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The Five(ish) Doctors was amazing. Laughed constantly at it and am left wishing for a series featuring these three roaming time and space.
It was, by a country mile, more enjoyable and a better tribute to the 50 years of the series than the entirely recent-centric 'special', which really fell flat for me.
Avatar 720 wrote: The Curator was Tom Baker's Doctor, not an unknown incarnation, and AFAIK the Valeyard is not necessarily a numbered incarnation, either, but more of a title based on his actions, or rather something akin the Dream Lord - existing as part of an existing Doctor as opposed to an altogether separate one.
The curator said that the Doctor would return to old faces in the future. Granted, I just watched it but... I think this is a future incarnation that chose Tom Baker's face to go back to, not Tom Baker's doctor. After all, if it was Tom Baker's doctor that would be some explaining to do. As for the Valeyard, even if it is a title based on actions it is a future incarnation that takes that title. The dream lord is an incarnation that wasn't a doctor, just part of his consciousness because of dream pollen or whatever.
I took away from it the same thing you did, that from the "You know, I really think you might" line, to the "in the years to come you might find yourself revisiting a few, but just the old favorites" he was implying that he was a future incarnation once again using the Tom Baker face. As for the Valeyard (who we know is still out there waiting from The Name of the Doctor), it makes you wonder where he is going to fall (somewhere between 12th which we now know is Matt Smith) and final incarnation with original limit being 13. It'll be fun to see how they get around it all. Doing what they did in the 50th without retconning anything was an amazing bit of storytelling.
Also as much as I would have liked to see Bad Wolf and interact with more than just the War Doctor I think they did it right. I know a lot of speculation was that they were going to bring Human Doctor and Rose over from Pete's World and I am so glad they didn't do that. The focus of the special was exactly where it should be, on setting the course for the future of the show. It paid homage to the past in a significant way, without putting the focus there. All of the Time Lord High Council scheming from The End of Time is intact, and even has references to the Day of the Doctor period with how the War Doctor has disappeared and that "We know his intention. He still possesses the Moment and he'll use it to destroy Dalek and Time Lord alike." It's all been tied together nicely, and really makes you think about some of the things from the new era in a different perspective.
The special really highlighted how much I despise Matt smith and adore David Tenant. I was also quite disappointed that the three doctors had a "everyone lives" moment regarding Gallifrey as I quite liked the 10th doctors survivor guilt, though I will admit it makes a lot more sense (especially for that finale when the time lords came out of stasis) having them alive.
MORE TIMEWAR, LESS ZYGON.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/25 01:25:08
Did a miss the resolution to the Zygons? Or was it simply just that they're negotiating now? What happens after five minutes when they remember which are which?
I'll be curious to see, if at all, they try to reconcile how this fits with the events of "The End of Time", which was also set on the last day of the war but saw The High Council try to destroy Earth to make a new Gallifrey.
I was entertained, but felt that it undercut a lot of the previous storyline, and I thought having the Doctor dealing with the past was a nice element added to the character from the earlier incarnations. I worry we are replacing character growth for a never ending search for the One Armed Man, so to speak.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
Ahtman wrote: I'll be curious to see, if at all, they try to reconcile how this fits with the events of "The End of Time", which was also set on the last day of the war but saw The High Council try to destroy Earth to make a new Gallifrey.
From what I recall, End of Time took place in 'the final days' of the Time War, rather than explicitly the last day. Rassilon mentions the Doctor 'has the Moment' but not that he's used it yet. As such, it all happened as normal and was stopped by Tennant. There's also the line from the Time Lord Commander, 'Damn the High Council, their plans have already failed', possibly referencing End Of Time and the Final Sanction. So I think we can assume that Rassilon fails as already established, and DOTD is set after that incident.
Where this really gets interesting is that it means that The Master was potentially on Gallifrey when it was frozen. So The Doctor flies off and finds it, gets given his new cycle of regenerations, and then out pops the Master, reasserting him as a potential recurring character without any kind of cheesy cop-out needed. They've kind of done it with the Daleks already, having them still present as a threat and just defeating them on odd occasions (An entire Dalek fleet survived Asylum), rather than the annual extinction (followed by one ship 'falling through time') they've suffered for the last few years, so the same could happen with the Master.
Thoroughly enjoyed the whole thing, sat there with a big old grin creased all over my chops.
Funny bits were funny, sad bits sad and so on, hit the beats for me.
And full of plenty of winks to the fans -- see the line about the filing system and the previous DR. Who team ups.
One suspects that the Tom Baker line/cameo will also become a bit more clear as/when Smith regenerates into Capaldi.
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
He could be a projection of future/past Doctor, like the Watcher or K'anpo Rimpoche from Planet of the Spiders. I think it's better if it isn't addressed actually.
I see quite a few people bringing up the Valeyard as an issue during the Doctors last incarnation but even by the confused standards of that story (Trial of a Timelord) it was fairly clear he was only a possible future Doctor distilled from the very worst of the Doctor's possible futures, he wasn't actually the Doctor's true future self.
Last night I ordered my John Hurt Doctor from Heresy...
I wonder if Tom Baker represented the choice that the Doctor made right at the end of his time. He chooses to live out his days as that regeneration?
