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I'm looking at this and I'm thinking '...where are his fingers?' He just has one huge blob where fingers should be

Isn't that the back of the hand? Fingers are on the other side

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
Isn't that the back of the hand? Fingers are on the other side

The one on the sword pommel, I'm guessing. They should be fingers.

Yes. There should be fingers. I would have thought it'd have been fairly obvious which hand I was talking about. It's the one on the sword pommel

Hmm, I'd need to see some painted stuff before I bought any.

The HBO stuff kinda killed my love for the setting as I'm a book only fan and...yeah, tough to keep enjoying it when the more popular part is so vulgar and you have no idea about it.

Cavalry might be a certain buy, though.

ced1106 wrote:
It's still boardgame plastic, so it won't be.

Might have some luck finding a display-level 3d model from a fan or such.

Unless they do resin casts as well of some of the minis, which (some) other KS of this type do.

The Blood Rage Vikings are excellent (outside of bendy weapons) and I would get minis of that quality for ASOIAF (no, it's not "GoT", stupid tv). Stuff like shrinkage is accounted for, the lack of posing options is made up by excellent layering of equipment and clothing that multi part kits can't do and Remy Tremblay is simply one of the best sculptors for humans in that scale. The shields are incredible. Clean up sucks, but mold lines are fainter than many i've seen after people cleaned their HIPS stuff.

I'd prefer a skirmish rule set with only low key character abilities, though. Bloody Mummers vs BwoB or raiders vs Nightwatch, Lannister foragers vs a band of deserters and Broken, things like that*. Or an all-out Warmaster-like with thousands of heavy horse and M@As and levvies in small scale foghting over the Riverlands or ending the Greyjoy Rebellion, but CMON doesn't have the equipment to make stuff that small, I guess...and an ant-sized KS exclusive model of Arya as Cat probably wouldn't add as much backer money


*I thought about LotR rules, but it turns out they're not that easy to get as one would think and I know only a bit about them from WD battle reports, so I don't want to shell out ebay money. Or use SAGA instead?

I guess...and an ant-sized KS exclusive model of Arya as Cat probably wouldn't add as much backer money  

Hahaha, the kickstarter would be for the small iron base to keep the model from blowing away.

A warmaster version of this (heck, of anything) would be top of my purchase list.

So... why do they need a Kickstarter for this exactly? I mean, a company that can afford the Song of Ice & Fire license surely can't be so cash-strapped that they can't make the game itself after splurging on the rights?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So... why do they need a Kickstarter for this exactly? I mean, a company that can afford the Song of Ice & Fire license surely can't be so cash-strapped that they can't make the game itself after splurging on the rights?

KS is sometimes used more as a way to advertise and get word out rather than raise money. It also helps with gauging interest and avoid making too much product and end up with unsold stock.

 Smokestack wrote:
I kind of wish that the HBO show was the source... Only because they armies are pretty distinct as far as look/theme. I want to see a big Giant... To smash the other little mens...

Agreed

This one being just Stark's vs Lanisters means I will pass and see if they make anything interesting later - Dani, Dragons, Unsullied, Dothraki, Giants

 Zywus wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So... why do they need a Kickstarter for this exactly? I mean, a company that can afford the Song of Ice & Fire license surely can't be so cash-strapped that they can't make the game itself after splurging on the rights?

KS is sometimes used more as a way to advertise and get word out rather than raise money. It also helps with gauging interest and avoid making too much product and end up with unsold stock.

Crowdfunding is a really good way to promote a game, as people will promote it for you if they're interested so their mates come and pledge too. It doesn't preclude a normal retail release down the line, anyway.

 Bull0 wrote:

 Zywus wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So... why do they need a Kickstarter for this exactly? I mean, a company that can afford the Song of Ice & Fire license surely can't be so cash-strapped that they can't make the game itself after splurging on the rights?

KS is sometimes used more as a way to advertise and get word out rather than raise money. It also helps with gauging interest and avoid making too much product and end up with unsold stock.

Crowdfunding is a really good way to promote a game, as people will promote it for you if they're interested so their mates come and pledge too. It doesn't preclude a normal retail release down the line, anyway.

