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2017/02/25 22:24:52
Subject: Will Tactical Dreadnought armor ever be viable?
NivlacSupreme wrote: With these people talking about boarding not mattering I have a question.
Am I the only person anywhere who plays zone mortallis?
No, and Terminators suck there too.
I didn't say they didn't. The only terminators I have are in Catarphractii plate and I've never used them in a ZM. I usually use a huge mob of a primus medicae, an apothecary, a centurion and a 15 man tactical squad.
2017/02/25 23:22:10
Subject: Will Tactical Dreadnought armor ever be viable?
NivlacSupreme wrote: With these people talking about boarding not mattering I have a question.
Am I the only person anywhere who plays zone mortallis?
No, and Terminators suck there too.
I didn't say they didn't. The only terminators I have are in Catarphractii plate and I've never used them in a ZM. I usually use a huge mob of a primus medicae, an apothecary, a centurion and a 15 man tactical squad.
I can count on one hand how much I played 30k. Pretty fun but you got some people that give you a dirty look for using whatever 40k models you got and aren't painted correctly.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2017/02/25 23:29:04
Subject: Will Tactical Dreadnought armor ever be viable?
NivlacSupreme wrote: With these people talking about boarding not mattering I have a question.
Am I the only person anywhere who plays zone mortallis?
No, and Terminators suck there too.
I didn't say they didn't. The only terminators I have are in Catarphractii plate and I've never used them in a ZM. I usually use a huge mob of a primus medicae, an apothecary, a centurion and a 15 man tactical squad.
I can count on one hand how much I played 30k. Pretty fun but you got some people that give you a dirty look for using whatever 40k models you got and aren't painted correctly.
My armies not even half painted but it's all organized right and uses period accurate models.
2017/02/25 23:52:35
Subject: Will Tactical Dreadnought armor ever be viable?
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: As a CSM player I don't complain about MY Terminators. The issue is how the Loyalist ones are handled.
To be fair though, that's more because everything in our codex is on par with them at being bad, or that some units are just flat out worse while sharing the same slot (Mutilators/Possessed).
The fact that no one uses them out side of 3 man suicide missions is a bit worrying, because they should be able to do at least a little bit more (even if that 'more' is requiring the enemy to pump more firepower into them.
Also we have Death Guard Terminators, which is the Terminator every other Terminator wishes they were.
2017/02/25 23:53:26
Subject: Re:Will Tactical Dreadnought armor ever be viable?
casvalremdeikun wrote: I am hoping that 8th edition has something similar to the Age of Sigmar rending system instead of AP. That would solve some of the issues with 2+ saves. What would be nice is if TDA lets you roll the 5++ after you fail a 2+.
I like the rending system. I don't know that it will necessarily solve the problem, as if there are lots of rending weapons Terminators will still get overwhelmed and killed. Giving them a 0+ save might help (using the old HFB rules for saves better than 2+) but even so.
Part of the problem with Terminators might have to do with their wargear. They have power fists and storm bolters, which are expensive. They are already getting all their stuff at a steeply discounted rate. Kind f like with Meganobz being 40 points while a regular nob with a klaw and TL shoota being 46 points (meganobz do have a minor hindrance in that they're slow).
Would changing the minimum unit size to three help? That way they would be less of a points investment and it would also effectively give them one assault cannon in three instead of five.
Zone Mortalis looks really fun. I've got Flash Gitz that need assembling and am thinking about ordering some pirate heads for my slugga boyz.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/25 23:55:05
YELL REAL LOUD AN' CARRY A BIG CHOPPA!
2017/02/26 00:11:06
Subject: Will Tactical Dreadnought armor ever be viable?
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: As a CSM player I don't complain about MY Terminators. The issue is how the Loyalist ones are handled.
To be fair though, that's more because everything in our codex is on par with them at being bad, or that some units are just flat out worse while sharing the same slot (Mutilators/Possessed).
