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 RustyNumber wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:
If I received any correspondence requesting sensible details etc from something happened more than a decade ago I would send it to spam and block it.

A five second search would turn up the WGA article and confirm it as legit.

.

Yes and that would then take to read the wall of copy from Tony skewed views... and just because after a decade of deception later he seen the light I should just believe him blindly correct?


You trust whatever you want online, like I said in the opening of my post.

Ultimately, unless you* actually lost money and hold a grudge (totally valid), what does it matter what Tony was before? WGA is a successful, reliable company with a hundred tools under their belt, doing uniquely zany things like shipping tools back and forth across the ocean so they can sell on both sides without tariffs. There's no danger they'll run to the Maldives with another 45k of undelivered kickstarter money. Unless you were personally harmed, you're deep in the drama for the sake of drama territory.

*general you, not NAVARRO

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Ultimately, unless you* actually lost money and hold a grudge (totally valid), what does it matter what Tony was before? WGA is a successful, reliable company with a hundred tools under their belt, doing uniquely zany things like shipping tools back and forth across the ocean so they can sell on both sides without tariffs. There's no danger they'll run to the Maldives with another 45k of undelivered kickstarter money. Unless you were personally harmed, you're deep in the drama for the sake of drama territory.

*general you, not NAVARRO

Load of malarkey mate. Everyone is totally free to do business to whoever they want for the reasons they want and yes background does mater.

"The founder maybe lied 15 years ago" is a pretty high standard. I would propose that people who have that as their cutoff point for doing business cannot function in today's society. They certainly would not have access to the internet, fuel, supermarket food...

 lord_blackfang wrote:
"The founder maybe lied 15 years ago" is a pretty high standard. I would propose that people who have that as their cutoff point for doing business cannot function in today's society. They certainly would not have access to the internet, fuel, supermarket food...

I would propose you read things for what they are and stop talking gibberish

Interesting news / timing given where we are with the Damned...

On that note, anyone in the US actually received anything yet? For all the talk of shipping, it doesn't seem like anyone has the models in hand yet still.

I certainly won't be buying anything more from WGA until I've got the Damned in my mitts now anyway.

He might be making amends with the Defiance kickstarter, but wasn't he involved in the Torn Armor kickstarter, whose miniatures were never delivered? They wrote about suing to get their money back, but said that the company who had been making them had declared bankruptcy.

If he was involved in that, what amends will he be making to the backers of that kickstarter, or that company?

As for the Power Suits, those designs were bought from the creator by Impact! Miniatures. So I have no idea what in the world is going to happen there.

https://impact-miniatures.myshopify.com/products/hardsuit-50mm-power-armor-set-of-4-with-multiple-accessories?_pos=2&_sid=2ffb360ad&_ss=r

Edit: This news makes this page funnier knowing what we know now, with what has been posted there, heh.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Ultimately, unless you* actually lost money and hold a grudge (totally valid), what does it matter what Tony was before? WGA is a successful, reliable company with a hundred tools under their belt, doing uniquely zany things like shipping tools back and forth across the ocean so they can sell on both sides without tariffs. There's no danger they'll run to the Maldives with another 45k of undelivered kickstarter money. Unless you were personally harmed, you're deep in the drama for the sake of drama territory.

I can expect improvements when people learn from their mistakes. Tony's letter doesn't inspire confidence of having learned a lot. The whole posting of the letter seems to be about showing off some supposed long-running reliability and a redemption arc. More humility and less pointing fingers and self-aggrandizing talk would have made me a lot more forgiving than I find myself being now. The ongoing Damned crowdfunding delivery that's 1.5 years behind schedule and counting doesn't inspire confidence either.

And neither does this message from North Star's Nick over at LAF https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=150938.msg1939764#msg1939764 :

North Star have been a distributor of WA from day 1. On day 1 (and other occasions) I asked 'are you Tony Reidy?' I still have the email replies where he said no. What do you do? Accuse someone of being a liar based on quite convincing circumstantial evidence, or take them at their word?

 lord_blackfang wrote:
What do you mean, why bother? Even non gamers go nuts for those not-machinen-krieger eggsuits.

seriously, this. I was in Japan earlier in the year, and in Osaka at least those kind of kits are even giving Gundam a run for their money on who's got the most shelf space.

