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Whatever "whiteboard" scenarios you might hear from DiDio, the New 52 Continuity is a work in progress. You have to remember, continuity is just a marketing device. It's there to get you to invest. But it's a double edged sword: too much continuity and there's no room for new, exciting products. Think of it as IP management. Even Morrison behaves this way. He strung everybody along with Dr. Hurt on purpose, to keep selling books. Snyder is doing the same thing. Obviously, neither of them are in it just to sell books so I expect we'll see an eventual tie-in with RIP. Whether that will be "in-continuity" with the RIP storyline or not is impossible to tell. All we know is that there's a three-way allusion going on here revolving around the anti-Batman concept.


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As for speculation:

My favorite run on FF was Mark Waid's. Doom was featured heavily and he was quite evil. In fact he was so evil people actually complained that Doom shouldn't be portrayed like that. That he was more of "saturday morning cartoon" villian not a murderer.

Also, I like The Watchmen and I like comic books too Manchu. No matter what you say that will always be true.

Oh I like The Watchmen myself, at least in the sense that I recognize how fething good it is. I just don't like Alan Moore's take on superheroes.

I have been doing all this Fantastic Four research in prep for reading Hickman's Fantastic Four and then his FF (er, Future Foundation) so ... here's hoping that it's worth it.

I haven't read much FF in my day but Mark Waid made me really care about what was going and was a page turner so maybe check that one out if you just want a good read.

I don't want to go over the whole Watchmen thing again but I sometimes get this sense that you think there a certain way comics are "supposed" to be and I reject that notion. The great thing about comics is they can literally be about anything and in any style or tone.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:The great thing about comics is they can literally be about anything and in any style or tone.

That where you and I agree and you and Alan Moore disagree.

Manchu wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:The great thing about comics is they can literally be about anything and in any style or tone.

That where you and I agree and you and Alan Moore disagree.

Did Alan Moore not write about something? It would actually be a pretty astounding feat if he didn't.

Yeah, he did. The premise was "nobody else is doing it right." The premise is still "no one has done it right since."

That's not his premise. It's one others may have put on his work. Anyways, I don't know if you like Morrison's take on Doom and the FF or not but from your description I don't. Try Waid's because it sounds like the anti-Morrison version for better or worse.

I don't like Morrison's portrayal of Doom -- hence saying "it's a pity" that Morrison, an otherwise insightful writer, treats Doom this way. By your description, I wouldn't say Waid's Doom is the opposite. Just more "villains should be realistically and thoroughly evil" which IMO has nothing to do with Doctor Doom.


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KamikazeCanuck wrote:That's not his premise. It's one others may have put on his work.

Most recently, on Before Watchmen:

I would have thought, from a DC perspective, that’s it’s a lose-lose perspective, unless they did something better or as good as 'Watchmen.' But realistically, that’s not going to happen, otherwise it would have happened before.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=36996

I think Moore, unusually, is pretty reasonable in that article. The quote I would take away was how The Watchmen was supposed to be an alternative to the endless soap-opera comics.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:I haven't read much FF in my day but Mark Waid made me really care about what was going and was a page turner so maybe check that one out if you just want a good read.

I don't want to go over the whole Watchmen thing again but I sometimes get this sense that you think there a certain way comics are "supposed" to be and I reject that notion. The great thing about comics is they can literally be about anything and in any style or tone.

I hated his take on Doom - I felt it was way out of character, way over the top and was done mostly for cheap thrills/shock value/etc.

I'm glad to report that the more recent take on Doom is much more in character and, more importantly, characterful.

I don't like the idea that Doom could be derided by Sue into stoping his evilness.

So, The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen Century 2009.

Am I correct in identifying William Hartnell and Matt Smith as two Doctor Whos in it?

Yes, I'm sure of it.

I've only read the first two trades and I saw one that took place in the 60s but I wasn't aware there was more than that.


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@Anung
Watched the first 2 episodes of Ultimate Spider-Man. It's pretty good actually. Surprised you didn't like it. It's pretty funny IMO.

There are the first two series which have been collected as graphic novels.

The next series is the Century series and has issues 1910, 1969 and 2009.

The latest one is just out now.

Amazon is still showing it for pre-order but I ordered it some time ago and got my copy on the 21st.

The solstice! Hmm, could be some magic connection there.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:@Anung
Watched the first 2 episodes of Ultimate Spider-Man. It's pretty good actually. Surprised you didn't like it. It's pretty funny IMO.

I've seen 8 episodes so far and I just can't stand it. The concept of the story itself is pretty solid (S.H.I.E.L.D. training, other young heroes, Spidey fightning other villians) but the execution is terrible. There are these "Round One, FIGHT!" moments, like they're trying to reproduce the Scott Pilgrim videogame feeling, but with nothing else to back it up. And all those huge comic-effects, little Spider-Man angel and devil on his shoulders, his talking to the camera. Those are not bad choices for a cartoon, but complety out of the blue for Spidey while at the same time taking away the usual Spidey-humor.

Peter is a clumsy idiot. I know he's a bit of a dork, but not like that. There's a real missed opportunity here with him developing a relationship with Fury (something they talked about in the comics) but instead he rather has daydreams about jetpacks.

