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Frazzled wrote:Your refusal to answer the question is interesting. You don't know do you?
OMG you are like so clever you almost got me.
Frazzled wrote:I respect Ozzy's and redbeard's statements, but frankly you've consistently attacked those who have doubts about the film.
You'd make a great political pundit like Ann Coulter, Rush Limbuagh, or Michael Moore. Disagreeing with you and refusing to put up with your shenanigans isn't an attack. They haven't said anything really any different then I have, you just don't like my tone and I couldn't care less.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
On the women issue: Two of my female friends who read the graphic novel, and aren't really into comics, said they weren't happy with Silk Spectre as she was written. I can see where they're coming from, but at the same time, I don't think the male characters were all flawless or heroic either- far from it.
Fraz: From my experiences of you, I reckon you might not enjoy watchmen, especially if you have anything but a completely open mind going in. Might be a waste of your money for a film that would just annoy you. 12 people walked out when I was watching it, and that's very rare. (Up until that film I'd only ever seen 2 or 3 walk outs)
I did enjoy it a lot though, and I think the comic is well worth reading.
Like others have said, it’s a deconstruction of comic books. As such, it takes the tropes of the genre, superheroes and supervillains in outlandish costumes, crime and punishment, ludicrous bases in exotic locations, fantastical powers… and places them in a more realistic setting, and then examines how those tropes would work in that new context.
So, they wear superhero costumes. And it examines exactly how people wearing these costumes might really operate. So it looks at the highly sexual nature of dressing up in skin tight outfits. It examines the cult of celebrity.
The attempted rape looks at the trope of crime and punishment. In any other comic book, the rape would likely be dealt with someone swearing vengeance, a climactic battle and the Comedian falling off a cliff onto some spikes, or something. All very cathartic and ridiculous. But in Watchmen, they instead compromise, let the Comedian get away with what he did. Years later, the Silk Spectre, who is pretty damn messed up, sleeps with her attempted rapist. Her daughter finds this all awful, and reacts like other people are reacting when they hear this.
But that’s the point. Life is full of decisions, we make ours and move on. The black and white morality of traditional comic books isn’t just simplistic, but absolutely impossible to apply to the real world.
Because it’s a really interesting book with a lot of interesting levels to it. Read the comic, watch the movie, or don’t, I don’t really care. But just reading off-hand comments, or hearing that there’s an attempted rape in the film that doesn’t end with a nice piece of revenge porn, and deciding the film must be terrible or obviously written by an ignorant man… that’s ridiculous.
Perhaps not as ridiculous as walking out on a movie 15 minutes in because a film called Slumdog Millionaire showed people living in slums.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
One thing to point out is that the second Silk Spectre even comments on her outfit as being ridiculous, and how she only wore it because her mother made her. In fact, pages of text are dedicated, in character, to heroes attempting to explain why they would even consider wearing such ludicrous costumes in the first place. So, the reason the book is deep isn't because the costumes are realistic, but rather because the characters have the same qualms about it as we do.
The point of watchmen is that Superheroes aren't actually better people, just people that for whatever reason dedicate themselves to vigilantism while costumed. It's an insane pasttime, and the book and movie both explore what makes these people tick, and how they're all incredibly flawed and broken.
In fact, I think the extreme gore and violence of the movie had the same point as well: kicking bad guys and beating them has ramifications, something that a lot of superhero comics and movies tend to gloss over.
to tie these two points together, there is a scene in which two characters talk about a criminal that pretended to be a super villian because he enjoyed being beaten up, and the two discuss how they were annoyed by this guy. One asks whatever happened to him, and the response is that he tried his shtick on Rorschach, who promptly threw him down an elevator shaft. They then both laugh. At another human beings murder (or attempted murder). They realize they shouldn't laugh, but still do. That's the scene where everybody falls in love with the comic, either because Rorschach is so awesome, or because they realize that they're not in a sanitized Justice League knock off.
As for the Marketing, I think it the trailers and posters sold the "superhero" part pretty heavily, and I think a casual observer would think it's just another comic book adaptation. Now, it's hard to distill "a fascinating deconstruction of the myth of superheros in the context of cold war era America" into a tagline, but I can see how folks would be... confused. That said, the MPAA now includes not only ratings, but an explanation of what the ratings mean. If "Strong graphic violence, nudity, sexuality, and language" don't' tip you off, well, than I'm not sure what else they can do in Green Screen trailers.
