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 Compel wrote:
The conversation was jumping all over the place a bit there

Yeah, one thing I'm not a big fan of with the Dakka forum re-org is that people seem reluctant to make more threads about a single game in the "Misc." forums. I will be unusually positive and assume it's out of courtesy for others and not wanting to split discussion and end up spamming all the other games for a conversation that's going to peter out after a couple of posts.

On the core topic of "are the PHR underpowered," I don't really have enough experience with the game to really say but I did see that mis-reading of the rule that I myself was doing until I was pointed in the direction of that one sentence in the rulebook. Seemed relevant to share.

I did make the thread as a general discussion thread

Ty for clarifying they form groups together.

So active scanning isn't at 4 like I said, but it can easily be at 3 from one group.

For example:
SR9 Pathfinder battlegroup (274pts)
2 x Gargoyle - 64pts - L
2 x Charybdis - 70pts - L
1 x Hydra - 140pts - M

Point still stands though, you can be detected easily and lit up, Detector could let the following list for UCM scan 4 times

SR9 Pathfinder battlegroup (276pts)
2 x Lima - 74pts - L
2 x Toulon - 70pts - L
1 x Seattle - 132pts - M

IMO this makes Lima the tbest support ship out of the 3. Shaltari is second as reroll your shield saves is good, but only matters if you have shields up, and PHR is worst, as it only affects a single profile line weapon.

Jeez why is the army building in Hawk Games so bloody complicated.

So there are Battlegroups which are then made up of Groups which may or may not form themeselves of their own accord if the ship is the same?

Basically just pretend in the army builder and statlines it says "squadron" and everywhere else it says groups.

So in a light Battlegroup you can have 2 squadrons of 4 Taipei Frigates which on the board function as a single group of 8 frigates

 Compel wrote:
Basically just pretend in the army builder and statlines it says "squadron" and everywhere else it says groups.

So in a light Battlegroup you can have 2 squadrons of 4 Taipei Frigates which on the board function as a single group of 8 frigates

Pretty much what it sounds like the intent was. Certainly lamentable that nobody at Hawk said "using the same word for two different things is probably not a good idea" and just, you know, swapped one for "squadron" or "division" or something. Would have made things easier to understand I think.

Yea. They did a mess up like that with Shaltari also on the whole gate void gate issue on wording.

Building a army is super easy.

http://dflist.com/#/

I dont know who made it but bless them. Its also optimized for ipads (tablets) so its nice to use on them also.

I hope the maker does the same for dropzone as ffor is a pain to use on tablets

PHR pulled the gakky end of the stick for race mechanics.

Broadsides and Armour, the broadside idea could work in a fleet game such as FA or BFG where you are just fighting fleet to fleet. Not so much when both you and your opponent know exactly where each other are heading, plus if by some miracle of overly complicated tactics you nuke there fleet chances are they got the ground game vp and win anyway.

The Armour bonus is worthless when 50%+ of attacks ignore it completely. Even at 2+ it would not be that great(we actually tried this and while it helped it still made little difference).
Ironicly except in the case of a PHR v PHR battle as then neither side could crit worth a damn and it was painfull to watch to the point that PHR v PHR games are banned or settled with a coin toss.

Short version- PHR suck and are a fun tier force, unless you ignore the fluff and race bonuses a fill your fleet with carriers and btl.

Stranger83 wrote:

I assume since you mention strike carriers being safe in Atmo that you're not currently playing with Corvettes?

I have and I use them myself. They aren't all that scary (military sectors are what tends to kill my strike carriers ) and a Strike carrier in atmosphere has a significantly longer life expectancy than a Troopship in low orbit.

 Silent Puffin? wrote:

Stranger83 wrote:

I assume since you mention strike carriers being safe in Atmo that you're not currently playing with Corvettes?

I have and I use them myself. They aren't all that scary (military sectors are what tends to kill my strike carriers ) and a Strike carrier in atmosphere has a significantly longer life expectancy than a Troopship in low orbit.

Military sectors cannot kill ships in Atmosphere though so you are safe there. Escape Velocity forces you to shoot at a layer higher than yourself. Dave confirmed at Bootcamp there are only 3 layers (High Orbit, Low Orbit and Atmosphere). Since the sector is in Atmosphere and Escape Velocity weapons must always target an enemy in a higher layer a sector will never be able to shoot a ship in Atmosphere.

Forgot the rules for linking other sites but here is my FAQ for Dropfleet on the companies official forum: http://www.hawkforum.co.uk/hawkforum/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=9133&p=79573#p79573

Thats a pretty massive faq list - scary but well done for compiling ! I did try and sign up for the Hawk forum but never got authorised.

SeanDrake wrote:
PHR pulled the gakky end of the stick for race mechanics.

Broadsides and Armour, the broadside idea could work in a fleet game such as FA or BFG where you are just fighting fleet to fleet. Not so much when both you and your opponent know exactly where each other are heading, plus if by some miracle of overly complicated tactics you nuke there fleet chances are they got the ground game vp and win anyway.