The team is stupid. Making Iron Fist and Luke Cage teenagers totally rewrites their backstory, but the way the show works, it doesn't seem like we're getting them to know them any better. And while they're all kinda different, it basicaly comes down to "everybody is good at punching things". I also hate Nova.

What bothers me most was how excited I was about this show. With the inclusion of Agent Coulson they basically said "yes, this is the Marvel movieverse" which was a fantastic opportunity for world bulding and then they make it this stupid, over-the-top, Deadpool-ish chaos that manage to ruin several of my favourite Marvel characters and things in a row (the Iron Spider armor, Luke Cage and Venom. Twice.)

Well I wasn't sure what kind of tone it would be. I thought it would be more like Ultimate Spider-Man obviously but it's just for kids. It's a comedic team show. I like Luke Cage, Iron Fist and Nova so it's just nice to see them in something.
(but yes, that's the worst rendition of Venom ever).

I had the same thought about Deadpool actually. This is what a kids cartoon about Deadpool would be like but that's why I figured you like it.

New 52 TPBs

Catwoman was... pretty good actually. I miss the relationship she had with Batman while Dini was writing it, but this new (?) take on the character was pretty cool.
Sure, you could complain about blatant sexism and the "rape of Batman" but that didn't bother me. Maybe it just means that I'm not very sensitive to this kind of thing.

Aquaman was surprisingly awesome. I loved how they just keep on dissing Aquaman for being Aquaman. "You can't eat fish, you talk to them."

New Catwoman is one of my fave lines, although to be fair their is barely anything with a Batman stamp I haven't been enjoying.

Hell even Voodoo has been managing to turn itself around the past few issues, that I'm back up to 'not sure, keep reading' at the mo.

The only comic that is still bugging me is Red Hood, I want it to be awesome and there have been moments I've really liked, but still bizarre and annoying things keep happening that keep making me doubt the whole set up of the comic.

I read the first volume of Hickman's Fantastic Four this past weekend. In the first arc, Reed Richards stumbles across a interdimensional fraternity of other versions of himself who have banded together in order to "solve everything." This is a truly awesome story in every sense one could ask for, with its simultaneous bold, flashy sci-fi and human warmth. It's certainly going to be in a "Greatest of" collection of Fantastic Four stories someday, right alongside of John Byrne's definitive work on the title. The other story in this volume, however, is pretty much forgettable -- and the art, particularly the faces, is frustratingly bad.

As dated as a lot of it truly is, I always go back to Stan and Jack's 1-100 run when I feel the need for some good ol' FF fun.

They told some neat stories. "This Man, This Monster" is probably the best. But from what I've read, the FF really lived up to their potential under John Byrne. For example, he made Invisible Woman a powerful, important character; introduced the crazy Nathaniel Richards arc, and replaced Thing with She Hulk. "Terror In Tiny Town" seems to me to be the major touchstone moment regarding the characters' identities, rivaling even the first issue. In "Solve Everything," Hickman captures both the invincible imagination of Stan Lee and the vivaciousness of John Byrne, and like his storied predecessors, Hickman employs these far flung adventures to ultimately reinforce the down-to-earth concept of family as the central pillar of this title. It's a superb tale indeed. Regarding what follows, I can only hope it will pay off in volume 2.

How 'bout we use spoiler tags , especially when it's quite obvious that people haven't gotten that far in a story yet yes ?

Reds8n

Manchu wrote:They told some neat stories. "This Man, This Monster" is probably the best. But from what I've read, the FF really lived up to their potential under John Byrne. For example, he made Invisible Woman a powerful, important character; introduced the crazy Nathaniel Richards arc, and replaced Thing with She Hulk. "Terror In Tiny Town" seems to me to be the major touchstone moment regarding the characters' identities, rivaling even the first issue. In "Solve Everything," Hickman captures both the invincible imagination of Stan Lee and the vivaciousness of John Byrne, and like his storied predecessors, Hickman employs these far flung adventures to ultimately reinforce the down-to-earth concept of family as the central pillar of this title. It's a superb tale indeed. Regarding what follows, I can only hope it will pay off in volume 2.

That is a VERY good point, and if there was a way to get all of Byrne's work collected and in color, I'd be all over it!

Actually, is there such a way now?

I was REALLY excited for his Danger Unlimited creator owned work (very much his version of the FF), but that only lasted for 4 issues, I think.

I think there were a series of "Visionaries" paperbacks you could get but that's been a while ago. I have the Walt Simonson Thor volumes.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:


How 'bout we use spoiler tags , especially when it's quite obvious that people haven't gotten that far in a story yet yes ?

Reds8n

Spoiler:

It must be shortly after that that Reed learns some of the Reeds are evil and has to form an Anti-Reed commitee chaired by Doom.

Sorry, didn't really seem like a spoiler actually....more like something you'd read on the back of a TPB.

Manchu wrote:I think there were a series of "Visionaries" paperbacks you could get but that's been a while ago. I have the Walt Simonson Thor volumes.

But they are in B&W, right?

I need color!!!

My Thor books are all in color.

I'd love to pick up a complete Simonson run of Thor in color - do you have a link to the books on, say, Amazon?

Here's volume the first:

http://www.amazon.com/Thor-Visionaries-Walter-Simonson-Vol/dp/0785131892/ref=sr_1_9?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1340743444&sr=1-9&keywords=marvel+visionaries+walt+simonson