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 Melissia wrote:
Actually I think it would be. I mean, the only T3 army that is actually rather competitive right now is Eldar, and making the other T3 armies more vulnerable to the supreme firepower of other armies would be pretty bad.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And that says nothing about how much more powerful GK would become against vehicles with that...

If frickin Pulse Rifles are not an issue to Rhinos, Grey Knights with S5 Storm Bolters will not be.

Also you're talking about other armies that don't function already when we are talking about stuff that doesn't function already. I don't really care because I'm sticking mostly to the topic on hand. If you want to make a thread about how to rebalance Tyranids or AM I'll gladly contribute as I have many ideas about those.

 Badablack wrote:
Older editions gave Terminators a 3+ save...on 2d6. That's a bit too much dice management though, so instead just give terminator armor a natural rerollable armor save. It's supposed to be practically immune to small arms fire, instead of that being its biggest weakness. Rerollable armor keeps the immunity to normal weaponry with a small chance of cracking through a lens or joint while anti armor guns remain its natural weakness.

Terminators being able to use their teleporters offensively is a good idea too. Make them able to use teleportation to smash into the enemy line akin to jump infantry. Instead of the faster movement though, make terminator assaults automatically pass up to 12" charges with no reduction for difficult terrain, with AP3 hammer of wraths to represent Terminators literally teleporting into your midst and tearing people apart inside out from displaced matter.

I like a lot of this. I'd keep stormbolters where they are but increase their rate of fire. For DA this could actually get kind of scary, Assult 4 and twin linked when deep striking? I could work with that better than what they are now. Removing the negative bonuses to charging through difficult terrain makes since, I mean if they are running forwards shear mass and momentum means there isn't going to be a whole lot that can stop them short of ship blast door. A rotting copse of trees or some dilapidated ruin isn't stopping gak. I'm not sure i'd go with rending. Like people have said, they are still just 2 bolt guns tapped together. Hammer of wrath should be universal for all termies to I think. AP3 might be a little much and charging from DS would do a lot. Through in a 2+ re-rollable and I'd be content I think.

 n0t_u wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 n0t_u wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 n0t_u wrote:
Stormbolters S5 causes more issues though, they need their own version of the thing and that can be S5.

Literally ZERO issues are caused by a S5 universal Storm Bolter. Name one. Please. I insist.

Here's a starter.


Also makes heavy bolters even worse. A stormbolter, if it's getting any changes, should get more shots and/or shred maybe.

So Grey Knights having S5 shooting is an issue? LOL k
Because the codex is super strong as is? Even the 5th edition was designed for 6th anyway and look how powerful it was in 6th. Bad answer but I give you credit for trying.

I was going for the more amusing answer cause like I wasn't quite sure anyway but went with it cause daemons.
I think the issues with the terminators likely only got worse with the release of the centurions as they're kind of like pushed out of what seemed like their role leaving them as expensive glorified tacticals now and last time I checked those sucked too. I don't know, they're meant to be the sledgehammer of the marines but instead we get this.

Still at the same time I don't want to see the stormbolter start stepping on the toes of the heavy bolter as yet another issue is created where the heavy bolter is even worse. Given its rate of fire the stormbolter should more likely be looked at as like a possible smaller version of the assault cannon and perhaps 4 shots at s4 ap4 with rending would work. However then we get back to the grey knights and if that's a good idea on a larger scale. So that's kind of why I think they should just give terminators a different version of the stormbolter rather than a global change to stormbolters cause we all know GW won't look at things outside of a vacuum and thus likely screw that up too.

What toes? The Heavy Bolter HAS nothing going for it anyway. Besides, everyone already knows they should be Heavy 4 or Salvo 2/4.

T3 armies don't suffer from t3 as much as a lack of gimmicks. I've had games where every wound roll against me was 2+. Tell me again how great t4 is.

 Backspacehacker wrote:
There are a few ways they can make them better but first and formost, the storm bolter needs to be a better weapon, tossing rapid fire and rending on it would be a damn good start
Next, they should get 2 heavy weapon choices

Now to make them not laughable and die they should have either

2 wounds / T5 / Sv 1+ (they still fail armor on a roll of 1 but still get an armor save of 2+ against ap 2)

The other thing, make it so terminators equipped with all melee weapons can charge out of deep strike with out getting the charge bonus attack. Nothing sucks more then deep striking knights, standing there like a jack ass and getting gunned down. Terminators are menat to be shock troopers, not teleport it and pick your nose oh look there is a fight models.