The fact that no one uses them out side of 3 man suicide missions is a bit worrying, because they should be able to do at least a little bit more (even if that 'more' is requiring the enemy to pump more firepower into them.
Also we have Death Guard Terminators, which is the Terminator every other Terminator wishes they were.
However, it isn't just Death Guard Terminators.
1. Black Legion are troops and have a generic Hatred.
2. Emperor's Children have 6+++ and Combat Drugs.
3. The World Eaters got Furious Charge for free and have that formation to make them run up the field super quickly.
On top of having a cheaper investment cost and therefore not needing to buy a frickin power fist on everything, they're simply better, AND they don't even have Deep Strike mitigation like the Loyalists.
Yeah the Reaper Autocannon is bad but oh well. It either needs to be 15 points or have an extra shot. It makes mildly more sense in the Formation but still not worth it
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2017/02/26 00:13:03
Subject: Will Tactical Dreadnought armor ever be viable?
Grav had nothing to do with Terminators being bad.
Grav made Terminators less viable than ever before.
If they weren't good to begin with does it matter?
Given this thread is about Terminator viability, I'd say it does. Did Space Marines need Grav at all?
Kinda, but the issue is with how the mechanic works rather than the weapon itself. I've proposed before it should be wounding based off the size of the models rather than the Armor Save. It wouldn't be a nerf but rather making the weapon really function as intended.
Also no it doesn't matter. We are talking about viability of Terminators. There was never any viability to begin with. Ergo, don't complain about Grav. Save it for a different thread.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2017/02/26 01:00:30
Subject: Will Tactical Dreadnought armor ever be viable?
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: As a CSM player I don't complain about MY Terminators. The issue is how the Loyalist ones are handled.
To be fair though, that's more because everything in our codex is on par with them at being bad, or that some units are just flat out worse while sharing the same slot (Mutilators/Possessed).
The fact that no one uses them out side of 3 man suicide missions is a bit worrying, because they should be able to do at least a little bit more (even if that 'more' is requiring the enemy to pump more firepower into them.
Also we have Death Guard Terminators, which is the Terminator every other Terminator wishes they were.
However, it isn't just Death Guard Terminators.
1. Black Legion are troops and have a generic Hatred.
2. Emperor's Children have 6+++ and Combat Drugs.
3. The World Eaters got Furious Charge for free and have that formation to make them run up the field super quickly.
On top of having a cheaper investment cost and therefore not needing to buy a frickin power fist on everything, they're simply better, AND they don't even have Deep Strike mitigation like the Loyalists.
Yeah the Reaper Autocannon is bad but oh well. It either needs to be 15 points or have an extra shot. It makes mildly more sense in the Formation but still not worth it
Even EC doesn't run Terminators because they have no use for them, same with WE who would prefer more bodies with CSM leading the charge, BL is the only one that would run terminators due to the alpha deep strike and formations that buff them further.
Heck, for the longest time the only use for our Terminators was 'Termicide'. The idea of dropping combi-melta terminators to drop down, melta a vehicle, and either die or try to stab things before going. Certainly not what one pictures for Terminators, especially for CSM where one tends to have to kill the previous owner to get it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/26 03:32:03
2017/02/26 04:51:52
Subject: Will Tactical Dreadnought armor ever be viable?
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: As a CSM player I don't complain about MY Terminators. The issue is how the Loyalist ones are handled.
To be fair though, that's more because everything in our codex is on par with them at being bad, or that some units are just flat out worse while sharing the same slot (Mutilators/Possessed).
The fact that no one uses them out side of 3 man suicide missions is a bit worrying, because they should be able to do at least a little bit more (even if that 'more' is requiring the enemy to pump more firepower into them.
Also we have Death Guard Terminators, which is the Terminator every other Terminator wishes they were.
However, it isn't just Death Guard Terminators.
1. Black Legion are troops and have a generic Hatred.
2. Emperor's Children have 6+++ and Combat Drugs.
3. The World Eaters got Furious Charge for free and have that formation to make them run up the field super quickly.
On top of having a cheaper investment cost and therefore not needing to buy a frickin power fist on everything, they're simply better, AND they don't even have Deep Strike mitigation like the Loyalists.