 Gomezaddams wrote:

Now Wargames Factory didn't disappear. Far from it. They produce all of GWs terrain... and Tonys statement isn't exactly subtle with its accusations - far better then other statements hes done over the years, but... someone really should have been a critical friend on his comms.

I hadn't heard about it. So is Wargames Factory the company doing all this, or are we saying that Wargames factory was absorbed by the Chinese plastics company that was producing their product and now produces GW terrain and other well known lines?

 Eilif wrote:

 Gomezaddams wrote:

Now Wargames Factory didn't disappear. Far from it. They produce all of GWs terrain... and Tonys statement isn't exactly subtle with its accusations - far better then other statements hes done over the years, but... someone really should have been a critical friend on his comms.

I hadn't heard about it. So is Wargames Factory the company doing all this, or are we saying that Wargames factory was absorbed by the Chinese plastics company that was producing their product and now produces GW terrain and other well known lines?

I believe the second one. The Chinese maker got out of the business of making and marketing kits and now produces stuff for other companies.

Piousservant wrote:

Interesting news / timing given where we are with the Damned...

On that note, anyone in the US actually received anything yet? For all the talk of shipping, it doesn't seem like anyone has the models in hand yet still.

Hopefully there will be some updates in this week's WGA email. I would be worried about how long the "shipping soon" notice is taking if I hadn't just gone through the same thing with the latest Battletech KS.

 Fenriswulf wrote:
https://impact-miniatures.myshopify.com/products/hardsuit-50mm-power-armor-set-of-4-with-multiple-accessories?_pos=2&_sid=2ffb360ad&_ss=r

Ooh, thanks for the reminder, now that I have a printer, this is awesome news.

I find this whole thing fascinating. Normally when there seems to be a grey area in morality, it's because of conflict between two ideals or two people's rights. Here, it's simply that this guy seems very willing to lie and mislead, but for a very benign goal: making HIPS miniatures.

So, we have some shady means leading to quite positive ends. An interesting prism for anybody's ethics, I suppose.

For us as consumers though, to quote the philosopher Bert Cooper: "who cares?" The product is on the shelf. Buying it is not notably more or less ethical than any other purchase you could make. I'm not sure I'd invest any money into a business he ran, and I would definitely grab the popcorn if WGA ever did another crowdfunding campaign. But I'll buy their stuff without a second thought.

I haven't done any crowdfunding since the Kickstarter gold rush years, and back then, being a year or more delayed on a huge project was the norm. Maybe things have changed and operations have gotten more professional, but if anything, I wonder if the timing of this announcement, as shipments began going out, was not a coincidence.

I’m still in on two Kickstarters that will almost certainly be years late. One is the Shadows of Brimstone KS which has run into tariff limbo. The other is the Dropfleet 28mm Strikezone Commander, which heavily involves Wargames Atlantic since they make all the new plastics for Dropfleet Commander.

But yeah, a delay of a few years for a kickstarter is normal. Wake me up when Kingdom Death starts delivering the next wave of their ongoing catastrophe.

Just got my store credit from Wargames Atlantic and ordered a set of Lizardmen for my Kings of War army and a set of Spacenam to use as proxy for Imperial Guard.

If I hadn't recently picked up a dwarf army for Warmaster I'd have picked up a set of their 10mm dwarfs instead perhaps.

 mattl wrote:
Just got my store credit from Wargames Atlantic and ordered a set of Lizardmen for my Kings of War army and a set of Spacenam to use as proxy for Imperial Guard.

If I hadn't recently picked up a dwarf army for Warmaster I'd have picked up a set of their 10mm dwarfs instead perhaps.

That's great news!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I’m still in on two Kickstarters that will almost certainly be years late. One is the Shadows of Brimstone KS which has run into tariff limbo. The other is the Dropfleet 28mm Strikezone Commander, which heavily involves Wargames Atlantic since they make all the new plastics for Dropfleet Commander.

But yeah, a delay of a few years for a kickstarter is normal. Wake me up when Kingdom Death starts delivering the next wave of their ongoing catastrophe.

I deliberately don't follow updates or have any expectation for the timeline of things I support via crowdfunding. I certainly don't use the suggested fulfillment date as anything I'll be able to count on for a given project. I only support companies I reasonably expect to deliver (and so far they all have) but once I've pledged, I let myself forget about it.

