Heresy/30k - News & Rumours - Plastic Land Raider Proteus - Roadmap Pg202

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**Albertorius**

I would say there seems to be some stuff cleary in focus and some other clearly out of it, there...

**beast_gts**

Rumour update from Faeit 212 (so add

)

"Age of Darkness - The Horus Heresy" Launch Box:
As known, the Box will have the following content:
- 40 MkVI Marines
- 10 Cataphract Terminators
- 1 Spartan
- 1 Contemptor Dreadnought
- 1 Imperial Fist Castellan
- 1 Sons of Horus / Trainer Praetor
- "Age of Darkness" Rulebook
- "Horus Heresy" Intro Booklet
- "Battle for Heta-Gladius" Campaign Booklet
- Other Stuff for new Players

Story of the Box is about the Battle for Heta-Gladius, when the SoH
assaulted a small but important Imperial Garrison manned by Imperial Fists,
Blood Angels and the Imperial Army.

This Lunch Box will few months later followed by three Sets as we know from
40k and AoS.

Small Set:
- 10 MkVI Marines

Medium Set:
- 20 MkVI Marines
- 5 Terminators (don't know if Cataphracts or Tartaros)
- 1 Contemptor Dreadnought (the Monopose one)
- 2 Characters

Large Set:
- 30 MkVI Marines
- 10 Terminators (don't know if Cataphracts or Tartaros)
- 1 Contemptor Dreadnought (the Monopose one)
- 2 Characters

Age of Darkness Rulebook:
Main Rules for Games Workshops new main System
- Core Rules are technical 7th Edition 40k
- Units and formations are like in 8th and 9th Edition

Black Books:
First "Warzone" Book
- Featuring the Legions of Imperial Fists and Blood Angels for loyalists
and SoH and World Eaters for traitors, also Imperial Army
- Includes content before the Traitors entered the sol system

Age of Darkness Horus Heresy Compendium
"Codex-like" Book for the Age of Darkness
- Over 200 Sites
- Summary for most of the FW Rules Content after the old Books will get
replaced by new Warzone Books
- Rules for all 18 Space Marine Legions
- Mechanicus
- Imperial Army and Auxilia

GW Internal:
There will be some internal changes at Nottingham
- Staff from the FW Team (which were working on HH) switched already to the
GW Main Studio
- Work on the new Age of Darkness Rulebook began before this
- White Dwarf Team will grow for more HH featuring content

Citadel:
New Spray Range is coming for easier painting of Space Marine Legions

**Dysartes**

I quite like the idea of a HH lunch box, so long as it is well-insulated.

And I hope the Trainer Praetor has nice footwear...

**JWBS**

chaos0xomega wrote:

I'm 99% sure the composite is incorrect. The minis don't fully scale with eachother across photos. The termies with the Spartan in the back right, for example, are smaller than the regular marines in the foreground image in a way that doesn't make sense even within the context of perspective. I also don't know that it makes sense for their to be two separate piles of dice there (one in the foreground, the other in back). Theres also very slight differences in camera angle of the product photos if you look carefully (look at the dice in the two photos, they are not photographed at the same angle - this isn't an issue with whoever photographed the product packaging in the warehouse or whatever, this is an issue with the product photography itself that was done in the studio, indicating these photos do not belong to the same shot.

I'm gonna blow your mind - there are multiple starting boxes for Heresy in the same vein as the Recruit/Elite/Commander edition for 40k and the Warrior/Harbinger/Extremis set for Age of Sigmar. What you're seeing there are photos from at least two of those boxes.

I'm not buying it, for starters I think the photos line up very well. Secondly, the two forces have to somewhat attempt to balance. Something has to go in that space, and it has to be something decently hefty, otherwise it's like 30 marines + a Contemptor vs 10 marines + 5 termies or thereabouts. The LR is the thing that balances out the two forces (maybe tips the balance in favour of the IF? idk I'm not a player). It's just too perfect, circumstantially at least.

**Irbis**

Kanluwen wrote:
Something I've been wondering about is that maybe there will be something to the rumor of the Horus Heresy range potentially going mainstream.

