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Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut




 Flipsiders wrote:


I like the obnoxious centerpieces...


I want better rules for my obnoxious centrepieces... I might buy more titanic vehicles if they were playable.
   
Made in nl
Jovial Plaguebearer of Nurgle





 Flipsiders wrote:
Goose LeChance wrote:

I agree with everyone complaining about obnoxious centerpieces.


I like the obnoxious centerpieces...

I'm sure you do, as do many others, to each their own. I personally dislike them as well but I can see why people like them. Still doesn't mean I prefer not seeing them in my games. For me personally the dislike is more about how a lot of the lore seems to center around them more so then their presence on the tabletop.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




NE Ohio, USA

 Flipsiders wrote:
Goose LeChance wrote:

I agree with everyone complaining about obnoxious centerpieces.


I like the obnoxious centerpieces...


I do too. Just not as playable pieces on the tabletop or as minis I have to assemble/paint/transport....
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Castozor wrote:
 Flipsiders wrote:
Goose LeChance wrote:

I agree with everyone complaining about obnoxious centerpieces.


I like the obnoxious centerpieces...

I'm sure you do, as do many others, to each their own. I personally dislike them as well but I can see why people like them. Still doesn't mean I prefer not seeing them in my games. For me personally the dislike is more about how a lot of the lore seems to center around them more so then their presence on the tabletop.


This isn't a problem of the miniature, it's a problem of GW's insistence on using literal line of sight for an abstract war game and thus punishing models for their shape.


If GW used an abstracted LoS in keeping with the abstraction of the game in general, having unwieldy models like this would be less of an issue.
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







 Just Tony wrote:
The fact hat EVERY post doesn't have something about price speaks volumes here


...did you read the OP, by any chance?

For once, a good number of people are doing as they were asked, and not going on about prices. Not quite so good at not going on about the rules, but one out of two is a reasonable starting position...

2021 Plog - Here we go again... - my fifth attempt at a Dakka PLOG

My [url=https://pileofpotential.com/dysartes]Pile of Potential[/url - updates ongoing...

Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.


 Kanluwen wrote:
This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.

Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army... 
   
Made in us
Slaanesh Veteran Marine with Tentacles




 Dysartes wrote:
 Just Tony wrote:
The fact hat EVERY post doesn't have something about price speaks volumes here


...did you read the OP, by any chance?

For once, a good number of people are doing as they were asked, and not going on about prices. Not quite so good at not going on about the rules, but one out of two is a reasonable starting position...


Price and rules are the two biggest factors for me though XD if one of them gives I would be more apt to try a new army.

Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. -Kurt Vonnegut 
   
Made in us
Prospector with Steamdrill




Charlotte, NC

Hecaton wrote:
They can fix their atrocious ruleset.


That is not a bug, it is a feature.
   
Made in us
Poisonous Tomb Scorpion





 Flipsiders wrote:
Goose LeChance wrote:

I agree with everyone complaining about obnoxious centerpieces.


I like the obnoxious centerpieces...


I'm not gonna argue it, because people like what they like, but I too love them. My Teclis and Belakor look amazing, and I've very happy to play games with them on the tabletop anytime.
   
Made in us
Stalwart Space Marine





Plastic Armageddon Steel Legion or Krieg. Looks like the garbage Cadian sprue is still going to be around so this is probably not going to happen.

Praying to get a game of 9th edition in before Summer. 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut







 Kelligula wrote:
Plastic Armageddon Steel Legion or Krieg. Looks like the garbage Cadian sprue is still going to be around so this is probably not going to happen.


I just got metal ones. They're cheaper than Cadians now.

You need tools to make them not-monopose though, and time and planning. I get it's not for everyone. Good luck nonetheless!
   
Made in us
Stoic Grail Knight




Digital rules available on a subscription service. I'd play more armies if I didn't have to buy more books to go with them.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




El Torro wrote:
Like many of us I've built up quite a collection of models and armies over the years. It's getting to the stage that I'm thinking of moving out of my one bedroom flat to a bigger place, just so I have somewhere to store everything in a tidy fashion.

