Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

The only reason I'd ever actually take Conscripts was if I wanted to recreate something akin to the fighting in Dead Men Walking, where my Death Korps basically pressgang civilians into being a meatshield. So they'd only benefit from orders and commissars if I actually bought dedicated <Regiment> units for them, and I don't consider them close to OP in this scenario.

Instead, for the price of one big Conscript blob with attached officers (~200 points), I could bring 2 heavy artillery pieces with some points to spare. It's a trade I would make most days of the week.

 SonsofVulkan wrote:
In the FW FAQ:

Elysian Drop Troops Army List
"Change the final sentence of the first paragraph to read: ‘Models that have the Aeronautica Imperialis keywords on their datasheets replace them in all instances with Elysian Drop Troops."

Which means Officer of the Fleet's Strafing Coordinates ability will affect all Elysian drop troopers. So basically your Elysian officers don't even have to use the Take Aim order but the Bring it Down one instead. This is pretty powerful that you can re-roll hits and wounds of 1s on whatever priority target.

Oh man! This is really awesome! Elysian veterans are so good this edition.

 Aenarian wrote:
The only reason I'd ever actually take Conscripts was if I wanted to recreate something akin to the fighting in Dead Men Walking, where my Death Korps basically pressgang civilians into being a meatshield.

Just wanted to say that I love that idea.

Update on the tank/death korp of kreig list I posted last week.

I didn't get the chance to pay the list to its fullest potential. My opponent want to do 1750pts and he was not prepared to fight a super heavy. So I dropped the Stormsword from my list and adjusted my list to 1750pts. My opponent was running eldar guardian spam with 2 wraithlords and 3 units of wraithguard. We got Big guns never tire and vanguard strike. I load some extra LOS blocking piece of terrain to give my opponent an advantage. This seemed to not help him. I ended up going first. Deployment, Center was tank commander, demolisher, and missile teams in a chimera. Right flank 3 conqueror tanks. Left flank, Stormtroopers in a chimera with field marshal, hydra, and exterminator tank.

First turn, tanks on center and right, cleared my opponent's left flank killing guardian squad in a building holding an objective, squad of eldar bikers, wraithlord, and almost killed a wraith guard unit. My opponent attempted to us the LOS blocking terrain to this advantage and moved his whole army behind some of the buildings. Cutting LOS off to my right flank. During my second turn, the tank commander and demolisher shifted to the left flank to re-enforce the flank. Right flank moved forward and toward my opponent's table edge. On the battle field was a piece of castle wall in the middle being used as a LOS blocking piece. The wall had a castle gate in it. This gave me an opening for the tanks to fire through. I position the tanks to have line of sight on the opening. There was also an objective in the opening as well. My opponent made the mistake of moving forward too far and put units in the opening. During my next turn, my right flank open up again on him clearing more infantry.

End of the battle. Death korp of Krieg won 8-3. Loss 1 chimera and the stormtrooper squad. They served there purpose shielding the tank line from an assault that was able to make it to my front line. The demolishes tank was brought down to 4 wounds left, but managed to pull back deeper in my line to preserve the tank.


Overall, tanks performed very good. The conqueror tanks did not show there full potential, but they still proved to worth tanking. I did not noticed this when I was building the list, but the conquerors have an improved movement stat. 10" stead of 8". I made some mistakes with the tank commander. Forgot my orders 1 turn and kept giving the same order to the demolisher. Tho I did not see a reason to not keep ordering him since he was hitting the hardest. The FAQ on the demolishers is a great improvement.

vipoid wrote:

 Aenarian wrote:
The only reason I'd ever actually take Conscripts was if I wanted to recreate something akin to the fighting in Dead Men Walking, where my Death Korps basically pressgang civilians into being a meatshield.

Just wanted to say that I love that idea.

Well, I have thought about it and it seems more feasible now that I can mix and match units from different factions in one detachment, and don't have to take goddamn platoons. I think the biggest hurdle right now is that the entire range of GW Astra Militarum looks terrible, incredibly dated or both, as well as DKoK actually have more realistic proportions compared to GW plastics or metals.