There was an express callout of Cybernetica assets in Octarius book I. Thanatars, Domitars, and Vorax were all explicitly mentioned as being "some of the rare examples" being utilized by the Mechanicus forces.

Yeah, and that's why Cyraxus book that was supposed to be out like a decade ago gave you rules to use them in 40K--

Oh wait

Kanluwen wrote:
It's worth noting that Prospero and Calth were both board games. They had a ton of models certainly, but they also were considered board games first and foremost...and Prospero lasted a lot longer than Calth did because of the Custodes+Sisters of Silence plus the two named characters.

Wrong. They were kinda pretending to be board games, but if they were really BG, they would include ETB minis instead of full kits and no 40K rules. GW even put them on 40K store, not boxed game section and updated 40K SM rules specifically for both sets. Also, both lasted about a year, and people were buying both like crazy because even if you were to bin Custodes/Sisters (instead of selling them to both HH and 40K players where they were new hotness then) the discount was vastly better than on anything GW released in last four years (since Tooth and Claw basically)...

**jojo_monkey_boy**

chaos0xomega wrote:
I'm 99% sure the composite is incorrect. The minis don't fully scale with eachother across photos. The termies with the Spartan in the back right, for example, are smaller than the regular marines in the foreground image in a way that doesn't make sense even within the context of perspective.

The cataphractii would likely be the same height or smaller than the MK6, who are at the "new old marine scale," visible in the chaos space marine and death guard kit.

**JWBS**

Would absolutely suck balls if they Primarised the firstborn HH marines but not the terminators. Seems likely though.

**jojo_monkey_boy**

The cataphractii kit is probably too new for them to justify redesigning. Which will lead to the silly situation described. In a similar vein, I saw a photo someone posted of the new imperial fist characters next to a plastic tartaros terminator. They made it look like a dwarf.

What an embarrassment of design standards.

**JWBS**

It's always been there to some extent though, kind of hard to avoid when a new standard comes in but you have reasons to keep the old standard still relevant. Personally I hope they at least redo the terminators at some point down the line even if it's a while off.

**beast_gts**

jojo_monkey_boy wrote:
The cataphractii kit is probably too new for them to justify redesigning.

If they have redone the Contemptor kit (which is the same age) they might redo the terminators.

**Gert**

Irbis wrote:

Wrong. They were kinda pretending to be board games, but if they were really BG, they would include ETB minis instead of full kits and no 40K rules. GW even put them on 40K store, not boxed game section and updated 40K SM rules specifically for both sets. Also, both lasted about a year, and people were buying both like crazy because even if you were to bin Custodes/Sisters (instead of selling them to both HH and 40K players where they were new hotness then) the discount was vastly better than on anything GW released in last four years (since Tooth and Claw basically)...

They were sold as board games until someone realised nobody was buying BaC for the board game and like 3 months later FW put out the army bundles. There were WD articles adding missions to the board games and (at least in my experience) it was pushed as such by GW staffers who were not quite clued into the fact that nobody cared about the game.
The rules for Cataphractii, Tartaros, Contemptor, and the Talons units were added because GW was running on "Models = Rules" and if those models got 40k rules then they could sell them to the 40k crowd as well as the HH one.
BaC wasn't sold as a HH "starter set" until just before Prospero came out and then both were dropped because all of the models usable in 40k got separate releases at the tail end of 7th.

The thing I'm confused about with that rumour is the bit about "7th Ed Core with 8th Ed Datasheets". How does that even work? USR's are pretty Core for the AoD ruleset so it can't be them going away, same with Hull Points for Vehicles, the damage table, and some of the stuff for unit statlines like WS/BS.
I'm unsure how it can be both and not one or the other.

**jojo_monkey_boy**

beast_gts wrote:
jojo_monkey_boy wrote:
The cataphractii kit is probably too new for them to justify redesigning.
If they have redone the Contemptor kit (which is the same age) they might redo the terminators.

