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Made in us
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps






 Ideasweasel wrote:
Anyone still playing knights?

These new super buffed white scars look quite formidable. I’m not quite sure how to change my list to deal with the influx of marines but maybe going for 3 knights + 2 Guard Battalions is the way.

Try and screen them out as best I can. Do those among our number have plans to bring the big guys to any upcoming tournaments?


I am planning on switching to mono-dex Guard for a bit, I think it will be more competitive than Knights unfortunately.
   
Made in it
Perfect Shot Dark Angels Predator Pilot





Sesto San Giovanni, Italy

What do you think will work best for a Full Knight Match (Loyalist vs Renegade) around 3.000 points?

I've got one planned in a couple of week... I'll play Loyalist and, with 4 classic knight plus a Cerastus at my disposal, I was leaning towards a Lancer and a Gallant strong on defense (5++ in close combat) as baseline... but a I'm more used to play against random opponent rather then specific super-heavy lists.

I can't condone a place where abusers and abused are threated the same: it's destined to doom, so there is no reason to participate in it. 
   
Made in gb
Aspirant Tech-Adept






Hallo all. Hope everyone is well.

This chats a bit dead these days. Allow me to ‘darkest hour’ stratagem the thread!

I’ve been having a blast with Taranis knights flanked by Graia rusty 17 + 2 vostroyan punisher tank commanders with old grudges.

Absolutely brutal firepower. I know most people seem to love Krast but I swear by Taranis. It makes going second not utterly depressing lol. Been practising for an upcoming tournament and it’s done well so far.

Anyone got any knight related tournaments on the horizon or stories to share?
   
Made in us
Oozing Plague Marine Terminator





I've been working the last tireless week magnetizing a Castellan, two Crusaders, and two Armigers. I hope to get everything primed this week, to prepare for a Tournament in October.

Graia is the go to for their Deny stratagem correct?

Next up on my project list are the Rangers.
   
Made in gb
Aspirant Tech-Adept






Yes, the deny stratagem has saved my bacon a few times. When you deny a Doom it’s great
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




I know mono knights have been in a bad place since the FW Knights got gutted cheers Choas.

But with the new Ravenguard +1 to hit and +1 to wound against charictors do even soup lists still have a place for knights?

I don't want to oversell this but I can't see how anyone can justify the point's knights cost given how many poor matchups they now have.
   
Made in gb
Proud Triarch Praetorian





Maybe just take them as a household of 3 with an infantry-heavy force?

Like IG & AdMech find them amazing.

I can see the "take one as your warlord bc 4++" is going to disappear, but I would rather spend the CP to Exalted Court a single support Knight to give him that WLT rather than make him Warlord regardless.....

Experience is something you get just after you need it
The Narkos Dynasty - 15k
Iron Hands - 12k
The Shadewatch - 3k
Cadmus Outriders - 4k
Alpha Legion Raiders - 3k  
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 IHateNids wrote:
Maybe just take them as a household of 3 with an infantry-heavy force?

Like IG & AdMech find them amazing.

I can see the "take one as your warlord bc 4++" is going to disappear, but I would rather spend the CP to Exalted Court a single support Knight to give him that WLT rather than make him Warlord regardless.....

I have 5k point of marine's if I want to play infantry and 2.5k of tau if I want to play gunline, I have parked my knight's already as I played them mono anyway, no codex should require another codex to be playable.

It more that 4++ crusader is now going to be taking wounds on a 5+ minimum and 2+ vrs lascannons etc. Not to mention the MW that sniper scouts and eliminators will be putting in.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/11 12:42:25


 
   
Made in gb
Aspirant Tech-Adept






The thing that made me soup was ironically the reaction to soup in the first place.

The Taranis stratagem going up to 3CP after a tournament has a soup list using guard CP farm and an almost unlimited number of get back up Gallants in a streamed tournament

Not long after the nerf was made. 3CP for a chance to do something is just not viable in a mono codex. It actually encouraged me to soup just to be able to afford to do the ability

I would actually prefer they offered a soup cost or mono discount for factions like custodes/knights that can’t spam CP as easily. Make it so your rewarded for staying in 1 book rather than short changing yourself.

