Song of Ice & Fire Minatures Game by CMON - KS successful (pg 19)

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**Aeneades**

infinite_array wrote:
Aeneades wrote:

I don't see this unit as a problem at all, the article makes it clear that these is a House Umber unit and the main compliant is that they were not referred to as Bezerkers in the books but there are going to have to be instances where CMON gives new names to units to differentiate between all the different unit types.

Yeah, I suppose the complaints are coming from people assuming that "taken from the books" means "looks like Perry Miniatures" and not "we can't use the likenesses of the TV characters."

The complaint on the Facebook page is that there is no reference to House Umber having a unit called Bezerkers in their army so they should not be a unit in the game. The trouble is that no faction really have detailed troop descriptions within the books so if you just stick to the books you end up with "Stark Swordsman", "Stark Archers", "House Umber Swordsman", "House Umber Archers", etc without much flavour to them. I can see why CMON are adding more flavour with the names.

I still remember the outrage when Fantasy Flight made a Shieldmaidens of House Mormont unit for Battles of Westeros (this is more of an issue though Mormont fielding female warriors is never mentioned but Umbra did field male melee troops which are all these Bezerkers are but with a fancier name).

**Digclaw**

I don't see this as a problem, because the Song of Ice and Fire license they are using requires GRRM's approval for everything.

**DaveC**

Yep girl with dire wolf is Sansa

**Gallahad**

That direwolf sculpt is pretty....dire...

**Pacific**

It's a pup!

Suppose that CMoN are walking a fine line of keeping the fans of the series happy by staying true to the source material, but also adding enough variety to have a tactical wargames. Perhaps adding enough spice also do that you are doing something other than just having a historical game (and may as well be playing LDLG or similar)

The above examples cited sound fine to me, it's not like they are introducing dire Wolf cavalry, giant skeletons or burrowing dwarven infantry (or other similar stuff that would indicate they definitely don't care about the source material)

**JimmyWolf87**

I see it as more an issue of semantics as anything; even die-hard fans would likely recognise the wish to add variety and character to different House/Unit types. The term 'Berserker' just appears to conjure up images of frothing suicidal madmen which doesn't really fit with the setting (in most instances) or even the models we've seen.

I doubt there would be this level of complaint if they'd use something like 'Shieldbreaker' or 'Headsmen'.

**AAN**

Interesting.
To be honest I did not liked the Setting of GoT, but both my wife and me were quickly hooked by the great Story.
So as said I am interested, then I saw - big massed battle... meh!

But hopefully they will include a Zombicide Black Plague Crossover!
(The mountain already sneaked in Black Plague GH)

**Ginsu33**

Least this game will have more combat than the actual show...

**JimmyWolf87**

Ginsu33 wrote:
Least this game will have more combat than the actual show...

You mean we get to re-create Jon's tactical 'genius' of the Battle of the Bastards? Rumours are his model will bring the 'Leeroy Jenkins' special rule to the table.

Also by show rules, if Tyrion takes any damage in turn 1 of the game then the controlling player gets to go and have a nap for 2 hours and can take no active part but automatically wins the Battle.

**DaveC**

Catelyn Stark

**Barzam**

I'm absolutely not interested in a Song of Ice and Fire wargame, but I have to admit, the Lannister troops look rather nice, for generic vaguely fantasy knights types.

**MDSW**

Please, I am looking for something to replace the miserable M@As I have for the KoW Basileans. Some of these sculpts look promising, but, alas, I think the scale is off - what did I read, 35mm?

**Abanshee**

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Others as an army. That would certainly shake up the gameplay a bit. Also, dragons would change gameplay as well

**DaveC**

**Nostromodamus**

I watched a gameplay preview of this and was just constantly thinking I'd rather just play KoW.

Probably gonna sit this one out.

**infinite_array**

Nostromodamus wrote:
I watched a gameplay preview of this and was just constantly thinking I'd rather just play KoW.

Probably gonna sit this one out.

If I'm thinking of the same gameplay demo that you watched, to be fair, KoW would look like a pile of gak as well if the promotional video was that bad.

**DarknessEternal**

Yes, because Cersei would be in or near a battle. That makes perfect sense and does nothing to illustrate how this is just a vapid cash grab. Nothing at all.

**Aeneades**

DarknessEternal wrote:
Yes, because Cersei would be in or near a battle. That makes perfect sense and does nothing to illustrate how this is just a vapid cash grab. Nothing at all.

Cersei is one of the non combat unit who are not present on the battle field but instead work behind the scenes to secure a political or tactical advantage for their army.

https://cmon.com/news/a-song-of-ice-and-fire-tabletop-miniatures-game-the-hidden-side-of-war

Wars are not solely  fought on the battlefield. Behind the scenes, there is political maneuvering, shady deals, and outright backstabbing. It takes a mind that can see a complex situation from all angles to change the tide of a conflict in their favor. In The War of the Five Kings, forces clash on the fields of Westeros. But removed from the frontline, many influential figures work to control the outcome. In A Song of Ice and Fire: Tabletop Miniatures Game (ASOIF:TMG), you need to balance  commanding  your troops on the field  with  working  to put yourself in a better tactical position for victory.