People should just go out and buy some Tortuga 3rd party cataphractii. That's what I did and they're utterly fantastic. The guy is working on tartaros right now.

**JWBS**

Looks like I'm gonna be owning like 40 of these official ones in the next year or so, so it kinda sucks either way for me. Hopefully there will be a market for them sold separately (well obviously there will, hopefully it's not too crowded and it's relatively easy to offload them).

**chaos0xomega**

JWBS wrote:
chaos0xomega wrote:

I'm 99% sure the composite is incorrect. The minis don't fully scale with eachother across photos. The termies with the Spartan in the back right, for example, are smaller than the regular marines in the foreground image in a way that doesn't make sense even within the context of perspective. I also don't know that it makes sense for their to be two separate piles of dice there (one in the foreground, the other in back). Theres also very slight differences in camera angle of the product photos if you look carefully (look at the dice in the two photos, they are not photographed at the same angle - this isn't an issue with whoever photographed the product packaging in the warehouse or whatever, this is an issue with the product photography itself that was done in the studio, indicating these photos do not belong to the same shot.

I'm gonna blow your mind - there are multiple starting boxes for Heresy in the same vein as the Recruit/Elite/Commander edition for 40k and the Warrior/Harbinger/Extremis set for Age of Sigmar. What you're seeing there are photos from at least two of those boxes.

I'm not buying it, for starters I think the photos line up very well. Secondly, the two forces have to somewhat attempt to balance. Something has to go in that space, and it has to be something decently hefty, otherwise it's like 30 marines + a Contemptor vs 10 marines + 5 termies or thereabouts. The LR is the thing that balances out the two forces (maybe tips the balance in favour of the IF? idk I'm not a player). It's just too perfect, circumstantially at least.

You don't have to buy it, we already know, definitively, that I'm correct. Observe:

These are the original images. Note how the top of the two in the back right corner there is a Spartan, but there are no dice near it. Now note how there are dice in the lower of the two images (which is the same as the one used in the composite, the bottom portion of it is just cut off). These two images cannot both be from the same source/product photograph, because the dice would otherwise be present in both photographs.

Also, thats not a Land Raider, its a Spartan Assault Tank. In 40k terms its an almost 500 pt lord of war with 8 lascannons, 2 heavy bolters, and a transport capacity of 25 tac. marines. It more than pushes the advantage into the IFists favor as its more than capable of one-shotting the contemptor off the table and can realistically destroy a squad of marines in a single turn. Thats before you account for the apparent 10 terminators and im guessing 10 power armored marines that the composite would you lead to believe that the IF side comes with.

**JWBS**

Observe; You're saying that the launch box won't contain a Spartan then?

Observe; I'll bet you £20 that the launch box contains a Spartan, and at least 40 marines, and a Contemptor and two characters (number of Cataphract indeterminate). Happy to make it £50 but that might be offputting which is why I offer 20 bet instead.

/Edit - 35-40 marines (since only 35 are shown), 2+ characters (since there could theoretically be more), and a dread, and the big tank, and 5 (or more) terminators.

**RazorEdge**

chaos0xomega wrote:
JWBS wrote:
chaos0xomega wrote:

I'm 99% sure the composite is incorrect. The minis don't fully scale with eachother across photos. The termies with the Spartan in the back right, for example, are smaller than the regular marines in the foreground image in a way that doesn't make sense even within the context of perspective. I also don't know that it makes sense for their to be two separate piles of dice there (one in the foreground, the other in back). Theres also very slight differences in camera angle of the product photos if you look carefully (look at the dice in the two photos, they are not photographed at the same angle - this isn't an issue with whoever photographed the product packaging in the warehouse or whatever, this is an issue with the product photography itself that was done in the studio, indicating these photos do not belong to the same shot.

I'm gonna blow your mind - there are multiple starting boxes for Heresy in the same vein as the Recruit/Elite/Commander edition for 40k and the Warrior/Harbinger/Extremis set for Age of Sigmar. What you're seeing there are photos from at least two of those boxes.

