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As a long-time Thousand Sons player, I've been looking forward to this day... I've bought a ton of various bits (GW and otherwise) over the years to do a pre-Heresy force at some point. I figured seeing FW finally jump in would be great (if probably bad for my wallet). But clearly, I haven't been tracking FW prices recently.

Is £44 (what, ~$66, plus shipping and little to no discounts to be found) for 10 models-worth of resin conversion parts *really* the FW norm now?!!? Throw in the plastics, and that'd be ~$100 for a single squad of bog-standard tactical marines.

Wow... I... just can't process that to be honest.

I really don't mean to turn this into a complaint about GW/FW prices, but my flabber has quite literally been gasted by those prices.

Just, wow...

Valete,

JohnS

 cygnnus wrote:
As a long-time Thousand Sons player, I've been looking forward to this day... I've bought a ton of various bits (GW and otherwise) over the years to do a pre-Heresy force at some point. I figured seeing FW finally jump in would be great (if probably bad for my wallet). But clearly, I haven't been tracking FW prices recently.

Is £44 (what, ~$66, plus shipping and little to no discounts to be found) for 10 models-worth of resin conversion parts *really* the FW norm now?!!? Throw in the plastics, and that'd be ~$100 for a single squad of bog-standard tactical marines.

Wow... I... just can't process that to be honest.

I really don't mean to turn this into a complaint about GW/FW prices, but my flabber has quite literally been gasted by those prices.

Just, wow...

Valete,

JohnS

buy a battle at calth box for 30 then upgrades as needed or is that what you meant by plastics?

 cygnnus wrote:
As a long-time Thousand Sons player, I've been looking forward to this day... I've bought a ton of various bits (GW and otherwise) over the years to do a pre-Heresy force at some point. I figured seeing FW finally jump in would be great (if probably bad for my wallet). But clearly, I haven't been tracking FW prices recently.

Is £44 (what, ~$66, plus shipping and little to no discounts to be found) for 10 models-worth of resin conversion parts *really* the FW norm now?!!? Throw in the plastics, and that'd be ~$100 for a single squad of bog-standard tactical marines.

Wow... I... just can't process that to be honest.

I really don't mean to turn this into a complaint about GW/FW prices, but my flabber has quite literally been gasted by those prices.

Just, wow...

Valete,

JohnS

I don't think you're meant to use the upgrades for every single marine. Well, I'm sure FW would love you to, but it's not financially viable really. Most people just sprinkle them through the marines for a bit of variety.

I don't think you're meant to use the upgrades for every single marine. Well, I'm sure FW would love you to, but it's not financially viable really. Most people just sprinkle them through the marines for a bit of variety.

this would suggest otherwise:
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Thousand-Sons-Task-Force

EDIT: just re-read what you wrote, and can see that was kinda the point you were making. sorry, half asleep. d'oh.

See when I use legion upgrades, my thinking is that the bling would only really be on the marines who were recruited from the Primarch's home world. The non-bling guys would be those recruited prior to being re-united with their Primarch... Just a thought.

The point with the upgrade packs(IMO)is to use them sparingly, so that one marine here might have a Legion-specific helmet, and this guy over here has the torso armor, and so on.

 Mr. Grey wrote:
The point with the upgrade packs(IMO)is to use them sparingly, so that one marine here might have a Legion-specific helmet, and this guy over here has the torso armor, and so on.

And @angelofvengeance and @imageek, that doesn't work for me... The pre-Heresy legions were not struggling to bash kit together to equip their Legionnaires like they were during the latter stages of the Heresy or like the Chapters must by the 40k era. Having mix-and-match armor and "bling", to me, just doesn't look good.

If I'm doing a Legion, I want it to look the part as a cohesive whole. I have no interest in the look of mix-and-match armor. <shrug>

There are, at least, some other options for things like the helmets from other companies, and maybe FW will come up with some amazing 1kSons-exclusive specialty units/characters that'll tempt me, but as of right now, I guess (even though I've been a Thousand Sons player for a long time) I can't see myself building a Heresy-era Sons force using FW parts.

Valete,

JohnS

You should learn how to press-mold green stuff, it's not that hard.

 cygnnus wrote:

 Mr. Grey wrote:
The point with the upgrade packs(IMO)is to use them sparingly, so that one marine here might have a Legion-specific helmet, and this guy over here has the torso armor, and so on.