Polonius wrote: If "Strong graphic violence, nudity, sexuality, and language" don't' tip you off, well, than I'm not sure what else they can do in Green Screen trailers.
You know I never really paid that much attention to the "fine print" on those green screen trailers. Usually just to whether it was R,PG-13 or PG. But Watchmen has changed that for me.
THing is, I feel the gore is central to the theme of deconstructing the Superhero Mythos.
Spoiler:
Particularly the alley fight. They go from a couple of friends enjoying a late night stroll, and instantly snap into violent retribution when faced with an attempted mugging.
Consider X-Men 2, and the main reason I loved that film. The violence. Whilst not exactly explicit and goresoaked, when Wolverine starts laying into the Troops attacking the mansion, I was heartened that his claws came into play, and the fact that he was doing real damage.
Same with Watchmen. They aren't already dead, because they are extremely vicious fighters. Rather than fighting to knock out, they are quite happy to shatter bones, break necks, snap ribs etc to put the bad guy down. And who is to say whether or not the bad guys didn't deserve it? Is it any less than they were planning? Probably not. They use knives and guns to intimidate people, whereas generally the Watchmen stick to fists and feet (not to mention the occasional forehead) to get things done. Thus, in context, the Watchmen are being pretty well constrained, most of the time.
So compound fractures are seen, rather than implied. So what? It is important to the theme. Like Ichi The Killer (an interesting foray into Sado Masochism for those who haven't seen it) in the context of the film, it is right that we see this. I'm bored to tears of the effects of having the crap kicked out of you not shown!
Then we have The Comedian. It seems he wasn't that pleasent a guy to begin with, but after Vietnam, he is markedly changed by his experience. And I think that echoes well with the Vietnam Veterans. They were over there doing their job. They were told that their actions were in defence of Global Democracy. And when they returned, it was to an ungrateful voice. Remember, a lot of Soldiers in Vietnam were drafted (Another word for Conscripts) into the army. They were told to fight, and they did. They were told to die. And they did. The Political schemings that lead to the war were not their own. You can no more blame a drafted soldier for his part than you can blame the gun that shot someone. They were wielded by another. Their force was directed for them.
And so, when the Comedian comes back from Vietnam, where he was allowed to get away with literal murder, seemingly snapped his tenuous grasp on sanity. The whole scene with Night Owl (no, I will not spell it that ridiculous way!) shows that. He has risked his neck time and again to make the world safer. Sure, his personal motivations are questionable at best, but his actions meant dangerous criminals were now off the streets, and the efforts are met with scorn and criticism.
I loved this film!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/03/13 13:46:37
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
I don't know if it makes it into the movie, but in the comic, Dr. Manhattan comments that Vietnam was the perfect place for the Comedian. He was 'the most amoral person that I've ever met' and Vietnam was all about brutality and killing.
The rub is, the 'heroes' are almost as bad as the villians. They're 'heroes' in the 'defend the civilians' manner, not in the 'great role-model' manner.
I haven't seen the movie, but I think the excerpts from the Hollis Mason/Nite Owl I book really added a depth to the story that I don't see how they can capture in a film. He realizes that they're all a little nutty. Look at the Minutemen:
Dollar Bill - was hired by a bank to have a 'superhero to protect your money'. Killed by a robber when his cape was caught in the revolving door.
Mothman - in an insane asylum
Hooded Justice - just disappeared. Possibly an East German bodybuilder/wrestler. A body washes up in Boston with a single gunshot to the head, was probably the wrestler. Rumored to have been killed by his Soviet handlers.
I forget the other woman in the Minutemen, but she was thrown out after it was revealed she was a lesbian. Her and her lover were murdered by a former foe.
Even Captain Metropolis was a bit of a caricature at the founding of the Crimebusters. He was very much the Nixon-conservative worried about subversives at the universities, drugs, and even groups like the Black Panthers.
