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The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
The DC relaunch finally reached Germany. Detective Comics is okay, though the new status quo is, well, old. Batman is hunted by the police again, how is this interesting? We've seen it way too often.
Action Comics was really cool and I'd like to read more with the young Superman. Unfortunatly it comes in olny together with Supergril, which I am not even remotly interested in. As a supporting character in JLU or Superman TAS, okay. But in her stand alone series? Not really.
I also gave in and bought the Brand New Day TPB. It has the first 9 nine issues of the relaunch. Should be enough to decide if I like it or not.
All-Star Western
Blue Beetle
Deathstroke
Fury of Firestorm
The tites I'm keeping:
Action Comics
Aquaman
Batgirl
Batman
Batman & Robin
Batwoman
Birds of Prey
Catwoman
Dark Knight
Detective Comics
Justice League
Nightwing
Red Hood & the Outlaws
Superboy
Supergirl
Superman
Teen Titans
Voltron
Voltron Year One
World's Finest
KamikazeCanuck wrote:The OMD thing controversy is a whole other thing. There's always been many Spidey-Titles (In fact I think there's less now: No Spectacular, Sensational or Web-of-Spider-man). Yes, he's also an Avenger now but that's ok with me. Avengers is better for it I think.
@Anung. I'm sure Miles will be fine. He just got started. He's only been on like two adventures! Can't kill him now.
The ultimate universe is generally treated with much more of an axe than 616. If sales dipped or there was significant public outcry about something they wouldn't have much of a problem retiring the character. They've done it numerous times already with other lines.
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Do you remember that time that thing happened?
This is a bad thread and you should all feel bad
KamikazeCanuck wrote:The OMD thing controversy is a whole other thing. There's always been many Spidey-Titles (In fact I think there's less now: No Spectacular, Sensational or Web-of-Spider-man). Yes, he's also an Avenger now but that's ok with me. Avengers is better for it I think.
@Anung. I'm sure Miles will be fine. He just got started. He's only been on like two adventures! Can't kill him now.
The ultimate universe is generally treated with much more of an axe than 616. If sales dipped or there was significant public outcry about something they wouldn't have much of a problem retiring the character. They've done it numerous times already with other lines.
Yes, that's one of the things I like about the Utimate U. Still, I'll be quite surprised if the kill off Miles Morales in that mini-series.
So, I primed by FF reading while waiting for the volumes of Hickman's work to arrive, by reading a "Greatest of" volume that reminded me why I liked those characters (especially Doom) so much as a kid. While planning my pull list update, I even considered putting some Marvel titles on there. But where the feth am I supposed to start? And Marvel's webpage doesn't seem to help out with this at all. The New 52 was truly an excellent idea, even if it wasn't exactly a clean reboot. I hope DC will attempt to keep things a neat as possible so others can start or re-start comic reading over the next few years. With Marvel, I have no idea what is up.
Well I guess it depends on what characters you like. I think New Avengers (Vol. 1) #1 is kind of like the starting point of the current storyline. House of M could be argued to be that too, certainly for the mutants.
Hi chaps, I haven't posted in this thread before, but I thought I'd share something with you before I receive the (probably lengthy) ban that is surely coming my way. We found this at work the other day:
Albatross wrote:Hi chaps, I haven't posted in this thread before, but I thought I'd share something with you before I receive the (probably lengthy) ban that is surely coming my way. We found this at work the other day:
I noticed that I had not been getting my comics for a while. When they come by post, you have to be a bit patient -- could be sooner or later and that's just the way it is. But I had missed every issue 9 with two weeks of 10s already in stores. That couldn't be a USPS folly. So I called DC and they told me there was a hold on my account. According to them, the USPS told them my address was no good. Strangely, I get all the rest of my mail from the USPS every day but Sunday ... In any case, DC had not bothered to let me know about this at all.
Not only had DC not informed me about the hold but the "hold" didn't have anything to do with actually holding my issues. Their plan is to simply not send anything out and tack on extra months to the subscription on the end -- while your comics get sold to someone else. The result was that I missed the entire gamut of Night of the Owls crossover issues -- and, being a Bat-fan, this was especially jarring given that I subscribed to all the rather tangential "Bat-titles" (minus Batwing but including All-Star Western). So I canceled every single direct sub and revamped my pull list (as posted yesterday) for my local store.
