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Made in us
Powerful Pegasus Knight





Make the game emphasize development and battlefield tactics rather than army composition and other CCG elements.

Tone down the sheer volume of books that i need to buy just to play the game.

   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Lord Damocles wrote:

Not in a strict sense; but they do poke people to play at higher points.

If you look at a White Dwarf battle report, it will be 1500pts plus.
If you go into a GW store, they will most likely suggest playing 1500pts plus.
If you look at sample armies GW show, they will mostly be 1500pts plus.
If you attend a GW [supported] tournament it will be 1500pts plus.

Yes, anybody can play at smaller points, and can create a group which does the same, but the vast majority of existing player groups will primarily [expect to] play at higher points almost exclusively - which is obviously what GW want, because then they sell more toys.


The most recent tale of 4 gamers WD is 25 PL Combat Patrols playing Crusade and growing their armies organically for a year. BRB missions are skewed to Incursion and Strikeforce with 6 missions each while Combat Patrol and Onslaught only get 3 missions, but mission pack books are an even 6/6/6/6 split for all sizes of game.

I won't speak about tournaments or what happens in stores, because I typically don't do either of those things. If I did, maybe I would feel the pressure you write about. But I certainly don't see it in sourcebooks; if anything, they seem to me to be pushing all sizes of game more than at any other point in the game's 34 year history.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Lincoln, UK

I have Palanite and Orlock teams that will never see a game of Necromunda, but do good service as Space Police and Union Space Dock Workers respectively in other games.

Ditto with my Admech Start Collecting plus a few other bits - they are a useful generic Cyborg force, and I may even be tempted to try Combat Patrol in 9th with them.

I have a tough time resisting Start Collecting boxes. So many possibilities, and they sit really close to my idea of a big skirmish game (2nd ed 40k, Bolt Action, Gates of Antares).

I moaned about GW for years, and they've pretty much covered what I want to see at a sensible price point. Kill Team, Start Collecting, Combat Patrol. I keep finding new things to do with GW minis, and I seem to have an awful lot of 40k figures without necessarily calling myself a 40k player...

They have me hooked juuuust right!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/25 20:57:43


 
   
Made in nl
Secret Inquisitorial Eldar Xenexecutor






your mind

 Sledgehammer wrote:
Make the game emphasize development and battlefield tactics rather than army composition and other CCG elements.

Tone down the sheer volume of books that i need to buy just to play the game.



This^^
And new sculpts of old eldar ... but GW will fail in that and produce nu-dar.

   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 Sledgehammer wrote:
Make the game emphasize development and battlefield tactics rather than army composition and other CCG elements


Have you played any games in 9th?

   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Codex Gretchin
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Answer: Make armies I care about collecting and give them modern models.

Still waiting on Saurus Warriors and Noise Marines to get updates so I can start collecting those in earnest.
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot




New Jersey, State of Perfection

I'm not sure there is anything they can do... I collect literally every 40k army (well, except all the flavors of loyalist Space Marines, I have one Primaris marine army and thats it), and probably about half the Age of Sigmar armies. The only 40k faction I guess I don't explicitly collect (anymore) is Tyranids, though I have some odds and ends that I can field as allies with Genestealer Cults (as well as a gak ton of Genestealers themselves).

This ain't no pansy GW Armor, son - Digital Sculpting Plog, Now with Heavy Weapon Platforms!
Sympathy for the Devil, or: The Project Log from Hell

Ma55ter_fett wrote:It reads like the ramblings of a Nigerian lobotomized Shakespeare typed into a cellphone with a very aggressive autocomplete function.
 
   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Sledgehammer wrote:
Make the game emphasize development and battlefield tactics rather than army composition and other CCG elements


Have you played any games in 9th?



MESBG does it better. There defending a defensible position counts. Cavalry charging a deep formation of spears is unwise, but poking out and charging the flanks works great.

When I introduced my friends to MESBG, I told them "Play it like you would play a total war game". And it absolutely works.

40K is not bad but I cannot really "feel" the tactics. I play by the rules of the game and how the game is meant to be played, but I cannot apply any kind of outside strategic logic to how I play.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




1st - please, I don't want a reason (excuse) to increase my pile of shame.