Glitcha wrote:Update on the tank/death korp of kreig list I posted last week.

I didn't get the chance to pay the list to its fullest potential. My opponent want to do 1750pts and he was not prepared to fight a super heavy. So I dropped the Stormsword from my list and adjusted my list to 1750pts. My opponent was running eldar guardian spam with 2 wraithlords and 3 units of wraithguard. We got Big guns never tire and vanguard strike. I load some extra LOS blocking piece of terrain to give my opponent an advantage. This seemed to not help him. I ended up going first. Deployment, Center was tank commander, demolisher, and missile teams in a chimera. Right flank 3 conqueror tanks. Left flank, Stormtroopers in a chimera with field marshal, hydra, and exterminator tank...

This made a bit more confident in using my Mars-Alpha tanks in the future. Great to hear!

The Commissar (30pts) comes with a bolt pistol (1pt) so would cost 31pts as per his description but can take up to two items from the AM melee list and replace the bolt pistol with with one item from the AM ranged weapon list.

Does this mean I can take him with a chainsword (0pts) and a las pistol (0pts) and he will cost 30pts flat. I know this doesn't sound like a lot but in tournament play I want to take exactly the point limit and that 1pt could make a difference.

CaptainO wrote:
The Commissar (30pts) comes with a bolt pistol (1pt) so would cost 31pts as per his description but can take up to two items from the AM melee list and replace the bolt pistol with with one item from the AM ranged weapon list.

Does this mean I can take him with a chainsword (0pts) and a las pistol (0pts) and he will cost 30pts flat. I know this doesn't sound like a lot but in tournament play I want to take exactly the point limit and that 1pt could make a difference.

Laspistols are not on the Astra Militarum Ranged Weapons-list on pg. 11, and Chainswords are not on the Astra Militarum Melee Weapons-list on the same page. So unfortunately not. You can change the pistol for a Boltgun or Plasma Pistol, and you can take any two of Power Sword, Power Maul, Power Axe and Power Fist.

CaptainO wrote:
The Commissar (30pts) comes with a bolt pistol (1pt) so would cost 31pts as per his description but can take up to two items from the AM melee list and replace the bolt pistol with with one item from the AM ranged weapon list.

Does this mean I can take him with a chainsword (0pts) and a las pistol (0pts) and he will cost 30pts flat. I know this doesn't sound like a lot but in tournament play I want to take exactly the point limit and that 1pt could make a difference.

It means that you can take weapons from the ranged weapon and melee weapon list on page 11 of your index. Las weapons of any sort are sadly not included on that selection.

Note that there are particular other units you can actually take cheaper than the default price.

 Aenarian wrote:

vipoid wrote:

 Aenarian wrote:
The only reason I'd ever actually take Conscripts was if I wanted to recreate something akin to the fighting in Dead Men Walking, where my Death Korps basically pressgang civilians into being a meatshield.

Just wanted to say that I love that idea.

Well, I have thought about it and it seems more feasible now that I can mix and match units from different factions in one detachment, and don't have to take goddamn platoons. I think the biggest hurdle right now is that the entire range of GW Astra Militarum looks terrible, incredibly dated or both, as well as DKoK actually have more realistic proportions compared to GW plastics or metals.

Glitcha wrote:Update on the tank/death korp of kreig list I posted last week.

I didn't get the chance to pay the list to its fullest potential. My opponent want to do 1750pts and he was not prepared to fight a super heavy. So I dropped the Stormsword from my list and adjusted my list to 1750pts. My opponent was running eldar guardian spam with 2 wraithlords and 3 units of wraithguard. We got Big guns never tire and vanguard strike. I load some extra LOS blocking piece of terrain to give my opponent an advantage. This seemed to not help him. I ended up going first. Deployment, Center was tank commander, demolisher, and missile teams in a chimera. Right flank 3 conqueror tanks. Left flank, Stormtroopers in a chimera with field marshal, hydra, and exterminator tank...