And @angelofvengeance and @imageek, that doesn't work for me... The pre-Heresy legions were not struggling to bash kit together to equip their Legionnaires like they were during the latter stages of the Heresy or like the Chapters must by the 40k era. Having mix-and-match armor and "bling", to me, just doesn't look good.

If I'm doing a Legion, I want it to look the part as a cohesive whole. I have no interest in the look of mix-and-match armor. <shrug>

While the supply situation was certainly better during the crusade than during the heresy I never got the feeling that all the legions were immediately re-supplied all the time. They were attached to sometimes far-flung expeditionary fleets and there may have been years between major resupplies from Terra or other major imperial centres. Much of the day-to-day maintenance were done through repairs and rudimentary ship-based manufacturing.

Of course one might prefer the aestetic of a more cohesive 30k force but I'd say it's well within the scope of the background to have plenty of individual variation.

I emailed FW asking about additional heads and guns for the Warlord, expecting a non answer. That is pretty much what I got, but they did say the Warhammer World head was already out. Is anyone going to be going to WHW that can check that out for me?

I emailed FW to find out how they achieved that nice metallic red effect, here's what they said:

"Thank you for your email. Here is the Thousand Sons Colour Scheme you inquired about -

Thousand Sons

Metallic Scheme:

It is black undercoat, airbrush with Iron hands FW paint leaving the lower parts of the armour plates black, airbrush upper parts of the armour plates with runefang steel as a highlight.

Then a few thinned layers of clear red are airbrushed all over, waiting for the previous layer to dry before applying the next (so it would be useful to paint large batches of marines at the same time).

Shade the recesses with nuln oil and then weather the edges with runefang steel.

The gold is retributor gold, shaded with seraphim sepia and highlighted with runefang steel.

The brass is runelord brass, shaded with seraphim sepia.

The eyes are painted black, single line in the centre with white and then washed with FW clear green paint.

The white on the bolters and legion icon is celestra grey, ulthuan grey and then white highlights. The hollow tactical arrow is from the Iron Warriors transfer sheet."

I got this reply scant hours after I sent the email, FW customer support are grand people.

Really love the 1k Sons helmets, but a little disappointed with the four bodies on the left of the picture - they seem quite plain compared to the artwork and the other body upgrades.

 Mr. Grey wrote:
The point with the upgrade packs(IMO)is to use them sparingly, so that one marine here might have a Legion-specific helmet, and this guy over here has the torso armor, and so on.

I've always seen it as the full upgrades are more for veterans, the ones who have earned their bling, and everyone else (the scrubs) just get the marked shoulderpads.

 Dr. Delorean wrote:
I emailed FW to find out how they achieved that nice metallic red effect, here's what they said:

"Thank you for your email. Here is the Thousand Sons Colour Scheme you inquired about -

Thousand Sons

Metallic Scheme:

It is black undercoat, airbrush with Iron hands FW paint leaving the lower parts of the armour plates black, airbrush upper parts of the armour plates with runefang steel as a highlight.

Then a few thinned layers of clear red are airbrushed all over, waiting for the previous layer to dry before applying the next (so it would be useful to paint large batches of marines at the same time).

Shade the recesses with nuln oil and then weather the edges with runefang steel.

The gold is retributor gold, shaded with seraphim sepia and highlighted with runefang steel.

The brass is runelord brass, shaded with seraphim sepia.

The eyes are painted black, single line in the centre with white and then washed with FW clear green paint.

The white on the bolters and legion icon is celestra grey, ulthuan grey and then white highlights. The hollow tactical arrow is from the Iron Warriors transfer sheet."

I got this reply scant hours after I sent the email, FW customer support are grand people.

Now this is great stuff since that paint scheme is probably the best I've seen...

Valete,

JohnS

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

 Mr. Grey wrote:
The point with the upgrade packs(IMO)is to use them sparingly, so that one marine here might have a Legion-specific helmet, and this guy over here has the torso armor, and so on.

I've always seen it as the full upgrades are more for veterans, the ones who have earned their bling, and everyone else (the scrubs) just get the marked shoulderpads.

I can see that. I'd consider doing something along those lines for an Alpha Legion Headhunter team, maybe. (If Headhunters don't get their own unique models or whatever.)

While I like the TSons upgrade pack I am disappointed about the lack of variety that it offers. Three different torsos and four helmets does seem a little lazy for the price that they charge. When I picture what a standard marine looks like I see them as each having their own unique flair, take this picture for example.