Before I answer my own question, a bit of background as to what I collect and why:

The Imperial Guard were my first love back in 2nd edition. Since then I've kept that army going, replacing models where necessary, stripping some so I could make a more uniform colour scheme. After some time I decided to collect Tyranids too, just so my Imperial Guard would have something to fight against.

So far so good. Then GW released both Deathwatch and Genestealer Cult, both armies I'd been waiting for years for a release / re-release for. Great, I thought, now I can give both my armies some allies and keep with the theme.

Now with my 4 armies I'm quite happy with what I've got. Of course a collector's job is never done, so I'm always on the lookout to expand all 4 of these armies. Generally speaking though I'm content with the mix.



To go back to the thread title, the one thing I think would seriously make me consider collecting more armies is if we see an Emperor's Children codex and models release. I have always liked the idea of collecting Chaos (though in my mind Tyranids are the real threat to the Imperium, not Chaos), I've just steered clear because, well, I have enough models as it is. Slaanesh is my favourite of the Chaos gods, so if they were shown some love (similar to the Death Guard and Thousand Sons) I'm not sure I could resist the temptation.

On the plus side I could use my Imperial Guard against Emperor's Children easily enough. I would also have to collect a Grey Knights force to give them the suitable Ordo support. Then I'd also collect a Slaanesh Daemons army to support the Emperor's Children. So if (when?) this codex is released it's going to get expensive for me...


Sorry for the ramble, just thought I'd give some context as to why I'm asking the question. Just wondering if others are in a similar position to me, waiting for a specific release to really splash the cash.



Oh, and it would be nice if we could avoid answers like "GW would need to write

better rules first" or "GW would have to lower their prices". Valid points, though I think we all know that neither scenario is likely to happen.



This is why I joined this fine forum. I wanted to be able to answer this question after reading many places, as well as this LOOONG thread.

The short answer is nothing.

We were looking forwards to a few mini releases for the 9th edition, but after they announced AoS third, and dropped a codex weeks before that release, we had enough of the shenanigans.

We have a long list of projects to do, and quite frankly, I found Grimdark online and that ruleset will allow us to play with what we have, which is either on the way to become legends, or has become legendary. Oh never mind core units and fluff. The game is simple, almost bears and pretzels, but seems to have enough depth to allow for some tactics, which stratagems really do not...

I am old enough to know that fluff can adapt to new minis and conditions, At one time I freelanced in the industry, so yes, companies do this. It is their right to do that. So we will get the codexes we need to complete the 9th edition codexes we still play,. That is it. If we find that Grimdark satisfies our needs, I may not even bother with the IG codex, which is my oldest army. Or wait for 10th to drop and pick it cheap, in the secondary market.

My husband's birthday is coming up and he really wanted (before the shenanigans made it quite clear that they don't care) a particular mini for his orcs. I just ordered that through the secondary market. In fact, from now on, that is how I intend to fill in units that look interesting for my armies.

It is their IP, they can do whatever they want with it, But if enough people have had it, they are also a publicly traded company, and that will force changes. Remember, HASBRO publicly traded, and 4E was not well received. They took their sweet time with playtesting before 5th came out. This is one of the most common complaints I have read in several places, including here. 5th is a good game. I don't remember 4th because we skipped it. And I will likely not be around for 40K tenth edition, and for sure we are not picking up AoS 3rd. In fact, we are not picking the Vamps codex either, and that is a faction I play.

So there is hope, only insofar as they do not replace all of us who are having issues with the lack of quality control, with new bright faces that do not know better.

We started to have our doubts about what was it, two or three Knight codexes in 8th? That was like a big red blaring red light for us, and yes, we have done game development. We still got them, but we are essentially done. Once the subscription for WD lapses. that is it. We got it during the shutdown to avoid going to the store.

And yes, the way they treat retailers is also one reason for this. One does 3D printing, so guess where I am going to pick up a nice little demon for my demon army? You guessed it.

Now to paint some ARCHERS for my undead, since I can run those in the fantasy version of one-page games. which I cannot do in AoS, and makes like no sense whatsoever. And from what was leaked, it looks Death Rattle was nerfed even more if that was possible. I expect them to nerf Guard as well if that is possible. So that's it. They can do whatever they want with their IP. I can do whatever I want with my limited gaming dollars.