2nd - I've got forces for admech, gsc, primaris marines, first born, knights, craftworld eldar, necrons and a burgeoning thousand suns force. So I pretty much have all the current armies I could want, a new army added to the game would be the only way I'd collect a further force
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Central California

I have collected 6 armies in the past, and have now stopped. It is GW's basic concept. They need to sell more models, and therefore replace the models in each army too often for me to try and keep up with more than 1 or 2 now. I do not blame them, they are a company that sells models, but it means I will not be collecting more than one army. I have boxes full of models no longer supported for no actual reason but the business model.

Keeping the hobby side alive!

I never forget the Dakka unit scale is binary: Units are either OP or Garbage. 
   
Made in fr
Longtime Dakkanaut






Lower the fething prices.

Make cheap grunt/peon unit boxed sets that may lack posability and some detail but have heavy/special weapon options. Honestly if an IG squad has less detailed faces that you can't see at like 6' that's fine if they cost a good bit less.

That's about it.

"But the universe is a big place, and whatever happens, you will not be missed..." 
   
Made in ca
Drop Trooper with Demo Charge



Canada

Cool models mainly, with allied options particularly. I'm branching off my Imperial Guard into some Genstealer Cultists because the Jackals are so darn cool.

(I'm sitting here painting up my second box right now.)

The new Ork models look cool, they might sell me a few of those and some grots as well.

Imperial Guard - 1500 GSC - 250  
   
Made in us
Powerful Pegasus Knight





 Galas wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Sledgehammer wrote:
Make the game emphasize development and battlefield tactics rather than army composition and other CCG elements


Have you played any games in 9th?



MESBG does it better. There defending a defensible position counts. Cavalry charging a deep formation of spears is unwise, but poking out and charging the flanks works great.

When I introduced my friends to MESBG, I told them "Play it like you would play a total war game". And it absolutely works.

40K is not bad but I cannot really "feel" the tactics. I play by the rules of the game and how the game is meant to be played, but I cannot apply any kind of outside strategic logic to how I play.


I have not played 9th, but the focus on meta developments, book costs, focus on army composition, stratagems etc are ALL things that deter me from coming back to the game. The 8th edition main rules really took me the wrong way, but the indexes were FOR THE MOST PART really well balanced amongst each other and i dealt with it. Quickly however the game became more and more of a TCG where your composition and the more "gamey" mechanics had a far larger impact on your ability to win rather than your tactical acumen.



For that reason i transitioned HARD to the LOTR Strategy Battle Game (this is IMO Gw's best CURRENT gamesystem) and Epic Armageddon. Both of those games feel much more satisfying to play for me personally.


I'd reccomend everyone at least try a smaller scale game like Epic Armageddon or Warmaster that also focus on the command and control aspects of warfare.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2021/04/26 00:14:08


 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 Sledgehammer wrote:

I have not played 9th, but the focus on meta developments, book costs, focus on army composition, stratagems etc are ALL things that deter me from coming back to the game. The 8th edition main rules really took me the wrong way, but the indexes were FOR THE MOST PART really well balanced amongst each other and i dealt with it. Quickly however the game became more and more of a TCG where your composition and the more "gamey" mechanics had a far larger impact on your ability to win rather than your tactical acumen.

For that reason i transitioned HARD to the LOTR Strategy Battle Game (this is IMO Gw's best CURRENT gamesystem) and Epic Armageddon. Both of those games feel much more satisfying to play for me personally.

I'd reccomend everyone at least try a smaller scale game like Epic Armageddon or Warmaster (both of these rulesets are what i'd call true wargames) and they're glorious.


I still have my Epic army around here somewhere. Good times.

The general feel of combo-stacking of 8th really isn't there in 9th. Comparing 40K to a TCG is a an oversimplified analogy that doesn't match my experience.