For the time being I think I will stick to these guys which are 1/3 the price and all unique sculpts (even if some bits are a little Chaosy)
http://wargameexclusive.com/shop/chaos/thousand-sons-marines-conversion-set/

On a more positive note, those are some beautifully painted models. Turns out FW does know how to do infantry after all! Thanks for getting the recipe the used Delorean

The five torsos are actually all different.

 Commander Cain wrote:
While I like the TSons upgrade pack I am disappointed about the lack of variety that it offers. Three different torsos and four helmets does seem a little lazy for the price that they charge. When I picture what a standard marine looks like I see them as each having their own unique flair, take this picture for example.

Spoiler:

For the time being I think I will stick to these guys which are 1/3 the price and all unique sculpts (even if some bits are a little Chaosy)
http://wargameexclusive.com/shop/chaos/thousand-sons-marines-conversion-set/

On a more positive note, those are some beautifully painted models. Turns out FW does know how to do infantry after all! Thanks for getting the recipe the used Delorean

Remember this is just the first Thousand sons parts we have seen, there will be plenty of special units and some characters to follow and maybe even some more upgrades yet !

I can't wait to see their Cataphractii!

Do 1k sons use daemons much on Prospero/after Prospero then? I know the Word Bearers jumped in at the deep end, but what about this lot?

T-sons tend to be more psychic attacks and spells than Daemons at this point in the timeline.

 cygnnus wrote:

 Mr. Grey wrote:
The point with the upgrade packs(IMO)is to use them sparingly, so that one marine here might have a Legion-specific helmet, and this guy over here has the torso armor, and so on.

And @angelofvengeance and @imageek, that doesn't work for me... The pre-Heresy legions were not struggling to bash kit together to equip their Legionnaires like they were during the latter stages of the Heresy or like the Chapters must by the 40k era. Having mix-and-match armor and "bling", to me, just doesn't look good.

If I'm doing a Legion, I want it to look the part as a cohesive whole. I have no interest in the look of mix-and-match armor. <shrug>

There are, at least, some other options for things like the helmets from other companies, and maybe FW will come up with some amazing 1kSons-exclusive specialty units/characters that'll tempt me, but as of right now, I guess (even though I've been a Thousand Sons player for a long time) I can't see myself building a Heresy-era Sons force using FW parts.

Valete,

JohnS

John,

If I was starting 1KSons and was trying to keep the cost more manageable, I'd probably focus on using the helmets throughout. They're nice, and the head is usually a focal point for a mini anyway. I'd use the torsos on vets and sergeants, and skip on the molded pads in favor of transfers, which aren't out yet but will be by the time the Prospero book drops in 2016. I know what you're saying about wanting everything to look cohesive, but I think the helmets, insignia, and unified color scheme would do most of the heavy lifting there.

At least these upgrade bits are nice. I'm working on World Eaters, and while they've gotten a good amount of love overall from FW, I'm not crazy about their helmets or torsos. Especially since they're Mk.2 styled and I'm building on Mk.4 chassis. I really wish they'd done Sarum-pattern helmets instead. Anyway, as a result I'm only using the torsos here and there, and using the bunny-eared helmets on sergeants. I may convert my own Sarum helmets (and bunny ears) at some point using Mk.7 helmets.

I think almost every HH player has made some hard choices like this regarding their army, just because the prices will make your eyes water.

BTW, I was hoping to be ready to make the Old Line Massacre event down your way this spring (assuming they're having it again), but I'm not sure if I'll have my army done by then.

 Mr. Grey wrote:
The point with the upgrade packs(IMO)is to use them sparingly, so that one marine here might have a Legion-specific helmet, and this guy over here has the torso armor, and so on.

That said, Thousand Sons were my very first power armor 40k armies, and one of my very favorite forces in the entire 30k/40k universe.

So, I'm going to be poor, outfitting everybody with upgrady goodness.

It's worrying that my Thousand Sons (who are obviously Thousand Sons due to the sculpts) that were built using the original upgrade packs cost £36 (at full, current RRP - I spent roughly £28 per squad).

Compare that to the FW upgrade pack at £44 for rather plain pieces BEFORE adding the chaos space marine parts from the tactical squad set.... eurgh, that's £67.50 est....

Better off buying the original GW ones and painting them red.


To illustrate my point on detail (and price).... here are some parts from a competitor




Each kit works out at £17.51......





EDIT: Just noticed someone else has also had the same idea above!

