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...And that's not what I'm talking about. Unless you count the part about later backpedaling.

I was quoting and opining from the Prime Mk2 edition.

And I believe that it was the introduction to the 1st edition that shaped the fanbase and its perception of the game and how the game was received/popularized, not the introduction to the 2nd edition.

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
And I believe that it was the introduction to the 1st edition that shaped the fanbase and its perception of the game and how the game was received/popularized, not the introduction to the 2nd edition.

I think it pretty much was. Or at least a good amount of the fans twists it into something beyond its original meaning (again, I remember page 5 being a lot more aggressive in tone in mki but still keeping the fifth part relatively unchanged. Correct me if I am wrong on that).

Otherwise mkii's is definitely a major backpedal.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
I'm pretty sure that PGs are not allowed to work for the store that they are responsible for covering. Also PP discourages PGs from putting down other gaming systems/companies. You should put in a word about this to the quartermaster at PP. Maybe after that things will get better for the environment.

Here is a link if you want to take the time:
http://privateerpressforums.com/member.php?126146-PPS_JamesA

Someone should tell my local PG that. There's a store, whom I shall call X, in my country that basically makes it their business to buy out influential players in the community, whether by giving them discounts/hiring them or whatever. Another store has complained that basically the local PG is getting a free trip to Gencon from X but coincidentally, the local WMH scene has also moved over to Xs. I'm sure it's just a coincidence.

That someone could be you. The link I posted works for anyone. All you need is an account on the PP boards.

My feeling here at Dakka is that some comments made about WMH are answered by PP staff.

You have anyone in mind specifically? Just curious as to your statement. As far as I can tell most of the big named PPers are too busy with either the PP boards, their twitter accounts and, probably, their jobs.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
You have anyone in mind specifically? Just curious as to your statement. As far as I can tell most of the big named PPers are too busy with either the PP boards, their twitter accounts and, probably, their jobs.

No, I haven't. I had some questions (and disappointments with the assembling of units) when I restarted WM in 2014 and the answers looked like defending PP. You just don't answer this way when you are not getting payed by them or work for them.

IDK, I feel like you find white knights (I assume you're talking about that) with any system. PP's do tend to be more aggressive about it, though.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:I was quoting and opining from the Prime Mk2 edition.

spiralingcadaver wrote:And I believe that it was the introduction to the 1st edition that shaped the fanbase and its perception of the game and how the game was received/popularized, not the introduction to the 2nd edition.

How was the 1st edition page5 different from the 2nd edition one?

 wuestenfux wrote:

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
You have anyone in mind specifically? Just curious as to your statement. As far as I can tell most of the big named PPers are too busy with either the PP boards, their twitter accounts and, probably, their jobs.

No, I haven't. I had some questions (and disappointments with the assembling of units) when I restarted WM in 2014 and the answers looked like defending PP. You just don't answer this way when you are not getting payed by them or work for them.

WM/H has a portion of their fan base that is incredibly rabid when it comes to defending it, especially when it comes to comparison to GW stuff.

 Zywus wrote:
How was the 1st edition page5 different from the 2nd edition one?

Like I said, couldn't find it, but it's a much more in-your-face/aggressive tone. A young company making a strong first impression, which IMHO ultimately negatively shaped their fanbase.

nobody wrote:
WM/H has a portion of their fan base that is incredibly rabid when it comes to defending it, especially when it comes to comparison to GW stuff.

How about that.

As far as I'm aware none of the users active in this subforum here are PP staff or anything along those lines, if that helps

Welp, this place might start to see more traffic if the current scare on the PP forums turns out to be true

Well at least my username is the same.

Same here, and maybe the influx will bring this forum up the rungs a bit

 Swampmist wrote:
Welp, this place might start to see more traffic if the current scare on the PP forums turns out to be true

What's the current scare?

Sining wrote:

 Swampmist wrote:
Welp, this place might start to see more traffic if the current scare on the PP forums turns out to be true

What's the current scare?

PP announced that they are going to be streamlining their forums, currently the only forums we know for certain that will stick around are the rules one and the one for their new development process.

 Zywus wrote:

Leo_the_Rat wrote:I was quoting and opining from the Prime Mk2 edition.

spiralingcadaver wrote:And I believe that it was the introduction to the 1st edition that shaped the fanbase and its perception of the game and how the game was received/popularized, not the introduction to the 2nd edition.