The Armour bonus is worthless when 50%+ of attacks ignore it completely. Even at 2+ it would not be that great(we actually tried this and while it helped it still made little difference).
Ironicly except in the case of a PHR v PHR battle as then neither side could crit worth a damn and it was painfull to watch to the point that PHR v PHR games are banned or settled with a coin toss.

Short version- PHR suck and are a fun tier force, unless you ignore the fluff and race bonuses a fill your fleet with carriers and btl.

Not sure anyone can make proclomations like this since the game is so new.

I REALLY wanted to play PHR but ended up with shaltari due to availability.

PHR have the second biggest scan, highest armor, and fantastic broadsides. Combine that with short movement and that is a nasty combo.

Being able to cross the enemy at will due to high scan resolution and massive hp is a huge advantage in this game.

The issue I am seeing in this game is that the PHR and Shaltari both seem to be excellent at line of battle tactics where as the other two have to depend on tricks to win.

If you line up your PHR fleet on the left or right edge and make sure to bring some fast stuff to kill drop units you will win alot imo.

 sfshilo wrote:

SeanDrake wrote:
PHR pulled the gakky end of the stick for race mechanics.

Broadsides and Armour, the broadside idea could work in a fleet game such as FA or BFG where you are just fighting fleet to fleet. Not so much when both you and your opponent know exactly where each other are heading, plus if by some miracle of overly complicated tactics you nuke there fleet chances are they got the ground game vp and win anyway.

The Armour bonus is worthless when 50%+ of attacks ignore it completely. Even at 2+ it would not be that great(we actually tried this and while it helped it still made little difference).
Ironicly except in the case of a PHR v PHR battle as then neither side could crit worth a damn and it was painfull to watch to the point that PHR v PHR games are banned or settled with a coin toss.

Short version- PHR suck and are a fun tier force, unless you ignore the fluff and race bonuses a fill your fleet with carriers and btl.

Not sure anyone can make proclomations like this since the game is so new.

I REALLY wanted to play PHR but ended up with shaltari due to availability.

PHR have the second biggest scan, highest armor, and fantastic broadsides. Combine that with short movement and that is a nasty combo.

Being able to cross the enemy at will due to high scan resolution and massive hp is a huge advantage in this game.

The issue I am seeing in this game is that the PHR and Shaltari both seem to be excellent at line of battle tactics where as the other two have to depend on tricks to win.

If you line up your PHR fleet on the left or right edge and make sure to bring some fast stuff to kill drop units you will win alot imo.

There is a lot of math in this very thread that proves how badly the broadside mechanics come up short in this game. Scan might matter in the first couple turns of a game, but everyone runs silent orders those two turns anyways. Its also is a moot point when you know exactly where you and your opponent are going to be. Armor doesn't help against crits, especially against UCM and all the burn through they have. Maneuverability doesn't matter in this game as everyone moves exactly the same- only the distance is different. The only way to win a game is by moving to a specific point on the table and dropping assets on planets/stations. Play more games and you'll see how much of a disadvantage playing PHR can be.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Thats a pretty massive faq list - scary but well done for compiling ! I did try and sign up for the Hawk forum but never got authorised.

Thanks! You have to poke Hawk Liam to get activated. They are way behind because of the Kickstarter. Facebook seems to be a good way to find him as he posts there once and awhile looking for people to activate.


As far as PHR go...well armour and hull don't matter to much in this game from what I have seen and experienced. Ships die extremely fast! Even in a demo sized games a full cruiser can go from full health to exploding in one turn of shooting. Using debris fields is more important than having hull and armour as if your opponent can see it they can probably kill it in one go if they want to. This is making my life as UCM easier since my guns have range, Limas cause spikes and nothing costs a huge amount.

Cry of the Wind wrote:
You have to poke Hawk Liam to get activated. They are way behind because of the Kickstarter. Facebook seems to be a good way to find him as he posts there once and awhile looking for people to activate.

Which Facebook page do I poke him on? It's been almost two weeks since I submitted the registration.

In addition, for Christmas I received my first Hawk starter set, but whole sets of pieces were missing (flight stands, infantry bases). I emailed the info email several times, but have had no response as yet. I feared part of the problem is that my emails I sent from were gmail, yahoo, and hotmail (easily made for spamming ).

The way they handle their board is a nightmare, plain and simple. It seems like the unregistered account is automatically deleted after about 24h hours, so I've re-registered three or four times in a row, dm'd them on FB and still nothing. It's ridiculous. Just send a fething link to click in the registration confirmation mail like every other goddamn board does, it's not that hard. But hey, can't even give them that feedback since their mail is swamped with KS, their FB is run by apparently noone and the board I can't get in.

Looking at how that is setup I'm starting to see why they had the issues in the KS delivery process - if they do everything in such a complicated, manual way it's no wonder it takes them ages to pack a single box full of plastic.

 Charistoph wrote:

Cry of the Wind wrote:
In addition, for Christmas I received my first Hawk starter set, but whole sets of pieces were missing (flight stands, infantry bases). I emailed the info email several times, but have had no response as yet. I feared part of the problem is that my emails I sent from were gmail, yahoo, and hotmail (easily made for spamming ).