Personally I dislike the idea of legionnaries walking around with torso armor to one MK and and a helmet from another and arms from another just to 'bling' them out. Honestly I don't even like the legion specific armor even as a concept. It would make sense in 40k but not in 30k. Legionnaries were mass produced armor that is seen as just armor. Not a suit of armor a techpriest spent 100 years building to give to a chapter or a chaos marines personal embellishments and represents a walking church prayer.

To me legionnaries should look like they are wearing armor that went through an assembly line. Tactical markings, legion markings all just sprayed on and given to the legionnarie to wear until it can not longer make the mission and gets scrapped for a new suit.

Maybe veterans and suits of artificed armor would be embellished or legion specific units that look unique because they are unique. However, a line legionnarie to me should look just like every other line legionnarie.

Well at least thats my 2 cents lol.

 Wulfmar wrote:
It's worrying that my Thousand Sons (who are obviously Thousand Sons due to the sculpts) that were built using the original upgrade packs cost £36 (at full, current RRP - I spent roughly £28 per squad).

Compare that to the FW upgrade pack at £44 for rather plain pieces BEFORE adding the chaos space marine parts from the tactical squad set.... eurgh, that's £67.50 est....

Better off buying the original GW ones and painting them red.


To illustrate my point on detail (and price).... here are some parts from a competitor

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Each kit works out at £17.51......

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

EDIT: Just noticed someone else has also had the same idea above!

You missed Maxmini's Steam Knight heads...

http://maxmini.eu/conversion-bits/head-swaps/steam-knights-heads-bits

They work quite a bit better for pre-Heresy Thousand Sons IMHO, although all of the above are brilliant for 40k 1kSons. €6.99 for 10 heads and, when I ordered mine, Maxmini were happy to let me order the specific mix of heads. I particularly link the first and last for Thousand Sons myself.

Valete,

JohnS

 BrotherGecko wrote:
Personally I dislike the idea of legionnaries walking around with torso armor to one MK and and a helmet from another and arms from another just to 'bling' them out. Honestly I don't even like the legion specific armor even as a concept. It would make sense in 40k but not in 30k. Legionnaries were mass produced armor that is seen as just armor. Not a suit of armor a techpriest spent 100 years building to give to a chapter or a chaos marines personal embellishments and represents a walking church prayer.

To me legionnaries should look like they are wearing armor that went through an assembly line. Tactical markings, legion markings all just sprayed on and given to the legionnarie to wear until it can not longer make the mission and gets scrapped for a new suit.

Maybe veterans and suits of artificed armor would be embellished or legion specific units that look unique because they are unique. However, a line legionnarie to me should look just like every other line legionnarie.

Well at least thats my 2 cents lol.

Legion specific bling has been in the HH imagery since the HH card game, though. So, what, 2003? Sure, that doesn't date all the way back to the snippets we got in the early days, but there wasn't a whole lot of information to go on in those days, either.

The Index Astartes series of articles, from even before the HH card game, showed varying degrees of legion specific bling, from Alpha Legion (none at all), Space Wolves (wolf pelt covering the left shoulder plate and a wolf tail talisman, Dark Angels (again, none), Iron Warriors (3D legion symbol on shoulder plate and cog tooth type bling on the feet and legs), and even as simple as a hanging tabard on a Thousand Sons legionnaire.

The point is, to an extent, legion specific armor variance, or "bling" has been a thing for well over a decade now, it's not a recent invention of Forgeworld.

I'm sure that many, even most, line legionaries in some companies of any given legion were assembly line identical, so you can clearly model your legion to fit that aesthetic. I'm equally sure that in other companies of any given legion, personalization and customization of equipment was far more widespread, so I can happily model to a different look than you, and we'd both be correct.

I can see both arguments for bling and the lack of it. I can't see the price tag justification though - it's as ornate as a normal CSM tactical sprue and twice the price for half the model

On reflection (and spending more time looking closely at the shoulder pads), I'm going just heads and torsos, and shoulder pads will get the transfers when they get to those.

The legion specific armor variants are because of how wide spread Legion operations took place and the amount of autonomy and resources they were afforded during this era. Many of the fleets fly along with Mechanicum factory ships producing materiale where ever the crusade goes. Consider if a legion went to a planet where a different type of respirator or filtration plug was needed on their armor they'd get what they needed. Consider all the different environments they encountered over the hundreds of years across countless planets and you're going to have some variation. Then add distinct honors and legion preferences and you have all the variants.