This made a bit more confident in using my Mars-Alpha tanks in the future. Great to hear!

Points be damned, Mars-alpha pattern Conqueror tank all day every day.

 Glitcha wrote:

Points be damned, Mars-alpha pattern Conqueror tank all day every day.

Actually don't have the Conqueror one because it was pretty bad before, but I'm thinking about getting some Stygies Vanquisher turrets and converting them into Conquerors

Actually, now that you mention it... it's kind of lame that you can't take a chainsword and laspistol Commissar.

I hope the codex goes about adding some stuff to the ranged weapon and melee weapon lists, they just feel really incomplete.

 ross-128 wrote:
Actually, now that you mention it... it's kind of lame that you can't take a chainsword and laspistol Commissar.

Why? The Officio Prefectus is a cut above. They don't use the same equipment as the rabble.

Besides, are you really complaining about having to pay 1 point extra? It's a BS3+ model, I'd probably pay for a Bolter even if it wasn't mandatory.

 ross-128 wrote:
Actually, now that you mention it... it's kind of lame that you can't take a chainsword and laspistol Commissar.

I hope the codex goes about adding some stuff to the ranged weapon and melee weapon lists, they just feel really incomplete.

But Ross, none of the official GW models have laspistols or chainswords! It's obviously unrealistic to add all kinds of weird and rare equipment to the weapons lists!

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-SE/search/searchResults.jsp?qty=com.gamesworkshop.endeca.EndecaUserContext%406112bacb&sorting=&view=&Ntt=Commissar


Automatically Appended Next Post:

KestrelM1 wrote:

 ross-128 wrote:
Actually, now that you mention it... it's kind of lame that you can't take a chainsword and laspistol Commissar.

Why? The Officio Prefectus is a cut above. They don't use the same equipment as the rabble.

Besides, are you really complaining about having to pay 1 point extra? It's a BS3+ model, I'd probably pay for a Bolter even if it wasn't mandatory.

Thing is, at least chainswords and laspistols have been used by Commissars in the lore, althoug both of them seem to be more or less non-existant on models. Also, to rub salt in the wounds, Death Korps Commissars can take both a laspistol and a chainsword.

An amusing way to utilize a grav-chute insertion if you happen to be an infantry Guard player who is, for some weird reason, worried about drop counts: cram all your officers into a single Valkyrie (or Vendetta, if you also want to use it as a gunship), and deploy it about 12" from one side of your deployment zone. On the first turn, fly it 20" toward the other side and grav-chute all your officers into their positions. Between the 20" line you just drew through the center of your deployment zone and their 6" of movement, they should be able to get pretty much anywhere you want them.

Kind of silly/pointless, but it does mean you can reduce your deployment footprint by 11 drops.

Probably the only list this would actually get you first turn against is another infantry guard list though.

 Aenarian wrote:

CaptainO wrote:
The Commissar (30pts) comes with a bolt pistol (1pt) so would cost 31pts as per his description but can take up to two items from the AM melee list and replace the bolt pistol with with one item from the AM ranged weapon list.

Does this mean I can take him with a chainsword (0pts) and a las pistol (0pts) and he will cost 30pts flat. I know this doesn't sound like a lot but in tournament play I want to take exactly the point limit and that 1pt could make a difference.

Laspistols are not on the Astra Militarum Ranged Weapons-list on pg. 11, and Chainswords are not on the Astra Militarum Melee Weapons-list on the same page. So unfortunately not. You can change the pistol for a Boltgun or Plasma Pistol, and you can take any two of Power Sword, Power Maul, Power Axe and Power Fist.

Which is really really annoying. Lasguns and Laspistols should both be there. I'd much rather give my sergeants lasguns just to simplify shooting. Instead I give them bolters, which means I have to roll them separately.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ross-128 wrote:
An amusing way to utilize a grav-chute insertion if you happen to be an infantry Guard player who is, for some weird reason, worried about drop counts: cram all your officers into a single Valkyrie (or Vendetta, if you also want to use it as a gunship), and deploy it about 12" from one side of your deployment zone. On the first turn, fly it 20" toward the other side and grav-chute all your officers into their positions. Between the 20" line you just drew through the center of your deployment zone and their 6" of movement, they should be able to get pretty much anywhere you want them.