Makes it even sweeter when a nearly-forgotten pledge shows up at my door a year or so after it's suggested delivery date. I'm sure I'll be pleased when the Damned show up, but I have no idea when that will be or should have been.

 mattl wrote:
Just got my store credit from Wargames Atlantic and ordered a set of Lizardmen for my Kings of War army and a set of Spacenam to use as proxy for Imperial Guard.

Store credit for the Defiance Games KS or...?

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 mattl wrote:
Just got my store credit from Wargames Atlantic and ordered a set of Lizardmen for my Kings of War army and a set of Spacenam to use as proxy for Imperial Guard.

Store credit for the Defiance Games KS or...?

Yep.

Excellent to see WGA is immediately following through on that promise!

https://wargamesatlantic.com/blogs/news/updates-on-molds-damned-shipping-and-more

Kickstarter Refunds

To that end we've also - as of tonight when I'm writing this - received about 90 requests for refunds from the Kickstarter backers. I'm building out a spreadsheet (as Kickstarter's data is now closed out and unable to be downloaded as a spreadsheet) and have started the process of sending Paypals, wires, and site credits. Please do spread the word so we can reach all the backers and we'll continue to post within Kickstarter to generate emails from there too.

 Polonius wrote:
I find this whole thing fascinating. Normally when there seems to be a grey area in morality, it's because of conflict between two ideals or two people's rights. Here, it's simply that this guy seems very willing to lie and mislead, but for a very benign goal: making HIPS miniatures.

So, we have some shady means leading to quite positive ends. An interesting prism for anybody's ethics, I suppose.

If you're willing to believe his side of the story and ignore the various business partners and contractors that allege he either took money from them without delivering promised services or took services from them without delivering promised money, and customers whose money was taken without delivering the purchased goods, then sure, no harm was done, all very morally grey.

Now, I haven't read even a percentage of all the problematic business dealings related to Reidy/Wargames Factory/Defiance Games and Troll Forged Miniatures/Torn Armor/whatever else is out there, but I find it difficult to believe that it would be a coincidence that the one consistent factor in all these failures is Tony Reidy. Sure, he didn't apparently take the money and run (well, not the last part at least), but he did leave others out of pocket or led them to go out of business when he set up new companies under a different business and personal name, apparently finally succeeding for the time being as Wargames Atlantic.

 Eilif wrote:

I wonder also if Ken of Proxie Models will be made whole or if that was more the post-Tony Defiance's responsibility.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/558217.page#6159409

Ken posted a comment about it on the Proxie Models FB page.

https://www.facebook.com/proxiemodels

If you followed my ancient blog and have been around for years you may remember my interactions with Defiance Games.
I was paid a long time ago but did not want to deal with them again. So they owe me nothing and I have no ill will towards them.
The old leader of Defiance has revealed himself to be the leader of Wargames Atlantic. I suspected this a long time ago and asked but it was denied.
Very curious. I have some halflings and plan to buy some Spanish for my Oldhammer collection.
It is a strange flashback to a very difficult time and some lessons learned. I have some people who will never speak to me again from that mess. But the past is the past and I am blessed with a worsening memory.
Good luck to Wargames Atlantic. Judging from online comments the gaming community is a forgiving bunch with good natured attitudes.

Im surprised people are surprised by this revelation. WGA and Defiance used the same artists and sculptors, very similar marketing and branding, website design, packaging, etc. It was obvious there were strong through-lines from the get-go, and the vociferous denials -now in fact revealed to be direct *LIES* - of association or connection between the comlanies were dead giveaways.

SU-152 wrote:
WGA is the only producer of 10mm plastic miniatures (and if GW's BoFA never existed all that time ago, WGA would be the only EVER producer).They got me there. So I do not care who's behind all.

This isnt even remotely true. Armoured Clash from Warcradle, Epic Warpath from Mantic, Dropzone Commamder from TTC, and Epic from Warlord are all plastic 10mm.

Wait. Are these the same people who brought us the vikings that Warlord Games sells?

Most of the original Wargames Factory miniatures are currently sold through Warlord, yes.

 insaniak wrote:
Most of the original Wargames Factory miniatures are currently sold through Warlord, yes.

...but not the Shock Troops

My Damned just shipped!!!!

Meanwhile, I don't expect Kevin Siembieda and Palladium Books to do anything at all about the Robotech KS, and they didn't even hide themselves, bankrupt themselves or anything like that...

...so yeah

Shame about those millions of dollars of undelivered kickstarters from CMON, Mythic, etc. too.