Drukhari 8th Codex [old see new]

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**vipoid**

Blast Pistols definitely seem like a higher priority than Agonisers for hekatrixes.

Personally, I don't think I'd bother with Agonisers at all unless I had spare points. They're very weak weapons even on HQs with better WS and more attacks, so it's hard to see squad sergeants getting any meaningful mileage out of them.

**Amishprn86**

Every Wych unit I take for now (until new codex that is) 100% for sure is a Blast pistol, then after my list is made if i have points i'll go for melee weapons lol.

**Denegaar**

So I want to improve the heavy / antitank part of my army. I know Talos are still great, what about Ravagers? Still worth the points?

**flamingkillamajig**

I don't have the 9th edition rules or chapter approved and they keep increasing the cost of ravagers but disintegrator ravagers still always seem good esp. if marine meta is a thing. I imagine long range, anti-MEQ, multiple wound killing power is still decent.

**harlokin**

Denegaar wrote:
So I want to improve the heavy / antitank part of my army. I know Talos are still great, what about Ravagers? Still worth the points?

Ravagers feel too expensive now, but we aren't over blessed with anti tank options. I'm planning on trying out Reapers, which are pretty good now that they can move and fire without penalty, and they can also be fielded in Wych Cult (for the Cult of Strife strat) or Coven (for Dark Technomancers).

**Amishprn86**

Ravagers are 100% fine and not to costly, they in % per unit wise went up some of the least amount form 8th. Talos, Ravagers, and the Reaper are all great.

My normal list still has 1-2 Ravagers, 1-2 Reapers now, and at least a unit of Talos. B.c the Reaper is more wounds than 10 you need to IMO make sure you don't take to many other transports b.c of the Secondary Titan slayer.

**vipoid**

Amishprn86 wrote:
Ravagers are 100% fine and not to costly, they in % per unit wise went up some of the least amount form 8th.

Out of interest, are you including the weapons in that?

**Amishprn86**

vipoid wrote:
Amishprn86 wrote:
Ravagers are 100% fine and not to costly, they in % per unit wise went up some of the least amount form 8th.

Out of interest, are you including the weapons in that?

Yes, b.c the actual Ravager went down 10pts, over all it went up 20pts for the full unit, just 5 troops alone went up 15pts. That is a HUGE difference.

**Red Corsair**

Yea I have to agree with Amish here. Too many folks are blasting the ravager out of context. Everything in the game went up, sure dissies went up too but they were under-priced for 8th to start.

Now, venoms, those got hosed IMO. A splinter canon is worth at most 5 points IMHO. The fact that a star weaver is 80 compared to a venom at 90 is a travesty. Better weapons, greater transport capacity, better invulnerable save and just to kick the venom in the balls it wins out in combat too.

I'd still rate the ravager as a must take. I would definitely take raiders over venoms though.

**Brutus_Apex**

Regarding our absurd points adjustments.

Anyone else here curious to know how long ago the points were changed across the board in preparation for 9th? Usually GW works quite a few months in advance, in some cases years, but thats more in the model territory. Not so much rules.

Anyway my point is, Do you think that we will see points reductions when we get our codex. I understand we probably won't see our codex until next year, but hopefully things will have been adjusted a bit until then.

**flamingkillamajig**

I couldn't bother taking venoms before. Poison isn't that good imo. When everything in 8th got more wounds and poison remained the same amount of shots, 1 damage and almost always no AP in our case it just ended up sucking.

Keep in mind almost all dark eldar anti-infantry shooting is 18" for effective range (rapid fire needs to be half range to be decent). For some dumb reason splinter cannons are rapid fire instead of assault 6 like dissies on ravagers. Ever since 8th i won't take them. Dissies are the only dark eldar anti-infantry weapon that are 36" range and maintain a good rate of fire. It's not like light infantry are that good anyway esp. in 9th by the sounds of it.

To think i liked the idea of shredders after our 8th ed codex. With the increased cost of warriors and even transports i don't really want to take them.

A 9th ed codex for dark eldar would help fix our side up but i fear that'd ruin what i've bought for my army which honestly was probably a waste of time during a pandemic where most can't play 40k.

**Slipspace**

Brutus_Apex wrote:
Regarding our absurd points adjustments.

Anyone else here curious to know how long ago the points were changed across the board in preparation for 9th? Usually GW works quite a few months in advance, in some cases years, but thats more in the model territory. Not so much rules.

Anyway my point is, Do you think that we will see points reductions when we get our codex. I understand we probably won't see our codex until next year, but hopefully things will have been adjusted a bit until then.

The points were set at least as early as around Spetember/October last year according to the Tabletop Tactics guys who were involved in playtesting. They said they came onboard around that time but the points were already finalised by then so they had no input into them.