From the above comments it appears that CMON will be releasing a retail exclusive second starter set three months after release of the kickstarter funded box so they are making an effort to support retail stores whilst securing the promotion that only Kickstarter campaigns seem to be able to provide (outside of Games Workshop and the Star Wars licence).

Here's the Rising Sun Retail Pledge terms which should give *some* sort of idea where CMON is going with retail. https://cmon.com/news/rising-sun-kickstarter-retail-pledge

I think this is great. You'll note that the retail pledge cuts out the distributor, giving the retailers the 40% discount distributors would normally receive and expect. Distributors, btw, "cherry pick" what they will carry, which means someone *else* is choosing which games are going to market, not you.

Here's Reaper MIniature's State of the Industry from 2012 for their opinion about how the distributor-retailer model isn't working for them, and, implicitly, one of the reasons why they used KS for their plastic Bones line. (ObPlug: Another one coming this year!): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7dj2IcgH3w

Who knows -- pretty obviously, an experienced KS company has the shipping logistics that your typical retail game company doesn't, and CMON has many well-known titles. Perhaps we'll finally see a game company that can become a distributor of its own games, and perhaps others (y'know, like how CMON sold other company's miniatures before KS).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Stolen from BGG:




Dark Sword Miniatures: http://www.darkswordminiatures.com/

Sining wrote:

Spoiler:

I'm looking at this and I'm thinking '...where are his fingers?' He just has one huge blob where fingers should be

Man, that does not look up to Blood Rage quality at all!

I love the idea of a ranked game from CMON, but the models posted last page don't look that interesting, either. Hoping for more!

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So... why do they need a Kickstarter for this exactly? I mean, a company that can afford the Song of Ice & Fire license surely can't be so cash-strapped that they can't make the game itself after splurging on the rights?

Dark Sword Miniatures Has the Licence not CMON, that is why they are teamed up. Dark Sword make great Minis, and CMON Publishes games

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So... why do they need a Kickstarter for this exactly?

So... how many base game units will they sell, exactly?

I can't find estimates publishers use to determine retail demand, but, at least with KS, you know how many units your backers want. Although -- or because -- miniatures wargaming that's boardgamer-friendly is a new area for CMON (and much of the industry if you don't include Clix and other CMG's) they'll want some numbers for a starting point for retail sales of other base games and expansions. I mean, you probably don't care if there's an overstock of base game product, but I'm sure CMON does. CMON's also done KS for several years now, and maybe they have a competent formula to estimate retail sales based on backer pledges.

CMON and other game companies still sell games through traditional distributor-retailer channels, so, if you want to give your money to the middleman instead of the publisher (or yourself), go right ahead.

 RiTides wrote:

Sining wrote:

Spoiler:

I'm looking at this and I'm thinking '...where are his fingers?' He just has one huge blob where fingers should be

Man, that does not look up to Blood Rage quality at all!

I love the idea of a ranked game from CMON, but the models posted last page don't look that interesting, either. Hoping for more!

I wonder if they're based on the existing GoT minis ? If so it could be the sculpting style doesn't suit transition to PVC via scanning (ie shallower, finer details), they'll be tweeked to a degree but how far they can do so I'm not sure without effectively getting a digital sculptor to re-do them (which the licence may not allow)

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:

 RiTides wrote:

Sining wrote:

Spoiler:

I'm looking at this and I'm thinking '...where are his fingers?' He just has one huge blob where fingers should be

Man, that does not look up to Blood Rage quality at all!

I love the idea of a ranked game from CMON, but the models posted last page don't look that interesting, either. Hoping for more!

I wonder if they're based on the existing GoT minis ? If so it could be the sculpting style doesn't suit transition to PVC via scanning (ie shallower, finer details), they'll be tweeked to a degree but how far they can do so I'm not sure without effectively getting a digital sculptor to re-do them (which the licence may not allow)

They appear to be entirely new sculpts. I went through the entire range over on the Dark Sword webstore and the new ones are entirely different designs, example is The Mountain which you can see the two different versions of behind the spoiler tags below -



I believe that Dark Sword focus on traditional sculpting methods for pewter miniatures where as the game will be digital sculpts designed for plastic.

I wonder if the poor detail sculpts on display are quick 3D prints produced so that they had something to show as the one with no fingers is definitely not up to the usual CMON standard with all the details way too shallow.

