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Another point about the Black Freighter is that if Superheroes existed in the real world (sorta the premise of Watchmen) then they wouldn't be popular at all, so comics would have to be about something else.

I loved those bits in the comics, with the newsvendor gabbing on and on. Brilliant stuff.

Ozymandias wrote:

Frazzled wrote:You underestimate the power of DUMB Ozy.

Actually, I've seen movie previews and didn't see the VC stuff. Had I not read reviews I would have been in for a severe surprise and would have likely walked out. Plus the costumes look stupid like Batman's Riddler stupid so would not have caught the coming gorefest.

Did you see 300?

And I wouldn't say the Watchmen is a gorefest, though there are a few moments when the whole audience gasped. My wife walked out of Sin City because of the violence but she thoroughly enjoyed The Watchmen.

1. I own that puppy. As mentioned great movie to watch whilst painting or other turn brain off activity.

2. Unless you've researched it I would not have known he was directing.

You're thinking people put that much effort into movies
From the trailers I saw
*superheroes
*bad guys in masks ala campy batman
*both of them in really bad outfits

My initial impression was "B level superhero movie." Not "movie attempting to be deep with rape scenes and mutilations."
The only reason I learned more was after The Spirit fiasco I swore off comic book films, yet She Who Must Be Obeyed was interested, so I decided to check it out.

Frazzled wrote:

1. I own that puppy. As mentioned great movie to watch whilst painting or other turn brain off activity.

2. Unless you've researched it I would not have known he was directing.

You're thinking people put that much effort into movies
From the trailers I saw
*superheroes
*bad guys in masks ala campy batman
*both of them in really bad outfits

My initial impression was "B level superhero movie." Not "movie attempting to be deep with rape scenes and mutilations."
The only reason I learned more was after The Spirit fiasco I swore off comic book films, yet She Who Must Be Obeyed was interested, so I decided to check it out.

1. If you saw 300 then the violence in the Watchman won't faze you. 300 is much more graphically violent.

2. No research needed. It was in the freakin trailer! Again, the wife who never saw 300 knew it was the same guy.

I don't think it's too much effort to actually watch the trailer. I'm sorry that people missed ALL of this while watching the trailer but ignorance is no reason to condemn a movie for a false appeal to young kids. If people miss the R rating, miss the director as one known for a very violent movie, miss the the violence in the trailer, and miss the hype about the graphic novel and what it was about, I'm not gonna have much sympathy when they get shocked by the movie.

EDIT: Just so we're clear, there is no actual rape scene in the movie. There is attempted rape, but it is interrupted. That's another thing the nut-job reviewer got wrong. Silk Spectre sleeps with the Comedian despite the attempted rape and the daughter is the result of that.

Bit hostile there boyo. Whats the deal?

1. If you saw 300 then the violence in the Watchman won't faze you. 300 is much more graphically violent.

Gotcha. Several of the reviewers thought it was more but I’ll take your word on that.

2. No research needed. It was in the freakin trailer! Again, the wife who never saw 300 knew it was the same guy.

I didn’t see it, or let me rephrase I don’t know who the director of 300 was.

I don't think it's too much effort to actually watch the trailer. I'm sorry that people missed ALL of this while watching the trailer but ignorance is no reason to condemn a movie for a false appeal to young kids. If people miss the R rating, miss the director as one known for a very violent movie, miss the the violence in the trailer, and miss the hype about the graphic novel and what it was about, I'm not gonna have much sympathy when they get shocked by the movie.

1. I have been careful in not condemning the movie. I have stated its not my personal cup of tea as I need a non-historical buzzkill film like I need a hole in the head right now, can’t get past the costumes, and am pretty burned out on comic book movies.

2. The trailer I saw (mind you only saw one) had a bit from ONE fight scene.

3. I’d never heard of Watchmen before the movie, or the “buzz.” With few exceptions I don’t listen to ‘buzz,’ or read about it. Often, when I do I get hammered. Cold Mountain, Slumdog, Phantom Menace.

4. Lots of people go to movies based on the trailer alone (I am eagerly awaiting Aliens vs. Monsters). If we have to do indepth research on a film to avoid a major pitfall A) it obviates the benefit of seeing the film; B) it becomes freakin work; C) something’s wrong because the trailer is misleading.

Silk Spectre sleeps with the Comedian despite the attempted rape and the daughter is the result of that.

OTT but you just lost your female audience. That’s non-realistic to a “come on that’s bs” level.

Edit:
This is the trailer I saw.
-You are right it does say director of 300.
-nothing there to lead me to think this would be a hard movie if I didn't see the R. It looks like every other "edgy" comic book promo I've seen.
http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/1808406490/video/10658091
-Having said that-I always check out the ratings on a movie I'm letting the kids see. You are completely correct in that its the obligation of the parent/guardian in that regard.

