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I'm a DW play who would like to see DW axed. GK too. Also Sisters. Put them all into a single Inquisition Codex where they belong.

Racerguy180 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
They can have fun. Just not with GK or DW. Ideally.

"If I cant have fun, then no one can". That's basically what you're saying. If their inclusion is so offensive to you......dont waste time/energy/thought on them.

Hell, I hate the Tau but I'm not advocating their deletion.

Get off of you high horse and just understand that not everyone has the same motivations/desires as you do. Go piss in your own cornflakes instead of others.

So don’t lump me into ... whatever ridiculous thing Martel is advocating for. I’m not about to suggest that we nix Grey Knights ... did he say he wanted to trash his models because eBay was too good for them?

So, I would say one thing—the Faction Bloat going on in the game DOES hurt players in two important ways:

1. Releases for army updates and faction extras etc. end up getting pushed back as part of a release cycle that gets longer and longer. Pre-8th, remember when people had to wait years (like, nearly a decade) for their turn at a Codex Update? And then during 8th, remember when factions had to wait years (1 to 2) to get their Codex update from the Index?

I’m not saying axe existing factions (though I do think they should start cutting down on Xenos releases if the game is going to just become SM v. CSM. Necrons clearly have no role in the new story line, for example), but let’s pump the breaks on adding Factions IF the player base expectation is going to demand that they then get added to the Codex/update release cycle at the same priority as fleshed out factions.

2. The game complexity is clearly growing beyond GW’s investment willingness to compensate for. The super doctrines prove this. The more minor variations you add on with slightly different Factions that are all cross-compatible with each other... the more likely it is you end up with unkillable units masterblasting the tabletop clear of any and all non-mirror threats all because you couldn’t keep track of that one minor interaction of a model in a limited production run (Forgeworld) in a heretofore underplayed Faction.

And IF GW were to invest in that much higher threshold of interaction tracking then that means fewer available £ for design and development of new rules and models of existing factions (which themselves would have used that interaction tracking investment instead).

And if I were to add a third item, it would be this:

3. We all complain about having to bring 6 to 7 rulebook with us just to play a game. More and more subfactions and sidefactions and superfactions just add to that burden. I don’t think this (3) is very compelling, though, because even as a Necron player I still have to bring at least 3 books with me just to play a game.

Martel732 wrote:Who the feth is gonna use a razorback now? Seriously.

Me? If I was still adding to my Battle Company, I'd be interested. Are the turrets glued on?

I dont demand anything. I will however call a faction stupid as feth. The gw store guy loves it when i do that.

I'm sure you win all the popularity awards. Again, I love the irony of a Space Marine player complaining about too many Space Marines. Jump on the bandwagon, and then complain when everyone else does too, I guess?

EDIT: And, just for clarity, like sieGermans, I do actually support consolidating factions (that doesn't mean I support getting rid of any!) - I don't see an issue with multiple factions being in the same book, so long as they are related in some fashion. So, for example, Grey Knights, Inquisition, Assassins, Custodes, Sisters of Silence, and Deathwatch, etc should all be in one "Agents of the Imperium" book. They should still get all their own units, and keywords should still be in play to encourage all-Custodes or all-Grey Knight lists, but put all the units in one place. Similarly to non-specialist Space Marines (ie, everything except Deathwatch and Grey Knights), should all be in one book, with **optional** supplements if you feel you want to specialise (aka, if you want your Dark Angels to have their fancy units, your Imperial Fists to feel more Imperially Fisty, etc). All Eldar/Dark Eldar/Harlequins should all be in one Codex, as should Tyranids and Genestealer Cult with their own. Have Chaos Marines and Chaos Daemons link together. Have Knights and Guardsmen (as separate Codexes) with a variety of factions they can have keywords for (ie, options to be <Imperium>, <Chaos>, <Tau> and <Genestealer Cult> ). Then, for Necrons, Orks, Tau, Sisters, Mechanicus, and those factions, let them stay as full Codexes.

Sure, you'll have some big chunky Codexes. But, at least they'll be updated together. It's actually what I liked a lot about the Indexes - that one book could cover multiple related factions.

It is ironic, but marines were pretty uncommon in my area in 2nd when i started. I dont care to be popular with gk or sw players.