Yes. First time I played Deathwing Knights they got mauled pretty bad just from the amount of shots coming their way. Complete waste of points. Again, a charge with no extra attacks, etc., would do wonders for them.


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 nudibranch wrote:

 CREEEEEEEEED wrote:
1st off, dreadnoughts are actually quite good. Not great, but still good. And 2nd, the leviathan dread, while expensive, is an absolute killing machine. And very tough to kill.

I believe people in this thread are speaking of terminators or 'tactical dreadnought armour', not casterferrum, contemptor, deredeo etc. dreadnoughts.

Also yes, I mainly meant non-FW stuff.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 n0t_u wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 n0t_u wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 n0t_u wrote:
Stormbolters S5 causes more issues though, they need their own version of the thing and that can be S5.

Literally ZERO issues are caused by a S5 universal Storm Bolter. Name one. Please. I insist.

Here's a starter.


Also makes heavy bolters even worse. A stormbolter, if it's getting any changes, should get more shots and/or shred maybe.

So Grey Knights having S5 shooting is an issue? LOL k
Because the codex is super strong as is? Even the 5th edition was designed for 6th anyway and look how powerful it was in 6th. Bad answer but I give you credit for trying.

I was going for the more amusing answer cause like I wasn't quite sure anyway but went with it cause daemons.
I think the issues with the terminators likely only got worse with the release of the centurions as they're kind of like pushed out of what seemed like their role leaving them as expensive glorified tacticals now and last time I checked those sucked too. I don't know, they're meant to be the sledgehammer of the marines but instead we get this.

Still at the same time I don't want to see the stormbolter start stepping on the toes of the heavy bolter as yet another issue is created where the heavy bolter is even worse. Given its rate of fire the stormbolter should more likely be looked at as like a possible smaller version of the assault cannon and perhaps 4 shots at s4 ap4 with rending would work. However then we get back to the grey knights and if that's a good idea on a larger scale. So that's kind of why I think they should just give terminators a different version of the stormbolter rather than a global change to stormbolters cause we all know GW won't look at things outside of a vacuum and thus likely screw that up too.

What toes? The Heavy Bolter HAS nothing going for it anyway. Besides, everyone already knows they should be Heavy 4 or Salvo 2/4.

So why not then just give all the terminators heavy bolters since they have relentless? At least they did last time I checked.

Fixing terminators is quite easy. Make centurions walkers (they are basically space marine warwalkers) Give terms their stat lines and point cost but give terms access to heavy weapons on every model like ceturions - except they take from terminator weapons. Storm shields and assault cannons on every model? Sure if you are willing to pay 85 points per model. Make storm bolters salvo 2/4 when taken in combination with TDA.

That is the kind of unit people need them to be. A tough and flexible fire-base.

To be fair to centurians - make them armor 11/11/10 2 hull points walkers with the same upgrade options they have now but let them be fielded in units of 1-3 and give them the split-fire special rule for 75 points + weapons.

Then to be fair to dreadnoughts. Give them 4 hp and ignore all damage result other than weapon destroyed, and explosion - at no additional point cost.

 n0t_u wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 n0t_u wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 n0t_u wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 n0t_u wrote:
Stormbolters S5 causes more issues though, they need their own version of the thing and that can be S5.

Literally ZERO issues are caused by a S5 universal Storm Bolter. Name one. Please. I insist.

Here's a starter.


Also makes heavy bolters even worse. A stormbolter, if it's getting any changes, should get more shots and/or shred maybe.

So Grey Knights having S5 shooting is an issue? LOL k
Because the codex is super strong as is? Even the 5th edition was designed for 6th anyway and look how powerful it was in 6th. Bad answer but I give you credit for trying.