Frazzled wrote:

Silk Spectre sleeps with the Comedian despite the attempted rape and the daughter is the result of that.

OTT but you just lost your female audience. That’s non-realistic to a “come on that’s bs” level.

I dunno. There's a lot of Springer stuff that happens IRL...

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

Silk Spectre sleeps with the Comedian despite the attempted rape and the daughter is the result of that.

OTT but you just lost your female audience. That’s non-realistic to a “come on that’s bs” level.

I dunno. There's a lot of Springer stuff that happens IRL...

Only in freakshows. In the real world, normal non-mouthbreathing weirdo 15 year old boy fantasies trailer park world, women don't do that. But thats not the target audience is it?

Of course not. And that's the point, no?

Frazzled wrote:

Silk Spectre sleeps with the Comedian despite the attempted rape and the daughter is the result of that.

OTT but you just lost your female audience. That’s non-realistic to a “come on that’s bs” level.

What is important is that you don't understand the context or the amount of time that had passed between events. Just go by one sentence out of context of an entire story and judge it. It is for the best.

That the comic's treatment of women is not realistic? I don't know. Is that the point?

What is important is that you don't understand the context or the amount of time that had passed between events. Just go by one sentence out of context of an entire story and judge it. It is for the best.

Meh I stand by my statement. You lose your female audience when you try to say a woman who is almost raped by a man falls for him. Doesn't this movie also have the only female lead banging two different other characters in this?

Frazzled wrote:That the comic's treatment of women is not realistic? I don't know. Is that the point?

Yes, becuase when I see Wonder Woman I think "now there is a realistic portrayal of women". I think it is also good that we pick one character and assume she represents all women in the movie as well as all women in general.

In other news, Rhianna gets back with Chris Brown.

The movie (and the comic) makes the event out to be a tragedy in every way for Silk Spectre, and in some ways for the Comedian. As opposed to a mouthbreathing 15 year old fantasy.

As for losing the female audience - I'm pretty sure the dudes in costumes and the comic book part does that pretty well by itself. The theater satruday night was 90% male except for my wife (who loves the comic as well so I had to wait to see it with her instead of opening night)

I dunno about you, but I know of several "relationships" where one partner sticks around with an abusive spouse or SO for a variety of reasons - low self esteem, feeling trapped, or just because they don't care. Silk Spectre Numbero Uno came off in the book like someone caught up in their own public image and just floated along.

And as for people saying that the true nature of the film is uncertain without "research" makes it sound like you need to do an essay on the film before knowing how violent and rated R it is. I guess this isn't the norm for most people, but I at least poke around on IMDB.com for a brief overview of the film before I throw down $8-10 on a ticket. Do people just kinda wander into the theatre at about 7 or 9pm and pick a movie based on the title and/or movie poster?

EDIT: The above paragraph is not meant to be sarcastic, I'm honestly curious if this is the way most people pick what movie to see.

C) something’s wrong because the trailer is misleading.

That's the one reasons why I didn't like Pan's Labyrinth.

Anung Un Rama wrote:

C) something’s wrong because the trailer is misleading.

That's the one reasons why I didn't like Pan's Labyrinth.

yea I hated that. The gross factor really detracted from what could have been a good movie.

In other news, Rhianna gets back with Chris Brown.

Crap, you’re right. I don’t hang out with women like that, always rejected women friends who mildly acted like that. Having said that we don’t watch movies like that either…

As for losing the female audience - I'm pretty sure the dudes in costumes and the comic book part does that pretty well by itself. The theater satruday night was 90% male except for my wife (who loves the comic as well so I had to wait to see it with her instead of opening night)

Point made again.

And as for people saying that the true nature of the film is uncertain without "research" makes it sound like you need to do an essay on the film before knowing how violent and rated R it is. I guess this isn't the norm for most people, but I at least poke around on IMDB.com for a brief overview of the film before I throw down $8-10 on a ticket. Do people just kinda wander into the theatre at about 7 or 9pm and pick a movie based on the title and/or movie poster?

Actually I intentionally don’t much of the time. It’s the same reason “spoilers” ahead warnings are out. If something looks interesting I don’t want to know whats going to happen. It ruins much of the film.
$8 for a ticket? Try $20 for two plus $30-$50 in munchies and booze.

http://www.drafthouse.com/main/franchise/

Frazzled wrote:
Meh I stand by my statement. You lose your female audience when you try to say a woman who is almost raped by a man falls for him. Doesn't this movie also have the only female lead banging two different other characters in this?

lambadomy wrote:In other news, Rhianna gets back with Chris Brown.

Exactly. I also think you underestimate the intelligence of the female audience when you make statements like that.

Plus, they do touch on that it takes a certain kind of warped personality to become a costumed hero to start with.