In the dark future, there are skulls for everyone. But only the bad guys get spikes. And rivets for all, apparently welding was lost in the Dark Age of Technology. -from C.Borer
I think Nurglitch mentioned this at one point: the costumes are meant to be
fetishistic.
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"...he could never understand the sense of a contest in which the two adversaries agreed upon the rules." Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude
If nothing else dietrich you should see the beginning of the movie. Oh, and the chick you are thinking of I believe is Silhouette.
One nitpick for sure was the lack of smoking. It was in the book and in 1985 (and obliviously earlier) there was a lot more smoking. It also lead to the great line where Dan asks Laurie "I thought you quit" and she responds "No one ever quits, there are just longer periods between relapses". Obliviously Moore is referring to more than just smoking here, or at least I always thought so.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2009/03/13 14:40:20
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
I want to see the film, just don't know when it'll happen between work, kids, and prep for Adepticon. Hey, I can paint my 1,000 pt army in 3 weeks when it's only take two months to get it built, and it's not even done yet. Sure, that could happen.......
In the dark future, there are skulls for everyone. But only the bad guys get spikes. And rivets for all, apparently welding was lost in the Dark Age of Technology. -from C.Borer
Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:I haven't been carded in years, although I am 35, if you're under 25, then you aren't obviously over 18, if you are, then all I can say is over-zealous staff?
I'm 33, my other friend is 35, and the other is 39.
Mannahnin wrote:A lot of folks online (and in emails in other parts of life) use pretty mangled English. The idea is that it takes extra effort and time to write properly, and they’d rather save the time. If you can still be understood, what’s the harm? While most of the time a sloppy post CAN be understood, the use of proper grammar, punctuation, and spelling is generally seen as respectable and desirable on most forums. It demonstrates an effort made to be understood, and to make your post an easy and pleasant read. By making this effort, you can often elicit more positive responses from the community, and instantly mark yourself as someone worth talking to.
insaniak wrote: Every time someone threatens violence over the internet as a result of someone's hypothetical actions at the gaming table, the earth shakes infinitisemally in its orbit as millions of eyeballs behind millions of monitors all roll simultaneously.
A bizarre array of focusing mirrors and lenses turning my phrases into even more accurate clones of
Watching this movie was like watching a cute hipster chick. Sure she's cute and she does it all for "irony" and "sarcasm" and there's a "deeper level" to all that fashion, but eh. For pretty much for all the reasons seb and pol go into. All the "heh look at what comic books show yeah this is the REAL gritty stuff" and these are how REAL superheroes would act it's kinda like Batman and how he's messed up in the head and the world is a dark place. It insists on itself being "deep." But like the cute hipster chick there's still fight scenes, hot chicks, and explosions.
I was disappointed in the small amount of blue dilz though. Dr. Manhattan, why, as the greatest man, did you not show off the part of a man we pride ourselves on the most? Oh wait it's because he's disconnected with humanity and doesn't care for its symbols so why would he care about a giant phallus and man the reasons are so obvious.
I think when you can turn someone inside out, the manly benchmark of 'Whose got the biggest willy' rapidly becomes a moot point.
I've been known, during particularly pointless posturing in the pub, to just stand up, drop trou, and declare that, one way or the other, the matter is closed. That is effective in it's own way.
But to just wander around with it on show? Does it matter if you have the biggest? You have risen above such petty matters.
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
Lordhat wrote: I'm 33, my other friend is 35, and the other is 39.
Damn that is over-zealous, kinda like when that seventy year old got ID checked for booze in the UK a while back.. kinda. Don't some people have eyes, or where you all dressed as Watchmen.
As to the story, aye I still want to see this film, alot of my discussion here was based on the advertising not on if the movie is bad or good. Comedian still sounds like a arsh-hat, but I've liked characters in other stuff that is worse and if he has Charisma which it sounds like he does, it is surprising what folks can get away with.
The only thing I will add before I'm done is I've seen a few voices raise the 'this is what superheroes would be like' thing. To me thats pretty much rubbish, these are anti-heroes, I am sure they will be interesting to watch, But the suggestion that if anyone got superpowers he would have to be dark is laughable.