Knights do seem like they are in a worrying spot but maybe knights 2.0 might come and address some of the issues. A 5++ melee inv as standard would be nice since the world and his dog can now one shot a knight with all these new flavours of smash captains
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Ideasweasel wrote:
The thing that made me soup was ironically the reaction to soup in the first place.

The Taranis stratagem going up to 3CP after a tournament has a soup list using guard CP farm and an almost unlimited number of get back up Gallants in a streamed tournament

Not long after the nerf was made. 3CP for a chance to do something is just not viable in a mono codex. It actually encouraged me to soup just to be able to afford to do the ability

I would actually prefer they offered a soup cost or mono discount for factions like custodes/knights that can’t spam CP as easily. Make it so your rewarded for staying in 1 book rather than short changing yourself.

Knights do seem like they are in a worrying spot but maybe knights 2.0 might come and address some of the issues. A 5++ melee inv as standard would be nice since the world and his dog can now one shot a knight with all these new flavours of smash captains

I loved my Styrix for that it was hilarious watching the reactions of wait he has a what? You gave him a relic right? But thanks to choas even the FW Knights got gutted.
   
Made in gb
Aspirant Tech-Adept






The forgeworld nerfs were so heavy handed. I really feel for anyone who bought a porphyrion. It was stupid to alter the stats in the way that they did.

GW sometimes make really good measured adjustments and then other times they throw the baby out with the bathwater

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/11 17:38:01


 
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer



London

Most FW knights did get gutted, it’s true. I find myself in possession of a castigator though, and that feels like one of the lucky ones. I think it’s a decent pick now.

I’m taking a knight + rusty 17 list to the LGT this weekend. List is:

Taranis lance:
Crusader with TC and ironstorm (warlord)
Warden with fist, ironstorm and melta (had 12 points spare)
Castigator

Super-heavy aux of one Krastsader with RFBC and Icarus autocannons

Graia rusty 17

First game is against chaos with 60 plaguebearers, a few nurglings and bloodletters, and a ton of characters - who presumably intend to smite me a lot. This includes the new Slaanesh mirror thing that forces a morale check on 3d6 to fall back, which is sneaky. I don’t expect that’ll be too much fun but I have a reasonable amount of dakka so I have a chance.
   
Made in us
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps






So... Knights vs Iron Hands is just auto-lose, right?

Avenger Cannons going to 1 damage each because they have that -1 damage aura relic seems like it almost certainly negates the ability of Knights to deal with Dreadnoughts, Predator, and Repulsors from range.

Then they all have D6 damage weapons that hit on like a 2+ or re-roll 1's to hit, so we just eat a ton of damage and get vaporized, right? My two armies are Knights and Guard, and I don't see a way for either of them to beat Iron Hands when they can easily negate almost all ranged anti-tank from both of those armies.
   
Made in gb
Aspirant Tech-Adept






@horst. It looks bad

I’m hoping that there won’t be a massive influx of iron hands players and you might face a mix of different chapters in a tournament

I guess the game plan against iron hands would just have to be balls to the walls aggressive and ensure you are using shooting and fight phases as best you can. First turn might give you a chance.

I can play no other house than Taranis due to the amount of times someone is able to drop a knight turn 1.

I’m currently having fun with a Mortan crusader and 2 Taranis knights + warden + Graia Batallion

No screen to speak of but i just go super aggressive and hope for the best
   
Made in us
Oozing Plague Marine Terminator





Seems like more and more units (that are Space Marines) get Ignores Overwatch abilities.

Many other chapters will try their own Smash Captain equivalents to "kill a Knight a turn".
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer



London

Just went 5:0 at the LGT with my knights and rusty 17. Quite happy with that.