I was going for the more amusing answer cause like I wasn't quite sure anyway but went with it cause daemons.
I think the issues with the terminators likely only got worse with the release of the centurions as they're kind of like pushed out of what seemed like their role leaving them as expensive glorified tacticals now and last time I checked those sucked too. I don't know, they're meant to be the sledgehammer of the marines but instead we get this.

Still at the same time I don't want to see the stormbolter start stepping on the toes of the heavy bolter as yet another issue is created where the heavy bolter is even worse. Given its rate of fire the stormbolter should more likely be looked at as like a possible smaller version of the assault cannon and perhaps 4 shots at s4 ap4 with rending would work. However then we get back to the grey knights and if that's a good idea on a larger scale. So that's kind of why I think they should just give terminators a different version of the stormbolter rather than a global change to stormbolters cause we all know GW won't look at things outside of a vacuum and thus likely screw that up too.

What toes? The Heavy Bolter HAS nothing going for it anyway. Besides, everyone already knows they should be Heavy 4 or Salvo 2/4.

So why not then just give all the terminators heavy bolters since they have relentless? At least they did last time I checked.

Why HB when they could all take Assault Cannons? Its waaaayyyy better. And another question for dakka, do they HAVE to keep the storm bolter/AC? Why not give them a grav option. They are relentless after all and there aren't a whole lot of marines that can't take this anyways. Seems kinda silly that the elite 1st company can't take the best weapons while my scout sergeant can run around with a grav pistol all day.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm not saying this would fix everything or make them even remotely close to as good as centurions but it could help.

 ILegion wrote:

 n0t_u wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 n0t_u wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 n0t_u wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 n0t_u wrote:
Stormbolters S5 causes more issues though, they need their own version of the thing and that can be S5.

Literally ZERO issues are caused by a S5 universal Storm Bolter. Name one. Please. I insist.

Here's a starter.


Also makes heavy bolters even worse. A stormbolter, if it's getting any changes, should get more shots and/or shred maybe.

So Grey Knights having S5 shooting is an issue? LOL k
Because the codex is super strong as is? Even the 5th edition was designed for 6th anyway and look how powerful it was in 6th. Bad answer but I give you credit for trying.

I was going for the more amusing answer cause like I wasn't quite sure anyway but went with it cause daemons.
I think the issues with the terminators likely only got worse with the release of the centurions as they're kind of like pushed out of what seemed like their role leaving them as expensive glorified tacticals now and last time I checked those sucked too. I don't know, they're meant to be the sledgehammer of the marines but instead we get this.

Still at the same time I don't want to see the stormbolter start stepping on the toes of the heavy bolter as yet another issue is created where the heavy bolter is even worse. Given its rate of fire the stormbolter should more likely be looked at as like a possible smaller version of the assault cannon and perhaps 4 shots at s4 ap4 with rending would work. However then we get back to the grey knights and if that's a good idea on a larger scale. So that's kind of why I think they should just give terminators a different version of the stormbolter rather than a global change to stormbolters cause we all know GW won't look at things outside of a vacuum and thus likely screw that up too.

What toes? The Heavy Bolter HAS nothing going for it anyway. Besides, everyone already knows they should be Heavy 4 or Salvo 2/4.

So why not then just give all the terminators heavy bolters since they have relentless? At least they did last time I checked.

Why HB when they could all take Assault Cannons? Its waaaayyyy better. And another question for dakka, do they HAVE to keep the storm bolter/AC? Why not give them a grav option. They are relentless after all and there aren't a whole lot of marines that can't take this anyways. Seems kinda silly that the elite 1st company can't take the best weapons while my scout sergeant can run around with a grav pistol all day.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm not saying this would fix everything or make them even remotely close to as good as centurions but it could help.

Grav is a newer type weapon. TDA is old. I think whatever changes are made to terms their weapon options need to remain the same. See my post above I think it's a nice way to adress both units and give them each a viable roll.

 Xenomancers wrote:
Fixing terminators is quite easy. Make centurions walkers (they are basically space marine warwalkers) Give terms their stat lines and point cost but give terms access to heavy weapons on every model like ceturions - except they take from terminator weapons. Storm shields and assault cannons on every model? Sure if you are willing to pay 85 points per model. Make storm bolters salvo 2/4 when taken in combination with TDA.