Look at police officers and firemen for examples, these are Human beings willing to risk their necks for little reward and although you get darker ones of them on occasion, many do it without complaint and for society. To a lesser degree some of these 'by night heroes' that go about America atm the moment are other good examples. (Can't remember any of their names, but theres a guy in Phoenix that wears bodyarmour, and a girl in New York who looks out for guys taking advantage of drunk girls.)
In my view as with most things it would be down to the individual, but my reckoning is you are just as likely to get a Spiderman type as you are a Comedian type.
Other than that point I'll be planning to watch this at some point, not sure if I'll cough up for the DVD or catch it on Sky though.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2009/03/15 17:38:18
"That's not an Ork, its a girl.." - Last words of High General Daran Ul'tharem, battle of Ursha VII.
Two White Horses (Ipswich Town and Denver Broncos Supporter)
Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:The only thing I will add before I'm done is I've seen a few voices raise the 'this is what superheroes would be like' thing. To me thats pretty much rubbish, these are anti-heroes, I am sure they will be interesting to watch, But the suggestion that if anyone got superpowers he would have to be dark is laughable.
You were doing so well then you forgot that you haven't read the book/seen the movie like you just stated. We've had to say this before but I guess we'll have to say it again: you can't pass judgement on something you readily admit to be uninformed about. You don't have enough information to form a valid opinion. If you did, you would already know what is wrong with your statement.
Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:Look at police officers and firemen for examples, these are Human beings willing to risk their necks for little reward and although you get darker ones of them on occasion, many do it without complaint and for society.
I can't say as much about fireman as the studies I've seen are on police forces primarily so I am not talking about them.
1. They do complain, a lot.
2. Generally they aren't bastions of virtue that just want to help people. Some are, many are not.
3. By and large cops fit a certain profile across the board. It isn't like the military were you get a wide variety. Part of that profile isn't being a paragon of virtue.
4. For every occasional overly heroic act there are at least as many acts of corruption on equal scale. The reality is that most of the job is mundane. Parking tickets, complaining people, mounds of paperwork.
Cops aren't shiny badged heroes that do no wrong, they are human beings that put themselves into minor position of authority for a paycheck. Depending on your bent they are tool of a corrupt system used to protect the elite and their property from the masses. Civil policing is a far greyer area than you are admitting to and the subject of much discourse and debate.
Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:To a lesser degree some of these 'by night heroes' that go about America atm the moment are other good examples. (Can't remember any of their names, but theres a guy in Phoenix that wears bodyarmour, and a girl in New York who looks out for guys taking advantage of drunk girls.)
And how much have these people really changed? What kind of person are they? What really drives a guy to put on body armor night after night and skulk around looking for 'wrongdoing'. He sounds like a lawsuit and jail sentence just waiting around the corner. And in the end has crime really gone down because of this? Same as the chick who sits in bars night after night just hoping to find a predator. You don't have to dedicate your life to do the right thing. Anyone can call 911 or step up to if we see something funky going on. You'll still never stop all crime*, and especially not by becoming a criminal.
*
Spoiler:
Which is kind of the point that 'you know who' comes to realize and changes tactics
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:The only thing I will add before I'm done is I've seen a few voices raise the 'this is what superheroes would be like' thing. To me thats pretty much rubbish, these are anti-heroes, I am sure they will be interesting to watch, But the suggestion that if anyone got superpowers he would have to be dark is laughable.
Look at police officers and firemen for examples, these are Human beings willing to risk their necks for little reward and although you get darker ones of them on occasion, many do it without complaint and for society. To a lesser degree some of these 'by night heroes' that go about America atm the moment are other good examples. (Can't remember any of their names, but theres a guy in Phoenix that wears bodyarmour, and a girl in New York who looks out for guys taking advantage of drunk girls.)
In my view as with most things it would be down to the individual, but my reckoning is you are just as likely to get a Spiderman type as you are a Comedian type.
Other than that point I'll be planning to watch this at some point, not sure if I'll cough up for the DVD or catch it on Sky though.
Not really. First up, there’s only mask that actually has superpowers, the rest are all regular people. Second up, like Ahtman says it isn’t as if the police force is full of nothing but saints. It’s a big complicated world and the police force is full of all types.