I know we're not going to convince you to see this movie, but please don't say it's "another comic book movie". I wouldn't call the Dark Knight just another comic book movie either.

Ozymandias wrote:
Exactly. I also think you underestimate the intelligence of the female audience when you make statements like that.

Actually I think my point that women are intelligent, generally supports my side. You've got to be twitchy to pull a Rihanna. The uproar over that supports my statement.

I know we're not going to convince you to see this movie, but please don't say it's "another comic book movie". I wouldn't call the Dark Knight just another comic book movie either.

I never did. I said the preview looked like most other edgy comic book previews I had seen.

OT but Dark Knight was just ok for me. I liked the joker played Charles Manson style, but it was too convoluted (the whole Hong kong side story detracted). What I really liked about that movie, and its predecessor was

1. Michael Caine. he can't make a bad movie.
2. the soudntrack. The Soundtrack comes at me in waves, swelling and receding. Since Zantar master of the pit has gone off the deep end in percussion and composition I have an even greater appreciation. Wow now I know a present I want for the birthday (other than jumping out of an airplane).

I will say that the movie kind of screws up the relationship between Laurie and Dr. Manhattan and then Laurie and Nite Owl, but not too badly (the order of events is slightly off if I remember correctly, making Laurie look a little worse) but stilll...

So a woman leaves (or is left by) the man she used to love but who has grown apart (in an extreme way too), and then sleeps with someone else...and that's unrealistic? Really? Relationships don't end? People don't start new ones?

As for Silk Spectre I (Sally) and the comedian, he does try to rape her. But this event does not end their professional relationship, partly because she is kind of obsessed with being a costumed hero and well, spending time with the other costume heros kind of goes with that territory. So they end up together once 9 years later...9 years! People change, people get over things, and well, people make mistakes. Movies (and most stories) don't tend to be about common events...otherwise they'd be boring. But being uncommon does not make something impossible or completely ridiculous/wrong.

I do have a friend who has never read the watchmen and won't because she knows about the rape scene. That's fine. I don't care if someone reads it or watches it or not. But I also know plenty of women who love the comic and don't seem to think the events are a big deal - just interesting, and sad.

As for losing the female audience - maybe, maybe not, as I said I think the "its a comic book" part of it makes it lose a lot more women than the content would. I'm pretty sure it will still end up making money, and I'm not really convinced they'd have made more had they changed/removed that subplot.

$8 for a ticket? Try $20 for two plus $30-$50 in munchies and booze.

http://www.drafthouse.com/main/franchise/

I normally don't nitpick, but I was just talking about ticket prices, which at 8 to 10 bucks around her in Salt Lake City, would be $16-20 like you mentioned. $30-50 on munchies? While it must be nice to be able to buy booze at the move theatre, it is not so in Utah, and at that price, I'd rather wear my jacket and sneak stuff in.

I know a few females, not comic types, that read the book (and one so far that has seen the movie) and one of the reasons they enjoyed it was because the female characters are flawed and three dimensional not busty idealized sex fantasies.

Yet they wear stereotypical female comic book outfits?

I just thought I'd add here, first none of what happens in Watchmen bothers me, I'll watch it but only when it comes on Sky, no rush to see in the cinema.

My point I was raising on the previous page was just from my observations, not because I'm running around the room brandishing a Daily Mail and being horrified there is a 'attempted rape' scene, in fact I want to see it to discover the context.

However, Frazzled has a point here, my wife took an instant dislike to the film when it sounds like its giving the 'Attempted rape' a thumbs up because as she wonderfully put it.

'Awwww he tried to rape her, but its okay they made up and had a baby so its alright now. What a pathetic woman and typically written to be so by a man'

She also thinks Rhianna is an idiot for going back to Brown, and points to Whitney Housten as an example of a similar thing. She just hopes Rhianna doesn't end up on crack before she realises what a jerk her so called boyfriend is.


So aye, I think a lot of females watching this film will be, wtf when they see that plot piece. Unless its handled bloody well, hence why I want to see it.

BlackDracoSLC wrote:

$8 for a ticket? Try $20 for two plus $30-$50 in munchies and booze.

http://www.drafthouse.com/main/franchise/

I normally don't nitpick, but I was just talking about ticket prices, which at 8 to 10 bucks around her in Salt Lake City, would be $16-20 like you mentioned. $30-50 on munchies? While it must be nice to be able to buy booze at the move theatre, it is not so in Utah, and at that price, I'd rather wear my jacket and sneak stuff in.

OT but thats food too. Its a dinner theater. They show bad previews, and parts from bad movies in the same genre prior to the movie. For Walk the Line they had the lounge act where William Shatner was singing horrible songs and smoking cigs. Its kind of a cultie place.

