Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Armand wrote:I am order number 1067, and I haven't received a shipping confirmation yet...

Having ordered 4 premium mega armies and the rulebook, I hope they didn't forget me....

I asked Dave to redirect them to my house, hope you didn't mind.

Envy. I would just love to dump £1000 on this game right here and now.

Although it will probably be Wednesday, I'd love my stuff to turn up tomorrow, I've got an entire free day in which I could get it painted (off work, partner away until Wednesday, food in the house, no planned trips out)

I think the buildings got me the giddiest of everything today.

Riquende wrote:Although it will probably be Wednesday, I'd love my stuff to turn up tomorrow, I've got an entire free day in which I could get it painted (off work, partner away until Wednesday, food in the house, no planned trips out)

Meanwhile paint your orks, if you don't have any orks to paint get some. You know the green horde is right.

From reading the newsletter it seems that Hawk Wargames are having the same issue that Spartan had in their early days. They're already having to upgrade their tooling so they can double the rate of production. Can only be a good sign for the future of the company really if their first product is that popular.

Orlanth wrote:

Riquende wrote:Although it will probably be Wednesday, I'd love my stuff to turn up tomorrow, I've got an entire free day in which I could get it painted (off work, partner away until Wednesday, food in the house, no planned trips out)

Meanwhile paint your orks, if you don't have any orks to paint get some. You know the green horde is right.

I'll die before I play orcs in any game system!

Rulebook should be with me within the hour!

...but I have to go out until about 12, if nobody's answering questions then, I'll be more than happy to

Update: just had an email saying a courier will be here between 10 and 11 today with my stuff!

ITS HERE

EDIT: seriously, no questions?

wow, box the size of a land raider for a box of cards, don't think Hawk were prepared for small orders

...There's an errata sheet already, not great - but at least it was included with the book!

Mmmm new book smell...the book's really heavy, probably due to high gauge paper. production quality's great, very legible

...seriously, post some damn questions...

statline:
A - Armour
Mv - Move
CM - Countermeasures
DP - Damage Points
Pts - Points
Type - Type of unit
Category - place in army list (kinda like FOC slot)
S+C - Squad Size & Coherency
CQB - Close Quarters Battle - Essentially melee stat, infantry only
F - Fortitude - another infantry-only melee stat
LZ - Landing Zone - Aircraft only
Special - other rules

What...is your favorite color...?

Er...

In general, what are the rules like? Are they fairly similiar to 40k, to Flames of War, to Dystopian Wars/Firestorm Armada, to Heavy Gear, or are they radically removed from all of them?


Aircraft, can only dedicated AA guns hit them?

In general, how are armies organized (e.g. is there a 40k style FoC or is it more organized like say, Flames of War where a particular role has multiple unit choices?)

I know its a big question, but do you have any idea of the points difference between the starter armies?

Orlanth wrote:

Armand wrote:I am order number 1067, and I haven't received a shipping confirmation yet...

Having ordered 4 premium mega armies and the rulebook, I hope they didn't forget me....

I asked Dave to redirect them to my house, hope you didn't mind.

Envy. I would just love to dump £1000 on this game right here and now.

Well, it's probably the last time I spend some money on miniatures, at least for a while, since I found out I lost my job a few days after the order...

So, well, I hope they arrive...

I need to set up my expansion plans

Vaktathi wrote:What...is your favorite color...?

Blue

Vaktathi wrote:In general, what are the rules like? Are they fairly similiar to 40k, to Flames of War, to Dystopian Wars/Firestorm Armada, to Heavy Gear, or are they radically removed from all of them?

I haven't seen/played half of those
First impressions? very tightly written, VERY - there are rules for pretty much everything. This could lead to confusion or a lot of rulebook-flipping, so I guess it depends on what you like.
I have a feeling this is going to be an incredibly fun game, but hard to get into

Vaktathi wrote:Aircraft, can only dedicated AA guns hit them?

Unless they land, yes. AA weapons can also fire at ground targets, but not very well

Vaktathi wrote:In general, how are armies organized (e.g. is there a 40k style FoC or is it more organized like say, Flames of War where a particular role has multiple unit choices?)

Army is made up of Battlegroups

Battlegroups are made of Selections

Selections are made up of bases, the number of which is determined by the S+P stat for that selection

Number of selections in a battlegroup, and number of battlegroups are determined by the size of the battle:
skirmish: 500-999 pts
clash: 1000-1999pts
Battle - 2000-3000pts

Rat wrote:I know its a big question, but do you have any idea of the points difference between the starter armies?