Yeah the Reaper Autocannon is bad but oh well. It either needs to be 15 points or have an extra shot. It makes mildly more sense in the Formation but still not worth it
Even EC doesn't run Terminators because they have no use for them, same with WE who would prefer more bodies with CSM leading the charge, BL is the only one that would run terminators due to the alpha deep strike and formations that buff them further.
Heck, for the longest time the only use for our Terminators was 'Termicide'. The idea of dropping combi-melta terminators to drop down, melta a vehicle, and either die or try to stab things before going. Certainly not what one pictures for Terminators, especially for CSM where one tends to have to kill the previous owner to get it.
You clearly haven't been testing the TL supplement a lot if you made those remarks about those four Legions.
Also it doesn't matter what YOU or other people are picturing as the role for those Terminators. I've exclusively used them as Termicide since I started using them in the 6th edition codex. I liked it then, and it is even more remarkable now thanks to these buffs.
What you pictured? Use the unit entry not fluff and maybe you won't be disappointed, just like the people in this thread that keep justifying that Terminators should be super tough. Seriously. It is old at this point. Based off the wargear options and rules they were clearly meant to be shock troopers. The issue is that they aren't doing it good at all.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2017/02/26 05:32:54
Subject: Will Tactical Dreadnought armor ever be viable?
basically the only way to fix tda would be to either go back and basically delete them from the game, remake them into something more practical to the game. OR we move the game around them radically altering the way basically everything works and we gut the fast attack slot units of wargear and special rules packages until stuff like bikes and cavalry are basically worthless.
then we lock up lord of war back into APOC and maybe just maybe terminators become viable again.
one way i thought they could bring them back into viability is to grant you some kind of outrageous imperial wide formation where you take so many terminators and you get a fortress of redemption with any upgrades you want for free. because i mean.. its a free fortress of redemption with free upgrades there has to be some kind of application for that on table its like a 300 point fortification
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/02/26 05:47:49
DA army: 3500pts,
admech army: 600pts
ravenguard: 565 pts
2017/02/26 11:42:33
Subject: Will Tactical Dreadnought armor ever be viable?
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: As a CSM player I don't complain about MY Terminators. The issue is how the Loyalist ones are handled.
To be fair though, that's more because everything in our codex is on par with them at being bad, or that some units are just flat out worse while sharing the same slot (Mutilators/Possessed).
The fact that no one uses them out side of 3 man suicide missions is a bit worrying, because they should be able to do at least a little bit more (even if that 'more' is requiring the enemy to pump more firepower into them.
Also we have Death Guard Terminators, which is the Terminator every other Terminator wishes they were.
However, it isn't just Death Guard Terminators.
1. Black Legion are troops and have a generic Hatred.
2. Emperor's Children have 6+++ and Combat Drugs.
3. The World Eaters got Furious Charge for free and have that formation to make them run up the field super quickly.
On top of having a cheaper investment cost and therefore not needing to buy a frickin power fist on everything, they're simply better, AND they don't even have Deep Strike mitigation like the Loyalists.
Yeah the Reaper Autocannon is bad but oh well. It either needs to be 15 points or have an extra shot. It makes mildly more sense in the Formation but still not worth it
Even EC doesn't run Terminators because they have no use for them, same with WE who would prefer more bodies with CSM leading the charge, BL is the only one that would run terminators due to the alpha deep strike and formations that buff them further.
Heck, for the longest time the only use for our Terminators was 'Termicide'. The idea of dropping combi-melta terminators to drop down, melta a vehicle, and either die or try to stab things before going. Certainly not what one pictures for Terminators, especially for CSM where one tends to have to kill the previous owner to get it.
You clearly haven't been testing the TL supplement a lot if you made those remarks about those four Legions.
