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Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

torblind wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Necrons should really have blanket morale resistance. They are a race of machines, and morale already punishes them by permanently removing models from the table.

There should be a hard cap on the number of models they can lose, like 3. It would make the Immortal Pride warlord trait less of a no brainer when it comes to silver tide, at least.

Yeah, getting a RP roll on unit wipe would be handy. I would just make it a single roll though; you have 1 chance to stop a unit from getting wiped.


Thing is, running away for moral isn't necessarily an illogical choice, against hopeless odds, you run away to fight another day. Logical for humans, and logical for machines. The fact that emotional distress is what causes it in humans doesn't change the fact that it can be a meaningful response.


It kind of is illogical though if the robots in question are just going to teleport to the Tomb World either way.
If necrons didn't phase out due to irreparable damage then you'd have a point, as it would be logical for intact units to retreat, either to avoid capture or self-destruction (to avoid capture). But necrons do teleport back to the Tomb World when they fail their protocols, or at least they used to, so deciding to bugger off and basically screwing everyone who's still awaiting repairs is a bit of a dick move.

Maybe RP should be moved to the morale phase. It seems ineffective at the start of the turn, as buff providers have a hard time getting into position, especially with 3" auras. 3" auras are only acceptable if they are at the end of the move phase or later, imo. Otherwise they are kind of gak.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Slaul wrote:
torblind wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Necrons should really have blanket morale resistance. They are a race of machines, and morale already punishes them by permanently removing models from the table.

There should be a hard cap on the number of models they can lose, like 3. It would make the Immortal Pride warlord trait less of a no brainer when it comes to silver tide, at least.

Yeah, getting a RP roll on unit wipe would be handy. I would just make it a single roll though; you have 1 chance to stop a unit from getting wiped.


Thing is, running away for moral isn't necessarily an illogical choice, against hopeless odds, you run away to fight another day. Logical for humans, and logical for machines. The fact that emotional distress is what causes it in humans doesn't change the fact that it can be a meaningful response.



Edit: and to be clear, I'm not sure I'd agree with a blanket morale immunity. I'm thinking more like certain HQ's give a morale immunity bubble or perhaps targets of MWBD are immune to morale or something.


That's what Immortal Pride does. 6" morale immunity bubble. Its nice, but it kind of sucks that you pretty much have to take it if you are running silver tide, otherwise your warrior blobs are just going to evaporate from morale.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/09/10 08:31:32


What I have
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~1660
: LM

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in dk
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Phase Out: When models flee from a unit with this ability you may select slain models to flee from that unit.

If Necrons got this ability I think RP would be fixed, it solves the issue of more than 10 models fleeing from a 6 man unit. Let's say you have 20 Warriors and 14 are slain. Currently, if you roll a 2+ the unit is gone, not only do you lose 6 models, you also lose any models that would come back next turn and any turns after that.

With this rule you'd be permanently losing RP for 7,5 models, so morale does still have an effect, but it's not double or triple the effect of what most other factions face in terms of how important it is. Losing a couple of Guardsmen is just so unimportant compared to permanently losing a self-repairing block of twenty Warriors that you've invested a couple hundred pts of support into.
   
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Loyal Necron Lychguard





I actually like that as a fix for Necron Morale issues.... lets see if it comes out that way though, eh?

Experience is something you get just after you need it
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Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

Could send GW an email suggesting it. They might sneak it in at some point.

What I have
~4100
~1660
: LM

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in ca
Stealthy Dark Angels Scout with Shotgun




NB, Canada

 vict0988 wrote:
Phase Out: When models flee from a unit with this ability you may select slain models to flee from that unit.

If Necrons got this ability I think RP would be fixed, it solves the issue of more than 10 models fleeing from a 6 man unit. Let's say you have 20 Warriors and 14 are slain. Currently, if you roll a 2+ the unit is gone, not only do you lose 6 models, you also lose any models that would come back next turn and any turns after that.

With this rule you'd be permanently losing RP for 7,5 models, so morale does still have an effect, but it's not double or triple the effect of what most other factions face in terms of how important it is. Losing a couple of Guardsmen is just so unimportant compared to permanently losing a self-repairing block of twenty Warriors that you've invested a couple hundred pts of support into.