Nadin

   
Made in us
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NE Ohio, USA

nadin wrote:

Now to paint some ARCHERS for my undead, since I can run those in the fantasy version of one-page games. which I cannot do in AoS, and makes like no sense whatsoever. And from what was leaked, it looks Death Rattle was nerfed even more if that was possible. I expect them to nerf Guard as well if that is possible. So that's it. They can do whatever they want with their IP. I can do whatever I want with my limited gaming dollars.

Nadin


Can't run skellie archers in Sigmar huh?
Did you know about THIS: https://www.warhammer-community.com/legends/ Our archers are 100pts per 10 in the GHB2020 pts guide.

   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Yes, yes I do. In fact, we have the full thing printed out and in binders. Point to the scroll with archers in Vampire Counts. Also, these warscrolls were severely broken by 2.0, and will be even more by 3.0.

Tomb Kings, thanks for making the point, ARE legends. And at one point I considered buying some in the secondary market. to use them in home games within Counts. It is not like I could not find them at a local store for a reasonable price (used).

Incidentally. I hear you are coming up with siege rules, but most factions do NOT have warmachines. Now I don't know about you, but medieval armies had siege warfare, and all had siege machines of one type or another. So, are siege machines coming for ALL factions? Why do I doubt it?

Within AOF I can run skellies, with bows, no problem as part of the undead army. I can also run my Magothkin in a balanced way. I might even start painting them now as well. it's not like I don't have them. I do. And when the rules are updated, I get a new set. I already paid for them.

Incidentally. one of my palate cleansers is currently on the table. a commissar from Victoria Miniatures. It will go with my human defense force.

There is nothing GW can do for me to buy another miniature at this point, Fix the rules, for starters, Slow the treadmill to a reasonable speed where you do not issue three codexes for the same army within a year....which is a sign of very poor playtesting and not checking the probabilistic tables and maths. Oh and do not make me buy half the rules I have to play in a faction in codexes and supplements on a good day. Then we might talk.

Oh, the archers I will be painting are originally from Mantic Games.

BTW, those scrolls were exactly what had us try AOS. The only ruleset we MIGHT continue to play because it is interesting is Warcry. We have it, but we literally are NOT looking at anything more from GW.

There was one mini my husband wanted for his Orks (Speed Freaks and Buggies, that are now legend)...it's in the mail, from the secondary market, and IT IS NOT a GW mini either.

You have the absolute right to do whatever you care to do with your IP. I have limited hobby dollars. They are going elsewhere at this point.

Oh one last thing, we are introducing my nephews (your absolute target market), to these alternate rulesets and the secondary market.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/16 16:31:46


 
   
Made in us
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Karol wrote:
 Amishprn86 wrote:
As a hardcore DE player, give me new units. I don't need to buy a new army i have enough of those ut if I had a new unit or 6+ like Orks, Necrons, Marines, Sisters, etc.... I would have bought 10+ new kits, DE has not gotten a new unit in 11yrs.

Note, i mean an actually New unit not a new sculpt, i have 25 metal/finecast incubi, i have 15 metal mandrakes, i have 3rd and 5th Lelith, i have all this stuff b.c there has been nothing new for 11 FREAKING YEARS, actually I've had stuff REMOVED.

The only new 40k army I'll get would be an Abhuman Beastmen army and that will never happen.


Didn't you just get 2 new characters and a melee unit, and all three are actually useful?


Karol wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Replacements, not entirely new units.


I think this is me hiting the language barrier. I really did not new there is a possibility for a new unit, to not be new. It is an interesting idea, to be honest.


Understood.

DE had many units removed b.c of Chapter house law suit, a lot of them were Iconic and used daily that players loved, before that even more DE units were removed like HQ's on bikes, wings, skyboards, Trueborn and Bloodbrides also got removed as units but now are only "upgrades" etc...

