Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!

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**Vankraken**

The strength of Grots is how cheap they are and their small model size. In a min squad of grots I would run them bare bones but if your taking larger blobs (19 or 29 grot squads) then the hound would be decently worthwhile to take. Grots in general but especially the min cost squads want to take advantage of their small size to hide in terrain while grabbing objectives. Also the virtue of being so cheap in points discourages most enemies from shooting them because its wasting a turn of decent firepower to kill lowly grots.

**tag8833**

Vankraken wrote:
The strength of Grots is how cheap they are and their small model size. In a min squad of grots I would run them bare bones but if your taking larger blobs (19 or 29 grot squads) then the hound would be decently worthwhile to take. Grots in general but especially the min cost squads want to take advantage of their small size to hide in terrain while grabbing objectives. Also the virtue of being so cheap in points discourages most enemies from shooting them because its wasting a turn of decent firepower to kill lowly grots.

Its not uncommon that if I have 5 extra points in my list I throw a Squig Hound on a unit of Grots. The look on my opponent's face when I say "Release the hound", and start picking up grots is great.

**cranect**

I just like taking the hound so that it eats the grots. You know that's how you keep your squigs healthy.

**Vitali Advenil**

Yeah, I think if I have the extra points lying around, I'll pick up the hound. Otherwise I'll leave it behind. As I see it, if they spent a turn to shoot the grots, they spent a turn wasting their shots.

**Frozocrone**

Managed to get a 1500 pt game in today, HQ and elites were half price. Ran Nob Bikers, grots, three Dakkajet, warboss, painboy, lootas mega mek meganobz and tankbustas. Had allied detachment of ba to mame points but they did nothing as I forgot my flamers would give 4+ to salamanders.

Lootas did OK, not a lot of targets but did stop pods getting line breaker. Tankbustas performed as always, killed a dread and would have helped against leviathan dreadnought, had one mega nob not got a pen through and rolled a 7! Dakkajet killed a few things but nothing noteworthy. Nob Bikers, even when half price still did nothing noteworthy. They got swept by a Culex who they should have killed in Overwatch. FnP means nothing when my opponent rolled 6's for days.

Warbikers always.

**KaptinBadrukk**

Frozocrone wrote:
Managed to get a 1500 pt game in today, HQ and elites were half price. Ran Nob Bikers, grots, three Dakkajet, warboss, painboy, lootas mega mek meganobz and tankbustas. Had allied detachment of ba to mame points but they did nothing as I forgot my flamers would give 4+ to salamanders.

Lootas did OK, not a lot of targets but did stop pods getting line breaker. Tankbustas performed as always, killed a dread and would have helped against leviathan dreadnought, had one mega nob not got a pen through and rolled a 7! Dakkajet killed a few things but nothing noteworthy. Nob Bikers, even when half price still did nothing noteworthy. They got swept by a Culex who they should have killed in Overwatch. FnP means nothing when my opponent rolled 6's for days.

Warbikers always.

Good story.

**KaptinBadrukk**

Which Bommer is best? Here they are, if you didn't know them.

Dakkajet
Burna-Bommer
Blitza-Bommer

**Frozocrone**

Dakkajet is OK. Not terrible at best.
Burnabomba is bad.
Blitzabomba is not bad at all. AP2 barrage is nothing to sniff at, particularly in Zhadsnark lists.

**KaptinBadrukk**

Frozocrone wrote:
Dakkajet is OK. Not terrible at best.
Burnabomba is bad.
Blitzabomba is not bad at all. AP2 barrage is nothing to sniff at, particularly in Zhadsnark lists.

What's a Zhadsnark list?
Why is a burna bommer bad?
And what makes the Dakkajet okay?

**tag8833**

KaptinBadrukk wrote:
What's a Zhadsnark list?

A list using the Forgeworld HQ Zhardsnark to make warbikers troops. It tends to be a fast list with lots of bikes.

KaptinBadrukk wrote:
Why is a burna bommer bad?