That's a really cool idea. I like it!

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Irked Necron Immortal



Colorado

What if they made a stratagem that allowed RP rolls for a selected unit at the end of a phase? I'd pay 2 CP for that and then it wouldn't break the game or anything.
   
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Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle




In My Lab

v0iddrgn wrote:
What if they made a stratagem that allowed RP rolls for a selected unit at the end of a phase? I'd pay 2 CP for that and then it wouldn't break the game or anything.
Some people have suggested allowing RP to roll at every phase.

That is broken to high hell. As a 2 CP strat, though? Feels fine to me.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in dk
Tail-spinning Tomb Blade Pilot






 JNAProductions wrote:
Some people have suggested allowing RP to roll at every phase.

That is broken to high hell.

You'd need all failed RP rolls to result in the model fleeing, but I think the 5e system is better than 7e and 8e.
   
Made in fr
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on the forum. Obviously

So I've had a thought about scarabs - what if instead of being in fast attack or troops, they take no Slots, but are limited to 1 per unit of NECRONs.

One of the weaknesses of the necron army is that the best screening unit is also a Fast Attack unit, which means that if you are taking scarabs you'll have less slots to work with, so unless you have the points to run outrider your options are going to be limited.

Making scarabs slotless makes it so that you will always have a screen option without sacrificing a slot for wraiths, blades or destroyers.

From a lore standpoint it makes sense too, as Scarabs are always prevalent during a necron invasion.

What I have
~4100
~1660
: LM

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle




In My Lab

vict0988 wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
Some people have suggested allowing RP to roll at every phase.

That is broken to high hell.

You'd need all failed RP rolls to result in the model fleeing, but I think the 5e system is better than 7e and 8e.


I ran the math. If you charge 30 Plaguebearers into 20 Necron Warriors, without taking any casualties on the way in, you'd expect the Plaguebearers to win, right? It might take a few fights, but they're a purely melee unit against a mostly shooting unit.

If you RP at every phase, you'd lose with the Plaguebearers, just about every time.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:So I've had a thought about scarabs - what if instead of being in fast attack or troops, they take no Slots, but are limited to 1 per unit of NECRONs.

One of the weaknesses of the necron army is that the best screening unit is also a Fast Attack unit, which means that if you are taking scarabs you'll have less slots to work with, so unless you have the points to run outrider your options are going to be limited.

Making scarabs slotless makes it so that you will always have a screen option without sacrificing a slot for wraiths, blades or destroyers.

From a lore standpoint it makes sense too, as Scarabs are always prevalent during a necron invasion.
That's not helpful. Being Troops helps-gets you CP. Being slotless is, most often, a PENALTY, not a bonus.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
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Tail-spinning Tomb Blade Pilot






 JNAProductions wrote:
vict0988 wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
Some people have suggested allowing RP to roll at every phase.

That is broken to high hell.

You'd need all failed RP rolls to result in the model fleeing, but I think the 5e system is better than 7e and 8e.


I ran the math. If you charge 30 Plaguebearers into 20 Necron Warriors, without taking any casualties on the way in, you'd expect the Plaguebearers to win, right? It might take a few fights, but they're a purely melee unit against a mostly shooting unit.

If you RP at every phase, you'd lose with the Plaguebearers, just about every time.

Not if you only RP once per model. If you RP the whole squad every battle round 14 times, yeah they'll win.

If you use 5e RP (end of phase pass or flee) it'll take 12 rounds or less for 30 Plaguebearers to kill 20 Warriors and they'll have 17 or more left.

With current 8th ed rules it takes 20 Warriors 21 rounds to beat 30 Plaguebearers. So if you want 30 PBs that have taken no damage to win then you'll want 5th ed RP, if you want you want them to lose you want 8th ed. But it's not like the Warriors actually win, you're not going to have 21 rounds in most games, any games really being wiped out in a single round + morale is far easier for Necrons compared to PBs.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/13 11:55:54


 
   
Made in ca
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NB, Canada

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
So I've had a thought about scarabs - what if instead of being in fast attack or troops, they take no Slots, but are limited to 1 per unit of NECRONs.