Every army in the past 10+ years has added to their range, even CWE and GK's has. DE is the only army that has not gain a new entry in their books. Yes DE got re-sculpts (5 HQ's, Wracks and Incubi) from Finecast to Plastic, but that is not a new unit. DE has been playing with the 27 units for almost decade now, they could have made Trueborn and Bloodbrides their own unit but they didn't, they could have added Archon on Bike, Flying Haemonculus, and Succubus on SKyboard but they didn't.

Why does literally every army get new units and DE doesn't? Why did Necrons get their Silent King and DE didn't get Vect? Why is SoB getting 6 more new units and DE got nothing? Why is Orks getting a 3rd new wave of models and DE got none? Why did IG get an upgrade kit and DE didn't for "fakeborns and Fakebrides"?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/16 16:17:46


15k+
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Beastmen 9500
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Reading/Writing LD, be kind!

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Made in us
Hardened Veteran Guardsman





 Amishprn86 wrote:

Why does literally every army get new units and DE doesn't?...
...Why did IG get an upgrade kit...

Minor nitpick, but I'd hardly call an upgrade sprue that may or may not even be available separately a "new kit". We'll have to wait for the IG 'dex to drop to see if we do actually get anything new this edition, and if the past five years is any indication, we likely won't get much (if anything).
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






 waefre_1 wrote:
 Amishprn86 wrote:

Why does literally every army get new units and DE doesn't?...
...Why did IG get an upgrade kit...

Minor nitpick, but I'd hardly call an upgrade sprue that may or may not even be available separately a "new kit". We'll have to wait for the IG 'dex to drop to see if we do actually get anything new this edition, and if the past five years is any indication, we likely won't get much (if anything).


My point was we don't even get a little 10 head, weapon, and banner pack for kabals/wyches to get a real trueborn/bloodbride unit or even make it feel like a new unit.

15k+
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CoS: 3500

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Right behind you.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
 waefre_1 wrote:
 Amishprn86 wrote:

Why does literally every army get new units and DE doesn't?...
...Why did IG get an upgrade kit...

Minor nitpick, but I'd hardly call an upgrade sprue that may or may not even be available separately a "new kit". We'll have to wait for the IG 'dex to drop to see if we do actually get anything new this edition, and if the past five years is any indication, we likely won't get much (if anything).


My point was we don't even get a little 10 head, weapon, and banner pack for kabals/wyches to get a real trueborn/bloodbride unit or even make it feel like a new unit.

Right, because that was such a big deal when they were an actual unit rather than just a stratagem?

People used to make really nice Trueborn/Bloodbride units just by kitbashing the spare bits from the Dark Eldar kits together. The only real "different unit" things they had were weapon loadouts anyways.

I'm not a fan of the Cadian upgrade frame. It's lazy as hell. If you want that treatment for Drukhari, you're welcome to it.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






Sure but you are missing my point, its not a unit anymore, DE has not gotten a unit sense 2010 and only had units taken away. They could have done the "Upgrade kit" route, made more money selling 2 kits for 1 unit and they didn't even do that.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/16 17:11:27


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3k
Emperor's Spears 2k
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Regular Dakkanaut




Sweden

Lower the prices by 50%.

Nurgle protects. Kinda.
 
   
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Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Right behind you.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Sure but you are missing my point, its not a unit anymore, DE has not gotten a unit sense 2010 and only had units taken away. They could have done the "Upgrade kit" route, made more money selling 2 kits for 1 unit and they didn't even do that.

Because there's no guarantee that it would actually happen for sales being made.

How many people do you realistically think are going to be buying the Cadian upgrade frame? How many people do you think have realistically been buying the Brood Brothers frame that does the same?

The only reason the BB frame is sold separately is to make it so that people look at the cost of the Brood Brothers box as a positive.
$45 for a Cadian Shock Troops box($36), a single Heavy Weapons Team(was $10 when last sold separately), and a Genestealer Cults upgrade frame($12.50) looks a lot better than $45 for a mostly complete set that still requires you to grab a Command Squad set for some of the special weapon options(plasma+meltas) or buy metal 2 packs to finish out the squad.