I'd hope we see points reductions but it depends how GW approaches 9th. In general I agree with raising the costs of things to reduce the number of models on the board but I think in the case of DE we've been pushed too far. I wouldn't mind seeing Warriors at around 8-9 points if they were actually worth that as thematically being around 50% better than a Guardsmen seems right, but then you'd need to seriously upgrade the basic gun or special rules to make that balanced. I don't think it'd be a good thing for the game overall if GW raised all the points up to around the same level they were at the start of 8th then just keep lowering them over and over like they did during that edition.

**Oaka**

Am I missing an FAQ somewhere that doesn't allow you to use Black Cornucopians on the first turn?

Black Cornucopians- Use this stratagem at the end of your Movement phase. Pick a unit of Prophets of Flesh Wracks from your army and remove it from the battlefield, then set it up again at its full starting strength wholly within 6" of the edge of the battlefield and more than 9" from any enemy models.

Teleport Homer (Action)- Score 4 victory points each time a unit from your army successfully completes the following action: One INFANTRY unit from your army can start to perform this action at the end of your Movement phase if it is wholly within your opponent's deployment zone. This action is completed at the end of your next Command phase, provided the unit attempting it is still wholly within your opponent's deployment zone.

Sequencing- While playing Warhammer 40,000, you'll occasionally find that two or more rules are to be resolved at the same time- e.g. 'at the start of the battle round' or 'at the end of the Fight phase'. When this happens during the battle, the player whose turn it is chooses the order.

The most useful aspect of this is that you can start the Teleport Homer action on turn 1. It looks like it is pretty difficult to get an Infantry unit in your opponent's deployment zone on turn 1 (Advancing Scourges with Fire and Fade have 22"-27" movement for possible turn 1 Linebreaker) but Black Cornucopians is kind of a loophole to the strategic reserves rule.

**Red Corsair**

Seems fine to me. Normally folks didn't use that strat first turn unless going second and taking casualties. But with the extra CP of 9th it seems viable to me.

Hellions with +2 movement combat drug advancing and firing and fading would also be pretty fast 24-29"

**Oaka**

Now I'm actually looking at a Raider filled with more Wracks utilizing Enhanced Aethersails and Fire and Fade on turn 1 for a 29" move. Combined with the Black Cornucopians unit, that is pricey at 4 CPs but a reliable turn 1 Linebreaker completion and setup for turn 2 completions of Linebreaker and Teleport Homer.

**harlokin**

Any other FAQ fallout?

Looks like Taloi and Venoms can no longer provide 'Look Out Sir' protection for our characters.

**Amishprn86**

Yep. Sadly.

**Oaka**

That one hurts, it was going to be very easy for me to keep Urien next to a Talos rather than three Grotesques.

**vipoid**

harlokin wrote:
Any other FAQ fallout?

Looks like Taloi and Venoms can no longer provide 'Look Out Sir' protection for our characters.

But guardsmen can still protect the towering Guilliman, because of course they can.

**harlokin**

Has anyone included any of the cheaper Court units, like Lhamaens or Ur-Ghuls in their lists?

I was wondering if they have potential value for performing Actions. It seems to me that if you need a unit to do nothing but Deploy Scramblers, better a 16 point Ur-Ghul do it than a 60+ point unit of Wracks.

**the_scotsman**

So, I played another game against a similar chaos list to the one I faced last time (same player). I tried Cult of Strife instead of Slashing+Test, and hoooooboy, do I hope the new Lelith comes with an updated sheet that says she can go in any subfaction. Because Cult of Strife felt like gaaaaaaarbage compared to test+slashing. Lelith herself was...OK, killed a terminator lord over two turns and prevented his buddies from shooting. She's very similar to a shardnet succubus at the end of the day.

Star of the show was, funnily enough given the discussion going on here, my archon. Finished off 3 daemon engines, one of them being a discolord, racking up 17 wounds vs daemon engines between his never-failing blast pistol and surprisingly effective huskblade.

The game turned into a high-scoring bloodbath and my opponent selected better secondaries for that. Final score was 90 to 75, with me losing 5 points on Abhor (he'd only had 2 psykers), 5 points on primary, and 5 points on Engage on All Fronts largely because I spent the fifth turn with 2 models on the board. My opponent had Bring it Down which he maxed pretty easily by killing all my transports, Raise the banners which he set up turn 1 and just went the whole game, and Linebreaker which the Terminators maxed by Lelith not being able to kill them fast enough.

Not much to be gleaned about the overall power of drukhari except that our infantry units are massively overpriced (we knew that) and darklight weapons are obnoxiously weakened by armies with invul saves. Also, interestingly, I maintain a 100% winrate when I get first turn and a 0% winrate when I get second turn in 9th. Only 6 games and 3 games, but still something I need to figure out how to crack.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

harlokin wrote:
Has anyone included any of the cheaper Court units, like Lhamaens or Ur-Ghuls in their lists?

