Switch Theme:

8th Ed. Grey Knight Tactica Discussion - Mathhammer (Data To be Revised)  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Neophyte undergoing Ritual of Detestation




Grey Knight smite only does 1 mortal wound though (unless daemons). This is the main reason I am confused as I can't see how the libby puts out that much damage
   
Made in au
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






Brisbane, Australia

Yup, a 10+ on Smite is D6 Mortal Wounds.
Also note that GK Librarians don't have Rites of Banishment (or at least I'm 99% sure that's the case), so they are able to use Smite as normal, not the modified '1 mortal wound only/3 mortal wounds if daemon' version.

Multiple thin coats are always better than one thick coat.
 
   
Made in us
Neophyte undergoing Ritual of Detestation




 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Yup, a 10+ on Smite is D6 Mortal Wounds.
Also note that GK Librarians don't have Rites of Banishment (or at least I'm 99% sure that's the case), so they are able to use Smite as normal, not the modified '1 mortal wound only/3 mortal wounds if daemon' version.


Just looked in the book and damn that looks to be correct. I can only take a librarian in terminator armour but then its chapter changes to "Grey Knights" and it has to take powers from the GK list rather than the normal list (unfortunately!). But, as you say, it doesn't say anything about getting the Rites of Banishment rule... well this will be fun!
   
Made in us
Pile of Necron Spare Parts





You don't have to take a Grey Knight Librarian and can opt to take a Normal Librarian if you want. The Grey Knights Chapter list that shows you what can be Grey Knights only say that these datasheets can be Grey Knights, not that they have to.
   
Made in us
Neophyte undergoing Ritual of Detestation




 Hakumei wrote:
You don't have to take a Grey Knight Librarian and can opt to take a Normal Librarian if you want. The Grey Knights Chapter list that shows you what can be Grey Knights only say that these datasheets can be Grey Knights, not that they have to.


If I take a normal librarian though it would need to be from a separate detachment? because the factions do not all match.
   
Made in fi
Water-Caste Negotiator





Kahor wrote:
 Hakumei wrote:
You don't have to take a Grey Knight Librarian and can opt to take a Normal Librarian if you want. The Grey Knights Chapter list that shows you what can be Grey Knights only say that these datasheets can be Grey Knights, not that they have to.


If I take a normal librarian though it would need to be from a separate detachment? because the factions do not all match.


They both have Imperium -keyword so it matches. The Librarian will not benefit from buffs to GK faction models but otherwise it's perfectly legal.


-Heresy grows from idleness- 
   
Made in us
Stoic Grail Knight




Kahor wrote:
 Hakumei wrote:
You don't have to take a Grey Knight Librarian and can opt to take a Normal Librarian if you want. The Grey Knights Chapter list that shows you what can be Grey Knights only say that these datasheets can be Grey Knights, not that they have to.


If I take a normal librarian though it would need to be from a separate detachment? because the factions do not all match.


Detachments only need 1 keyword in common, not all keywords in common.

I imagine our Librarians being exempt will be FAQ'd or removed once we get a Codex. Voldus is a Librarian fluff-wise and his Smite is also weakened. Even Draigo's is.

If you want to use while we've got it though, don't forget to slap a Storm Shield and a Warding Staff on him to for one of the few 2++'s in the game!

Has anyone tried taking Vindicares to snipe Commissars or other leadership buffers against hordes? It seems like the right idea but I'm not getting a good read since in my last 2 games my Assassins only avoided rolling 1's to hit or wound twice.
   
Made in us
Neophyte undergoing Ritual of Detestation




Audustum wrote:
Kahor wrote:
 Hakumei wrote:
You don't have to take a Grey Knight Librarian and can opt to take a Normal Librarian if you want. The Grey Knights Chapter list that shows you what can be Grey Knights only say that these datasheets can be Grey Knights, not that they have to.


If I take a normal librarian though it would need to be from a separate detachment? because the factions do not all match.