I get these sense that people might feel something is not a wargame if there isn't some sort of bonus for flanking an enemy or something that creates the sensation of 'I have outsmarted my opponent'. 40K doesn't create those grand moments where the enemy finally realizes their error. Often times they won't even recognize the error. In a good matchup it's a death of a 1,000 cuts - occasionally ( or frequently ) those cuts are seppuku.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/26 00:22:04


   
Made in us
Powerful Pegasus Knight





 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Sledgehammer wrote:

I have not played 9th, but the focus on meta developments, book costs, focus on army composition, stratagems etc are ALL things that deter me from coming back to the game. The 8th edition main rules really took me the wrong way, but the indexes were FOR THE MOST PART really well balanced amongst each other and i dealt with it. Quickly however the game became more and more of a TCG where your composition and the more "gamey" mechanics had a far larger impact on your ability to win rather than your tactical acumen.

For that reason i transitioned HARD to the LOTR Strategy Battle Game (this is IMO Gw's best CURRENT gamesystem) and Epic Armageddon. Both of those games feel much more satisfying to play for me personally.

I'd reccomend everyone at least try a smaller scale game like Epic Armageddon or Warmaster (both of these rulesets are what i'd call true wargames) and they're glorious.


I still have my Epic army around here somewhere. Good times.

The general feel of combo-stacking of 8th really isn't there in 9th. Comparing 40K to a TCG is a an oversimplified analogy that doesn't match my experience.

I get these sense that people might feel something is not a wargame if there isn't some sort of bonus for flanking an enemy or something that creates the sensation of 'I have outsmarted my opponent'. 40K doesn't create those grand moments where the enemy finally realizes their error. Often times they won't even recognize the error. In a good matchup it's a death of a 1,000 cuts - occasionally ( or frequently ) those cuts are seppuku.

Yes, you've very much hit the nail on the head for me personally. The buff stacking and special rules interactions within an army aren't REALLY like TCG games per-say, but it's an easy approximation to make for expediency's sake.

I understand that the current design philosophy is interesting for some people, but It just doesn't feel like I am the one with the agency to dictate the results of the battle. It feels more like I'm following an order of operations and sifting through a list of "false choices" to obtain the best numerical outcome rather than dynamically catering my strategy to the events that are unfolding before me.


All of the stratagems, special army rules, individual unit rules, and psychic powers, beside the obvious balance issues that the SHEER VOLUME of them will bring, it also brings forth an unnecessary level of detail that just makes the game less approachable, and knowable. I mean half of the game's rules now are in your codex rather than the main rulebook. I can't reasonably be expected to know your whole codex and to play and counter you appropriately if the game itself is going to be dictated primarily by those very rules that only exist in each of our respective codexs. It's just ridiculous. How can I really play the game if I only know half of it?

The cost in books is really a barrier to me purchasing more models as well. Just to play the game you need a main rulebook,a codex, and then potentially a supplement like psychic awakening or one of the new space marine ones. Is it really reasonable to expect people who might want a seperate army to buy another codex and maybe another supplement as well. When will that end? Why would i buy another army if I have to deal with all of that?

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2021/04/26 00:51:34


 
   
Made in fi
Shas'la with Pulse Carbine






What can GW do? Nothing. Been there done that, and all I got to show for it are a bunch of half assembled units I'll probably never bother finishing, obsolete books taking up shelf space and a considerable pile of shame.

I will never start collecting more than one army anymore. GW doesn't need to worry either, since I'm still spending a fair bit of money on models and terrain.

Kill Teams are much more fun to build than massive armies anyway.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/26 01:11:57


 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar






Reduce the price of minis and removal of the "no model no rules" trend.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in jp
Perfect Shot Black Templar Predator Pilot





Ishikawa Prefecture, Japan

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Haven't bought from GW since December 2019 - resist price hikes and unfair pricing outside of the UK  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





There is literally nothing they could do to make me want to collect more armies, as much as people would like to gloss over cost and rules, those are not only real answers, those are the most full answers you can give. Everything else is by comparison small issues. Affordability and an enjoyable experience you want to do over and over and can afford to do over and over is what will sell people on jumping in.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/26 07:41:25


 
   
Made in us
Charging Dragon Prince





West Lafayette, IN

Make it affordable to do so.

www.classichammer.com

For 4-6th WFB, 2-5th 40k, and similar timeframe gaming

Looking for dice from the new AOS boxed set and Dark Imperium on the cheap. Let me know if you can help.
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Its AoS, it doesn't have to make sense.
 
   
Made in us
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator





Lincolnton, N.C.