While Combat Units (CUs) position themselves and ready for assault, alliances are being formed, plots  are  being crafted, and political machinations  are  taking shape. This is all represented via the Tactics Board  and  Non-Combat Units (NCU).

**Nostromodamus**

infinite_array wrote:
Nostromodamus wrote:
I watched a gameplay preview of this and was just constantly thinking I'd rather just play KoW.

Probably gonna sit this one out.

If I'm thinking of the same gameplay demo that you watched, to be fair, KoW would look like a pile of gak as well if the promotional video was that bad.

The BoW one?

Yeah it was fairly gak.

**Zatsuku**

Aeneades wrote:
DarknessEternal wrote:
Yes, because Cersei would be in or near a battle. That makes perfect sense and does nothing to illustrate how this is just a vapid cash grab. Nothing at all.

Cersei is one of the non combat unit who are not present on the battle field but instead work behind the scenes to secure a political or tactical advantage for their army.

https://cmon.com/news/a-song-of-ice-and-fire-tabletop-miniatures-game-the-hidden-side-of-war

Which is one of my favourite features of this game. I kinda feel like people are aiming to hate this no matter what it is. Is it just because it is licensed?

**Nostromodamus**

Zatsuku wrote:
Aeneades wrote:
DarknessEternal wrote:
Yes, because Cersei would be in or near a battle. That makes perfect sense and does nothing to illustrate how this is just a vapid cash grab. Nothing at all.

Cersei is one of the non combat unit who are not present on the battle field but instead work behind the scenes to secure a political or tactical advantage for their army.

https://cmon.com/news/a-song-of-ice-and-fire-tabletop-miniatures-game-the-hidden-side-of-war

Which is one of my favourite features of this game. I kinda feel like people are aiming to hate this no matter what it is. Is it just because it is licensed?

From what I saw I just didn't feel excited about it, though that may be down to presentation.

I'll give it a second look when the KS hits but it's competing with a lot of other stuff* for my money.

* Fallout, Zombicide: Green Tide, Bones 4, 40k 8th.

**ced1106**

"The call to war has been sounded, and on July 25 at 3:00pm EST, A Song of Ice and Fire: Tabletop Miniatures Game (ASOIF:TMG) from CMON and Dark Sword Miniatures, Inc, launches on Kickstarter."

https://cmon.com/news/a-song-of-ice-and-fire-tabletop-miniatures-game-the-call-to-war

Myself, the political intrigue mechanics look like something new and possibly hybridy to the rank and file table. "When constructing your army, you may spend points to include various NCUs, such as Tyrion Lannister and Catelyn Stark. These allies won’t see combat, but will work their skills aiding the troops none-the-less. During your turn, instead of activating a CU, you may elect to move one of your NCUs onto the Tactics Board, claiming an empty zone. When this is done, you’ll gain an immediate benefit based on where you positioned your NCU, ranging from extra Attacks, bonus Movement, or causing powerful debuffs to enemy Units. In addition, most NCUs also have a unique effect of their own that will trigger when they are moved onto the Tactics Board. In the case of Tyrion, his cunning mind allows you greater access to Tactics Cards, or the ability to deny your opponent cards of their own. More so, if he is placed on the Crown zone of the Tactics board, his influence expands even further, allowing him to choose both effects.Of course, the rewards for claiming a zone go beyond just the immediate benefit! The various Tactics Cards utilized by each player also gain numerous benefits and boosts based on claimed zones of the Tactics Board for the entirety of that game round."

https://cmon.com/news/a-song-of-ice-and-fire-tabletop-miniatures-game-the-hidden-side-of-war

**Pacific**

Really like the idea of the characters outside of the Battle causing machinations with it. Reminds me a bit of the Peter Pig game Bloody Barons, set to cover the war of the roses period, where you had section before the game where bribes and Politics could affect the units you place on the table and their effectiveness.

I guess this actually makes sense if you think that GRRM actually based some of the events in GoT on historical events!

**warboss**

Shouldn't Tyrion be missing his nose? I suppose that's easy to convert on your own though....

**Aeneades**

I would say that miniature represents him at the very start of the war before he lost his nose. I expect at some point we will see an updated version that can be use on the battlefield and another non combat version to represent his time as hand of the king.

**Pacific**

You might also want to represent the TV version and just give him a more family-friendly scar I guess.

Have to say after watching the new series am now going to be completely along for the ride with this one!

**infinite_array**

More info on Commanders:

Picking the people you want to go into battle with is not a decision to make lightly. Choosing the person to lead you into the fray can be even tougher. With control of all of Westeros at stake, you need to be able to trust your army with your life. In the War of the Five Kings, you can be sure that the other Houses will not give up an inch. In A Song of Ice and Fire: Tabletop Miniatures Game (ASOIF:TMG), you recruit your soldiers and choose someone to lead the charge into battle. The person you pick will have a great effect on the way you play, and whether you find glory or death on the battlefield.