Call it ridiculous, but gw has done it for more arbitrary reasons.

Martel732 wrote:
It is ironic, but marines were pretty uncommon in my area in 2nd when i started. I dont care to be popular with gk or sw players.

Call it ridiculous, but gw has done it for more arbitrary reasons.

"GW made a decision based on reasoning I dont agree with, therefore I'm justified to be an donkey-cave to anyone who doesnt play my army."

That's brilliance right there.

Martel732 wrote:
It is ironic, but marines were pretty uncommon in my area in 2nd when i started. I dont care to be popular with gk or sw players.

Call it ridiculous, but gw has done it for more arbitrary reasons.

So, because you don't like the army other people play, that's your excuse to treat them like garbage?

What a charmer.

Not exactly, but i get your point.

I dont treat them like garbage. I just make my opinion about their faction clear.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
It is ironic, but marines were pretty uncommon in my area in 2nd when i started. I dont care to be popular with gk or sw players.

Call it ridiculous, but gw has done it for more arbitrary reasons.

So, because you don't like the army other people play, that's your excuse to treat them like garbage?

What a charmer.

I believe the term is self entitled holier than thou I know better and cant change my mind. if you're having such a problem them, dont play them. I've never even seen/played against either GK or DW locally, how prevalent are they in Martels area? every other player? every player? or is it just that you dont like them and that is justification enough?

I'm not holy at all. Im just allergic to gws mary sue factions.

I think the game should have more factions.

Daemons should be split - each god should get their own 'dex like AoS.

CSM should be split - each founding legion should get their own 'dex, plus the notable post-Heresy. Just like SM 40k.

Tau should be split - each founding Sept should get their own supplement/minidex, plus the notable post-rising like Farsight. Just like SM 40k.

Etc.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
I think the game should have more factions.

Daemons should be split - each god should get their own 'dex like AoS.

CSM should be split - each founding legion should get their own 'dex, plus the notable post-Heresy. Just like SM 40k.

Tau should be split - each founding Sept should get their own supplement/minidex, plus the notable post-rising like Farsight. Just like SM 40k.

Etc.

how is this a bad thing? unless you have a need to buy everything they sell...

There is more players using Harlequins (sure 70% or so are allies to CWE/DE) compare to GSC (going by numbers from tournaments, so locally might be different).

But yet GSC got extra releases and a real PA. But Harlequins didnt.

Yes harlequins are a smaller army and yes there is less mono quin players, but thats also part of GW's fault.

GW just didn't want o throw quins a bone or promote them. As a quin player i am very pissed off.

Racerguy180 wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
I think the game should have more factions.

Daemons should be split - each god should get their own 'dex like AoS.

CSM should be split - each founding legion should get their own 'dex, plus the notable post-Heresy. Just like SM 40k.

Tau should be split - each founding Sept should get their own supplement/minidex, plus the notable post-rising like Farsight. Just like SM 40k.

Etc.

how is this a bad thing? unless you have a need to buy everything they sell...

I dunno I think it would be cool, as I mentioned

my bad, was thinking it was sarcasm.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
I think the game should have more factions.

Daemons should be split - each god should get their own 'dex like AoS.

CSM should be split - each founding legion should get their own 'dex, plus the notable post-Heresy. Just like SM 40k.

Tau should be split - each founding Sept should get their own supplement/minidex, plus the notable post-rising like Farsight. Just like SM 40k.

Etc.

There's just not that much content for some of these (Tau in particular), a lot would have to be made of doctrinal differences more suited to a skirmish game or RPG than 40k (as happens with Space Marines) to justify it or they're going to have to get increasingly weirdly differentiated (as has also happened with SM's) for their own sake, while keeping track of and updating that many rules sources (not to mention trying to buy them all) would be increasingly unfeasible. There's also no model support for many subfactions, particularly for stuff like Craftworlds, DE, Tau, Necrons, etc which is the prime motivator for those sub-books, as most of these factions were made just to be different color schemes and background ideas for different force compositions.

Within the timespan of a single edition, there's also just not enough marketing pipeline unless GW crowds release windows to several a month.

Welll... That happened.

Moving on.