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 Cortez667 wrote:
Well, the Rough Riders are no where on the GW site, so the rumor of them getting dropped completely from a while ago may be true.

That's been discussed waaay back in the thread. It's not necessarily an indication that they are being dropped. GW often remove stuff from the website temporarily when they run out of existing stock and don't want to run a new batch because there is a new version coming.

BoLS came out with a rumor recently that Nork is featured in the kit as the one with the fancy stache on his face. Personally I feel as if this is an insult to everyone's favorite Ogryn.

There was another scarred head (no longer showing in the OP) with a commisar capped vox caster that looked much more likely for Nork.

I believe that one being Nork to be far more likely, as that model does show Nork's scars on his head with the staples too. Also that Commissar cap is going on Norks head.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
You'd have a point if I hadn't specifically brought up that I don't even see them get played in fluffy games. As it stands, them having ass rules is only half of it, the other half is that, as far as I can tell, they just aren't a very popular Guard unit in general.

Only because of the complete lack of inspiration, given the Attilans have never held most people's interests and the models look like garbage.

Unless they made distinctly Attilan only RR's, they'd gather a lot of attention I'd wager.

 BunkerBob wrote:
I really want good RR units with solid rules. I'm not asking for cheese just good models with solid rules. I want a rough rider army so I can field Theodore Roosevelt on a dirt bike shooting twin plasma pistols into the air with George Washington leading a unit of storm troopers while Abe Lincoln commands a tank squadron!

I need my fantasy to work, I need it.

I have no idea what rules are coming up but I do want to see Abe Lincoln Tank Commander.

I think they need to rethink RR, ruleswise. To me RR are another unit that just like Storm Troopers speak to the galactic spanning imperial nature of the Imperium and Imperial Guard. At the same time horseman throughout history have represented a more elite warrior. These are two aspects present in the fluff but lacking in their rules. Additionally one of the main advantages of horsemen are their ability to carry more than an unmounted soldier.

They should be less like fodder on horseback and more like veterans or storm troopers on horseback. They should have a carapace armor option, they should ranged weapons and lances, and they should have mounts that are more than just horses.

 aka_mythos wrote:
I think they need to reinvent RR. To me RR are another unit that just like Storm Troopers speak to the galactic spanning imperial nature of the Imperium and Imperial Guard. At the same time horseman throughout history have represented a more elite warrior. These are two aspects present in the fluff but lacking in their rules. Additionally one of the main advantages of horsemen are their ability to carry more than an unmounted soldier.

They should be less like fodder on horseback and more like veterans or storm troopers on horseback. They should have a carapace armor option, they should ranged weapons and lances, and they should have mounts that are more than just horses.

Agree on all counts

I agree, Rough Riders have always had amazing potential that has never been realised. Would love to see some non-horse mount options and a more flexible unit.

 aka_mythos wrote:
I think they need to rethink RR, ruleswise. To me RR are another unit that just like Storm Troopers speak to the galactic spanning imperial nature of the Imperium and Imperial Guard. At the same time horseman throughout history have represented a more elite warrior. These are two aspects present in the fluff but lacking in their rules. Additionally one of the main advantages of horsemen are their ability to carry more than an unmounted soldier.

They should be less like fodder on horseback and more like veterans or storm troopers on horseback. They should have a carapace armor option, they should ranged weapons and lances, and they should have mounts that are more than just horses.

Careful, say things like that and people will accuse you of "just wanting things removed".

If they were in the Elite slot I would actually use them. They are currently competing for the best air unit in the game and I just can't bring them unless they are apocalypse.

 plastictrees wrote:
I agree, Rough Riders have always had amazing potential that has never been realised. Would love to see some non-horse mount options and a more flexible unit.

I always wanted to put a unit of them on terror birds. All plumes and decoration and such.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
You'd have a point if I hadn't specifically brought up that I don't even see them get played in fluffy games. As it stands, them having ass rules is only half of it, the other half is that, as far as I can tell, they just aren't a very popular Guard unit in general.