Have to say that the Doctor getting so under the skin of the Time Lord hierarchy was brilliant. They have the choice of total destruction or letting him try out his idea... and there is a brief pause as they weigh it up. Brilliant. It just shows how important a Time Lord the Doctor is. Here's to more background fluff coming out. Modern film technology should allow some good stuff to come out.
... just had a thought. What now happens to the Master and Timothy Dalton's Time Lord character?
Live your life that the fear of death can never enter your heart. Trouble no one about his religion. Respect others in their views and demand that they respect yours. Love your life, perfect your life. Beautify all things in your life. Seek to make your life long and of service to your people. When your time comes to die, be not like those whose hearts are filled with fear of death, so that when their time comes they weep and pray for a little more time to live their lives over again in a different way. Sing your death song, and die like a hero going home.
Lt. Rorke - Act of Valor
I can now be found on Facebook under the name of Wulfstan Design
best doctor? well got to be Mr J Hurt hasn't it? he was in the 40k movie and also voiced a damn dragon! seriously though the top 4 are Hurt, Tennent, Baker and smith
Ahtman wrote: I'll be curious to see, if at all, they try to reconcile how this fits with the events of "The End of Time", which was also set on the last day of the war but saw The High Council try to destroy Earth to make a new Gallifrey.
I was entertained, but felt that it undercut a lot of the previous storyline, and I thought having the Doctor dealing with the past was a nice element added to the character from the earlier incarnations. I worry we are replacing character growth for a never ending search for the One Armed Man, so to speak.
They seem to have explained it as this created a "bubble" within his timeline, yeah he "fixed" Gallifrey, but the way in which he did it, 10 and 11 (and theoretically 9) don't remember, so they still have the conscious memory of destroying their home planet/people.
... just had a thought. What now happens to the Master and Timothy Dalton's Time Lord character?
I reckon they were still on Gallifrey, although in what state I'm not sure, but there's scope to bring them both back as and when Gallifrey is rediscovered. As I said earlier, a plot arc involving the Master and the Doctor, both with brand-new cycles of regenerations, would be inetersting to see.
taffy2499 wrote:best doctor? well got to be Mr J Hurt hasn't it? he was in the 40k movie and also voiced a damn dragon! seriously though the top 4 are Hurt, Tennent, Baker and smith
No Pertwee? No taste...
But seriously, though John Hurt's doctor was nothing short of amazing, both in terms of character and acting. He is an amazing actor, an did very well.
Just for the record, my favourite Doctors: 1) Pertwee 2) Tennant 3) Hurt 4) Smith 5) Tom Baker.
Eccleston and McGann both needed more time, but showed great potential. Go on, BBC, give McGann the series he's deserved for 17 years!
Graphite wrote: Damn I've missed David Tennant's doctor. Only one more episode of Matt Bloody Smith left!
Thank god.
Me and the two mates I watched the special with were hoping he'd die early.
Ah, the haters are finally starting to come out of the woodwork now that the blaze of euphoria over the special is dwindling. Time for me to be pretending the fandom doesn't exist again...
~Tim?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/25 14:30:02
I just can't understand people that hate kids. I mean, I'm the kinda person that never really sees any reason to outright hate anything* (I'd rather use the energy to find something to enjoy), so there's that. But there's also the fact that kids' brains are still undergoing massive amounts development and growth...I think that a lotta people that loathe children forget this and expect them to act like little adults.
Alfndrate wrote: I'm so glad that there are people that like Eccleston just as much as I do
It's okay. You're not alone anymore.
I don't understand why not many people love Eccleston. As well as the excellent scripts, Eccleston's Doctor was kinda like a sarcastic, normal bloke, and so made the series really scary. The episode with that gas mask child is the scariest Dr Who episode of all time.
Yeah, Ecclestone was pretty amazing as the Doctor, especially having to both stay true to the original character while making it relevant and engaging to a new audience, which was something he did exceptionally well.
And I agree, The Empty Child is one of the most awesome episodes ever. It still stands as the only episode ever to have freaked me out, and the scene where he sends it to its room only to then realise he's in that room is just brilliantly done.
The only problem was that he needed more time, 1 series was not enough for the character to properly develop ad evolve.
But yes, he was an exceptionally good Doctor given the circumstances.
Paradigm wrote: Yeah, Ecclestone was pretty amazing as the Doctor, especially having to both stay true to the original character while making it relevant and engaging to a new audience, which was something he did exceptionally well.
And I agree, The Empty Child is one of the most awesome episodes ever. It still stands as the only episode ever to have freaked me out, and the scene where he sends it to its room only to then realise he's in that room is just brilliantly done.
The only problem was that he needed more time, 1 series was not enough for the character to properly develop ad evolve.
But yes, he was an exceptionally good Doctor given the circumstances.
I think he either left the series because he didn't want to get typecast (a good decision) or that he got angry with the production team. He doesn't want to disclose the full details.
Anyway, if John Hurt was the war doctor, does that make him the ninth doctor? And Eccleston the tenth, Tennant the eleventh and so on?
Really excited for Capaldi, as well. I think he's going to be eccentric without being stupid (Matt Smith), serious without being boring. I hope he says loads of sarcastic remarks, too.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/25 18:35:18