Detachments only need 1 keyword in common, not all keywords in common.


Where is this written? Just asking so I can reference it as the only thing I've found in the detachments part of the rulebook is that it says "must be from the same faction".

By your logic I could put Dante as a HQ choice from Blood Angels and then have, say, Conscripts for troops, because they're both Imperium? Or Calgar with Wolf Guard in the same detachment because both are Adeptus Astartes. Right?
   
Made in us
Stoic Grail Knight




Kahor wrote:
Audustum wrote:
Kahor wrote:
 Hakumei wrote:
You don't have to take a Grey Knight Librarian and can opt to take a Normal Librarian if you want. The Grey Knights Chapter list that shows you what can be Grey Knights only say that these datasheets can be Grey Knights, not that they have to.


If I take a normal librarian though it would need to be from a separate detachment? because the factions do not all match.


Detachments only need 1 keyword in common, not all keywords in common.


Where is this written? Just asking so I can reference it as the only thing I've found in the detachments part of the rulebook is that it says "must be from the same faction".

By your logic I could put Dante as a HQ choice from Blood Angels and then have, say, Conscripts for troops, because they're both Imperium? Or Calgar with Wolf Guard in the same detachment because both are Adeptus Astartes. Right?


Yep! That's exactly what you can do.

I don't have the rules in front of me, but here's a YMDC thread about it for Chaos. There are others too I think. Dakka admin posts on this one:

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/728848.page#9436698
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




In the case of the killing 2 separate devastator squads. It did occur over the 7 turns. I teleported to the other side to take an objective with 1 of the 9 librarians. Then used his smite. Rolled a 10 and then a 6. Resulting in a complete wipe of the squad.

Then later in the game teleported another of the librarians, rolled a 5 and 1 for his smite. Used a command point to reroll the 1 and got a 6. Followed with a 5 to wipe out the second squad.

In both cases, those those librarians ended up being a sacrifice as they both took 4 lascannon shots from the predator for well over their 4 wounds. With me failing to take objective each time. But heck, I killed two separate 4 man lascannon devastator squads. Well worth the sacrifice.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/06/18 16:50:07


 
   
Made in us
Neophyte undergoing Ritual of Detestation




Well rolling 6's for damage definitely help!

Hadn't thought about using the command points for rerolling the damage die, good idea.

As I've been reading through the index it looks like deepstriking is a good idea. Paladins with an Apothecary (heal), Brother Captain (double smite range), Brotherhood Ancient (+1LD and +1A) and maybe Draigo (reroll hits) if you have the points seems like a scary unit.

Purifiers seem scary with smite now. They need to get into combat but stormravens are good delivery systems.

What do you guys think? I haven't had a chance to use these combinations yet but they sound good on paper.
   
Made in us
Stoic Grail Knight




One of my favorite combos is a Champion in Blade Stance with Hammerhand. He's wounding even T8 on a 4+ that way. You just have another GK unit Gate him in somewhere.
   
Made in us
Neophyte undergoing Ritual of Detestation




Audustum wrote:
One of my favorite combos is a Champion in Blade Stance with Hammerhand. He's wounding even T8 on a 4+ that way. You just have another GK unit Gate him in somewhere.


Hadn't thought of that, sounds like a good option. My only reservation with any deep strike / gate / teleport strategy that involves a focus on combat is that you need to succeed a 9" charge. Bit of a long shot even if you do maybe use a CP to reroll.
   
Made in us
Stoic Grail Knight




Kahor wrote:
Audustum wrote:
One of my favorite combos is a Champion in Blade Stance with Hammerhand. He's wounding even T8 on a 4+ that way. You just have another GK unit Gate him in somewhere.


Hadn't thought of that, sounds like a good option. My only reservation with any deep strike / gate / teleport strategy that involves a focus on combat is that you need to succeed a 9" charge. Bit of a long shot even if you do maybe use a CP to reroll.