We previously looked at Combat Unit (CU) Attachments, but there is one more aspect of them to explore.

Certain figures in the game are Commanders. When constructing your army, you will always choose one Army Commander; a renowned hero that will shape how your army plays and operates. More often than not, your Commander will also be a CU Attachment, taking to the battlefield to personally join in the fight. In that way, they act as a standard CU Attachment.

The big difference from other Attachments, however, is how they manipulate your Tactics Deck. Each faction has access to its own deck of cards, 14 in total (two copies of seven unique cards) that make up the unique strategies and methods of that faction. When you pick an Army Commander, they also add six of their own cards (usually three unique cards, two copies of each) to your Tactics Deck, giving you a total of 20 cards.

You start with three Tactics Cards and refill your hand back up to three at the start of each round. Each Tactic Card lists when it can be played, as well as its immediate effect. In addition to this, most Tactics Cards will grant additional bonuses depending on if you control various areas of the Tactics Board. In the above example, we have the House Stark Tactics Card Winter is Coming, which cripples enemy CUs by making them Panicked and Vulnerable, thus becoming easy prey for a Stark assault! Should you also control the Swords area of the Tactics Board, the enemy can’t resist the negatives instilled by the cards, such is House Stark’s military might! 

As previously mentioned, your army Commander is going to add their own Tactics Cards to the deck (almost a full 1/3 of it). This, in turn, also manipulates the overall strategy you employ. For example, in the ASOIF:TMG Starter Set - Stark vs. Lannister you will have access to two Commanders on each side. For the Starks this means Greajon Umber: Lord of Last Hearth and Robb Stark: The Young Wolf. If you choose Greatjon as your Commander, his specific Tactics Cards are going to make your CUs become all the deadlier as they come closer to being wiped out- really embodying the “berserker” play style of House Umber as a whole.

Contrast this to an army led by Robb, whose cards focus on swift maneuverability and a focus on hitting the enemy in their weak-spots. Your army won’t have the raw hitting power that you had with Greatjon, but you’ll more than make up for that with speed and cunning.

It is in this way that, even if two players were commanding the exact same units, their overall tactics, strategy, and play style can be vastly different!

Combat is a tug-of-war, with each side looking for any advantage they can get. A wise leader will know when is the right time to make an assault on the enemy and when they should move themselves into a more tactically sound position.

In ASOIF:TMG you will have to make critical decisions with the life of your troops hanging in the balance. No one said war was easy, but make the right choices and take some well-timed risks and you might must find yourself ascending to the Iron Throne. Your leadership will be put to the test when ASOIF:TMG comes to Kickstarter on July 25 at 3 PM EST.

Seems like a mechanic from Wrath of Kings, where you pick a Leader model to be the force's commander, which gives a special Training benefit to all models in the force. Tactics cards look cool as well.

**Mr Morden**

Shame its only the books - was hoping for a Ramsey figure with a bow and maybe a Rickon target model....

**scarletsquig**

It looks interesting, will probably back this with an eye towards using the minis for KoW once the hype has died down, from the looks of things, the trays will make that conversion quite easy, and they look like they'll be useful for either skirmish or rank-and-file in pretty much any fantasy game.

I can see it being a good investment, the market for fantasy humans has been really weak ever since GW scrapped its range and replaced it with more space marines.

And KoW has a lot of suitable army lists (Kingdoms of Men, Varangur, Brotherhood, Undead/ Empire of Dust/ Abyssals) for them to fit into. I know someone with a full GoT-themed Brotherhood army already.

Hopefully not too much KS-exclusive nonsense although knowing CMoN that'll be half the minis in the entire range...

**DaveC**

scarletsquig wrote:
It looks interesting, will probably back this with an eye towards using the minis for KoW once the hype has died down, from the looks of things, the trays will make that conversion quite easy, and they look like they'll be useful for either skirmish or rank-and-file in pretty much any fantasy game.

I can see it being a good investment, the market for fantasy humans has been really weak ever since GW scrapped its range and replaced it with more space marines.

And KoW has a lot of suitable army lists (Kingdoms of Men, Varangur, Brotherhood, Undead/ Empire of Dust/ Abyssals) for them to fit into. I know someone with a full GoT-themed Brotherhood army already.

Hopefully not too much KS-exclusive nonsense although knowing CMoN that'll be half the minis in the entire range...

That's pretty much where I'm at with the ASOFAI KS - miniatures for use in KoW if suitably priced I've little interest in picking up another fantasy rule set (I'm more interested in SciFi) and what I've seen of the rules doesn't interest me. CMoN usually gives you your monies worth of miniatures but lots of KS exclusive heroes arent much use in a tabletop war game. I'm also concerned that stuff like archers will be paid add ons and the price could quickly get out of hand.