There's a difference between people not liking the models and not liking the idea behind the unit. I love the idea of Rough Riders and I'd love to own some, but I'm not a fan at all of the Attilan Rough Riders, who're the only choices barring Forge World. And even if I were, they're expensive and hard to find. Both those things would obviously have an impact on the popularity of a unit. If they actually looked good, not to mention if they were readily available for purchase instead of forcing people to go to eBay to get them, then they'd likely be seen more often on the tabletop.

So yeah, I'd dispute the notion that Rough Riders aren't popular. It's Attilans who aren't popular.

I'm not sure about that.

They had Tallarn Rough Riders on sale for years and years too. And they were perfectly suitable cavalry sculpts for the time, yet you never really saw them being massively popular either.

RR need a boost rules wise, but I've always been in love with the "Idea" of them. And I have wanted them to be a solid unit since I had first seen in the 1st ed. compendium.

Like bikes they should have a +1 toughness
They should have upgrades for carapace
Something with some flava like a vet sarg (+20 points) gives hit and run, Or he could give 1 of 2 orders, 1 allows run and charge and 1 gives fleet + furious charge

Then make a supplement with RR in the troop slot, a few mounted ICs, warlord traits, and more themed orders.


Also they should take the master of that horrendous truck thing and put it in a fire. then blow up the dies with explosives.

Honestly, I feel the easiest way to save RRs is to make them more like the current Death Korps Death Riders, who are actually pretty strong right now. WS 4, 2 wounds, carapace armour, 6+ FNP and 2 attacks base at a slightly increased price is pretty formidable. Yes, I know the WS comes from them being Death Korps, but honestly an assaulty unit like RRs should really have a higher WS than your average rank and file.

I think if RR had +1 toughness, carapace armor and hit and run standard, they would be pretty damn deadly with those power lances. For, eh, 12-14 ppm, they'd be worth the points.

I for one would love to field some Rough Riders, but as with Ogryns and Ratlings, they don't exactly 'fit' my Regiment (Vostroyan Firstborn).

I dig the concept of them, and having a nice counter-charge unit I can keep back and use would be a nice element to add to my force. I typically only use one to two fast attack options in my army also, so there's typically room for them more often than not.

Sadly, the odds of even a third party making good miniatures that fit with the theme of the Vostroyans on horseback is slim at best.

That, and if I were to try and run Vostroyan Rough Riders, I'd want to have my Rough Riders riding bears, because bear Calvary is awesome.

C'est la vie.

Hoping for new rumors this week, I'm chomping at the bit to see what's coming down the pipe next.

Take ti easy,

-Red__Thirst-

I am in the camp of wanting better RR. I converted 10 from LotR Knights of Dol Amroth and loved how they fit in with my lightly feudal themed army. I hate how the lances only work on the first charge. It's the future, bring some extra charges and spring loaded extendable poles and there you go. I just want it to say only works on the first round of combat instead of just the first charge.

Anyway some anecdotal evidence:
1, Saved the game by routing and chasing down a unit of DE scourges who were haywiring my Leman Russ squads.
2, Again saved the game by charging and killing FateWeaver who was melta beaming again my tank squadrons. (This one was lucky I know)

I agree with BlaxicanX, Delboy and First0f0ne on how to help them.

I think that if they make it into the next codex, they'll just have regular power lances. That means slightly less power (only +1Str, AP3 rather +2str, AP3) but with more longevity (have that profile in every charge, rather than once-per-game).

 BunkerBob wrote:
BoLS came out with a rumor recently that Nork is featured in the kit as the one with the fancy stache on his face. Personally I feel as if this is an insult to everyone's favorite Ogryn.

Really?

 BlaxicanX wrote:
I think that if they make it into the next codex, they'll just have regular power lances. That means slightly less power (only +1Str, AP3 rather +2str, AP3) but with more longevity (have that profile in every charge, rather than once-per-game).

They'll never survive a round to stick around, thats the problem, like real lancers they are only good for the first charge, then they use their other weapons. Of all the things that the current hunting lances do its that Initiative 5 that makes all the difference in the world to making them effective at their job which is to totally eliminate a target unit that is hard to kill (i.e. counter charging assault squads, dev squads, etc.).

I love the Death Rider rules and would love to see them ported. Right now RRs suffer from Sisters of Battle syndrome. No one takes them because their aren't any good or cheap models. Therefore the company does not make more because no one buys them.

If they made nice models with even slightly better rules people would buy them. As for me, i am currently converting some RR (and poor timing is a specialty of mine) from cold ones and Victoria Miniatures rough riders. If they made decent models in a 5 box for riders I would have bought some years ago but i knew i was going to have to convert these guys so ive taken time with them (if only my painting skills were better). So really the current method is inefficient but it does force you to actually do what the hobby has always intended you to do, which is to be creative and convert and do things you would otherwise feel uncomfortable doing .

Heres what ive got so far!

Your link is broken, just letting you know.

Also I don't care for Shrek, he just doesn't make a good body guard because he has plot armor.

I always thought it was funny that they had horse-mounted cavalry in the age of bikes, tanks, and aircraft. Just never made any sense to me. But, I will admit that I'm more in the vein of common sense than in the idea that everything look cool and logic be damned. I guess part of the stems from my time in the Marines and the fact that I don't like science fiction at all.

If they keep them, I hope they do make them viable. That one use lance was BS. And better models would be nice. Maybe make it so you could change out the torso with other models so if I was inclined I could put Cadian torsos on them and have them match the rest of my army.

 BunkerBob wrote:
Your link is broken, just letting you know.

Also I don't care for Shrek, he just doesn't make a good body guard because he has plot armor.

fixed...i think!

Nice conversion work there! I hope it works out for you.

 BunkerBob wrote:
Nice conversion work there! I hope it works out for you.

The only mistake i've made so far is that i accidentally bought 5 of the fat old lizardmen Cold ones. They arent bad (hes the one in the middle) but they change the dynamic of it. I've only kept them because my wife thinks they are cute =P

Still it is not bad at all, I like them to be honest.

Has anyone else been making new lists within the limitations of the rumors that have been floating about? I know some sections will be off but I don't see many setbacks beyond Vets getting hit hard by the nerf bat.

 BunkerBob wrote:
Still it is not bad at all, I like them to be honest.

Has anyone else been making new lists within the limitations of the rumors that have been floating about? I know some sections will be off but I don't see many setbacks beyond Vets getting hit hard by the nerf bat.

I think it may mirror stuff like you see in the ABG or DKOK where you get 2 special weapons instead of 3, probably a point increase

 Red__Thirst wrote:

I dig the concept of them, and having a nice counter-charge unit I can keep back and use would be a nice element to add to my force. I typically only use one to two fast attack options in my army also, so there's typically room for them more often than not.

they do compete with vendettas/valks/hellhounds for space, which makes them less attractive by proxy. But, in answer to the 'nobody uses them even in fluff lists' comment up above, I used 'em loads in my napoleonic-ish Guard. And while they died a lot, they also scared the bejeezus out of my MEQ opponent

All his plan was based around not being charged by those suckas. he started bringing landspeeder typhoons (a nice easy First Blood target) in order to try and snipe them. He'd keep a lot of his firepower hidden in rhinos until they were dead. Definitely created an effective threat bubble

also yes, they die like guardsmen and cost more than twice the points. But they are just soooo fun to play with, I'd love to see them in the new codex, and if the new minis are badass enough, I'll buy them instead of saving up for Victoria Minis versions


Automatically Appended Next Post:
in small battles (>1k) they were such an unexpected thing for Guard to have they put the pressure on and kept me the initiative often

Not that they helped me win much, but that's my generalship instead of the fault of the RR's themselves.