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 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Eihnlazer wrote:
They most likely don't want to nerf the commander, so they have to limit him otherwise people would never use the other HQ's.

Thematically it makes sense anyway. Tau are all about the greater good. All tau from different septs working together to cover and advance each other. If your only using commanders your not doing that.

Unless you are recreating The Eight of the Farsight Enclaves, in which case you need 6 commanders, a Riptide and a Broadside.

Just means no CP. Not even no stratagems if Mirror codex is a relic that lets you generate them from the opponent using them.

Septs are a real thing? Coool. Hope its for more than flufff.

Post here or rumours

Based on the points changes Hikaru gave in the N&R thread, Broadsides are considerably more attractive now. Still a bit expensive for the damage output, but they're pretty durable. The rumored +6" to heavy/rapid fire also makes SMS that much harder to hide from.

The same sept could be a popular one for fire warrior based armies.

Not sure +1 cover for not moving will find a lot of use, considering the importance of mobility for scoring objectives. But, it may end up being pretty popular. The +1LD is good for large units, but then the reroll is more suited to low ROF high dmg units.

Stratagems will likely be a huge factor in choosing a sept.

Borkan FW spam backed by HRR/plasma Broadsides, anyone?

MilkmanAl wrote:
Borkan FW spam backed by HRR/plasma Broadsides, anyone?

The extra 6" on the plasma certainly attractive.

I think SMS at 36" will be too useful in ITC style games where there are no LOS ruins that people can hide infantry in.

Maybe a mix of HRR/Plasma broadsides with target lock, and HYMP/SMS with advanced targetting.

Ap-2 missile pods are very efficient weapons for custodes.

If Advanced Targeting System remained the same or got cheaper, it's so much of an auto-take on all-missile Broadsides it's not even funny. 140 for the Broadside (if I'm not mistaken) then add whatever the ATS costs. Take Bor'kan. At 42", 8 S7 AP-2 D: D3 shots. At 36", 8 S5 AP-1 D:1 shots that ignore cover and line of sight. Yikes. Only BS 4+ though of course.

Don't forget Borkan Y'Vahras with their 14" flamers. I mean, WTF. Speaking of auto-includes...

I wouldn't be surprised if FW update that weapon to Assault in an FAQ or Imperial Armour to be honest Good lord is it brutal.

MilkmanAl wrote:
Don't forget Borkan Y'Vahras with their 14" flamers. I mean, WTF. Speaking of auto-includes...

If they could get 3++ vs ranged, I'd agree. But at 400 pts, they're a bit fragile for their cost. Their potential damage output is terrifying though. 18" move with 14" flamer can do some serious damage. If an enemy doesn't kill it, it'll keep roasting things at the same efficacy thanks to auto hits. Pretty inefficient vs hordes for the cost, but they're basically a hard counter to custodes.

They're definitely glass cannons, but I feel like their shield drones (which are, in fact, good for 3++ against shooting) plus savior protocols should be satisfactory to at least get 1 turn of shooting off and probably 2. If it goes down in a turn, your opponent probably used enough firepower against it to warrant the 400pts anyway.

MilkmanAl wrote:
They're definitely glass cannons, but I feel like their shield drones (which are, in fact, good for 3++ against shooting) plus savior protocols should be satisfactory to at least get 1 turn of shooting off and probably 2. If it goes down in a turn, your opponent probably used enough firepower against it to warrant the 400pts anyway.

Depends on how the savior protocols and such are changing, as Hikaru indicated they will be more in like with other bodyguard rules. Against some lists they'll be hard counters, others they will probably go down while doing very little. Definitely worth considering though, that gun at 14" on a fly platform with 18" of move is no joke. I would not be surprised to see it changed to assault.

Y'vahra getting some sort of balance change seems likely to me. It's going to be a standout unit for Tau, moreso than it already is.

It will be interesting to see how the remainder of the codex shapes up after all this weirdness in the sept/warlord traits.

I haven't really sat down to ponder the rumors just yet, but I figured I'd slap up some initial reactions to the info we have.