One of the weaknesses of the necron army is that the best screening unit is also a Fast Attack unit, which means that if you are taking scarabs you'll have less slots to work with, so unless you have the points to run outrider your options are going to be limited.

Making scarabs slotless makes it so that you will always have a screen option without sacrificing a slot for wraiths, blades or destroyers.

From a lore standpoint it makes sense too, as Scarabs are always prevalent during a necron invasion.


Maybe treat them like Tau shield drones? Most units have the option of adding 1-2 and you may additionally take squads of them as Fast Attack?

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Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

Slaul wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
So I've had a thought about scarabs - what if instead of being in fast attack or troops, they take no Slots, but are limited to 1 per unit of NECRONs.

One of the weaknesses of the necron army is that the best screening unit is also a Fast Attack unit, which means that if you are taking scarabs you'll have less slots to work with, so unless you have the points to run outrider your options are going to be limited.

Making scarabs slotless makes it so that you will always have a screen option without sacrificing a slot for wraiths, blades or destroyers.

From a lore standpoint it makes sense too, as Scarabs are always prevalent during a necron invasion.


Maybe treat them like Tau shield drones? Most units have the option of adding 1-2 and you may additionally take squads of them as Fast Attack?


Yeah, maybe. Being able to use scarabs like grots and block shots would also increase overall durability.
Think of it as a huge wall of bugs converging to block fire.

What I have
~4100
~1660
: LM

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle




In My Lab

If RP was a one-shot thing, then yeah, that’s fine.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
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I'd like to see our WL traits reworked into three tables, mostly to get Cryptek Harbingers back, I'd also love it if we had one or two Stratagems for getting more than one WL trait on the field like Drukhari, Black Legion, Specialist Detachments, Imperial/Chaos Knights.

Unique Warlord Traits
Spoiler:
Imotekh the Stormlord (Hyperlogical Strategist): Each time your opponent uses a Stratagem other than an ORK Stratagem roll a D6, on a roll of 4+ you gain 1 CP. You can re-roll failed attempts to seize the initiative.
Nemesor Zahndrekh (Nemesor).
Vargard Obyron (Vargard).
Illuminor Szeras (Arch-Cryptek)
Orikan the Diviner (Harbinger of Eternity)
Anrakyr the Traveller (Grand Awakener): You can re-roll failed charge rolls for friendly NECRON units whilst they are within 6" of your Warlord.
Trazyn the Infinite (Conqueror)


Cryptek Warlord Traits
Spoiler:
CRYPTEKS can choose to generate their Warlord Traits from this table.

Arch-Cryptek: Increase the range of all abilities on your Warlord’s datasheet by 3". Only increase the range of your Warlord's Technomancer ability, not that of all other CRYPTEKS in your army. If a Cryptek with a Canoptek cloak has this Warlord Trait, this does not affect the distance the cloak allows the model to move in the Movement phase.
Harbinger of Despair: Subtract 1 from the Leadership characteristic of enemy units that are within 6" of your Warlord.
Harbinger of Destruction: Each time you roll a wound roll of 6 or more for a friendly <DYNASTY> unit within 6" of the Warlord in the Shooting phase, the Damage characteristic of that attack is increased by 1 (i.e. D1 becomes D2, Dd6 becomes Dd6+1).
Harbinger of Eternity: Once per turn you can re-roll a failed saving throw, hit roll or wound roll for a <DYNASTY> units within 6" of your Warlord.
Harbinger of the Storm: When an enemy unit arrives from Reserves within 12" of your Warlord your Warlord can immediately shoot at them.
Harbinger of Transmogrification: Friendly <DYNASTY> units within 6" of your Warlord that are receiving the benefit of cover add an additional 1 to their saving throws against attacks with an AP characteristic of -1.


Lord Warlord Traits
Spoiler:
LORDS can choose to generate their Warlord Traits from this table. All <DYNASTY> CHARACTERS within 6" a member of a Royal Court become members of that Royal Court and in turn make all <DYNASTY> CHARACTERS within 6" of themselves members as well and so on.