That is the kind of unit people need them to be. A tough and flexible fire-base.

To be fair to centurians - make them armor 11/11/10 2 hull points walkers with the same upgrade options they have now but let them be fielded in units of 1-3 and give them the split-fire special rule for 75 points + weapons.

Then to be fair to dreadnoughts. Give them 4 hp and ignore all damage result other than weapon destroyed, and explosion - at no additional point cost.

I don't play with centurions but i'm not a fan of most walker rules as is. I think making them 11/11/10 would be a huge nerf without an armor save to go along with it, otherwise they will be as fragile as dreadnoughts are now. Not sure 4 HP and ignoring all damage - weapons destoryed/explode would work for dreadnoughts anyways. I still like Spikey Bits idea of giving dreadnoughts a T value and armor save. If you changed centurions i'd say do the same for them.


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 Xenomancers wrote:

 ILegion wrote:

 n0t_u wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 n0t_u wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 n0t_u wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 n0t_u wrote:
Stormbolters S5 causes more issues though, they need their own version of the thing and that can be S5.

Literally ZERO issues are caused by a S5 universal Storm Bolter. Name one. Please. I insist.

Here's a starter.


Also makes heavy bolters even worse. A stormbolter, if it's getting any changes, should get more shots and/or shred maybe.

So Grey Knights having S5 shooting is an issue? LOL k
Because the codex is super strong as is? Even the 5th edition was designed for 6th anyway and look how powerful it was in 6th. Bad answer but I give you credit for trying.

I was going for the more amusing answer cause like I wasn't quite sure anyway but went with it cause daemons.
I think the issues with the terminators likely only got worse with the release of the centurions as they're kind of like pushed out of what seemed like their role leaving them as expensive glorified tacticals now and last time I checked those sucked too. I don't know, they're meant to be the sledgehammer of the marines but instead we get this.

Still at the same time I don't want to see the stormbolter start stepping on the toes of the heavy bolter as yet another issue is created where the heavy bolter is even worse. Given its rate of fire the stormbolter should more likely be looked at as like a possible smaller version of the assault cannon and perhaps 4 shots at s4 ap4 with rending would work. However then we get back to the grey knights and if that's a good idea on a larger scale. So that's kind of why I think they should just give terminators a different version of the stormbolter rather than a global change to stormbolters cause we all know GW won't look at things outside of a vacuum and thus likely screw that up too.

What toes? The Heavy Bolter HAS nothing going for it anyway. Besides, everyone already knows they should be Heavy 4 or Salvo 2/4.

So why not then just give all the terminators heavy bolters since they have relentless? At least they did last time I checked.

Why HB when they could all take Assault Cannons? Its waaaayyyy better. And another question for dakka, do they HAVE to keep the storm bolter/AC? Why not give them a grav option. They are relentless after all and there aren't a whole lot of marines that can't take this anyways. Seems kinda silly that the elite 1st company can't take the best weapons while my scout sergeant can run around with a grav pistol all day.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm not saying this would fix everything or make them even remotely close to as good as centurions but it could help.

Grav is a newer type weapon. TDA is old. I think whatever changes are made to terms their weapon options need to remain the same. See my post above I think it's a nice way to adress both units and give them each a viable roll.

And that's a fair point if say, they can't retro fit grav to terminator armor for a grav cannon. Still wouldn't explain why they couldn't strap to grav guns together to replace the storm bolter though.

I'd rather just have the nerf to Grav Guns rather then slapping them on every single thing in existence to make things work.

I'm seriously sure I saw an IG improvement to make grav tanks and grav sponsons at this point.

Let's just give everyoen grav guns and be done with it. Slap 'em on the guardsmen even.

 Melissia wrote:
Let's just give everyoen grav guns and be done with it. Slap 'em on the guardsmen even.

Yep, pretty much were I'm at. I don't think Grav is going anywhere at this point and feel like it's fighting an uphill battle asking for less. I'd rather just let everyone have access to it and move on.


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 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
I'd rather just have the nerf to Grav Guns rather then slapping them on every single thing in existence to make things work.

I'm seriously sure I saw an IG improvement to make grav tanks and grav sponsons at this point.

Pretty sure I saw this to.