Warlord Traits
1) reroll wounds 1 against Monster or Vehs.

Eh, it's nice for a dropping Commander to be extra sure he nukes his target. Rerolling wounds is tough to come by and is pretty useful given that you'll probably be packing high-strength weapons on your Warlord.

2) your shooting phase, pick a visible enemy unit to your warlord, each time any friendly <sept> unit within 6' of warlord makes a wound roll of 6, add 1 to AP of attack

Sounds cool, but it's too narrow. Even if you cluster everything you can around your Warlord, that'll probably only get you a few extra -1s.

3) Add 6 to Advance instead of rolling dice.

Nice for repositioning, I guess? I'd rather reroll 1s to wound.

4) If warlord within 12' of enemy unit at start of shooting phase, you can reroll hits for your warlord until end of phase.

You can probably reroll hits for your Warlord anyway. Pass.

5) reroll hits for warlord, if they have not moved this turn. if they move for any reason, they lose the trait until the start of next turn.

Uh...does anyone ever NOT move their Warlord (i.e. Commander)? Pass.

6) warlord can advance and shoot as if he hasn't advanced.

Definitely a whole hell of a lot better than the advance bonus above. Probably the only other trait I'd consider over rerolling 1s to wound against monsters and vehicles.

Sept Warlord Traits
Tau : 5+ save against Mortal Wounds

FNP? Sounds cool enough, but our Warlord options aren't exactly tanks.

Vior'la : If warlord has master of war, Volley Fire or Failure is Not an Option ability, the range increased to 9". additionally, if your army is battleforged, +1 command pt

Definitely nice for Drone or FW spam. Who doesn't love bonus CP?

Dal'yth: While within 12" of Warlord, friendly Kroot and Vespid units gain For The Greater Good ability

Essentially useless.

Sa'cea: Friendly Sa'cea unit within 6" of warlord, reduce the number of model that flee as a result of morale by 1

Bork'an: For each hit roll made by warlord, +1 to wound for that hit

Yes. Awesome.

Farsight: Warlord can perform 6" heroic intervention. Additionally, if your warlord has charged , was charged or heroic intervened, until end of phase, can reroll hits.

Might be absolutely amazing for any army that isn't Tau. I'm not counting on getting combat abilities on any unit good enough to make this worthwhile.

Sept Traits:
Tau: Overwatch on a 5 regardless of firing model BS or any modifiers.

Oh good, rewards for castling. Have fun charging that. I think the usefulness may be tempered a bit by how much of our stuff has the FLY keyword, but this'll definitely halt a fair amount of drop charges. I'd call it a solid defensive option, but I prefer my defense to come in the form of more offense.

Vior'la : Treats all RF weapons as assault weapons (RF 1 treated as assault 1). Additionally, no penalty to advance and fire the assault weapons.

I think this is actually bad for most units with rapid fire weapons, assuming you lose your double tap at half range. We'll have to see the specifics, assuming these rumors are even real.

Dal'yth : Unit that does not manta strike, move, fall back, charge, pile in or consolidate this turn may claim the benefit of cover even while in the open.

It's uncommon for me to not move a unit, so this basically does nothing. Sacrificing mobility is rarely good.

Sa'cea: +1 LD, Additionally, in shooting phase, you can reroll a single failed hit roll for each Sa'cea unit

I feel like this kind of stacks with the copious rerolls of 1s to hit we have where most things you'd use to take advantage of this trait are concerned. That is, most big units with a low rate of fire are probably going to have a high BS, so 1s will be most or all of your misses. Potentially useful for things like railhead spam or multiple HRR Broadsides.

Bork'an : Add 6" to maximum range of any Rapid Fire and Heavy weapon they are armed with.

This stands out to me as the best sept trait by far. As noted above, Y'Vahras, Broadsides, and Fire Warriors benefit massively from this trait. Heavy weapon Pathfinders and even the FW Hammerhead options also get a big boost. Barracudas and fusion eradicators on the Ta'unar also come to mind.