One other thing: DC also informed me they had transferred my sub of RHatO to Green Lantern. News to me. I asked why and the lady said RHatO was being discontinued. Now that would be news to everyone, including Scott Lobdell I imagine. Why I was assigned Green Lantern? Seriously, nothing about my direct subs suggested that I cared anything about GL -- why not JLA? It has Batman in it at least.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/06/19 15:27:52
So I read the first two stories from Brand New Day. I don't want to say it's stupid, because I was really tryinvg to get into it with an open mind, but man... this is pretty lame.
I'm looking forward to what they're doing next with Jonah, but the rest of the "new status quo" was pretty annoying. Spider-Man can't afford new webs? Yeah, that's really original. Menace seems like a real lame villian too. They do make jokes about him being another Kobold villian, but that doesn't make him less stupid. And don't get me started on Jackpot!
I dropped off of spidey after the whole omd/bnd fiasco but recently got back on, starting with "big time" and reading from there. I found it rather entertaining and don't really feel as though i missed anything between omd and big time. so if you aren't liking bnd give big time a shot.
I'll admit up front I haven't read all 56 pages of this thread, so if someone else has already addressed this, I apologize.
I wanted to ask though, has anyone read the new Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles comic from IDW? I looked through a preview of "Change is Constant," a collection of the first few issues and it looked pretty awesome.
What have those of you who have read the new series thought of it so far? Worth getting into?
@Manchu: That sucks. I thought you used a subscription box at your friendly neighborhood comic book store.
@Anung & wana: I'm like you wana I didn't pick it up again until "Big Time'. That's pretty much the opposite of what you're reading now Anung. They realize that Parker is probably one of the top 10 smartest guys on the planet so why is he always living like a bum? He gets his dream job of being a scientist with unlimited resources finally and the fun insues. Honestly, might be a good idea to skip everything up until then but I know you're starved for Spidey.
Hordini wrote:I wanted to ask though, has anyone read the new Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles comic from IDW? I looked through a preview of "Change is Constant," a collection of the first few issues and it looked pretty awesome.
What have those of you who have read the new series thought of it so far? Worth getting into?
I've only read the first TPB so far and I really enjoyed it. It's another reboot and a slightly altered origin story but it works really well. It's darker, but not quite as dark as the original series. Though that might just come from the fact that it's in color this time.
KamikazeCanuck wrote:@Anung & wana: I'm like you wana I didn't pick it up again until "Big Time'. That's pretty much the opposite of what you're reading now Anung. They realize that Parker is probably one of the top 10 smartest guys on the planet so why is he always living like a bum? He gets his dream job of being a scientist with unlimited resources finally and the fun insues. Honestly, might be a good idea to skip everything up until then but I know you're starved for Spidey.
I liked the Spider-Island preview I read, I just prefer buying and reading trades.
Anung Un Rama wrote:The DC relaunch finally reached Germany. Detective Comics is okay, though the new status quo is, well, old. Batman is hunted by the police again, how is this interesting? We've seen it way too often.
Action Comics was really cool and I'd like to read more with the young Superman. Unfortunatly it comes in olny together with Supergril, which I am not even remotly interested in. As a supporting character in JLU or Superman TAS, okay. But in her stand alone series? Not really.
I also gave in and bought the Brand New Day TPB. It has the first 9 nine issues of the relaunch. Should be enough to decide if I like it or not.
I've really been enjoying Supergirl. They did a good job on not making her a completely flat fem-superman like they have with past versions. Batman being hunted by the police lasts all of like... 6 pages in toto IIRC.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/06/21 22:51:42
I'm both selfish and rational. I'm scheming, secretive and manipulative; I use knowledge as a tool for personal gain, and in turn obtaining more knowledge. At best, I am mysterious and stealthy; at worst, I am distrustful and opportunistic.
It's funny...I meant to post here a week or two ago and ask if we were going to see an Owlman in the Court of Owls. And lo and behold, it seems like we got him. Kinda. He's not from Earth-3 (or "Earth-2" for that matter), but even his Thomas Wayne Jr. identity fits (at least with Morrison's "Earth-2" story, which I didn't think was canon although everyone seems to treat it that way).
But what the *heck* does this mean for the whole RIP/Doctor Hurt/Return of Bruce Wayne storyline? I'm not a continuity freak, but the whole Thomas Wayne Jr. things was already dug up and used very recently. This DC reboot is confusing as heck at times.
It's funny...I meant to post here a week or two ago and ask if we were going to see an Owlman in the Court of Owls. And lo and behold, it seems like we got him. Kinda. He's not from Earth-3 (or "Earth-2" for that matter), but even his Thomas Wayne Jr. identity fits (at least with Morrison's "Earth-2" story, which I didn't think was canon although everyone seems to treat it that way).