Um..yes, it's a big question. If nobody else posts an answer this afternoon, I'll work out a detailed breakdown later, ok?

UCM starter looks, at a glance, to be 5-600ish points at a VERY rough glance.
3x rapiers - 135
3x condors - 93
3x sabres - 111

yeah, 600 seems roughly right

Gotta go SOON, so if you have any quick questions you desperately want answered, now's the time

EDIT: Little snippet to illustrate how detailed the rules are - you cross-reference the size of a building with the length of time they've been in there to determine the roll an infantry unit requires to get an objective

Great, thanks a lot for doing this Charax!

Wow I'm surprised about the level of detail in the rules. But, perhaps it makes sense as it looks like the model count isn't particularly massive compared to some other games, and especially at 10mm scale. Is that a correct assumption, what kind of army/point size do you think the game is recommended to be played at?

I hate having to work during the day. In theory my stuff will arrive between 11 and 12:45 but I won't be there to sign for it. I'll be lucky if I get my order this week.

Um..yes, it's a big question. If nobody else posts an answer this afternoon, I'll work out a detailed breakdown later, ok?

Awesome! Thanks very much for all the info.

Charax wrote:
[...]Little snippet to illustrate how detailed the rules are - you cross-reference the size of a building with the length of time they've been in there to determine the roll an infantry unit requires to get an objective

That is full of WIN. Seriously! Vary cinematic and feels "real"!

I hope my book sits on my doorstep when I get home from work!

I was going to come here and bitch about how Dave has been silent on his twitter account for a month now. Suffice to say, I've forgiven him. The scans of the rulebook found here and all the new stuff in the DL section on Hawk wargame's page is mouth watering. Only a few more days and I can order the rulebook from Maelstrom. Then it's a matter of consideration whether or not me and my friend are investing in this game as well. But it certainly looks promising.

Charax,

You say that battle groups are made up of selections, but is it possible for them to consist of multiple drop ships carrying multiple units? I'm just asking because the Standard Army Roster table would seem to be spread very thin otherwise. Example: If the two units of tanks from the starter box fill up an armor section each, but due to their drop ship size can't be increased in size, then does that mean you have to buy a bigger drop ship in addition to more tanks to play bigger games? I don't imagine this is actually how it works, but would like to know.

That said -- looking very forward to the arrival of my Shaltari. Most of what I've seen so far looks spot on.

To echo Nightwolf above, I asked this last page:

Any chance of more rulebook info, I.e. anything about force construction / limitations? All I know is "no all fighter jet forces" or the like.

Charax, thanks very much for posting the pic of the chart, but I don't understand what those categories are. Can I not put different things inside a dropship? I.e. infantry APCs and heavy tanks? I don't understand what category that would fall in.

And as Nightwolf said, can multiple dropships be a single selection... or multiple fighters, etc.

I would like to know about the missions, and the goal of the game. How many missions are there? Are some army specific? Could you describe one or more of the missions in detail?

Armand wrote:

Orlanth wrote:

Armand wrote:I am order number 1067, and I haven't received a shipping confirmation yet...

Having ordered 4 premium mega armies and the rulebook, I hope they didn't forget me....

I asked Dave to redirect them to my house, hope you didn't mind.

Envy. I would just love to dump £1000 on this game right here and now.

Well, it's probably the last time I spend some money on miniatures, at least for a while, since I found out I lost my job a few days after the order...

So, well, I hope they arrive...

I am currently out too, this is why I cannot buy in. Its frustrating. Damn recession.

The thing is when you're poor the discounts matter more, so for me its all about saving up realistic and responsible amounts of money to buy mega deals even though the amount of money for the buy in is very large. As by bills are all paid and I don't drink much or smoke 'realistic' is a sizable proportion of this months money.

Good luck in finding a new job, its tough right now.

YAY!

My order has arrived, unboxing now

Charax wrote:

EDIT: seriously, no questions?

My big question is the points breakdown, i.e which armies will be bigger and by how much.

Please fill in the blanks of the points list for the following for comparison:

Edit: Done and done, thankyou.

Note providing points for some is a 'review', providing points for all units is 'infringement'.

With those we will get a good idea of how the game scales, so let us say UCM will outnumber Shaltari an average of 4:3, or 3:2 or 2:1 etc.

On my way home, scan get back to answering, but just quickly - 1 selection is not always 1 model, it could be 1-3 tanks or 2-3 infantry stands, so multiple fighters as a single selection is possible.

Most dropships are transport options for selections, not selections themselves, not sure on mixed occupancy, but would assume so (I'm not filling a scourge heavy with 9 of a single tank!)