I'm not buying it, for starters I think the photos line up very well. Secondly, the two forces have to somewhat attempt to balance. Something has to go in that space, and it has to be something decently hefty, otherwise it's like 30 marines + a Contemptor vs 10 marines + 5 termies or thereabouts. The LR is the thing that balances out the two forces (maybe tips the balance in favour of the IF? idk I'm not a player). It's just too perfect, circumstantially at least.

You don't have to buy it, we already know, definitively, that I'm correct. Observe:

These are the original images. Note how the top of the two in the back right corner there is a Spartan, but there are no dice near it. Now note how there are dice in the lower of the two images (which is the same as the one used in the composite, the bottom portion of it is just cut off). These two images cannot both be from the same source/product photograph, because the dice would otherwise be present in both photographs.

Also, thats not a Land Raider, its a Spartan Assault Tank. In 40k terms its an almost 500 pt lord of war with 8 lascannons, 2 heavy bolters, and a transport capacity of 25 tac. marines. It more than pushes the advantage into the IFists favor as its more than capable of one-shotting the contemptor off the table and can realistically destroy a squad of marines in a single turn. Thats before you account for the apparent 10 terminators and im guessing 10 power armored marines that the composite would you lead to believe that the IF side comes with.

It's logical there can't be Dices on the large Screen, because whey are too far right to be on it. Look on both screens what you can see of the Spartan...

**JWBS**

Plus the second image he has posted there as proof is clearly of the composite anyway. It's not like that is a pair of original undoctored images. Doesn't prove anything really.

/Edit - idk. It's just a weird image. idk what it shows tbh.

**chaos0xomega**

There wouldn't be two separate piles of dice in the same image, thats not how GW does its product photography. Unfortunately a number of the original images have been pulled down from various sources it seems, as there were additional photos that showed an extended version of the larger image without the dice next to the spartan.

**JWBS**

Yeah. That one I've cropped above is from the composite, but it's different from the one you've shown, so it's like they've made the composite with a different image from the original, or cropped a different one to include in the composite (which doesn't make any sense as the one in the composite shows more than the one you posted). Fundamentally though, you're saying we won't get this megabox, and the tank will be part of a separate release (megabox may include even less??), if I read you right? No sorry, I'll put money on that thesis not being "definitively correct".

**chaos0xomega**

The thesis is that the composite is made up of imagery taken from 2 or more box sets, rather than just all being photos from the same box in the same way that there are 3 separate starter boxes for 40k/AoS, plus the limited time launch box. That doesn't mean that we won't get some/all of this in one box (the fact of the matter is that we know that the Spartan is contained in a box with at least some of this, that much is clear from the original non-composite imagery, so why you would think I'm arguing that it will be a separate release is beyond me), just that the image we are seeing in the composite is inaccurate.

Note that the Faeit rumor posted above aligns with this sentiment, the Contemptor image used in the composite I'm betting is from a separate product from the main image used in the composite - that doesn't mean that there isn't a contemptor in that main product, just that its not set up the way its shown in the composite.

**JWBS**

chaos0xomega wrote:
(the fact of the matter is that we know that the Spartan is contained in a box with at least some of this, that much is clear from the original non-composite imagery, so why you would think I'm arguing that it will be a separate release is beyond me)

Because you're also saying this

The thesis is that the composite is made up of imagery taken from 2 or more box sets

I wasn't asking if you think the tank is separate from everything, I was asking if you think it will be separate from the majority of this image, which is kinda what you were saying was it not? "This composite is made up from more than one release. Look here, the tank looks like it's not meant to be there". How else am I supposed to take that, if not "The tank is separate"?

**chaos0xomega**

well, I mean if you looked at the original source imagery instead of the composite you would see that there is an image of the spartan contained in a box with at least 5 terminators and ~20 or so tactical marines, etc. so I would have assumed you would understand that the Spartan was definitively included in a bundled product just based on that.

The point of calling out the Spartan specifically is that the Spartan with the dice used in the composite is not the same as the Spartan without the dice used in the original source image, ergo they come from two different photographs (or at the very least are two separate spartans contained within the same image rather than the same one).