I think my formula of 3 Taranis knights and a Krast Crusader is decent. The Krast Guy is just brutal against other knights and the reroll 1s warlord trait is also great. If the enemy don’t have vehicles you can just take endless fury.

I was pretty happy with my Castigator too. The extra speed is nice and I realised in my last game (against other knights) that blessed by the sacristans is actually pretty good on his 16-shot gun. He sends out 2-3 mortal wounds a turn on average, but sometimes more. And his melee weapon is actually useable. It feels like a very decent unit for 430 points.
   
Made in gb
Aspirant Tech-Adept






@mandragola

Well done! I toyed with a Graia Batallion, 3 Taranis, 1 Mortan to deal with modifiers

I do wonder how useful it is against hordes. What armies did you face? Overall experience of the LGT pretty good?
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer



London

Yeah Mortan would be interesting too. Having a questor Imperialis guy would also give you some options.

I could link my opponents’ lists if I was a bit less tired. I had some extremely close games, and a couple that were less close.

First was against chaos. Two battalions with 60 plaguebearers, 22 bloodletters and 9 nurglings. Also 3 DPs (2 tzeench and 1 khorne), Ahriman and the new slaanesh mirror thing. I spent two turns killing hardly any plaguebearers but then got to kill the mirror with my warden - it heroically intervened into some plague bearers then fell back over them to get to the mirror and characters behind. Eventually got a 22:20 win, coming from behind.

Game two was against all-nurgle chaos that was not all that dangerous to knights. Zombies instead of plaguebearers with Typhus. Again he was able to swamp the board pretty hard early on and build a lead, but I killed almost everything in the end. Krast knight had a field day against bloat drones. 25:18 win.

Game 3 was against Tau. Opponent game me turn 1, which was a trap, and I walked straight into it. He killed my Castigator and warden as they foolishly tried to get into melee. But my crusaders eventually killed him after the drones ran out. Finished 21:20 - extremely close. In future I think I’d win this by more to be honest.

Game 4 was my first game ever against GSC. Actually turned out to be a really odd one. It was end to end deployment and I was able to screen off my knights completely. The result was that when my opponent’s army had to all deploy at the beginning of turn 3, he couldn’t put his scary stuff anywhere near my knights. I was quite happy to not be in melee with a unit of 10 Aberrants with big hammers. Lots of shooting followed and I won 36:16.

Final game was against other knights. 3 Taranis crusaders, all with TC and ironstorm. Then he had an ultramarines spearhead of chronic in a whirlwind and 3 TFCs and a Graia rusty 17. I went first, he put all his knights in a corner and I blazed away at him. Did a respectable amount of damage in turn 1, though I didn’t drop a knight. Eventually tabled him and won 32:18. By putting all his knights in the corner, he allowed mine to run all over the place and stamp on everything else.

So yeah, a good result all round. I haven’t played much ITC stuff. Finally finished 9th out of 376 people who showed up, which I’m very happy with. I did have the lowest score of anyone with 5 wins, which I think I could do better on in future. I haven’t done much ITC stuff so my scoring wasn’t always on point.

The event itself was good. Compared to last year’s it was a different story entirely. Tables were properly painted (albeit identical) and the venue was quite nice, in a massive sports hall. Space, light and air were all present - unlike last time. Food service was slow but people did get fed. Overall the event was a big success and I’m looking forward to next year’s.
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

What do you all think of this list idea? I'm thinking of taking it to a local GT in November, if I can get everything I need painted in time. Here's the list:
Spoiler:
Super-heavy Detachment: Imperial Knights (House Krast)
Knight Crusader: RFBC, Endless Fury, Ironstorm Pod, Ion Bulwark (using strats to get warlord trait and relic)
Knight Crusader: Thermal Cannon, Ironstorm Pod
Knight Gallant
Super-heavy Auxiliary Detachment: Space Marines
Roboute Guilliman (Warlord)
Battalion Detachment: Astra Militarum (Cadian)
Company Commander
Company Commander
3x Infantry Squad
2x Heavy Weapons Team: Mortars

85 points free for an Assassin

Not 100% decided on which House I want for my Knights, but I've heard good things about Krast. I'm also considering Taranis or even perhaps Raven.