Unless the Trueborn or Bloodbride upgrade frames were more than just visuals, it likely would rot on shelves.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/16 17:31:20


 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






 Kanluwen wrote:
 Amishprn86 wrote:
Sure but you are missing my point, its not a unit anymore, DE has not gotten a unit sense 2010 and only had units taken away. They could have done the "Upgrade kit" route, made more money selling 2 kits for 1 unit and they didn't even do that.

Because there's no guarantee that it would actually happen for sales being made.

How many people do you realistically think are going to be buying the Cadian upgrade frame? How many people do you think have realistically been buying the Brood Brothers frame that does the same?

The only reason the BB frame is sold separately is to make it so that people look at the cost of the Brood Brothers box as a positive.
$45 for a Cadian Shock Troops box($36), a single Heavy Weapons Team(was $10 when last sold separately), and a Genestealer Cults upgrade frame($12.50) looks a lot better than $45 for a mostly complete set that still requires you to grab a Command Squad set for some of the special weapon options(plasma+meltas) or buy metal 2 packs to finish out the squad.

Unless the Trueborn or Bloodbride upgrade frames were more than just visuals, it likely would rot on shelves.


You can say the same for the 70+ new kits in the past 6 months and but here we are.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/16 17:39:16


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Emperor's Spears 2k
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Right behind you.

If you say so.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




NE Ohio, USA

nadin wrote:
Yes, yes I do. In fact, we have the full thing printed out and in binders. Point to the scroll with archers in Vampire Counts. Also, these warscrolls were severely broken by 2.0, and will be even more by 3.0.

Tomb Kings, thanks for making the point, ARE legends. And at one point I considered buying some in the secondary market. to use them in home games within Counts. It is not like I could not find them at a local store for a reasonable price (used).


So you can play your archers & you know it. You simply choose not to/won't.
Can't play =/= to your approach.



nadin wrote:
Incidentally. I hear you are coming up with siege rules, but most factions do NOT have warmachines. Now I don't know about you, but medieval armies had siege warfare, and all had siege machines of one type or another. So, are siege machines coming for ALL factions? Why do I doubt it?


You've mistaken me me for GW? You've mistaken this as a letter to GW??
Anyways, if GW comes up with siege rules, what makes you think they won't be aiming to sell every faction another expensive kit or two?



nadin wrote:
Within AOF I can run skellies, with bows, no problem as part of the undead army. I can also run my Magothkin in a balanced way. I might even start painting them now as well. it's not like I don't have them. I do. And when the rules are updated, I get a new set. I already paid for them.


You not being able to run a force in a balanced way is largely on you. Nothing forces you to take full advantage of whatever brokeness you find.

Spoiler:
There is nothing GW can do for me to buy another miniature at this point, Fix the rules, for starters, Slow the treadmill to a reasonable speed where you do not issue three codexes for the same army within a year....which is a sign of very poor playtesting and not checking the probabilistic tables and maths. Oh and do not make me buy half the rules I have to play in a faction in codexes and supplements on a good day. Then we might talk.

Oh, the archers I will be painting are originally from Mantic Games.

BTW, those scrolls were exactly what had us try AOS. The only ruleset we MIGHT continue to play because it is interesting is Warcry. We have it, but we literally are NOT looking at anything more from GW.

There was one mini my husband wanted for his Orks (Speed Freaks and Buggies, that are now legend)...it's in the mail, from the secondary market, and IT IS NOT a GW mini either.

You have the absolute right to do whatever you care to do with your IP. I have limited hobby dollars. They are going elsewhere at this point.

Oh one last thing, we are introducing my nephews (your absolute target market), to these alternate rulesets and the secondary market.


RANT rant rant.....

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/16 18:21:03


 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




And we are done with GW. If it is only me, whatever. But if it enough people that it is noticeable, it is what it is. Have a nice day.

(And the argument that is my job to balance their game is ludicrous. That is exactly what GOOD SOLID playtesting and using MATHS does. It is a core feature of game design.)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/16 18:50:12


 
   
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My biggest limiting factor has come to be the backlog of unfinished models I have. Producing models with less mold lines, fewer/concealed gaps, and paints like contrast does more to promote me personally buying more minis than anything else.
   
 
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