Well, they brought it to the show so it's really on them. Don't think any of the other minis are that bad so I don't think it's an issue of the 3d printing (assuming the others are also 3d printed)

Did anyone see if they mentioned movement? The trays are "sort of" off putting to me personally, but if it's also templated movement like X-Wing or RuneWars, I may just be out.

If it's "inches" and you can micromanage your movement a bit, I'll be more interested.

The pictures shown had rulers in them, so I assume 'inches', not templates ...

I'd love a good GoT mass battles game, but I have reservations about this,

Pre-assembled mini's - I read that as badly assembled by a factory worker in china.

Board game plastic - I read a bit bent models

KS - means this is unlikely to turn up before the show has ended

Based on the books - looks nothing like the characters / imagery I'm expecting.

I'll keep an eye on it, but not as super excited by the news as I thought I would be.

No plans for Stannis?

Not in the initial release by the sound of things, although would be very surprised if he didn't feature in future releases.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:

 RiTides wrote:

Sining wrote:

Spoiler:

I'm looking at this and I'm thinking '...where are his fingers?' He just has one huge blob where fingers should be

Man, that does not look up to Blood Rage quality at all!

I love the idea of a ranked game from CMON, but the models posted last page don't look that interesting, either. Hoping for more!

I wonder if they're based on the existing GoT minis ? If so it could be the sculpting style doesn't suit transition to PVC via scanning (ie shallower, finer details), they'll be tweeked to a degree but how far they can do so I'm not sure without effectively getting a digital sculptor to re-do them (which the licence may not allow)

Ultimately I'd be very surprised if CMoN allowed something that was anything other than their best be released. The license is their biggest, and it sounds like they're spending some money in getting some of the highest level talent involved in the project.

If this is the case, and we can expect Zombicide BP as a minimum quality, it does beg the question why they released pics that didn't show their intent in the best possible light. If they are early prototypes it's not really showing the product in a good light..

The only photos so far have been for the game retailers and I suspect they are holding off on officially releasing photos until they have more detailed models.

re: Pommelgate

There are clearly fingers on that hand, and you can clearly see the shadows, and you can clearly see how the user's gakky cameraphone's flash has filled the recessed with light, eliminating the depth and creating the illusion of smoothness.
Notice his left upper thigh. You think that's smooth too?

Primarily, do you think a sculptor would create a model with a bajillion undercuts and fine chainmail detail but not put in the fingers? "gak guys I was so busy with sculpting nostrils and ear-hair that I forgot to sculpt the fingers. And no one noticed, until this astute - and handsome and intelligent - stranger took a pic with his cameraphone!"

Unfortunately, there are very few companies that have grasped the "we really should release nice promo shots of our product before some slow's blurry cameraphone's pics get distributed all over the internet for forum experts to pick apart" concept.

Here's the render from the slide show all the detail is there so it should be fine for the final production miniatures.

Geek and Sundry have an article up not much new http://geekandsundry.com/our-exclusive-preview-of-cmon-games-a-song-of-ice-and-fire/?gallery=300289#gallery

It looks like CMON are using a new harder plastic for the miniatures that deals better with weapons but it's not HIPS or the stuff currently being used in their boardgames.

 Tamereth wrote:
I'd love a good GoT mass battles game, but I have reservations about this,

Those are valid reasons from the Dakka point of view. CMON's not going after the modelists, though. It's fanbase are boardgamers, who do not want to assemble models and are fine with colored boardgame plastic. CMON's boardgame plastic is *much* better than most retail boardgame plastic, but not necessarily plastic purchased by Dakkanauts. The conventional miniature wargames niche, with its models that have to be assembled and painted, has *plenty* of contenders (with FFG's Runewars joining them), and CMON's not going after them.

The game has a political system which looks interesting: "In addition to these familiar elements, A Song of Ice & Fire is also bringing in some really unique aspects of the universe. Some well known characters, such as Cersei Lannister, are not active on the battlefield but can be added to the sidelines of your army. These characters interact with what is called “The Intrigue System” and will provide abilities that represent the machinations and political intrigue that makes up so much of Westeros." -- from the G&S article.

Political system sounds cool, it may be just the type of feature to distinguish the game from other rank & file systems.

I'll probably be in for this one.