Lower the price by 30-40%. Stop coming out with new rules every 2 years. Let an edition ride for 5-6 years. Cheaper books, go back to smaller paperback ones like 3rd for about 15-20 bucks US.

My beloved 40K armies:
Children of Stirba
Order of Saint Pan Thera


DR:80S+++G+M+B++IPw40K(3)00-D++A+++/cWD233R---T(M)DM+ 
   
Made in pl
Regular Dakkanaut




Change rules to something that makes more sense and isn't just boring dice rolling.
   
Made in it
Gargantuan Gargant




Italy

Reduce prices.

I wanted to collect 2500-3000 points of sisters, but not at the current prices, which I can afford but I don't think they worth that much. If those models cost like SM during 7th or early 8th edition I would have bought lots of sisters. I mean 35$ for a 10 man squad or a rhino, 25-30 for a 5 man squad, 40-45 for a tank, etc...

I also always liked Tyranids, AM and Necrons but the models all look like the same and IMHO they'd be extremely boring to assemble and paint. To collect those I'd need pre-assembled and pre-paint armies. They look fantastic once they're finished, I love their style(s) of playing and lore but I'm simply not interested in doing any work on them.

Orks 7000
Space Wolves 4000
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Stop playing favourites with armies and put equal effort into all armies.

I got very excited for war of the spider as I wanted to a creations of bile army and frankly it was a total damp squib and the book with his picture on the front was dedicated to SOB, DG and assassins.

This applies to faction thinking aswell. It’s ridiculous that we don’t have a emperors children or world eaters army
   
Made in ch
Warped Arch Heretic of Chaos





GW could reestablish my faction..
GW could also cut the price for models by 20 %
GW could make all the rules and especialy pts updates free.
GW could increase quality of rules.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
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 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
Made in gb
Killer Klaivex




The dark behind the eyes.

 Sledgehammer wrote:
Make the game emphasize development and battlefield tactics rather than army composition and other CCG elements.

Tone down the sheer volume of books that i need to buy just to play the game.


This.


mrFickle wrote:
Stop playing favourites with armies and put equal effort into all armies.


I don't know if this would encourage me to collect more armies but it might at least encourage me to collect more stuff for the ones I already own.


PenitentJake wrote:
Avoid an edition reset. I'm done when and if 10th happens.


I think the worst part is when the new edition throws away almost everything learned in the previous one.

e.g. GW spent most of 8th gradually tweaking and adjusting points to get a lot of options into pretty good positions. And then they ditched all that and made everything a multiple of 5. So now we're back to square one with countless instances of 2 options costing the same even though one is objectively better, or a better option being so much more expensive than a competing option that it's just not worth bothering with.

Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.
 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"



 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

Well, I find SM armies boring in several ways despite the fact that they have more than 100 data sheets and more than 30 bolter types atm.
I'd be more into a combined themed army with Knight, Armigers and Primaries/Tacticals.

Former moderator 40kOnline

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Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in de
Dakka Veteran





For me it comes down to design and execution of the models, rules are no factor in my decision.
I don't think there is any faction that doesn't appeal to me in a general sense, it's just that I dislike the way some of them have been realised.
I've been a fan of Tau for 20 years, but their current focus on suits and negligence of allies makes them a no-go for me as an army. The Commander kit is fantastic, however, so I've bought several of them over time just to tinker around with.

Sometimes I will go the extra mile and "salvage" parts of a model or faction if I really want to make it work, but most of the time it's a very clear and immediate yes/no type decision. Be'Lakor was a straight up "no", while Abaddon, Cawl and Ghaz were must haves on first sight.

It's my main gripe with AoS factions, which often have an interesting concept but a lackluster or over-the-top execution.

Cursed City is a typical example, where I adore some of the miniatures and wouldn't touch other parts of the box with a ten foot pole. It also contains Radukar who needs a fair amount of resculpting but has such a great overall concept that I will gladly invest the time to make him work for me.

   
Made in us
Excited Doom Diver






The only thing stopping me from collecting more armies, is that I barely have time to play games with the collection I currently have.

Space Wolves 4k
Harlequins 2k
Chaos Knights 2k
Spiderfangs 2k
Ossiarch Bonereapers 1k 
   
 
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