Yeah, I usually strike a durable unit next to him to soak fire. His wounds are low enough he can't get targeted outright.
   
Made in gb
Neophyte undergoing Ritual of Detestation




Audustum wrote:
Kahor wrote:
Audustum wrote:
One of my favorite combos is a Champion in Blade Stance with Hammerhand. He's wounding even T8 on a 4+ that way. You just have another GK unit Gate him in somewhere.


Hadn't thought of that, sounds like a good option. My only reservation with any deep strike / gate / teleport strategy that involves a focus on combat is that you need to succeed a 9" charge. Bit of a long shot even if you do maybe use a CP to reroll.


Yeah, I usually strike a durable unit next to him to soak fire. His wounds are low enough he can't get targeted outright.


Good point! I'm trying to put together a 1500 point list at the moment but I'm finding it difficult to put enough firepower on board. No idea how I'll handle large units of models. (I'm running pure).
   
Made in us
Stoic Grail Knight




Kahor wrote:
Audustum wrote:
Kahor wrote:
Audustum wrote:
One of my favorite combos is a Champion in Blade Stance with Hammerhand. He's wounding even T8 on a 4+ that way. You just have another GK unit Gate him in somewhere.


Hadn't thought of that, sounds like a good option. My only reservation with any deep strike / gate / teleport strategy that involves a focus on combat is that you need to succeed a 9" charge. Bit of a long shot even if you do maybe use a CP to reroll.


Yeah, I usually strike a durable unit next to him to soak fire. His wounds are low enough he can't get targeted outright.


Good point! I'm trying to put together a 1500 point list at the moment but I'm finding it difficult to put enough firepower on board. No idea how I'll handle large units of models. (I'm running pure).


So if you want pure, effective, high-strength shooting, then the Stormraven looks like our best option so far. Dreadnoughts are decent for anti-tank too. The Dreadknight is still a good shooting platform for anti-infantry (go Psilencer and Incinerator since his is 12" range).

Other than that, GW seems to want us to be a largely melee army. I'm not sure what pure GW can really do against a conscript blob, but for Tyranids you can at least target some of their synapse-characters even if they aren't the closest due to their high wound totals. What do you normally see in your meta?
   
Made in us
Neophyte undergoing Ritual of Detestation




Audustum wrote:
Kahor wrote:
Spoiler:
Audustum wrote:
Kahor wrote:
Audustum wrote:
One of my favorite combos is a Champion in Blade Stance with Hammerhand. He's wounding even T8 on a 4+ that way. You just have another GK unit Gate him in somewhere.


Hadn't thought of that, sounds like a good option. My only reservation with any deep strike / gate / teleport strategy that involves a focus on combat is that you need to succeed a 9" charge. Bit of a long shot even if you do maybe use a CP to reroll.


Yeah, I usually strike a durable unit next to him to soak fire. His wounds are low enough he can't get targeted outright.


Good point! I'm trying to put together a 1500 point list at the moment but I'm finding it difficult to put enough firepower on board. No idea how I'll handle large units of models. (I'm running pure).


So if you want pure, effective, high-strength shooting, then the Stormraven looks like our best option so far. Dreadnoughts are decent for anti-tank too. The Dreadknight is still a good shooting platform for anti-infantry (go Psilencer and Incinerator since his is 12" range).

Other than that, GW seems to want us to be a largely melee army. I'm not sure what pure GW can really do against a conscript blob, but for Tyranids you can at least target some of their synapse-characters even if they aren't the closest due to their high wound totals. What do you normally see in your meta?

I'm mostly just playing with my mates at a club so I see quite a variety (we all have multiple armies and with 8th everyone is rethinking). I'll be going up against Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Necrons, Nids and Orks.

I think I will "ok" against the marines and necrons. It's the swarm armies I'm most worried about i.e. not enough shots/attacks. The psychic phase helps a lot with adding extra wounds and I think running purifiers wouldn't be a bad idea (D6 mortal wounds which spill over + shooting + assault).