I was wondering if they have potential value for performing Actions. It seems to me that if you need a unit to do nothing but Deploy Scramblers, better a 16 point Ur-Ghul do it than a 60+ point unit of Wracks.

I've been using min mandrakes. If you're going for scramblers, yeah I can see Sslyth being good for that one.

**harlokin**

Nice update, thanks.

Did you have any Reapers in your CoS detachment, and if so did you get to use the shoot again strat?

**vipoid**

harlokin wrote:
Has anyone included any of the cheaper Court units, like Lhamaens or Ur-Ghuls in their lists?

I was wondering if they have potential value for performing Actions. It seems to me that if you need a unit to do nothing but Deploy Scramblers, better a 16 point Ur-Ghul do it than a 60+ point unit of Wracks.

I used to use a trio of Lhamaeans in my Poison Tongue lists back in 8th. They weren't amazing with just 2 attacks each and no ability to harm vehicles, but Mortal Wounds on a 4+ (rerolling 1s to wound with Poison Tongue) meant that three of them together could often put a few wounds on a character or monster.

However, GW apparently decided that Poison Tongue had been dominating the meta for far too long and so nerfed them into the ground (Mortal Wounds now only on 6s, wheeee).

Hence, I fear the days of me including Lhamaeans in my lists have now long past.

As for ur-Ghuls, I didn't see the point of them even in 8th and frankly I still don't.

**Amishprn86**

Sadly Lhamaeans don't get MW's on a 4+ anymore and now just wound on 2+ and MW's on 6+.

**the_scotsman**

harlokin wrote:
Nice update, thanks.

Did you have any Reapers in your CoS detachment, and if so did you get to use the shoot again strat?

I don't own a reaper, although I am considering taking the spare gun bits from my Vauls Wrath gun and magnetizing a little conversion kit for one of my many raiders.

I think if i'd had one I would have put it in the Dark Technomancers detachment instead.

**Oaka**

harlokin wrote:

I was wondering if they have potential value for performing Actions. It seems to me that if you need a unit to do nothing but Deploy Scramblers, better a 16 point Ur-Ghul do it than a 60+ point unit of Wracks.

Strangely enough, if you use the Ur-Ghul datasheet from Blackstone Fortress they're 15 points, with the same rules.

**vipoid**

Amishprn86 wrote:
Sadly Lhamaeans don't get MW's on a 4+ anymore and now just wound on 2+ and MW's on 6+.

Yeah, hence why I'll be dropping them from my lists.

Was that really considered overpowered? Outside of my own lists, I can't recall them ever being a common sight in 8th, let alone being any sort of powerhouse at tournaments or even in casual play.

**warmaster21**

vipoid wrote:
Amishprn86 wrote:
Sadly Lhamaeans don't get MW's on a 4+ anymore and now just wound on 2+ and MW's on 6+.

Yeah, hence why I'll be dropping them from my lists.

Was that really considered overpowered? Outside of my own lists, I can't recall them ever being a common sight in 8th, let alone being any sort of powerhouse at tournaments or even in casual play.

GW doesnt allow DE to have fun

**Red Corsair**

vipoid wrote:
Amishprn86 wrote:
Sadly Lhamaeans don't get MW's on a 4+ anymore and now just wound on 2+ and MW's on 6+.

Yeah, hence why I'll be dropping them from my lists.

Was that really considered overpowered? Outside of my own lists, I can't recall them ever being a common sight in 8th, let alone being any sort of powerhouse at tournaments or even in casual play.

It clearly wasn't intentional though. It's just one of those things that was effected by the way mods work now. Another example is GSC relic sniper rifle gift from beyond which adds +2 to wound, but now effectively only adds +1 due to 9th. Which is also a major nerf.

So no, I don't think it was over powered and I also don't think they did either. Hopefully more thought will go into our 9th ed codex.

Personally I am hoping splinter weapons get redesigned. Poison 2+ is the easiest fix, but personally I'd rather give splinter weapons strength and AP back like they had in 3rd ed, but with a +1 to wound verse infantry.

So for example splinter pistols, carbines, pods and rifles would be S3 -1AP +1 to wound verse infantry
Splinter canons would be S4 -1AP +1 to wound infantry. Oh and BTW I'd just make it heavy 6. Now they would actually threaten those last few wounds on vehicles.

The lack of AP across the army is a real issue in the era of +1 to save for cover.

**Denegaar**

Yeah, poison weapons feel underwhelming vs everything thougher than an elf.

And please, they should make our characters work inside vehicles, it makes no sense that the captain of a pirate ship is useless inside his boat, it should be even better! and right now for using him, he has to run behind...

Kabals and Cults are really key parts of the army, and right now they are just a mess, they make no sense rules-wise or lore-wise.