Kind of silly/pointless, but it does mean you can reduce your deployment footprint by 11 drops.

Probably the only list this would actually get you first turn against is another infantry guard list though.

That's a hilarious idea full of awesome.

"Sergeant, look!"
<its raining men starts to play>
"Incoming officers!"

 ross-128 wrote:
An amusing way to utilize a grav-chute insertion if you happen to be an infantry Guard player who is, for some weird reason, worried about drop counts: cram all your officers into a single Valkyrie (or Vendetta, if you also want to use it as a gunship), and deploy it about 12" from one side of your deployment zone. On the first turn, fly it 20" toward the other side and grav-chute all your officers into their positions. Between the 20" line you just drew through the center of your deployment zone and their 6" of movement, they should be able to get pretty much anywhere you want them.

Kind of silly/pointless, but it does mean you can reduce your deployment footprint by 11 drops.

Probably the only list this would actually get you first turn against is another infantry guard list though.

Thank you for making me smile this morning, I will be trying to steal this idea in the future because it would be funny as hell.

 Aenarian wrote:

 Glitcha wrote:

Points be damned, Mars-alpha pattern Conqueror tank all day every day.

Actually don't have the Conqueror one because it was pretty bad before, but I'm thinking about getting some Stygies Vanquisher turrets and converting them into Conquerors

Same here. I was thinking about cutting the barrel down and putting a different muzzel on it or just cut out the back section and use the muzzel the stygies comes with.


Played the tank company again. This time 1250pts. No forge world.
1 tank commander Vanquisher
2 LR-BTs
1 LR-DM
1 Hydra
2 units of scions
1 Tempestor prime
1 Valkyrie

Opponent was running guard blobs with 5 balisk. One of the thing we discovered is that with the new rules that allows us to split fire with all over weapons. This means during the game, the LR-BT's fired their lascannons and battle cannons at the balisk. The heavy bolters and heavy stubbers firing at the guard blobs closest to the tank line.

I lost one of the LR-BT and the Valkyrie. The Valkyrie was able to deliver one of the tempest scion squads before being downed.

Tank company Victory. 11-4

What's everyone's stand on vox casters this edition? Looks like you can significantly increase your order range which, I would think, would be very helpful. All for the cost of a couple of melta bombs.

 Glitcha wrote:

Same here. I was thinking about cutting the barrel down and putting a different muzzel on it or just cut out the back section and use the muzzel the stygies comes with.

That was one idea I had. The other was to try to fit a plastic Battle Cannon onto it, since i have like 8 of those things just lying around.

 necron99 wrote:
What's everyone's stand on vox casters this edition? Looks like you can significantly increase your order range which, I would think, would be very helpful. All for the cost of a couple of melta bombs.

Its a decent upgrade, though you can often keep officers close enough that it isnt needed. The officer also isnt in too much danger thanks to the character rule.

Conscripts cant take em, so they need an officer close by.

Back-line firing squads can usually stay 6" from the officer. At most you need to make a small conga-line for which you can use the sergeant.

Scions pretty much deepstrike with the Tempestor Prime, so they dont need it either.

The only thing I can think of is:

Suicide special/command squads in a Valkyrie. Though they usually have to be deployed more than 18" away, making the vox-caster useless.

Sniper command squads. Though youd have to sacrifice one of the snipers for the vox-caster (remember, the model with the vox caster is not allowd to take a special weapon) making it kinda worthless.

 necron99 wrote:
What's everyone's stand on vox casters this edition? Looks like you can significantly increase your order range which, I would think, would be very helpful. All for the cost of a couple of melta bombs.

Personally for the armies I've considered it's seemed more efficient to just buy more officers for the same points. A shame really.

 necron99 wrote:
What's everyone's stand on vox casters this edition? Looks like you can significantly increase your order range which, I would think, would be very helpful. All for the cost of a couple of melta bombs.

