism, but rather under his "own story", if you know what I mean.

He supposedly threw a tantrum in school, threatening to kill his peers.
http://news.sky.com/story/chilling-revenge-warning-of-munich-gunman-10511000

Time for some facts:

He was born in Germany
He was obsessed with mass shootings - plenty of material on that subject from good old US of A
He wasn't religious

So, can all the bigots please accept that their "repression" for their views is in fact justified because they jumped to a conclusion formed entirely on their own racist hatred.

Now for a whole new can of worms: gun control

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36877388

Senior German politicians have called for stricter controls on the sale of guns in response to the shooting attack in Munich on Friday.

Vice-Chancellor Sigmar Gabriel said everything possible should be done to limit access to deadly weapons.

David Sonboly, 18, shot dead nine people before killing himself. He had a Glock pistol and more than 300 bullets.

Interior Minister Thomas de Maiziere, who visited the scene of the shootings, said he planned to review gun laws.

Spiegel.de reported that the attacker's Glock 17 was a re-activated theater play weapon from Slovakia. Apparently he used the so-called "Darknet" via software like the Tor browser to get into contact with potential sellers.

The German federal criminal bureau is stating that illegal trade with re-activated weapons or prop weapons modified to be working firearms is on the rise.

I don't know what else they can really do. The weapon used had its serial number filed off so it can't have been legally acquired.

So we have some clues about how he got a hold of a pistol now, but I'm wondering if he trained on it secretly beforehand or fired it for the first time that day. It sounds like being able to hit so many people, killing quite a few of them, would be the result of at least SOME training on a firearm, but I can hardly imagine there's a spot in Munich or the surrounding area where you can train with an illegal firearm without somebody noticing.

Maybe he practiced with something at least remotely comparable, like a blowback airsoft pistol or something?

Edit: German newspapers also running the "violent computer games" angle now. They interviewed other guys who played CS:GO with him and who agreed that he was a weirdo. Apparently he called himself "Amokläufer" [amok runner?] as a nickname, praised previous shooters in Germany, spouted violent racism against Turks and Jews and was generally a full-on donkey-cave. The interviewee said they were happy when they lost contact to him a while ago.

Its pretty easy to get hits at close range. He could easily have learned to handle the weapon 'dry' and only fired it for the first time on his rampage.

The video of him missing with 3-4 shots outside the MacDonalds seems to suggest that he was quite a poor shot at least.

 Silent Puffin? wrote:
Its pretty easy to get hits at close range. He could easily have learned to handle the weapon 'dry' and only fired it for the first time on his rampage.

The video of him missing with 3-4 shots outside the MacDonalds seems to suggest that he was quite a poor shot at least.

As a German, I have limited experience with firearms, but some friends in the US were nice enough to take me for a day at the range with Glocks, AKs, AR-15s and .44s. I think somebody who has never felt the real recoil of a gun (especially a pistol) before would necessarily be quite a bad shot in such a high-adrenaline situation, but he managed to cause quite some damage.

 Witzkatz wrote:

As a German, I have limited experience with firearms, but some friends in the US were nice enough to take me for a day at the range with Glocks, AKs, AR-15s and .44s. I think somebody who has never felt the real recoil of a gun (especially a pistol) before would necessarily be quite a bad shot in such a high-adrenaline situation, but he managed to cause quite some damage.

You don't need accuracy at point blank range.

 Witzkatz wrote:
As a German, I have limited experience with firearms, but some friends in the US were nice enough to take me for a day at the range with Glocks, AKs, AR-15s and .44s. I think somebody who has never felt the real recoil of a gun (especially a pistol) before would necessarily be quite a bad shot in such a high-adrenaline situation, but he managed to cause quite some damage.

The recoil on a Glock 17 is entirely manageable, even for a novice shooter. The Glock 17 has a magazine capacity of 17 rounds so with a couple of magazines and a little determination, a novice shooter can deal significant carnage in a close-range environment.

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 Witzkatz wrote:
As a German, I have limited experience with firearms, but some friends in the US were nice enough to take me for a day at the range with Glocks, AKs, AR-15s and .44s. I think somebody who has never felt the real recoil of a gun (especially a pistol) before would necessarily be quite a bad shot in such a high-adrenaline situation, but he managed to cause quite some damage.

The recoil on a Glock 17 is entirely manageable, even for a novice shooter. The Glock 17 has a magazine capacity of 17 rounds so with a couple of magazines and a little determination, a novice shooter can deal significant carnage in a close-range environment.

I shot a few magazines with a Glock .40 S&W and found it surprisingly hard to hit anything beyond 30 feet with some kind of accuracy. But I have to agree with you and Silent Puffin in the end, at very close range and that many rounds, it's rather easy to hit surprised victims, I guess.

I find it interesting how the intial angle on this whole thing was "islamistic terrorism", but lots of people, also on this board, had some gut feeling that something was different, and were right in the end. Overall I find it worrying that this could be a first step towards open anti-immgration terror; that seemed to be at least a partial motivation for this guy's violence, somewhere next to his anxiety and depression and probable sociopathic tendencies. Some of the more openly aggressive anti-immigration groups, including Neo-Nazis, might feel that their time is coming now.

Fire a few in the general direction at people then point towards to the exit(s)