Dreadnoughts should have grav-cannons on both arms too

Sonic Keyboard wrote:
Dreadnoughts should have grav-cannons on both arms too

Is this sarcasm or serious? Sincerely asking and not trying to be a jerk?

Sonic Keyboard wrote:
Dreadnoughts should have grav-cannons on both arms too

At least the primary gun arm.

Would be a reason to get old players to buy more if they re-cut the dread kit (which needs it). Sort of like the only reason most older player picked up new tac/dev squads was the grav weapons they added to them with the latest revision. It’s not like I needed more power armored bodies.

Ah ok. Yeah. I can get behind that. Making grav an option as a primary arm would help them out tremendously. They definitely need a new design to.

Well grav is that rare weapon for the most trusted people in the Imperium, and I think dreads / terms should get it too if devastators do.

Also grav's the only answer to all these op mcs.

As for terminators, the solution is to make them each have a heavy weapon option, add grav-cannons in there, increase T to 5 so they aren't butchered by grots, and personal teleporters gk-style (jump). Then there will be a point to take them in current meta.

I don't know why the let dreadnoughts and terminators get to the point they're at anyways. They were some of the first models I had back in like 3rd edition and the biggest reason I got into 40k. Kind of like how I hear so many people say they start playing because they loved CSM and, until recently, they've been pretty lackluster.


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Sonic Keyboard wrote:
Well grav is that rare weapon for the most trusted people in the Imperium, and I think dreads / terms should get it too if devastators do.

Also grav's the only answer to all these op mcs.

As for terminators, the solution is to make them each have a heavy weapon option, add grav-cannons in there, increase T to 5 so they aren't butchered by grots, and personal teleporters gk-style (jump). Then there will be a point to take them in current meta.

Why not at least let Venerable dreads have it? I've thought about the personal teleporter thing and that feels to much like a GK thing to me. Plus that's one of the few things GK have going for them. On the same topic though i'm really not sure how else you can fix their mobility issues.

 n0t_u wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 n0t_u wrote:
Stormbolters S5 causes more issues though, they need their own version of the thing and that can be S5.

Literally ZERO issues are caused by a S5 universal Storm Bolter. Name one. Please. I insist.

Here's a starter.


Also makes heavy bolters even worse. A stormbolter, if it's getting any changes, should get more shots and/or shred maybe.

TBH having storm bolters be str 5 isn't that big of a problem when taking into account grey Knights only get like, 20 models base. TBH having this would probably be a healthy change for grey Knights, and making force turn weapons into ap 2 would be nice too. Even then strike teams may still suck.


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BrianDavion wrote:

 Jaxler wrote:
What happens to paladins once all terminators get 2 wounds or whatever?

they can eaither be changed with a knew paladin specific kit (perhaps let them take storm shields in addition to a sword and bolter, basicly the way way Dragio is) or given differant stats (give em +1 to WS and BS) given another wound, for 3 wound termies... or just removed. lot's of options. givbing em +1WS and BS would be a very minor change that'd proably be welcome.

Frankly paladins shouldn't be removed, they're important for grey Knights IMO who've so few models/units. I'd either make them 3 wounds or make them get the bonus bs/ws.

To be frank, the entire Grey Knights codex should be removed in favor of a leaner more streamlined 8th edition. But that's neither here nor there.

There's no reason a Paladin having 2 wounds should preclude all terminators getting 2. They could just give Paladins Eternal Warrior to prevent instant death to compensate. They could give all terminators a FNP and make Paladins 1 better. Tons of options really.

The only thing that would really get carried away imo is the base 5 toughness being turned to 6 with MoN.

Nvs wrote:
To be frank, the entire Grey Knights codex should be removed in favor of a leaner more streamlined 8th edition. But that's neither here nor there.

There's no reason a Paladin having 2 wounds should preclude all terminators getting 2. They could just give Paladins Eternal Warrior to prevent instant death to compensate. They could give all terminators a FNP and make Paladins 1 better. Tons of options really.

The only thing that would really get carried away imo is the base 5 toughness being turned to 6 with MoN.

I don't play CSM so just asking, would it be possible to give a slight points increase to termies with MoN to compensate?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Actually i'm not sure this would work unless they had Nurgle termies instead of MoN. Increasing MoN period would effect to much other stuff.