How was the 1st edition page5 different from the 2nd edition one?

The full, hideous, insulting, pro-WAAC 1st edition drek for all to see.

Warning: Not suitable for wussies!

Sissies. Little girls. Nancy boys... go home. This game is not for you.

If you cry when you lose, get lost -- you're going to lose. If it hurts your fragile sensibilities to see your favorite character get pounded unmercifully by a rapid succession of no-holds-barred iron fury, you'd better look the other way. If you've ever whined the words, "That's too powerful," then put the book down slowly and walk away before making eye contact with anyone or they'll realize your voice hasn't changed yet.

This game is about aggression. This is the game of metal-on-metal combat. This is fuel-injected power hopped up on steroids. This is WARMACHINE -- the battles game that kicks so much ass we have to use all capital letters.

We didn't set out to reinvent the wheel with this game -- we just armor plated it, covered it in spikes, and rolled it over your grandma's house.

WARMACHINE is simple. It's easy to learn, has no reference charts, no heavy arithmetic, and doesn't require constant trips to the rulebook. At the same time, WARMACHINE possesses deep strategy. The ability to unlock combinations of abilities and spells and maneuvers is practically limitless. For every perfect strategy, there is a foil. For every immovable object, there is an unstoppable force. Just when you think you've got it all worked out, you'll be blindsided by something you never saw before. The more you dig, the more you'll find.

WARMACHINE favors the aggressor. You've got to throw the first punch if you want to land on top! Too many games set players up to be timid. Games drag out with little action because the game favors defensive strategies. Players park their soldiers behind walls like old ladies hiding from a loud noise.

Not in WARMACHINE! If you want your opponent to come to you, you're going to get steamrolled. You've got to have balls to play this game! You've got to charge your opponent and hang it all out there! You've got to break his formations. You've got to be relentless with your onslaught. You have to go for the jugular and latch on like a rabid dog that hasn't eaten in days. Anything less and you'll be hamburger.

You're playing with power now. Don't be afraid! Few things are more satisfying than slamming your opponent's warjack into a unit of soldiers and watching them fall like bowling pins! (We call this jack bowling.) Try picking up an enemy warcaster (with a warjack, of course) and throwing it across the battlefield! It's almost more fun than you should be allowed to have with miniatures game.

The miniatures of WARMACHINE deliver on every level that the game does. These warjacks radiate power! We're pouring so much metal into these things that at our current rate, we'll deplete the world of pewter by 2006. And these things were made for modeling. The incredible detail and expert sculpting will create one of the most enjoyable painting experiences you've ever had.

This is a new era in tabletop miniatures wargaming. This is a game made for you, by people like you. It's not a load of sterilized mass market drek designed by a room of corporate meatplow. This is raw. This is brutal. This is WARMACHINE.

So play like you've got a pair, or put down the metal and go find something made of plastic.

Cheers
Mark

MarkNorfolk wrote:

 Zywus wrote:

Leo_the_Rat wrote:I was quoting and opining from the Prime Mk2 edition.

spiralingcadaver wrote:And I believe that it was the introduction to the 1st edition that shaped the fanbase and its perception of the game and how the game was received/popularized, not the introduction to the 2nd edition.

How was the 1st edition page5 different from the 2nd edition one?

The full, hideous, insulting, pro-WAAC 1st edition drek for all to see.

Spoiler:

Warning: Not suitable for wussies!

Sissies. Little girls. Nancy boys... go home. This game is not for you.

If you cry when you lose, get lost -- you're going to lose. If it hurts your fragile sensibilities to see your favorite character get pounded unmercifully by a rapid succession of no-holds-barred iron fury, you'd better look the other way. If you've ever whined the words, "That's too powerful," then put the book down slowly and walk away before making eye contact with anyone or they'll realize your voice hasn't changed yet.

This game is about aggression. This is the game of metal-on-metal combat. This is fuel-injected power hopped up on steroids. This is WARMACHINE -- the battles game that kicks so much ass we have to use all capital letters.

We didn't set out to reinvent the wheel with this game -- we just armor plated it, covered it in spikes, and rolled it over your grandma's house.