My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/1/23, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~15000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: ~1900 | Imperial Knights: ~2000 | Sisters of Battle: ~3500 | Leagues of Votann: ~1200 | Tyranids: ~2600 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2023: 40 | Total models painted in 2024: 7 | Current main painting project: Dark Angels
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in gb
Aspirant Tech-Adept






It’s an interesting list

I’m not sure about Gman and how useful he will be in this list though.

In terms of knight houses I tend to play Taranis, Krast, Raven, and Hawkshroud. It comes down to play style but Krast is a strong and reliable whilst being cheaper in CP costs. Taranis is very good but you do need to funnel a lot of CP into it for its effectiveness to show. 8-12 can easily disappear before you know it. I haven’t used Raven in a while but other than buffing the Castellan it’s fun having mobile fast crusaders able to advance and shoot. Hawkshroud is very new player friendly and also makes the valiant be a competitive unit with stratagems.

   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer



London

Right now I think the general approach is to take Taranis if you’ve got 3+ knights or Krast if you only have one.

The reason to take Krast is so as to have access to their relic and warlord trait, both of which are really fantastic. You should give a Krast Crusader a RFBC, not a thermal cannon (because you want to maximise shots), and the hunter’s mark relic. Against other knights the avenger will do 4 damage, the RFBC D3+2 and even the stubbers will do 3! Then if you come against hordes with no vehicles you can give him endless fury instead or save your CPs and not give him a relic. He’s still the best guy to have endless fury, thanks to the rerolls to hit.

Personally I wouldn’t take either Guilliman or the gallant. I think that knights are a shooting army, so I make sure that all of mine have guns, even if it’s just one avenger gatling cannon and an ironstorm pod. A Gallant is forced to charge at things, which isn’t always the best option. And likewise Guilliman doesn’t bring any meaningful firepower of his own, though he does give out some rerolls and is a good beatstick. I’d much rather have a 4th knight spitting bullets out than a cheerleader for 3 of them.

There are quite a lot of people who talk about the gallant as a “distraction carnifex” type unit, but personally I don’t think this works well in practice. It’s true that you force your opponent to kill the gallant by rushing them, but you also make it easy to kill by putting it close to them. This allows your opponent to focus more of their army on one target and also to do lots more smites, fire more rapid fire weapons and things like meltas, plus of course charge the thing if they want. It all adds up to a knight dying much faster and more easily than if it was far away.

And on the flipside, anyone who’s scared of close combat with a knight is scared of it with any knight. A Crusader jumping up and down on something like Tau or IG will still get the job done, so there’s really no need for the Gallant’s better stats – most of the time.

So my approach is to have four knights, all of which can shoot and fight if needed. Spread the firepower around so that I have a lot of T8 wounds for my opponent to get through, none of which come easy. And all of them will hurt things, every turn of the game.

For your CP battery the best approach is almost certainly the Graia rusty 17, rather than the IG. You get a number of benefits from this. Canticles and the knight of the cog strat let you give a bonus to a knight, if you like. They also have a stratagem to deny the witch on a 4+ dice roll, which can be a life saver against things like doom from Eldar or Mind control from GSC. This does mean losing the IG mortars though, so you should try and have as many ironstorm missile pods as possible.
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

Thanks for the advice guys! I probably should have mentioned that I don't own any AdMech stuff and I don't have a third Gatling cannon to run a third Crusader, hence why I put a Gallant in there. I could, however, replace Gman with a pair of Armiger Helverins, which I do have. I'm well aware of the benefits of the Graia Rusty 17, so possibly I could pick up some Skitarii and a couple of Enginseers.