Farsight: Reroll wounds of 1 against models that are within 6' of the firing (farsight) model.

Dude, don't be within 6" of your target.


Riptides: 250 for the HBC/SMS variant sounds okay-ish. It'd be better - useful, even - if that 18 shot, 2 dmg weapon we heard about was what the overcharged HBC looks like now. At a minimum of 280pts, IA in all its configurations is still complete crap. The IA itself needs a rework.



Gun Drones +4pts

Shield Drones +2

Marker Drones same.

Drones will still be useful. I don't think the gun and marker variants needed that significant of a hike, especially given the rumored changes to Savior Protocols, but meh. They're fairly costed.

Broadside -20 HRR -27 HYMP -16 SMS-5:

118pts base for the HRR/plasma variant? Yeah, I'll take that. I think the Borkan missileside will be pretty popular, though. 148pts for that volume of firepower augmented by an ATS is awesome. You extend their almost-enough range of 30/36" to a much more workable 36/42", too. I'm pumped one of my favorite models is useful again!

Skyray -19

Barring big changes to seeker missile mechanics, this is still one of the worst units in the game. Move along.

Hammerhead -17

Interesting. With sept bonuses plus Longstrike, these could be useful. I won't go as far as saying they're good just yet, but I'm hopeful. 190 for the twin plasma/ 2 SMS and 200pts for the twin HBC/2 SMS loadouts seem like the best bets. That's a whole lot of dakka hitting on 2+.

Per hikaru's most recent stream of rumors, Fire warriors look amazing. 7ppm for 36" pulse rifles. Wow.

CIB commanders got a big boost with 3 shots on overcharge.

HBC Riptides: definitely good.

Points hikes to aun'va and aunshi? Really?

Massively disappointed that crisis suits aren't changing in points.

No change to suits is very disappointing. My only guess is GW thinks you should only have 1 maybe 2 units of them as scalpels. Really would have liked BS 3+ on them if they are going to be that elite.

The change to all the ion overcharge is nice and adds a lot of reliability to them. I plan to be using all 3 of my ghostkeels now I think.

MilkmanAl wrote:
Per hikaru's most recent stream of rumors, Fire warriors look amazing. 7ppm for 36" pulse rifles. Wow.

CIB commanders got a big boost with 3 shots on overcharge.

HBC Riptides: definitely good.

Points hikes to aun'va and aunshi? Really?

Massively disappointed that crisis suits aren't changing in points.

Fire Warriors always looked good to me in 8th anyways. They are work horses.

ATT had a rumor posted that coldstars can take other guns now. I can't wait to try out fusions on a 40" move model. Don't even need manta strike

 Jancoran wrote:


Fire Warriors always looked good to me in 8th anyways. They are work horses.

Can't argue with that, but they were overshadowed by Gun Drones in spectacular fashion. With the points changes (and range changes - can't really see competitive lists using anything but Borkan), FW are a really great choice.

MilkmanAl wrote:
can't really see competitive lists using anything but Borkan

Indeed. If these are accurate, it is flat out better than any other sept trait and also has the best warlord trait. Seems GW wanted to make sure everybody was playing the T'au poster paint scheme.

For me, it is a mixed bag. Vior'la's sept trait gives more mobility with built in advance and fire without penalty, but changing rapid fire to assault potentially loses damage output at half range. The warlord trait is alright but Vior'la does not synergise with volley fire if we do actually lose a shot at half range.

Article up, confirming that the T'au sept stuff is true - which more or less confirms the other stuff as well. https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/03/05/tau-sept-hammerhead-gunships-breacher-teamsgw-homepage-post-3/

My take so far is that it'll probably now be possible to make a decent Tau list without resorting to commander and drone spam. My riptides look like they might be somewhat viable again, and in fact lots of stuff looks usable.

I'm not too sure about crisis suits, which is an issue. Loads of other stuff seems to have felt the love, but not them. Not sure why that is, but it seems odd to me. Cheaper burst cannons might make them a good dakka platform, but not much else seems to have changed. And it's weird they are making CIBs better, while still providing no model of them (other than on the commander). A squad of farsight guys with CIBs and +1 to hit when they drop in would be good - but a pain to construct.