WARMACHINE is simple. It's easy to learn, has no reference charts, no heavy arithmetic, and doesn't require constant trips to the rulebook. At the same time, WARMACHINE possesses deep strategy. The ability to unlock combinations of abilities and spells and maneuvers is practically limitless. For every perfect strategy, there is a foil. For every immovable object, there is an unstoppable force. Just when you think you've got it all worked out, you'll be blindsided by something you never saw before. The more you dig, the more you'll find.

WARMACHINE favors the aggressor. You've got to throw the first punch if you want to land on top! Too many games set players up to be timid. Games drag out with little action because the game favors defensive strategies. Players park their soldiers behind walls like old ladies hiding from a loud noise.

Not in WARMACHINE! If you want your opponent to come to you, you're going to get steamrolled. You've got to have balls to play this game! You've got to charge your opponent and hang it all out there! You've got to break his formations. You've got to be relentless with your onslaught. You have to go for the jugular and latch on like a rabid dog that hasn't eaten in days. Anything less and you'll be hamburger.

You're playing with power now. Don't be afraid! Few things are more satisfying than slamming your opponent's warjack into a unit of soldiers and watching them fall like bowling pins! (We call this jack bowling.) Try picking up an enemy warcaster (with a warjack, of course) and throwing it across the battlefield! It's almost more fun than you should be allowed to have with miniatures game.

The miniatures of WARMACHINE deliver on every level that the game does. These warjacks radiate power! We're pouring so much metal into these things that at our current rate, we'll deplete the world of pewter by 2006. And these things were made for modeling. The incredible detail and expert sculpting will create one of the most enjoyable painting experiences you've ever had.

This is a new era in tabletop miniatures wargaming. This is a game made for you, by people like you. It's not a load of sterilized mass market drek designed by a room of corporate meatplow. This is raw. This is brutal. This is WARMACHINE.

So play like you've got a pair, or put down the metal and go find something made of plastic.

Cheers
Mark

Oh, man. That's so cringy

I don't get the impression that could have been intended to be taken completely serious though.

Unfortunately it was, setting the tone that attracted a certain type of player. Not all of course, I've some great games of Warmachine and Hordes over the years. But that 'manifesto' gave the organised play an ugly foundation.

I was glad to see that it was tempered with Mkii and has vanished in Mkiii, but the taint remains.

Cheers
Mark

Well that was replaced by the time of MKI Remix, I actually have the book around here somewhere, I'll have to dig it out. But it's pretty much the same as the mkII version.

MarkNorfolk wrote:

I was glad to see that it was tempered with Mkii and has vanished in Mkiii, but the taint remains.

Cheers
Mark

I find MK2 increased the playerbase enough that the only remnants of the MK1 page 5 are people it drove off that still carry the scars. The majority of players only really know the tempered MK2 version and only make rare references with tongues planted firmly in cheeks. There is always "that guy" I suppose, but its been years since the community was immature enough to take him seriously.

Hahahaha, I forgot about that page 5. You know, it makes me smile rereading it. Yeah, I never took as "You must play like a donkey cave and insult everybody and anybody not playing Warmachine, crush your opponents and laugh at them, and insult their (wo)manhood with derogatory remarks."

Most of the people who were like that, we're like that to begin with in my community, and played like that in every game system they played. They quickly adjusted or didn't find people who would play the game with them. Sure, that page 5 might have given people something to hide behind while being a loser, and it could have been worded better. But I get the feeling it was supposed to be more for a giggle and not taken as the law of the land for Warmachine.

Yeesh, I didn't realize that was in MkI. I only ever played MkII, though I did get that vibe from the local players.

If I want to play a game with that mindset, I'll break out my old Lego collection and play BrikWars.

Thanks for finding that, Norfolk. Yeah, that's even a little worse than I remembered.

Not all the circles I ran in took that to heart, but it definitely did attract that WAAC mentality. And some of that was awesome since it made the game more strategy than fluff, but it also warped a lot of people's attitudes.

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
Thanks for finding that, Norfolk. Yeah, that's even a little worse than I remembered.

Not all the circles I ran in took that to heart, but it definitely did attract that WAAC mentality. And some of that was awesome since it made the game more strategy than fluff, but it also warped a lot of people's attitudes.

If I recall, PP were trying to be different and start with a joke to set them apart from more serious wargame producers.
My meta took it as a tongue-in-cheek joke that was meant to be cringy.
But yeah, it's actually a little embarrassing to read B&W prime's page five.