Mixed occupancy for large dropships is certain, the large UCM, Scourge and PHR boxsets cannot transport everything without it.

Basic Tank:

Sabre: 37
Hunter: 35
Ares: 50
Tomahawk: 38

Heavy Tank:

Gladius: 59
Slayer: 54
Odin: 63
Jaguar: 100 (!)

AA Unit:

Rapier: 45
Reaper: 39
Phobos: 63
Kukri: 45

Medium Dropship:

Condor: 31
Marauder: 41
Neptune: 45
Eden: 45

Infantry Carrying:

Bear: 16
Invader: 17
Juno: 27 (with cannon) / 18 (with miniguns)
Haven: 15

Stock Infantry:

Legionnaires: 26
Warriors: 27
Immortals:36
Braves: 32

Riquende wrote:Below.......

Thanks for that.


Basic Tank: - Pretty much similar all round
Sabre: 37 (111)
Hunter: 35 (105)
Ares: 50 (100)
Tomahawk: 38 (114)

Heavy Tank: - Again similar
Gladius: 59 (118)
Slayer: 54 (108)
Odin: 63 (126)
Jaguar: 100 (!) - you only get one per unit, the rest are in pairs.

AA Unit: - interesting how they all cost so much more than the tanks
Rapier: 45 (135)
Reaper: 39 (117)
Phobos: 63 (126)
Kukri: 45 (135)

Medium Dropship: - so your choice of carriage doesnt really efect the price much. If we go by the ratios already given 'a heavy dropship carries three times a medium and costs two and a half times as much' we get a good indicator of the amount of points sunk into transport, i.e not much compared to their presence on the gametop. In suppose this also means Shaltari gain little by lowballing the number of gates they use.
Condor: 31
Marauder: 41
Neptune: 45
Eden: 45

Infantry Carrying:
Bear: 16 (32)
Invader: 17 (34)
Juno: 27 (with cannon) / 18 (with miniguns) (54/36)
Haven: 15 (30)

Stock Infantry: - broadly similar in price structure.
Legionnaires: 26 (156)
Warriors: 27 (162)
Immortals:36 (144)
Braves: 32 (128)

Thoughts.
Ok, while the army boxes are not points balanced and Hawk never implied they were it appears they have some similarity. I was wondering that in order to fight a mega deals worth of PHR I would need as much as two mega deals worth of UCM. Now its more like having an extra dropship or two and cargo extra. Scourge despite having anti grav tech are actually cheaper, so they can have a proper swarm list. I like that.

well, posting a breakdown of the army deals seems a little redundant now Riquende's done that

Give me a sec to go back and grab all the questions I missed

spaceelf wrote:I would like to know about the missions, and the goal of the game. How many missions are there? Are some army specific? Could you describe one or more of the missions in detail?

Targets of Opportunity
a number of buildings (scales with battle size) contain objectives, uses Kill Points otherwise, looks like your pretty standard starter scenario

Recon
Any number of structures (suggestions of 5-10 for a skirmish, 7-15 for a Clash and 11+ for a Battle) containing Pieces of Intel (Objectives that may or may not be actual objectives)
This looks fun as all hell, to be honest

Encroachment
Deployment zones! (6" in)
6 turn slugfest, at the end you total up killpoints with the value of friendly units in the enemy's half of the table, infantry in structures count 3x!
This one's going to be messy.

Search
2-4 player objective grab. Even number of Possible Objectives (Pick up possible objective, roll to see if real) spread evenly over each quarter of the board (can be in the open), winner determined by VPs

Land Grab
2-4 players fight over control of 2-4 Focal Points (give VPs for friendly units in proximity)

Can't be bothered to summarize the rest, but they are:
Battle Royale
Strongpoint Raid
The Hunt
Demolition
Decapitation
Bridgehead
Gauntlet

No faction-specific ones (wouldn't have expected there to be, maybe for an expansion) but some scenarios alter the Army Rosters by having an Attacker or Defender:


In case anyone wanted a worked example of shooting:
Sabre MBT shooting Scourge Hunter MGT:
Scourge Hunter has Active Countermeasures, so the Sabre's railgun must use its Countered range of 24" (as opposed to its full range of Infinite)
Sabre railgun has an accuracy of 2+, hits. Hunter has no Passive countermeasures, so cant roll to negate the hit
Sabre railgun is Energy 10, Vs the Hunter's armour of 8 means it needs 3+ to damage, if a 5+ is rolled, 2 damage points would be inflicted
Hunter has one DP, so dies horribly.