It doesn't do very much damage. S5 bombs that are only AP4 is not very good, and it shoots way less shots that the Dakka Jet .

KaptinBadrukk wrote:
And what makes the Dakkajet okay?

It shoots lots of Twin Linked S6 shots. 9 Shots with 12 on the WAAGH. Also it is BS:3 against many things.

**Frozocrone**

Adding onto what tag8833 said, Zhadsnark also prohibits Deff Dreads, Kills Kanz and more importantly Big Gunz (which will probably be Mek Gunz) so ranged AP2 is hard to find.

**cranect**

The burna bomma is definitely the most situational. Against tau, admech, and to an extent DE and necrons you can get a fair showing out of it with a few missiles and the bombs that all ignore cover. Against anyone with a 3+ save for most of the army it will struggle a lot.

**KaptinBadrukk**

tag8833 wrote:
KaptinBadrukk wrote:
What's a Zhadsnark list?

A list using the Forgeworld HQ Zhardsnark to make warbikers troops. It tends to be a fast list with lots of bikes.

KaptinBadrukk wrote:
Why is a burna bommer bad?

It doesn't do very much damage. S5 bombs that are only AP4 is not very good, and it shoots way less shots that the Dakka Jet .

KaptinBadrukk wrote:
And what makes the Dakkajet okay?

It shoots lots of Twin Linked S6 shots. 9 Shots with 12 on the WAAGH. Also it is BS:3 against many things.

Frozocrone wrote:Adding onto what tag8833 said, Zhadsnark also prohibits Deff Dreads, Kills Kanz and more importantly Big Gunz (which will probably be Mek Gunz) so ranged AP2 is hard to find.

cranect wrote:The burna bomma is definitely the most situational. Against tau, admech, and to an extent DE and necrons you can get a fair showing out of it with a few missiles and the bombs that all ignore cover. Against anyone with a 3+ save for most of the army it will struggle a lot.

Thanks everybody.

**koooaei**

I ran blitza bomber a few times and it underperformed for me. Reserves are a bummer. Needs to fly over to land a bomb. It still just kills too few things that are spread out + doesn't ignore cover saves. It does ignore jink though. All in all, i stopped using ork flyers. I find that more boots on the ground generally perform better.

Blitza bomber has a niche role of threatening jinking bikes and ivisible units, however.

**Frozocrone**

Yeah, I've stopped using my planes in competitive lists. I only brought them on Saturday as I struggled to fit in points.

**koooaei**

It's a unit that's cool on paper but is generally not too great in action. Kinda opposite to grots!

**tag8833**

koooaei wrote:
It's a unit that's cool on paper but is generally not too great in action. Kinda opposite to grots!

I agree with both of you. I don't run fliers in my competitive lists at all. But I generally include grots.

When I'm trying to tank a game, I usually use my Attack Fightas. Because They suck the worst of all of the fliers, IMO.

**col_impact**

This list is performing really well for me. VSG + BullyBoys/Bustas in Trukks is awesome. The Big Mek, Lootas, and a unit of ObjSec Grots ride in the Stompa. The Stompa gets 5 repair rolls and extends the reach of the embarked Grots' Objective Secured scoring.

Spoiler:

**Vitali Advenil**

Wait, how does the blitza-bomma ignore jinks? That would be super useful to use against this Dark Angel player I go up against occasionally.

**Tibs Ironblood**

Vitali Advenil wrote:
Wait, how does the blitza-bomma ignore jinks? That would be super useful to use against this Dark Angel player I go up against occasionally.

If I am not mistaken it has something to do with the fact that when it drops a bomb its not making a shooting attack directed at any unit. You can only jink if you are declared as the target of an attack.