Also it doesn't matter what YOU or other people are picturing as the role for those Terminators. I've exclusively used them as Termicide since I started using them in the 6th edition codex. I liked it then, and it is even more remarkable now thanks to these buffs.
What you pictured? Use the unit entry not fluff and maybe you won't be disappointed, just like the people in this thread that keep justifying that Terminators should be super tough. Seriously. It is old at this point. Based off the wargear options and rules they were clearly meant to be shock troopers. The issue is that they aren't doing it good at all.
Been using them as Termicide since 5th, that does not mean however I have to enjoy it, and given how wargear and rules can change between editions one can barely attempt to say what things are clearly meant to be when it comes to their rule writers.
But given that they are meant to be Shock Troopers, piercing into the backline I'm pretty sure the intention isn't for them to drop in shoot and die afterwords.
2017/02/26 11:47:17
Subject: Will Tactical Dreadnought armor ever be viable?
n0t_u wrote: Stormbolters S5 causes more issues though, they need their own version of the thing and that can be S5.
Literally ZERO issues are caused by a S5 universal Storm Bolter. Name one. Please. I insist.
Here's a starter.
Also makes heavy bolters even worse. A stormbolter, if it's getting any changes, should get more shots and/or shred maybe.
So Grey Knights having S5 shooting is an issue? LOL k
Because the codex is super strong as is? Even the 5th edition was designed for 6th anyway and look how powerful it was in 6th. Bad answer but I give you credit for trying.
I was going for the more amusing answer cause like I wasn't quite sure anyway but went with it cause daemons. I think the issues with the terminators likely only got worse with the release of the centurions as they're kind of like pushed out of what seemed like their role leaving them as expensive glorified tacticals now and last time I checked those sucked too. I don't know, they're meant to be the sledgehammer of the marines but instead we get this.
Still at the same time I don't want to see the stormbolter start stepping on the toes of the heavy bolter as yet another issue is created where the heavy bolter is even worse. Given its rate of fire the stormbolter should more likely be looked at as like a possible smaller version of the assault cannon and perhaps 4 shots at s4 ap4 with rending would work. However then we get back to the grey knights and if that's a good idea on a larger scale. So that's kind of why I think they should just give terminators a different version of the stormbolter rather than a global change to stormbolters cause we all know GW won't look at things outside of a vacuum and thus likely screw that up too.
What toes? The Heavy Bolter HAS nothing going for it anyway. Besides, everyone already knows they should be Heavy 4 or Salvo 2/4.
So why not then just give all the terminators heavy bolters since they have relentless? At least they did last time I checked.
Why HB when they could all take Assault Cannons? Its waaaayyyy better. And another question for dakka, do they HAVE to keep the storm bolter/AC? Why not give them a grav option. They are relentless after all and there aren't a whole lot of marines that can't take this anyways. Seems kinda silly that the elite 1st company can't take the best weapons while my scout sergeant can run around with a grav pistol all day.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I'm not saying this would fix everything or make them even remotely close to as good as centurions but it could help.
Grav is a newer type weapon. TDA is old. I think whatever changes are made to terms their weapon options need to remain the same. See my post above I think it's a nice way to adress both units and give them each a viable roll.
Graviton guns were in RT. They were weird then, and looking at the profile probably very annoying too.
ILegion wrote: Why HB when they could all take Assault Cannons? Its waaaayyyy better. And another question for dakka, do they HAVE to keep the storm bolter/AC? Why not give them a grav option. They are relentless after all and there aren't a whole lot of marines that can't take this anyways. Seems kinda silly that the elite 1st company can't take the best weapons while my scout sergeant can run around with a grav pistol all day.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I'm not saying this would fix everything or make them even remotely close to as good as centurions but it could help.
The point was with 2 S5 stormbolter shots base on a terminator, the HB is only a tiny bit extra on top of that. The HB would likely need even more readjusting than it needs at the moment. Which in turn could see the assault cannon needing a little work as well. The main issue is power creep and adding yet more power creep only prolongs the problem.