And the biggest point is that the argument put forward in Watchmen is a lot more complicated that ‘superheroes would be grimdark’. Rather, it says superheroes would be human and would become superheroes for very human reasons. That might include sadists like the Comedian or lunatics like Rorschach, but it’ll also include a guy like Nite Owl who really did like the idea of rescuing people. Or someone like Silk Spectre, who became a superhero due to parental pressure. Ozymandias reason is the subjective, as despite a genuine interest in people and society, his decision to become a superhero likely had a lot to do with his overwhelming ego.
The thing is, Watchmen isn’t giving a simple answer for real life comic book heroes. It’s saying that if comic book heroes were to exist in the real world, they’d be as complicated and contradictory as the real world.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Difference between a Cop and a Cape is covered beautifully in Watchmen, AND Marvel Civil war.
Cops have guidlines to stick to, rules to follow, and face bad things if they get caught not doing so.
Capes? They don't. They are vigilantes. They are not answerable to anyone. They are unlicensed.
Now the above is more Marvel Civil War, as to touch on Watchmen would be to ruin it!
That's why I like The Boys. Capes as fake vigilante celebrity corporate entities.
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"...he could never understand the sense of a contest in which the two adversaries agreed upon the rules." Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude
Ahtman wrote:
You were doing so well then you forgot that you haven't read the book/seen the movie like you just stated. We've had to say this before but I guess we'll have to say it again: you can't pass judgement on something you readily admit to be uninformed about. You don't have enough information to form a valid opinion. If you did, you would already know what is wrong with your statement.
I wasn't commenting on the book, as I said I was commenting on those who had said 'if there we real superheroes they'd be like the Watchmen.' They are anti-heroes, I get that and no I don't need to have read it or seen the film to have a opinion on it. This is 2009, anti-heroes are old news, why I said in an earlier post I didn't feel that impressed with the plot. Other comics have done stories better than this now. But aye, my whole comment was based on a reaction to that statement, nothing to do with the Watchmen, it is quite clearly written there.
Ahtman wrote:
I can't say as much about fireman as the studies I've seen are on police forces primarily so I am not talking about them.
1. They do complain, a lot.
2. Generally they aren't bastions of virtue that just want to help people. Some are, many are not.
3. By and large cops fit a certain profile across the board. It isn't like the military were you get a wide variety. Part of that profile isn't being a paragon of virtue.
4. For every occasional overly heroic act there are at least as many acts of corruption on equal scale. The reality is that most of the job is mundane. Parking tickets, complaining people, mounds of paperwork.
Cops aren't shiny badged heroes that do no wrong, they are human beings that put themselves into minor position of authority for a paycheck. Depending on your bent they are tool of a corrupt system used to protect the elite and their property from the masses. Civil policing is a far greyer area than you are admitting to and the subject of much discourse and debate.
I don't do studies, this was a comment from my personal experiences of knowing local police officers and fire servicemen. I'm sorry but studies can say what they want, I have talked and got to know folks in both services. I am a nights manager at a shop with an off licence, we deal with drunken issues thus we have a very close rapport with our local officers. Three also live in the village and use us as their main shop. Maybe in some places those comments are true, but not all, if you have read my post you'll notice I wasn't suggesting they'd all be good, I was countering the comment made by others earlier on in this thread that all Superheroes would be dark/anti-heroes. I full well know they're would be people like the Watchmen, but I was countering those making the suggestion this film 'is how it would really be' thus making the suggestion all supers would be like this.
I used Police officers because I know folks who do it to help society, they'd do it for free if it was practical, heck one of the community support officers here served in London as a Police Officer for 20yrs before he decided to retire. Moved up here to Suffolk and he made the call to help the community by becoming a support officer, thats the kind of people I'm referencing.
Ahtman wrote:
And how much have these people really changed? What kind of person are they? What really drives a guy to put on body armor night after night and skulk around looking for 'wrongdoing'. He sounds like a lawsuit and jail sentence just waiting around the corner. And in the end has crime really gone down because of this? Same as the chick who sits in bars night after night just hoping to find a predator. You don't have to dedicate your life to do the right thing. Anyone can call 911 or step up to if we see something funky going on. You'll still never stop all crime*, and especially not by becoming a criminal.