I have a stormraven that I intend to run (maybe with the purifiers?). I also have 2 dreadnoughts, 3 dreadknights and a bunch of normal marines/terminators.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/19 18:42:42


 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




I have yet to play Tyranid in 8th. I have played and lost a few times against our Astral Militarum player. But, he is discovered he can field quite a few plasma with no fear of accidentally killing his guys on supercharge. Because, well... they are AM and you shouldn't worry if you accidentally kill them.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/19 18:28:02


 
   
Made in us
Neophyte undergoing Ritual of Detestation




Any advice on using Grey Knights to kill a *lot* of Orks/AM/Nids? I know morale-shock is a big thing but I've only had 1 game of 8th so far so I'm still getting used to things.
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar






deleted


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kahor wrote:
Any advice on using Grey Knights to kill a *lot* of Orks/AM/Nids? I know morale-shock is a big thing but I've only had 1 game of 8th so far so I'm still getting used to things.

A lot of strike squad marines with alpha strike with draigo.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/06/19 19:01:10


If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Kid_Kyoto






Probably work

I'm having a hard time picturing anything being more effective than taking a grand master for the reroll 1's, and nothing but squad after squad of 5 man strikes.

That's 10 smites and 148 bolter shots on turn 1 plus whichever special weapons tickle your fancy at 75 power. Points that's probably well under 1500..

Assume all my mathhammer comes from here: https://github.com/daed/mathhammer 
   
Made in us
Poxed Plague Monk




san diego

Has anyone else noticed that there is no way to get a pair of falchions on a model? The entries state that you can swap with a selection from the list but it is a singular one and not a pair.

Also, many characters have to swap their storm bolters for a falchion when a lowly strike squad member gets a sword and storm bolter stock.

All the talk about 9" away after teleport attack is a bit wrong, as you have to set up more than 9" away; so effectively 10" away. Charging in on the turn you teleport in will be a rare occurrence.


Quick question: I know terminators suffer the to hit penalty for firing heavy weapons on the move; do dreadknights and other vehicles suffer this penalty as well?

for 40k

skaven for fantasy. for the under empire!........but it isn't a game anymore.

for infinity 
   
Made in us
Neophyte undergoing Ritual of Detestation




heckler wrote:
Has anyone else noticed that there is no way to get a pair of falchions on a model? The entries state that you can swap with a selection from the list but it is a singular one and not a pair.

Also, many characters have to swap their storm bolters for a falchion when a lowly strike squad member gets a sword and storm bolter stock.

All the talk about 9" away after teleport attack is a bit wrong, as you have to set up more than 9" away; so effectively 10" away. Charging in on the turn you teleport in will be a rare occurrence.


Quick question: I know terminators suffer the to hit penalty for firing heavy weapons on the move; do dreadknights and other vehicles suffer this penalty as well?


I noticed the Falchions part also and haven't found it addressed anywhere (thought I was just being silly).

I have assumed so far that I will not first turn charge because 10" is so difficult. I've considered that I would rather deep strike 12" away, rapid fire and then on the next turn hope to kill enough in overwatch to make the charge fail (I know it'll only be a 6" charge but I can't think of something better).

There's nothing on the dreadknight entry that states that it does *not* suffer the penalty, I guess it does. So he hits on 4's without any other modifiers/rerolls.
   
Made in us
Kid_Kyoto






Probably work

heckler wrote:
Has anyone else noticed that there is no way to get a pair of falchions on a model? The entries state that you can swap with a selection from the list but it is a singular one and not a pair.

Check the Grey Knight Melee Weapons list. A pair of falchions is on there. Of course, I'm bracing myself for the ensuing YMDC argument over what the in-game definition of a 'pair' is, but that's how you do it.


Also, many characters have to swap their storm bolters for a falchion when a lowly strike squad member gets a sword and storm bolter stock.