But what the *heck* does this mean for the whole RIP/Doctor Hurt/Return of Bruce Wayne storyline? I'm not a continuity freak, but the whole Thomas Wayne Jr. things was already dug up and used very recently. This DC reboot is confusing as heck at times.
With regard to continuity: as I understand it, unless they explicitly mention something happening, it didn't.
I'm both selfish and rational. I'm scheming, secretive and manipulative; I use knowledge as a tool for personal gain, and in turn obtaining more knowledge. At best, I am mysterious and stealthy; at worst, I am distrustful and opportunistic.
Manchu wrote:Thomas Wayne Jr. had nothing to do with the Doctor Hurt arc.
EDIT: Well, I should rephrase, the TW Jr. "identity" of Simon Hurt has nothing to do (other than thematically) with the identity of Owlman.
Spoiler:
But Hurt was at the same facility as Lincoln March, right? Both saying they were Thomas Wayne Jr.? I'm sure there's a way to rectify this. One might be that Lincoln March isn't TW Jr., but has been made to think so. Otherwise, it seems like RIP, etc is out and Snyder's treading on territory that Morrison already visited a couple years ago.
Edit: Okay, so I guess the March Willowwood facility was specifically for children, where the Hurt facility was Willowwood Asylum for all ages, since he entered as an adult. So either there are two facilities by that name and you have two individuals going in and out of those facilities (which I think is convoluted) or the Morrison storylines don't exist anymore. Or at least some of them are gone, since the Batman Inc. members and Damian are still around.
It's funny, I had the Owlman part figured out, but the TW Jr. part is really confusing me.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/06/22 17:36:53
Well, I read Morrison's "1234" last night, his take on the Fantastic Four. It reminded me that the Watchmen is ultimately for people who don't like comics.
But I don't want to get ahead of myself.
Imagine if the Fantastic Four weren't just cheerful, perfect people who had super powers but were realistic people with realistic problems who had super powers. Well, Grant Morrison revolutionizes -- er, wait, nope, that's what Stan Lee did when he created the Fantastic Four forty years before Morrison got a hold of them. We can say then that Morrison is true to their roots when he gives us a mopey Ben, a restless Johnny, a neglected Sue, and a guilt-ridden Reed. In fact, Morrison does absolutely nothing new with these characters -- which is weird, because they usually bring him in to break a title down into its elemental pieces and flip them around in a novel way to remind us why we ever liked that title in the first place. And we know that Morrison did his usual research. He even references Doctor Doom's invisible ring that controls his mask. So why is Morrison's Fantastic Four no different from Lee's?
It's as easy as not fixing what isn't broken. But this isn't just another FF story, either. The FF are already a deconstruction of comic book superheroes but Morrison can't resist the urge to deconstruct somebody ... how about the theatrical Doctor Doom? Who better to psychologically unmask than the man who's mask is a psychological fixation? The question begs another: why is Doom so operatic when his nemeses are so down-to-earth? Doom, the ruler of a country who walks around dressed in crazy armor while spouting awkward prose poetry (I can imagine him objecting "Who dares denigrate the diction of DOOOOM??") is hardly an everyday guy like Aunt Petuna's blue-eyed nephew. Sure, Reed isn't exactly the type of dude you'd meet in any old coffee shop but he gets to deal with the guilt and isolation of being different, same as Ben. Doom, on the other hand, is straight out of comic books.
That makes him the perfect foil to more realistic comic book heroes in Stan Lee's post-modern turn. Looking back to the earliest days of Action comics, the good guy was the "supernatural" element but crime was very mundane: thievery, thuggery, and corruption instead of costumed criminals with death rays and demonic patrons. For Lee, the FF would be the exact opposite: real people struggling with strange powers against a sorcerer-scientist megalomaniac wearing a cape and cowl. As I said, this seemed to have been irresistible to Morrison. What if Doctor Doom was just a normal guy, too? How would that change our interpretation of his character?
Well, Morrison reasons that Victor von Doom is basically just a petty child. The plot has Doom playing with reality like it's a chess game with human lives as nothing more than the pawns. He's even got little figures of the FF family. And he also seems driven to make Reed believe that the FF is responsible for Doom being the way that he is. By the end of the story, Sue is just screaming at Victor to grow up and stop wasting the FF's time with his silly, envy-fueled schemes. Doctor Doom is stripped down to a pathetic nobody begging for validation from the people he hurts.