My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/1/23, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~15000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: ~1900 | Imperial Knights: ~2000 | Sisters of Battle: ~3500 | Leagues of Votann: ~1200 | Tyranids: ~2600 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2023: 40 | Total models painted in 2024: 7 | Current main painting project: Dark Angels
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in gb
Aspirant Tech-Adept






Did you Magnetise the arm joints of your knights?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/17 16:15:45


 
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer



London

Sorry, I didn’t factor in whether you actually had the models or not. I play in a lot of tournaments and routinely buy and paint up a lot of models for them, but I shouldn’t assume everyone can do that.

I’d still recommend trying to get hold of a rusty 17 and maybe seeing if you can get another gatling gun somewhere. I found the Skitarii very quick to paint (metal spray, red coats, wash, details) but I spent a while converting up my tech priests. GW actually sells the old finecast techpriest still, for a fair bit less than the plastic one.
   
Made in us
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps






Mandragola wrote:
Sorry, I didn’t factor in whether you actually had the models or not. I play in a lot of tournaments and routinely buy and paint up a lot of models for them, but I shouldn’t assume everyone can do that.

I’d still recommend trying to get hold of a rusty 17 and maybe seeing if you can get another gatling gun somewhere. I found the Skitarii very quick to paint (metal spray, red coats, wash, details) but I spent a while converting up my tech priests. GW actually sells the old finecast techpriest still, for a fair bit less than the plastic one.


This guy https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Imperial-Guard-Techpriest-Enginseer-2 is still metal, at least he was when I bought one a few months ago. Cheaper than the other techpriest, and he looks fine IMO.
   
Made in gb
Aspirant Tech-Adept






I’m not giving up on knights yet. My list might change a bit though

The question is to what.

@horst. How goes the swap over to guard. Are you still tinkering with Krast?
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Mandragola wrote:
Game 4 was my first game ever against GSC. Actually turned out to be a really odd one. It was end to end deployment and I was able to screen off my knights completely. The result was that when my opponent’s army had to all deploy at the beginning of turn 3, he couldn’t put his scary stuff anywhere near my knights. I was quite happy to not be in melee with a unit of 10 Aberrants with big hammers. Lots of shooting followed and I won 36:16.


What method did you use to screen out the GSC? I haven't played them yet, but it looks like it would be a nightmare to screen them with 17 guys when they can pop in at 3'.
   
Made in us
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps






 Ideasweasel wrote:
I’m not giving up on knights yet. My list might change a bit though

The question is to what.

@horst. How goes the swap over to guard. Are you still tinkering with Krast?


I'm still teetering on the edge of which army to bring to events. I think triple crusader / 2 tank commander is still very powerful, but on the other hand, when it gets a bad matchup it loses HARD. When it gets a good matchup it wins really easily though. Guard will always have options and will never die super easily, but overall every game will be harder.

I feel like if I play Knights, I'll be guaranteed a good finish but probably not win overall, and if I play Guard I have a shot at winning overall but am more likely to place worse. :-/
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer



London

bmsattler wrote:
Mandragola wrote:
Game 4 was my first game ever against GSC. Actually turned out to be a really odd one. It was end to end deployment and I was able to screen off my knights completely. The result was that when my opponent’s army had to all deploy at the beginning of turn 3, he couldn’t put his scary stuff anywhere near my knights. I was quite happy to not be in melee with a unit of 10 Aberrants with big hammers. Lots of shooting followed and I won 36:16.


What method did you use to screen out the GSC? I haven't played them yet, but it looks like it would be a nightmare to screen them with 17 guys when they can pop in at 3'.


I had models spread all over. He actually could have deployed a unit 3" away, with the Lying in Wait strat, but when you do that you can't charge that turn with that unit.

I think he could have used that on his unit of 17 guys with hand flamers, then used another 3CPs to make them fire straight away, roasting my screens. That would have allowed him to deploy his aberrants within 9" of one of my knights. I'm not sure why he didn't at least try that - my guess is he was just feeling too ill to play on. The guy really looked like death - I had to help him stand up when we went to give in our results.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




I did not know that Lying in Wait didn't allow charging after. Thanks for the reply, that helps me out. I hope your opponent is doing better!
   
 
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