But the Assault Cannon never needed reworking. The only issue with it is lack of presence. Nobody has ever complained about the profile of it outside Martel, and his complaint does feel almost legit when you consider the fact that Eldar are an army that was made.
I was trying to keep an open mind towards any ripple effect basically.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: As a CSM player I don't complain about MY Terminators. The issue is how the Loyalist ones are handled.
To be fair though, that's more because everything in our codex is on par with them at being bad, or that some units are just flat out worse while sharing the same slot (Mutilators/Possessed).
The fact that no one uses them out side of 3 man suicide missions is a bit worrying, because they should be able to do at least a little bit more (even if that 'more' is requiring the enemy to pump more firepower into them.
Also we have Death Guard Terminators, which is the Terminator every other Terminator wishes they were.
However, it isn't just Death Guard Terminators.
1. Black Legion are troops and have a generic Hatred.
2. Emperor's Children have 6+++ and Combat Drugs.
3. The World Eaters got Furious Charge for free and have that formation to make them run up the field super quickly.
On top of having a cheaper investment cost and therefore not needing to buy a frickin power fist on everything, they're simply better, AND they don't even have Deep Strike mitigation like the Loyalists.
Yeah the Reaper Autocannon is bad but oh well. It either needs to be 15 points or have an extra shot. It makes mildly more sense in the Formation but still not worth it
Even EC doesn't run Terminators because they have no use for them, same with WE who would prefer more bodies with CSM leading the charge, BL is the only one that would run terminators due to the alpha deep strike and formations that buff them further.
Heck, for the longest time the only use for our Terminators was 'Termicide'. The idea of dropping combi-melta terminators to drop down, melta a vehicle, and either die or try to stab things before going. Certainly not what one pictures for Terminators, especially for CSM where one tends to have to kill the previous owner to get it.
You clearly haven't been testing the TL supplement a lot if you made those remarks about those four Legions.
Also it doesn't matter what YOU or other people are picturing as the role for those Terminators. I've exclusively used them as Termicide since I started using them in the 6th edition codex. I liked it then, and it is even more remarkable now thanks to these buffs.
What you pictured? Use the unit entry not fluff and maybe you won't be disappointed, just like the people in this thread that keep justifying that Terminators should be super tough. Seriously. It is old at this point. Based off the wargear options and rules they were clearly meant to be shock troopers. The issue is that they aren't doing it good at all.
Been using them as Termicide since 5th, that does not mean however I have to enjoy it, and given how wargear and rules can change between editions one can barely attempt to say what things are clearly meant to be when it comes to their rule writers.
But given that they are meant to be Shock Troopers, piercing into the backline I'm pretty sure the intention isn't for them to drop in shoot and die afterwords.
Honestly I don't care about whether you enjoy it. Given the unit profile and wargear selection, Chaos Terminators operate more closely to how theoretically the Loyalist Terminators should act. The main difference is how suicidal each one is of course. And of course Shock Troopers are going to die. That's how they all are in Warhammer.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2017/02/26 15:47:45
Subject: Will Tactical Dreadnought armor ever be viable?
The fluff is like ketchup and mustard on a burger. Yes it's desirable, yes it makes things better, but no it doesn't fundamentally change what you're eating and no you shouldn't just drown the whole meal in it.
2017/02/26 16:11:48
Subject: Will Tactical Dreadnought armor ever be viable?
The fluff is like ketchup and mustard on a burger. Yes it's desirable, yes it makes things better, but no it doesn't fundamentally change what you're eating and no you shouldn't just drown the whole meal in it.
2017/02/26 18:02:16
Subject: Will Tactical Dreadnought armor ever be viable?
My thought has always been to give them "BS7" armor save for plain terminator armor losing the added roll against ap2/1. So vs bolters 2+/5+. Plasma would be just 2+. Any wargear that increases the invuln save increases the reroll.
2017/02/26 19:22:47
Subject: Will Tactical Dreadnought armor ever be viable?
I've been playing since 3rd edition, and in that time Terminators have never really been worth their points. They don't have either the damage output or the durability their investment in points suggests they should have.