Use reddogminis for ion blasters. They look great and have amazing quality.

http://www.reddogminis.com/catalog/item/9021373/10338245.htm

 FirePainter wrote:
Use reddogminis for ion blasters. They look great and have amazing quality.

http://www.reddogminis.com/catalog/item/9021373/10338245.htm

Those are nice. Unfortunately I quite often play at official GW events and they don't allow any 3rd party stuff to be used. I'd be stuck converting them out of ion rifles - or god knows what.

I actually wouldn't be at all surprised if they removed the option to take them on crisis suits in the new book. GW is turning against any kind of "kit bashing" options. Hopefully that won't be the case, but it's what I'd expect, based on past performance.

 FirePainter wrote:
Use reddogminis for ion blasters. They look great and have amazing quality.

http://www.reddogminis.com/catalog/item/9021373/10338245.htm

There's also some decent ones on Shapeways.
https://www.shapeways.com/product/A3RN829DU/cyclic-ion-blaster-bits-pack-of-4-6-9-10-13?optionId=63483110&li=marketplace

Those strats are disappointing. Focus fire's effect is good, but you'd better be taking down something huge for 3 CP. The Breacher one is just too narrow to be of regular use, but I guess it's nice to have in your pocket.

MilkmanAl wrote:
Those strats are disappointing. Focus fire's effect is good, but you'd better be taking down something huge for 3 CP. The Breacher one is just too narrow to be of regular use, but I guess it's nice to have in your pocket.

I agree even something like a baneblade is slightly less scary with the changes to seekers missiles and it's not like we should be shooting fire warriors at them either. Might be ok to try and guarantee a kill on Magnus or Morty turn 1.

Breacher strat is very situational but I could see it being used.

Not a tau player but assuming you have a Grand Strategist style CP farming trait or relic, 3 CP can be read as 0-3 CP.

Sometimes these "once per game I guess" abilities can be used 3 or 4 times.

Having +1 to wound on guns seems pretty legit to me for bringing down a big bad, or thinning out a poxwalker horde or whatever

The main issue really is going to be the points changes. That was always the main problem in the first place. Things like broadsides are coming down by so much that they might become good - or at least useful - regardless of stratagems.

And they do seem to have looked at making some of the guns significantly more powerful. The fire rate of the guns on ghostkeels, riptides and stormsurges has gone up, by a lot. Going from D6 to 6 shots for an overcharged cyclic ion raker is pretty serious, and gives a ghostkeel firepower comparable to a Leman Russ, on a platform that flies and is tricky to shoot at.

The cost of devilfish is coming down by a lot, to the point where the thing looks like a decent-ish gunship. Mech Tau could potentially become a thing again. Maybe.

Filling out a brigade will be very cheap, thanks to things like 35 point troop choices and drone/pathfinder units in fast attack. I actually quite like the idea of sniper drones if I can get focused fire on a target. They could do quite a lot of mortal wounds at range.

Overall I'm cautiously optimistic. I think I like the look of the T'au sept most, so far. But it remains to be seen what stratagems and stuff the other septs get. Punishing people who charge me seems like fun.

 Silentz wrote:
Not a tau player but assuming you have a Grand Strategist style CP farming trait or relic, 3 CP can be read as 0-3 CP.

Sometimes these "once per game I guess" abilities can be used 3 or 4 times.

Having +1 to wound on guns seems pretty legit to me for bringing down a big bad, or thinning out a poxwalker horde or whatever

Unknown on the relic but Tau don't have a CP recycling watloard trait in the leaked list, some of them seam very trash on what's been leaked but just have to wait and see what the final codex says.

There is the PEN from chapter approved.
Grants a CP on a 6+ each time either player uses a stratagem.

Also, extra CP from viorla trait, and a budget battalion is made in mere 189 points, and is actually useful.

Tau can stack CP if we want.
Not to IG levels, but we can stack.