I don't think the mail source is an issue, it's the recipient - they're still swamped with the Kickstarter "aftermath" and running anything else on on the side, if at all. Try asking the place your starter set came from, maybe they'll help you (well, unless it was ordered directly from Hawk - then you're out of luck).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On the PHR - I've only done a Starter match as PHR so far, but going by the stats and how ships performed, I'd say the "Broadside" concept just falls flat a lot of the times. When I'm thinking about a PHR list I very heavily prefer the ships that AREN'T broadside ships. Those are just all over the place, especially when it comes to what is or isn't linked.

All of the frigates make sense and seem fun to play, but the Cruisers are really lackluster - at least on paper.

UCM for example has very clear designs that work much better:
Light cruisers: BTL or Turrets
Cruisers: Add smaller turrets to a light cruiser
Heavy: Add another matching primary weapon to a Cruiser
Carrier; Troopship; Bombardment Ship
The only UCM ship I dislike is the St. Petersburg, it's pretty hard to use both BTLs at the same time but I can see the appeal - if you pull it off, it's great.

PHR capital ships are all over the place.
Heracles, Minos, Ganymede, Orion, Ikarus, Orpheus, Hector and Achilles all feel like their batteries should be linked like in the Europa, Ajax or Priam, but they simply aren't.
The Theseus, Agamemnon and Perseus seem like they'd make sense as a Broadside ship, as they're actually able to fire a broadside as one weapon.

So that leaves me with choosing from 3 broadsiders, 3 "dual siders" and a BTL carrier for ships that look sensible to me. Sure, the others bring other things to the table (eg. Launch, Crippling shots), but it's still weird and makes most ships really hard to use.

My Scourge fleet. More pics in my gallery: http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/images-44465-53910_Dfc%20Scourge.html

FiendusMaximus, those ships look great and sinister. Really like the corvette conversions, too.


Anyway, I've built a battleship from plastic DFC parts. I call it the Chang'an class, as it would be used as a Beijing in the unlikely event I get to play the game. The basic hull is quick and easy to make, but gribbling it up proper took a long, long time. There are still some blank turrets that I plan to use when the space station kit arrives. What do you think--missile turrets, mass drivers, or sensors?

Also, is there any resource online that describes what those large cooling vanes/massive mass drivers on the station sprue are actually supposed to be?












What do you think?

I always enjoy conversions - looks good.

Will try and post up my combined Scourge / Shadows (Babylon 5) fleet

 Mr Morden wrote:
I always enjoy conversions - looks good.

Will try and post up my combined Scourge / Shadows (Babylon 5) fleet

Thanks!


And you stole my idea!!! Sort of. I thought the Scourge frigates looked like evil Minbari ships, so I assembled them that way. Not so sure they count as conversions, since the instructions do say the joint is positionable. Cruisers are begging to look super-Shadowy, though. I look forward to seeing your take and stealing your ideas.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
I always enjoy conversions - looks good.

Will try and post up my combined Scourge / Shadows (Babylon 5) fleet

Thanks!


And you stole my idea!!! Sort of. I thought the Scourge frigates looked like evil Minbari ships, so I assembled them that way. Not so sure they count as conversions, since the instructions do say the joint is positionable. Cruisers are begging to look super-Shadowy, though. I look forward to seeing your take and stealing your ideas.

Will try and post tomorrow Mianly reversed some of the cruiser "wings" and put extra tendrils on the Frigates - played a bit with some ideas for stating B5 ships but waiting till they sort out the faqs.

Minbari, Vorlon and Shadow Ships might be a bit strong for Dropfleet but EarthForce and Centauri would work as well as Narn and Non-Aligned Worlds, although 40K ships esp Marines fit the whole theme.

Athough also thinking of making a streamlined version for straight fleet battles.

Shaltari seem like a thematic fit for Vorlons, and their ships are kind of tentacly. Centauri ships would be fun to convert, but for rules, I guess PHR?

I would definitely love to see some streamlined, spacebattles-only rules.

Still very much wip





I'll look to start another thread about a fleet battle system

Very nice looking fleet. Would you mind posting some close-ups of the DFC minis and also the Shadow Stars?

Mr Morden wrote:Still very much wip





I'll look to start another thread about a fleet battle system

Is that Babylon 5?

Those are the Agents of Gaming Shadow ships. You can tell because they are anatomically incorrect. Still, best Shadow ship minis on the market.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Those are the Agents of Gaming Shadow ships. You can tell because they are anatomically incorrect. Still, best Shadow ship minis on the market.

Mongoose Publishing ones actually

Those were the same molds, just with the prices jacked up.

I think there were only two or three sculpts unique to Mongoose, the Excalibur and a couple Ranger ships.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Those were the same molds, just with the prices jacked up.

I think there were only two or three sculpts unique to Mongoose, the Excalibur and a couple Ranger ships.

I'll try and get some more pics up over the weekend and will pm you re MGP ships