Improving their invulnerable save doesn't really help much, nor does nerfing grav. Their big problem is that volume of fire takes them down too easily. They'd either need two wounds each, or they need to re-roll their armor saves. The former would be better, I think. Makes them more durable vs grav and plasma, but a lascannon still puts one down.
That leaves damage output. Their firepower is underwhelming, even with an assault cannon or cyclone. Their base firepower needs to improve. Either that, or they need to be able to assault out of deep strike.
Right, if you deep strike them onto the field, what do they do that you wouldn't rather have another unit for? Could any amount of increased durability fix it? There is no reason to take them for DS firepower, because sternguard do it better, even non-DS things like bikers are more likely to do the same job better. There is no reason to take them just to have a big footprint and take up an objective, because tactical squads do it better and it isn't that useful. Terminators don't even really have a role unless they are chaos.
2017/02/26 22:44:14
Subject: Will Tactical Dreadnought armor ever be viable?
The fluff is like ketchup and mustard on a burger. Yes it's desirable, yes it makes things better, but no it doesn't fundamentally change what you're eating and no you shouldn't just drown the whole meal in it.
2017/02/27 07:38:27
Subject: Will Tactical Dreadnought armor ever be viable?
+1 W
FNP 2 heavies per 5 Terminators.
Give them the option to swap PF for other power weapons.
Maybe give Terminator storm bolters Rending and/or PE Xenos.
This would make them a viable, fluffy unit at the same time. Powerful, not really, durable absolutely. However durability is supposed to be their schtick.
IMO centurions are IOMs attempt at creating battlesuits. Being able to field heavier, more potent weapons in exoskeletons that give them a better resiliency.
Termies are supposed to be the shock troops to crack open the enemy lines or possibly a reserve unit for SHTF scenarios. They're lacking durability and lethality and the above proposed changes would greatly help out both. Compared to what some other units of equal points cost can do, I don't think they're unreasonable at all.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/27 08:30:41
2017/02/27 17:00:22
Subject: Will Tactical Dreadnought armor ever be viable?
Dantes_Baals wrote: +1 W
FNP 2 heavies per 5 Terminators.
Give them the option to swap PF for other power weapons.
Maybe give Terminator storm bolters Rending and/or PE Xenos.
This would make them a viable, fluffy unit at the same time. Powerful, not really, durable absolutely. However durability is supposed to be their schtick.
IMO centurions are IOMs attempt at creating battlesuits. Being able to field heavier, more potent weapons in exoskeletons that give them a better resiliency.
Termies are supposed to be the shock troops to crack open the enemy lines or possibly a reserve unit for SHTF scenarios. They're lacking durability and lethality and the above proposed changes would greatly help out both. Compared to what some other units of equal points cost can do, I don't think they're unreasonable at all.
Except durability isn't their gimmick. Just because in fluff it is more durable than Power Armor doesn't mean it is the most durable armor ever. I have no clue why people keep thinking this.
You're also trying to make them more durable than Centurions for the points.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2017/02/27 17:04:05
Subject: Will Tactical Dreadnought armor ever be viable?
I still maintain that the solution is +1 Wound, +1 Toughness, with a reduced regular save to 3+. The math supports that this is a significant improvement in survivability, but not to the point where it's obscene. It also requires no rerolling.
You wouldn't even need to call it a "wound," you could call it "Ablative Shielding," and the rule reads: "Tactical dreadnought armor generates a field around the user. When an unsaved wound is suffered, the shielding is permanently destroyed and the wound is prevented." (or something like that. i'm not a technical writer.)
This way you couldn't restore wounds to terminators, in case that would be too strong. Also This would not apply to Cataphractii terminator armor, since those guys are solid as hell with their access to 3++ and their ability to reroll 1s. Also, they confer slow & purposeful, so there are benefits to bring them over regular terminators situationally.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/27 17:05:07
Galas wrote: I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you
Bharring wrote: He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