 ILegion wrote:

Nvs wrote:
To be frank, the entire Grey Knights codex should be removed in favor of a leaner more streamlined 8th edition. But that's neither here nor there.

There's no reason a Paladin having 2 wounds should preclude all terminators getting 2. They could just give Paladins Eternal Warrior to prevent instant death to compensate. They could give all terminators a FNP and make Paladins 1 better. Tons of options really.

The only thing that would really get carried away imo is the base 5 toughness being turned to 6 with MoN.

I don't play CSM so just asking, would it be possible to give a slight points increase to termies with MoN to compensate?

You'd just have to increase the cost of the MoN upgrade for the Terminators.

Well the Mark isn't free, so yea they could just increase the Cost of the Mark of Nurgle to compensate.

But the idea of a T6 basic Terminator unit really is absurd imo. Bikers get T6 too I believe and aren't they often complained about?

Quick solution to the Terminator armour problem:

Reduce AP2 of Imperial Plasma Guns/Plasma Pistols and their Xenos versions to AP3. Add a special rule to Terminator armour to improve the survivability vs. small arms fire:

Tactical Dreadnought Armour:
You may reroll failed armour saves.

Ork Mega armour could also benefit from this special rule.

Gravguns are also supposed to be an issue but I am not familiar with their rules. You could reduce their AP value as well, restrict their proliferation or just abolish them.

If Terminators still suck in your opinion, keep in mind they were built for battles in confined spaces. So grab a copy of Space Hulk and have a blast shooting Genestealers to slimy bits.

II'm not too thrilled by the idea of major stormbolter buffs, though admittedly that's because if they get stronger they're likely to remain a terminator only weapon, and I'm hoping they'll eventually be something that regular tac sqauds can take as upgrades.

I'd lean more toward either an extra wound/toughness point (think wounds might the better one so centurions have their own role), or some serious price drops on terminators and their upgrades, and perhaps wider availability. Maybe not to deathwatch "you get an assault cannon, you get an assault cannon, everyone get's an assault cannon...oh, and some missiles" level (though that on a cheaper model or the same model with cheaper weapons would rock), but it's annoying how rare they are currently, at least outside of vehicles and aircraft (and even still you can only take it on two vehicles).

I think either termies needa be harder to kill, shootier or choppier, or just cost less.

I wouldn't use grav as the barometer for balance. It fits a very specific purpose, it is an anti-terminator and anti-mc weapon. Scissors is strong against paper. If grav suddenly stopped existing, plasma would still ruin terminators days. 4 plasma shots from a 5 man tac squad will hurt you.

Personally I wouldn't mind seeing terminators go from a 2+/5++ to a 3+/5++ with 2 wounds and 5 toughness.

Because it's not just grav that makes them struggle.

1) They have low initiative in melee relative to other melee units. For example, A death company throwing out 40 attacks on charge at I5 will handle your 2+ save termies no problem.

2) Their mobility is terrible, and they can only take dedicated transports that themselves are overcosted and very vulnerable.

3) Their shooting options are meh. They have no way to take advantage of their relentless platform, really. Allow them to ALL have a power fist and a heavy flamer as stock options and we'll talk. Or, something better than a storm bolter. At least a hurricane bolter.

Basically they can't out-shoot shooty units, they can't out-melee squads designed for it, and they can't tank any sustained fire because there's so much AP2, or mass fire, that 1 wound and weak toughness means they're dropping too fast.

Hopefully some of those issues will be resolved in 8th edition. If GW doesn't do something about the buckets of dice and proliferation of AP2 then the entire update will be a failure imo.

I don't recall if it was discussed on this forum or another so it wasn't my idea and I'm not trying to steal anyone's thunder. But what impact would simply making invulnerable saves being rolled after normal saves do? Especially as a global rule system wide and not just for terminators?

For example, you take a bucket of dice and fail 7 2+ armor saves. You then would roll those 7 against your invulnerable save.

 Red__Thirst wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Same thing for Meganobz. They already have a 2 wound profile. Just leave them as is.

you take a look at how much meganobz cost compared to termies lately?