1 Animator: This model forms a Royal Court and can roll on the secondary Lord Trait list. Friendly <DYNASTY> units within 6" of a model from your Warlord's Royal Court can re-roll a single Reanimation Protocol roll each turn.
2 Executor: This model forms a Royal Court and can roll on the secondary Lord Trait list. Friendly <DYNASTY> Lychguard units within 6" of a model from your Warlord's Royal Court can re-roll failed charge rolls.
3 Praetor: This model forms a Royal Court and can roll on the secondary Lord Trait list. Friendly Triarch Praetorian units within 6" of a model from your Warlord's Royal Court add +1 to their Hit rolls.
4 Nomarch: This model forms a Royal Court. Friendly <DYNASTY> units within 6" of a model from your Warlord's Royal Court add +1 to their Ld.
5 Vargard: This model forms a Royal Court. Friendly <DYNASTY> CHARACTERS within 6" of a model from your Warlord's Royal Court add +1 to their Sv characteristic against Shooting attacks.
6 Vycount This model forms a Royal Court. Friendly <DYNASTY> CHARACTERS within 6" of a model from your Warlord's Royal Court add +1 to their Hit rolls.
Secondary Lord Traits
Roll on this table when you generate the Animator, Executor or Praetor Warlord Trait for a Necron Lord. Roll a D3 and consult the table below, note that you cannot choose the result of this roll as you can with other Warlord Traits.

1 Magistrate: Add +1 to the Warlord's Toughness characteristic.
2 Tetrarch: Add +1 to the Warlord's Strength characteristic.
3 Vicarius: Add +1 to the Warlord's Attacks characteristic.

Overlord Traits
Spoiler:
OVERLORDS can choose to generate their Warlord trait from this table.

1 Conqueror: Reduce any damage inflicted on your Warlord by 1 (to a minimum of 1). For example, if your Warlord fails a saving throw against an attack that inflicts 3 damage, they will only lose 2 wounds. Note that this does not affect Quantum Shielding.
2 Harvester: Add D6 to the Warlord's attacks characteristic if he charged, was charged, or performed a Heroic Intervention this turn.
3 Nemesor: Friendly <DYNASTY> units automatically pass Morale tests whilst they are within 6" of your Warlord. In addition, your Warlord can attempt to deny one psychic power in each enemy Psychic phase in the same manner as a PSYKER.
4 Phaeron: Your Warlord can use their My Will Be Done or Wave of Command ability twice each turn.
5 Awakener: You can re-roll failed charge rolls for friendly <DYNASTY> units whilst they are within 6" of your Warlord.
6 High Judicator: If your Warlord targets the same enemy CHARACTER with all their close combat attacks in the Fight phase you can re-roll any hit or wound roll until the end of the phase.

Dynasty Eccentricities
Spoiler:
Depending on what <DYNASTY> your Warlord is from they will have an additional Warlord trait. Note this only applies to your Warlord, not just any model with a Warlord Trait.

Awakened by Murder: Your NOVOKH Warlord cannot Advance before destroying an enemy model. Your NOVOKH Warlord can re-roll any charge rolls.
Honourable Combatant: If your SAUTEKH Warlord falls back from within 1" of an enemy CHARACTER your opponent gains 1 CP. If an enemy CHARACTER falls back from within 1" of your SAUTEKH Warlord you gain 1 CP.
Immortal Pride: Your opponent must subtract 1 from hit rolls that target your NEPHREKH Warlord. Your NEPHREKH Warlord can only be chosen to Fight at the end of the Fight phase.
Merciless Tyrant: Your MEPHRIT Warlord cannot attack a unit if there is another unit available as a target with fewer models in the unit. Your MEPHRIT Warlord can target enemy CHARACTERS with less than 10 wounds even if they are not the closest enemy unit.
Eternal Madness: Your NIHILAKH Warlord controls objective markers that are within range of your NIHILAKH Warlord even if there are more enemy models within range of it unless they have a similar ability or if the objective number is less than half the average number of objective markers on the table, in which case your Warlord cannot control that objective marker or help controlling it.
   
 
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