*
Spoiler:
Which is kind of the point that 'you know who' comes to realize and changes tactics
Well I agree I think both of them aren't going to get far, but my point is they try, and thats all I was commenting on, some folks would uphold virtue and the law.
All I was stating was some folks would be like the heroes in other comic books, obviously not all would.
Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:
In my view as with most things it would be down to the individual, but my reckoning is you are just as likely to get a Spiderman type as you are a Comedian type.
Really is it that difficult to read my post?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2009/03/16 18:49:08
"That's not an Ork, its a girl.." - Last words of High General Daran Ul'tharem, battle of Ursha VII.
Two White Horses (Ipswich Town and Denver Broncos Supporter)
I'm confused - how, exactly, can you know that other comics have done what the watchmen does better than watchmen without having read it? No offense but it seems like a stretch to know something that well without reading it yourself. Yes, the anti-hero idea in comics has been done to death since watchmen, but pretty much never as well...most of the time it's done with none of the understanding or thought that watchmen puts into it. Declaring flat out that it's been surpassed multiple times when you've never read it is hard to justify.
I've read a lot of comics in the last 20 years and quite frankly Watchmen is still my favorite, for a lot of reasons. It's not just a story of anti-heroes.
As for "spiderman type" or "comedian type", as of 1985 "spiderman type" was a little too two dimensional to ever exist in the real world, imo. This is of course one of the points of "watchmen" the comic. But even if you don't believe that or agree, it is untrue that none of the characters or Heroes in Watchmen err on the side of "spiderman type". And pretty much none of the other characters are "Comedian type", they're all sorts of shades of grey and differences in between.
Really, is it that difficult to read a comic book before spouting off on what it's about or what is and isn't rubbish in the story based entirely on other people's comments on a message board?
Oh It might be mine as well, if you note I'm talking about the plot, not the comic. Its a little cliche now, but I'm sure reading the whole thing I'd have different view.
Will have to get a copy now I suppose to find out for myself.
"That's not an Ork, its a girl.." - Last words of High General Daran Ul'tharem, battle of Ursha VII.
Two White Horses (Ipswich Town and Denver Broncos Supporter)
Ok, I can accept that - but really, plot elements of Watchmen are supposed to be sort-of-cliche. You can't deconstruct comics without borrowing their tropes, and you can't turn them all on their head every time. I still love it because it's very different than other comics, even the ones that followed and tried a similar plot. I find most comics after the watchmen that tried to be edgy or real or whatever you want to say didn't really understand the purpose of it and suffer because of that. But I still like a lot of them...they're just not Watchmen.
Aye to be fair my views on the plot are based off a couple of plot synopsis reports off different sites. I wasn't planning to judge the full thing until I had seen it, as I noted a few times in here. I want to see this film and read the book now.
I think folks misunderstood my discussion mainly based on things being associated with the film/book, (the poor way it was advertised, and now the response to the 'supers would be like this' comments) as direct assaults on the comic/film. Which if you read what I'm posting its not at all.
"That's not an Ork, its a girl.." - Last words of High General Daran Ul'tharem, battle of Ursha VII.
Two White Horses (Ipswich Town and Denver Broncos Supporter)
lambadomy wrote:I'm confused - how, exactly, can you know that other comics have done what the watchmen does better than watchmen without having read it?
Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:I don't do studies
Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:I'm sorry but studies can say what they want,
Didn't you read the previous post? he doesn't need to 'read' or 'study' or 'read studies'. All the thinking and experts are for losers. He just knows because he knows and that is good enough. What has learning and studying ever done for anyone?
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
A bizarre array of focusing mirrors and lenses turning my phrases into even more accurate clones of
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:I think when you can turn someone inside out, the manly benchmark of 'Whose got the biggest willy' rapidly becomes a moot point.
I've been known, during particularly pointless posturing in the pub, to just stand up, drop trou, and declare that, one way or the other, the matter is closed. That is effective in it's own way.
But to just wander around with it on show? Does it matter if you have the biggest? You have risen above such petty matters.
Yes this is what I meant with the "omg the reasons are so obvious blah blah". I was still disappointed in the amount of blue dilz, even with 4 of them being onscreen at one point.