**Vitali Advenil**

Oh damn. Let me scrounge through the rules and see if that's right. If so, holy gak, I finally have an answer to those damn 2+ rerollable jinking bikers. The ravenwings are no real threat, though.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Okay, so the rule says "Move the model that is making the bombing run, and then nominate one model that it passed over. Place the blast marker for the bomb so that the central hole is over the target model and... if a Hit! is rolled, the attack is on target and the marker is not moved." So here it actually uses the word target. The jink rule, though, says:

"When a unit with any models with the jink special rule is selected as a target for a shooting attack, you may declare it will jink. The decision must be made before any To Hit rolls have been made." So there's no restriction for when a jink can be declared, but it does say it has to be selected as a target. However, since the bombing run does say target, it looks like they don't ignore jink saves. At least that's how I'm seein git.

**col_impact**

Vitali Advenil wrote:
Oh damn. Let me scrounge through the rules and see if that's right. If so, holy gak, I finally have an answer to those damn 2+ rerollable jinking bikers. The ravenwings are no real threat, though.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Okay, so the rule says "Move the model that is making the bombing run, and then nominate one model that it passed over. Place the blast marker for the bomb so that the central hole is over the target model and... if a Hit! is rolled, the attack is on target and the marker is not moved." So here it actually uses the word target. The jink rule, though, says:

"When a unit with any models with the jink special rule is selected as a target for a shooting attack, you may declare it will jink. The decision must be made before any To Hit rolls have been made." So there's no restriction for when a jink can be declared, but it does say it has to be selected as a target. However, since the bombing run does say target, it looks like they don't ignore jink saves. At least that's how I'm seein git.

Jink requires the unit to be targeted. Bomb nominates one model and uses target model, not target unit.

**Vitali Advenil**

Oh... well, yeah, I guess it does look like that. It's a bit rules-lawyer-y, but so is placing a blast marker so it's hitting a biker unit indirectly so they don't get their jink saves. Yeah, I know what I'm gonna be hitting his bikers with next game.

**Clang**

To me, 'target for a shooting attack' is the critical wording - it could certainly be argued that a bombing run _isn't_ a shooting attack (and therefore jinking doesn't apply), unless there's other wording elsewhere that says otherwise?

**col_impact**

Clang wrote:
To me, 'target for a shooting attack' is the critical wording - it could certainly be argued that a bombing run _isn't_ a shooting attack (and therefore jinking doesn't apply), unless there's other wording elsewhere that says otherwise?

Logically in the case of a bombing run this never happens --> "When a unit with any models with the jink special rule is selected as a target for a shooting attack . . ."

So jink can never be declared.

The conditions required for the jink rule never happen in the case of bombing run.

**GreyOwl**

Hi everyone! Brand new player here. Collecting Orks. Mega excited. I've read the entire thread and gotten loads of awesome information, so thank you all for your contributions here, this has been super helpful!

Anyway, I have seen no mention of a double Stompa list, so I thought I would run this by yall. It's mega cheesy but would be fun to field against TFG with WKs or Tau, probably not against someone you'd like to remain cordial with haha. I'm sure some improvements could be made. So much Dakka!

Spoiler:

Thoughts?

**Vitali Advenil**

I thought you could only take one stompa at a time since it's a LoW if I'm not mistaken.

Anyway, I'm thinking of running my boyz msu style, so I'm planning to go with squads of 20, even if not in a BW. Right now I'm conflicted over how to gear them up. If I put them in a BW I probably won't bother giving them heavy armor, but on foot I can either give them heavy armor or a KFF big mek for the same price. This way I can have multiple 20 ork blobs runnkng around instead of one big 30 ork blob. Is this a solid strategy, or should I stick with max boyz squads?

**Frozocrone**

Only for ITC and similarly restricted events

**Rismonite**

Fun fact; When a transport carrying ten nobz explodes. Five wounds are inflicted. Two nobz are killed, one is wounded, no morale check is made. With 'eavy armor the likelyhood you won't save any wounds is much less.

Ork boyz, even with 'eavy armor, will lose a perfect 25% of the unit on average, resulting in a morale check before your pinning test.

**Vitali Advenil**

Maybe so, but I'm not a fan of nob squads. They're way too expensive for what they do, and a horde of boyz do their job about as well for cheaper.