Is that insightful? Grant Morrison is pretty damn insightful so his take on Doom in 1234 is a big disappointment. In the real world, villains are usually pathetic people. Consider Anders Breivik, the man who thought of himself as a Christian knight errant so as to justify the murder of children. There's really nothing at all grand or even interesting about such people, despite their own pleas to be taken seriously. That's not the reaction I have ever had to Doctor Doom. Doom is a complex guy. Remember his backstory? And how about the fact that the people of Latveria actually love him? He's consistently portrayed as having some twisted sense of honor. His whole career as Doctor Doom started because he was trying to save his mom's soul from hell.
Doom is not some Breivik to be scorned as a malicious idiot and it's a pity that Morrison writes him as such. It culminates with Doom taking off his mask to reveal -- NOTHING. That's right, empty armor. (And by the way, this is an allusion that Doom himself creates to prove to Ben Grimm that Reed Richards is the real Doctor Doom, i.e., responsible for Doom's destructive behavior. He's a good writer, that Morrison, even when he's not at his best.) When we see Breivik sitting smugly in the court room telling everyone that he's serious, not insane, we should see an emptiness -- of validity. But Doom is the opposite: behind the mask there is something worthwhile. The essence of the character is scarred nobility. Just as Reed never gave up on Ben, he never gives up on Victor. In turn, Doctor Doom is both infuriated and seemingly touched. He has saved the FF on quite a few occasions, after all.
Morrison's deconstruction of Doctor Doom is probably very meaningful to readers who don't like Doctor Doom and think comics should be more "realistic." But the great thing about comics, folks, is that they don't have to be "realistic." When Alan Moore wrote the Watchmen, he insisted that we take superheroes "seriously" and then made a mockery of them as cold aliens, hateful perverts, and impotent victims. Moore wasn't blazing trails by deconstructing superheroics. Stan Lee pioneered that method in Fantastic Four in 1961. Lee did it for people who liked comics, igniting an era of comic book fandom and basically making Marvel the household name it remains today. But Moore did it for people who didnt like comics, who felt they were childish and dull, and needed to "grow up" (which apparently means "develop psychological problems"). Moore's own analysis of his work's impact is simple: nothing good has ever been written since.
Morrison's take on Doctor Doom seems to fall into the tradition of Moore rather than Lee. And yet, Morrison can't help but follow Lee when it comes to the Fantastic Four themselves. The result is that the FF, contrasted against Doom's pettiness, come off as genuinely great people despite their faults. One might almost say that the FF seem to stand for liking comics and Doom stands for not liking them. I wish I could say that. But Doom was a poor choice to run through the wringer of Alan Moore's deconstruction. Doom, after all, stands for comics books more than any of Reed, Sue, Ben, or Johnny. You might say, they're just normal people stuck in Doom's world. By the end of 1234, you feel like Doom is trying to make the real world into the comic book one -- and that it's just childish, mean, and stupid.
When Sue scoffs at Doom for playing with "toys" (she holds up his figures of the FF and tells him "you should be ashamed of yourself") I couldn't help but be aware of myself as a 27-year-old man reading a comic book. That's a weird signal to send there, Grant.
Automatically Appended Next Post: @gorgon: Ohhh boy ...
Spoiler:
There's only one Willowood. Hurt went there, with Thomas and Martha lying about who he was -- creating the name "Thomas Wayne Jr.," which Morrison took from a defunct (thanks CoIE!) Batman book where Bruce really did have a sick brother. Snyder has "Lincoln March" claim to be TWJr and that his allegedly phony name comes from the street corner where Martha Wayne had a car accident while pregnant with him. March ominously says he was thus "born hurt" -- getting chills yet? -- and that Thomas and Martha hid him at Willowood.
I think Snyder is trying to remind us that Simon Hurt turned out to be a liar, despite us having believed from time to time that he really was Thomas Wayne Sr.
This message was edited 8 times. Last update was at 2012/06/22 18:53:15
Yeah, I know the old TW Jr story. Heck, I might have the first guy here to bring up TW Jr as a potential identity for Hurt back during that whole arc. So you're asserting that Owlman (prolly best to drop the pseudonyms at this point) is either lying or delusional and was never at Willowwood, therefore there's no issue with two men of different ages but the same apparent identity being at the same facility.
I guess that all fits, but it does make this Owlman a little less interesting as a villain if he's not Bruce's mirror image. And it still seems like Morrison just finished treading the whole fake insane TW Jr/secret society ground. Unless of course there is a connection between Hurt and Owlman. I missed the "born hurt" line...good catch. So Owlman = Son of Hurt?
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