I've never needed them. Given how cheap officers are, I can have enough to deploy one for every few squads I have. And if they're dead it's almost always going to be because their squads have been completely overrun anyway.

I think the main problem with voxes is how you are supposed to use them. A Company Commander has 2 orders, a Platoon Commander 1. To use a Vox Caster, you need to be within 3" if a unit with them. If you buy voxes for Platoon Commanders, why not just order the unit they're adjacent to? If you buy them for Company Commanders, can't you just keep two units at least partially within 6"? It might have some use if and when your units are almost dead, but I don't think I see a major benefit for spending at least 10 points to give orders via voxes.

If the range was a lot higher, I could see a use. Say, 36-48". Then you could feasibly use them for spearhead units without exposing your officers. But at 18... Not really sure I see the point.

 necron99 wrote:
What's everyone's stand on vox casters this edition? Looks like you can significantly increase your order range which, I would think, would be very helpful. All for the cost of a couple of melta bombs.

Company Commander, with two orders, is 30 points. He's the one you likely need the Vox for. Which means you need TWO voxes, so now he's 40 points to produce those two orders. On the other hand: 40 points is the same as two platoon commanders. And you could just stick them next to the squad they're commanding.

So in my opinion its really kind of a washout, and depends on how you want your HQs and Elites to work out. You're not going wrong by using them, and they may come in handy. Voxes on Infantry Squads also don't cost you a lasgun, unlike on Tempestus Scions.

Can we start a petition for the OP to just change the content of the first post to be "yes" and nothing else?

CaptainO wrote:

http://www.3plusplus.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/WeaponChart_IG_Russ.png

Wow, they really killed the Vanquisher this time. VS another Leman Russ (T8, 3+sv), the hull lascannon has a higher chance of scoring damage, at 0.97 wounds per shot, VS 0.94 from the Vanquisher. And the Inferno cannon beats them both!
This is really sad, as it's always been my favorite unit. My armored company is almost exclusively made up of them, from the days when it could still choose to fire either standard Battlecannon ordnance blast rounds or its special anti tank round.

I hope it gets a buff of some kind when the Codex is released. I don't even care if it still won't be worth its points, I just want it to be good at the thing it's supposed to be good at - killing tanks.

Ya the punisher, Battlecannon and maybe the executioner (If you need to save 2 points/like playing with plasma) seem to be the only options.

I'm looking to base 6 infantry units of Infantry around Straken, Harker, a commissar, a priest and maybe some astropaths to mazimise buffs. I'm concerned about snipers targeting my characters (particularly the commissar) first turn because with so many drops I'll probably be going second, so was considering putting them in a Chimera (because for some reason they can't get in a Taurox Prime) when they deploy. Do any of their buffs (re-rol 1s, +1 attacks, Commissar ld etc) work if they are inside the chimera.

Or am I just being paranoid. Have many people fallen victim to character sniper fire turn one? Are snipers appearing as often as it looks like ratlings will due to their low point cost?

Personally if they made the regular vanquisers like the Macharius vanquisher I would be happy.

Also, for those folks looking for a Saber platform searchlight stand in You can try the Zinge Industries "Mandrill" static gun platform with the searchlight option.I have one on the way along with their taurox halftrack kit.

https://www.zinge.co.uk/collections/artillery/products/steampunk-static-mandrill-gun-platform-and-gun-x-1

Even has a little place to put a guardsman

 Ir0njack wrote:
Personally if they made the regular vanquisers like the Macharius vanquisher I would be happy.

I don't really like the Heavy 2. I think the Vanquisher should be one shot with a big pay-off if it hits, and the Annihilator should be the more slow and steady one. But giving it more strength and a flat damage stat of 6 should probably be good enough.

(Assuming BS4+), This gives a ~72% chance to do nothing against T8 Sv3+, which is slightly better than the 79% chance to fail now, and it deals 6 instead of D6 damage when it actually deals damage.