**JWBS**

If you want to clarify for me - what do you think will not be included in the megabox? If not the tank (which is the impression you gave by pulling up that other image as proof...), then what?
/Edit - oh I see you've already replied. Okay, so what you're saying is that this may well be the contents, but the composite, despite possibly being a picture the entire contents of one release, is made up of pictures of two different releases? Okay, that just seems to be a bizarre conclusion to me, but whatever. I still say that's wrong too.

**jojo_monkey_boy**

chaos0xomega wrote:
The point of calling out the Spartan specifically is that the Spartan with the dice used in the composite is not the same as the Spartan without the dice used in the original source image, ergo they come from two different photographs (or at the very least are two separate spartans contained within the same image rather than the same one).

If I'm reading this right, your argument is that there are two images of the spartan which are both taken from the exact same vantage/perpective but one does not have dice and that this alleged second image not containing the dice which proves your position has disappeared from the internet, despite all of the other leak photos still being around. That this all shows that the composite image is doctored?

Wouldn't the more obvious answer be that the person who made the composite image just cropped out the dice because it was extraneous information that pushed the width of the composite photo past the bounds of the other included photos?

**Dudeface**

Follow up rumours:

Spoiler:

https://natfka.blogspot.com/2021/11/rumors-additional-horus-heresy-details.html?m=1

The guy who brought us the big rumour leak said these are about right, as has valrak, atia and some others. So looks like some less salt needs to be consumed.

**JWBS**

Any word on what he thinks of ChaosOmega's theory on the composite image??

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ooh, £180 on the main box. That's pretty steep, higher than DU and AT princeps edition right? (still seems okay to me but possibly a new record for box price?) Actually I see the biggest box is £240, hmm that is actually quite steep, makes me wonder how many I actually want to buy. Also, the only difference between the £180 box and the £100 box is that the rulebook has been downgraded from "Large softcover" to "Small softcover",(and also no FW catalogue) that doesn't seem to cover an £80 (+80%) price differential does it?

**Theophony**

JWBS wrote:
Any word on what he thinks of ChaosOmega's theory on the composite image??

Automatically Appended Next Post:
OOh, £180 on the main box. That's pretty steep, higher than DU and AT princeps edition right? (still seems okay to me but possibly a new record for box price?)

No, the big box he is referring to in the 1st rumor is 240 GBP, comes with what is on the combined image (40 marines, 10 terminators, 2 heroes, Contemptor and the Spartan along with the rulebook) The 180GBP one does not have the Spartan in it, at least according to that rumor and I think only has 30 marines. The "Good Thing" looks like the other smaller battleforces will be available for longer period of time.

A real time (Not GW) currency exchange puts 240 GBP at roughly $327. That's a BIG box.

**JWBS**

Yeah I see, I was getting a bit confused, didn't realise I had to cross reference this new list with the old list, that explains the price differentials a lot better.

**Gert**

Sorry but the small box having 10 Marines and a small rulebook for £40 sounds like nonsense.
AoS Warrior edition is £36.50 for 18 minis plus the usual starter gubbins and the 40k Recruit edition is the same for 20 minis plus starter gubbins.
Even if HH was changed to have Patrol style detachments you don't even get enough to do a basic 1v1.
The biggest starter sets are still only £105 for 32 minis for 40k, 27 for AoS, and then terrain on top of that. Pelenor is £95 for 84 minis plus rules and gubbins. For this HH big box, we're talking double the cost of BaC for 5 more minis than were in BaC.
Why suddenly jump off a cliff price-wise for starter sets when the other main ranges have been consistent?

**JWBS**

This new list makes me think, not next Summer for this release, but way earlier? (I had originally thought xmas, but when we didn't see it in the reveal I thought prolly next Summer, but all these leaks at once kinda say it's coming reasonably soon, like in the next 3-6 months? How far ahead have Valrak's other confirmed rumours been? And the other unknown guy with the big batch of confirmed rumours also, they were proven almost 100% correct within a couple of months).