I feel like I'm missing something here. What characters are you talking about?

Quick question: I know terminators suffer the to hit penalty for firing heavy weapons on the move; do dreadknights and other vehicles suffer this penalty as well?

Unless they have a special rule saying otherwise, like the Leman Russ.

Assume all my mathhammer comes from here: https://github.com/daed/mathhammer 
   
Made in us
Poxed Plague Monk




san diego

 daedalus wrote:
heckler wrote:
Has anyone else noticed that there is no way to get a pair of falchions on a model? The entries state that you can swap with a selection from the list but it is a singular one and not a pair.

Check the Grey Knight Melee Weapons list. A pair of falchions is on there. Of course, I'm bracing myself for the ensuing YMDC argument over what the in-game definition of a 'pair' is, but that's how you do it.


Also, many characters have to swap their storm bolters for a falchion when a lowly strike squad member gets a sword and storm bolter stock.

I feel like I'm missing something here. What characters are you talking about?


I am mistaken about the characters; I misread and misinterpreted the entry last night. The paladin ancient can only have a heavy weapon if he doesn't take the melee weapon; The brotherhood ancient can only take a falchion and no other weapon option.

As far as the falchions, there is no way to get more than one in the wargear list on page222. I'm certain this isn't the intent, but as written you can only take one.

for 40k

skaven for fantasy. for the under empire!........but it isn't a game anymore.

for infinity 
   
Made in us
Kid_Kyoto






Probably work

heckler wrote:

As far as the falchions, there is no way to get more than one in the wargear list on page222. I'm certain this isn't the intent, but as written you can only take one.


That's not what says you can get any of them. That just lists the price for one (which is 0)

Go to page 181 and look at the wargear section there. Under melee weapons GK melee weapons is "Two Nemesis falchions".

Now notice that almost all of the profiles say that they can "replace his Nemesis Force Sword with an item from the GK Melee Weapons list.

Well, one of the items is "two falchions".

Assume all my mathhammer comes from here: https://github.com/daed/mathhammer 
   
Made in us
Neophyte undergoing Ritual of Detestation




[edit] I got ninja'd

On page 181 in the GK melee weapons list it states "Two Nemesis falchions" as an option.

On any entry where it says that the unit/model can take an item from the "grey knights melee weapons" list then they can take a pair as 1 item.

The paladin ancient however can specifically take 1 falchion (not a pair) OR change the storm bolter for any item from the melee list (including a pair).

Does that make sense?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/19 20:38:00


 
   
Made in nz
Regular Dakkanaut




What are you guys seeing as the best troops this edition?
   
Made in us
Kid_Kyoto






Probably work

Kahor wrote:

The paladin ancient however can specifically take 1 falchion (not a pair) OR change the storm bolter for any item from the melee list (including a pair).

Does that make sense?


Pity there's no profile for a Nemesis Force Banner.

Assume all my mathhammer comes from here: https://github.com/daed/mathhammer 
   
Made in us
Pile of Necron Spare Parts





heckler wrote:
Has anyone else noticed that there is no way to get a pair of falchions on a model? The entries state that you can swap with a selection from the list but it is a singular one and not a pair.

Also, many characters have to swap their storm bolters for a falchion when a lowly strike squad member gets a sword and storm bolter stock.

All the talk about 9" away after teleport attack is a bit wrong, as you have to set up more than 9" away; so effectively 10" away. Charging in on the turn you teleport in will be a rare occurrence.


Quick question: I know terminators suffer the to hit penalty for firing heavy weapons on the move; do dreadknights and other vehicles suffer this penalty as well?

All the talk about 9" charges are correct as you only need to end up within 1" of the enemy for a successful charge now. So, if you set up 9.5 inch away from an enemy model, a 9" charge will end with you 0.5" away and therefore is considered a successful charge.
   
 
Forum Index » 40K Tactics
Go to: