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Hrm, back from work and a tad surprised that we haven't hit the 110k yet, but slowly getting there I suppose.

I'm all for this, I *much* rather give straight to the developer/manufacturer where possible, especially where middle men add no value to the transaction. But because they only get what, 60% of the retail price compared to ~90% of the KS price, there's definitely a lot more room for them to share the margin with us, their investors.

Generally only 40% of the SRP goes to the manufacturer. Distro wants a 60% discount on the SRP so they can sell it for 45-50% off to stores.

Distros also won't pay for shipping.

 Yonan wrote:

 Antenociti wrote:
A question for you - even though this is an extant company with existing products in the marketplace, and the KS Project goal already achieved, you still regard this as a risk? (i'm very interested in this from a purely personal POV ¬_¬ )

edit 2: and thx for the whole reply btw - it was very interesting and useful (seriously)

/bow, I do love a good discussion and your posts have been highly informative and well written so thought I'd contribute, even if we ultimately disagree ; )

The risk is in the quality of the items produced, and I'll use Mantic as an example. Are you aware of the problems they have had with the Kings of War Basilean Man at Arms kits? And their decision to send out some of Dreadball wave 3 as metal, without asking their backers if this was acceptable, when everything was supposed to be in restic? That's the sort of "risk" I'm talking about - but there are many more examples that I'm less familiar with (I've become a bit of a Mantic fan despite these troubles). We don't know what the quality of the casts will be with a Kickstarter. Prior performance from the company is a good indicator, but far from foolproof. By backing a kickstarter, we risk dodgy things like that, whereas if we wait for retail we know exactly what we're getting into.

I'm aware the retail release will be plastic, and for me it's a mixed blessing. I prefer plastic, and I prefer multi part. The kickstarter is resin multi part, the retail is plastic single pose, so you can see my dilemma ; p

p.s. Looking forward to your products arriving in my deadzone package, they looked great ; ) Some in Mars Attacks too, but they're a lot further off.
.

I wasn't aware, no; all the KS Projects i've backed have been for no rewards (until this AvP one).

So for you the issue is less one of a worry about whether you will receive anything, it is whether or not the quality, even the material, that you ultimately end up with, matches that displayed during the KS.

So with AvP we've seen some lovely looking resin pre-production pieces, but will the production pieces match that quality? .... and if we're paying for hand-cast resin we ONLY want hand-cast resin AND at the quality shown....

because... if we DONT get that, there really isnt any method for getting ones money back... the best we could do is.. well, "offer feedback" on their next KS project.

OK, yup, I get that.

I'd considered "yeah it was late" but not a "its a different material"... I can see how that would happen though (from the manufacturers end). cheers for that.

(fwiw any problems with any of our stuff just come straight to us for replacements or missing parts etc.... kinda expecting that wont be a problem... but there were 131,000 items cast for deadzone by us... bound to be a few "uglies" that snuck through somewhere.)

Would it be correct to assume that Prodos also have to pay some kind of licence fee to Fox for using their stuff?

 Souleater wrote:
Would it be correct to assume that Prodos also have to pay some kind of licence fee to Fox for using their stuff?

Generally yes, very few people grant a license for free. Usually its percentage based, with the possibility of a set amount each year that must be paid regardless of anything else. I doubt we'll ever hear an official word on what their agreement is though.

 Antenociti wrote:
Talkies

My pleasure, you have the argument down. We've had big discussions about it here. Some people say "people will cry no matter what the company does" which is true to an extent... this is the internet afterall, but to paraphrase the Ninentdo guy "A delayed model is good eventually, a bad model is bad forever." So yeah, delays are not great but acceptable. Bad production of minis, and other shenanigans such as the metal issue, and many more other potential problems are not acceptable and not things you face as a retail customer.

The Dreamforge KS is looking to end up around a year late for the final wave, and while we're disappointed about that in the KS thread, you'd be surprised at how positive we all are. Mark, the creator has been with us the entire way, saying what the delays are, why they are and so forth, and he's delivered ridiculously awesome minis to us, exact translations of the renders we were shown. Just another KS example that hopefully gives more perspective on the issues.

131K, damn... busy busy! I'll keep it in mind, thanks ; )

 Souleater wrote:
Would it be correct to assume that Prodos also have to pay some kind of licence fee to Fox for using their stuff?

for certain.

i'd love to know how much; I know of other license fees currently in production @ $10,000 a year plus a retail percentage on all sales.

but, no real clue for this one sorry.

I'd love to know who approached who to make this happen.

Antenociti- From what I can tell, the models shown in the size comparison photo are close to what the actual models for this campaign will be- hand cast resin, not mass produced models.

I'm pledging for this partly because I'm not totally convinced they'll be selling these models later- they probably will be, and probably at a similar price, but I want to make this happen so I'm willing to go in just for some add-ons now.

I'm a little less sure about people who are in it for the actual board game, rather than wargaming models... it does seem that the board game will be available later with mass produced plastics, and I feel like a lot of the sweet add-on models (which is all I'm here for) might not get rules in the board game, or just get shoe-horned in. It would be hard to make all of that work well / be balanced together, see Sedition Wars for reference...

So, I'm all about pledging for some models, but the board game I'm a little less sure about. Likewise, this company has shown that they can produce good models, and have a wargame rules framework in place, but the board game rules are a big unknown at this point.

Supposedly a gameplay video is coming, though! But as I'm just here for models that part doesn't matter too much to me just a point to consider.

Also, I really wish they'd make a package discount for people wanting multiple PredAliens! Maybe a pack of 3 or 5/6 with a slight discount? Would be great for people like me and maybe tempt more folks in who just want some wargaming models as add-ons.

looks like it's slowing down now but it's still moving.. I keep looking at the total thinking £107k is lower than I thought it would be by now, but then that's actually like $175k so it's actually better than I thought

The hellhounds heads look cool .. I think they need to post a couple of stretch goals at a time instead of just 1

 RiTides wrote:
I'm pledging for this partly because I'm not totally convinced they'll be selling these models later- they probably will be, and probably at a similar price, but I want to make this happen so I'm willing to go in just for some add-ons now.

But according to the KS page, the board game is merely a portal for a larger-scale wargame where you can field an entire battalion, hive, etc., supposedly up to 100 models per side. Would be kinda strange for them not to offer any other models to play the game with.

100's of models at those prices? Shudder. I mean its resin, they're not exactly gouging, but I personally can't afford to make one let alone 2-3 resin armies

 Sidstyler wrote:

 RiTides wrote:
I'm pledging for this partly because I'm not totally convinced they'll be selling these models later- they probably will be, and probably at a similar price, but I want to make this happen so I'm willing to go in just for some add-ons now.

But according to the KS page, the board game is merely a portal for a larger-scale wargame where you can field an entire battalion, hive, etc., supposedly up to 100 models per side. Would be kinda strange for them not to offer any other models to play the game with.

I think the emphasis is more on *these* models, since they're planning on selling single piece plastic ones down the line which won't offer the posability of these multi part resin ones. A hobbyist would much rather the variety of multi pose, I know I really don't like having clone armies.

I don't see me ever playing the huge wargame version. I'm sure it will be fun and cool to have a big army, but I just don't have the time to build giant armies anymore. So I'm hoping there will be a more skirmish level version too.

110k seems imminent.
I look forward to the next stretch, I want some sentry guns.

 Necros wrote:
I don't see me ever playing the huge wargame version. I'm sure it will be fun and cool to have a big army, but I just don't have the time to build giant armies anymore. So I'm hoping there will be a more skirmish level version too.

Agreed. If I wanted that in a popular sci fi license I'd get a bunch of Starship Troopers. Large scale battles don't really seem to fit this.

Yes right, dark cramped spaces and aliens coming out of the god-damned walls is where it's at!

next goal please!

Indeed, 110k has been reached, wahey, give us sentries please!

We'll see what comes next.

Oh and regarding the table top game, the only thing Colonial Marines need is something oft mentioned in the comics..

 RiTides wrote:
I think I was mistaken about the first aliens sculpts we've seen being traditionally sculpted, since they showed these renders earlier and they look decidedly digital...

Nah the greens were posted on Dakka not too long before Prodos posted this thread.

 Manchu wrote:

 RiTides wrote:
I think I was mistaken about the first aliens sculpts we've seen being traditionally sculpted, since they showed these renders earlier and they look decidedly digital...

Nah the greens were posted on Dakka not too long before Prodos posted this thread.

I saw that, too... but aren't these renders?

It's possible that the originals where hand sculpted then scanned and finished off digitally or they where hand sculpted but not used and redone digitally - so both points of view coud be correct

I like the look of the £120k stretch goal, the Berzerker Predator.

That's a Predator's "Super" Predator isn't it? If so they are even taller than a regular predator!

Update 5 - http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/513277403/alien-vs-predator-the-miniatures-game/posts/656996

Add-on Unlocked

Automatically Appended Next Post:
That's one ugly melon-fether by the way..

Yes, I was impressed about how they managed to make it uglier than a regular predator

Bring on the sentry guns!

Free Berserker Pred? SIGN ME UP!!! I hope it's got a headswap option to give it unmasked and Mr. Black's mask, because that would be just too cool.

I want to see what we get from the Weyland-Yutani stretch goals.
I'm hoping for Bishop and Burke. Maybe some W-Y Combat Androids, or civillian staff.