Frazzled wrote:Yet they wear stereotypical female comic book outfits?

Proving once again you have never read the book or seen the movie. If you are3 going to continually complain about things you have no context for at least read the book instead of having us explain why you are wrong every 3 posts.

In this instance you remind me of my little brother who thinks women think alike and follow some formula. "This is how women feel about 'x'". Or I suppose Cosmo where a woman tells other women what men want.

Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:However, Frazzled has a point here, my wife took an instant dislike to the film when it sounds like its giving the 'Attempted rape' a thumbs up because as she wonderfully put it.

Do she/you always leap to early conclusions based on paltry or false information or is it just this time?

Do you always reply with sarcastic nonsense and flippantly insult people? Oh wait thats an affirmative.
Remember insulting a man's wife is dangerous thing. Mind Rule #1 Ahtman.

I said I had never read, nor desire to read it. I am not interested in comic books. I have no problem with other people doing so, but thats not my thing.

I said was not going to see the film as it wasn't my cup of tea like three times already.

I note you DIDN"T RESPOND TO THE QUESTION THOUGH.

If its so deep blah blah why does she still wear the stereotypical pseudo stripper superheroine costume?

Hey I'm just passing on her view, she won't join any more 40K forums, but this isn't a case of me = she.

Hell If you want to check if shes real or not just go look on heresy online where shes Lvix, and I'm Druchii in Space, you can see by the writing styles we are different people.

As I said I want to see the contex, and I can only make my conclusions on what info I have, good or bad. She being the woman out of the two of us seemed a good example of a womans reaction to that plot line.


Returning to my previous point however, the mis-advertising thing did get me interested enough so I've asked some of my female co-workers yesterday and today who've seen the ad what they thought they would be going to watch if they went to see it. They all said either a Spiderman or batman type movie (oh and when they say Batman they aren't talking about Bales version,) thats six woman aged 28 through to about 50.

Still makes me wonder if the studio where playing the average movie go-er with there advertsing.

My mom is a domestic violence counselor. There are thousands of women who, while otherwise intelligent, make really bad decisions about the men in their lives, repeatedly. I hear about a lot of her cases, and in each case my wife and I wonder why they're still there, and yet it keeps happening.

As for the Silk Specter II character sleeping with 2 different guys in the movie (and book), this too needs to be taken in context. She's at the point in her relationship with Dr. Manhattan where she's walking out on him, and the other guy happens to be there and pays the attention to her that Manhattan hasn't for a few years. Is it any wonder that she reacts to this? This is hardly unrealistic.

My wife, who has also read the comic, didn't immediately get lost by either of these things. To insinuate that you lose your female audience by including such themes is, in itself, insulting to females.

And, yes, the female characters wear stereotypically female superhero costumes. And the male characters, mostly, wear stereotypical male superhero costumes, and again, this is because the original book is an exploration into the hero genre. The costumes (And how they change between the original minutemen and the later watchmen) are as much a part of this as the story.

Frazzled, for someone who continues to claim that you have no interest in this movie, or comics in general, you keep coming back to rap on it. In the end, it's an ok movie adaptation of one of the most relevant pieces of literature of the twentieth century. It loses a lot of the deeper meaning in being adapted for the screen, but I think that happens when any great book is hollywooded. If it's not your thing, that's fine, but don't keep slamming it without taking the time to understand what it is.

Frazzled wrote:

Anung Un Rama wrote:

C) something’s wrong because the trailer is misleading.

That's the one reasons why I didn't like Pan's Labyrinth.

yea I hated that. The gross factor really detracted from what could have been a good movie.

Don't want to derial the thread, but I have to mention this one more time. When I saw the Trailer for Pan's Labyrinth I was expecting a fantasy movie which in the ned only was about 1/3 of the entire movie. Which, to be honest, pissed me really off.

Frazzled wrote:Do you always reply with sarcastic nonsense and flippantly insult people?

Not always.

Frazzled wrote:Remember insulting a man's wife is dangerous thing. Mind Rule #1 Ahtman.

Thats right masta Fraz, those wimmen folks needs you to protect them from mild internet sarcasm. Lawdy lawdy dah wimmen folk are made of such gentle flowers. Thank goodness dey got a white knight that understands all dem in youz.

Asking someone if they and their wife are prone to casually dismissing things on things with barely anecdotal evidence isn't really an insult. It could be considered condescending though.

Frazzled wrote:I said I had never read, nor desire to read it. I am not interested in comic books. I have no problem with other people doing so, but thats not my thing.

Then don't read it or see the movie but don't refuse to learn anything about and insult it/prejudge it. You can't do both. Either read/see it and make a judgement or don't and stop trying to find reasons why it is distasteful w/o knowing what you are talking about.

Frazzled wrote:I note you DIDN"T RESPOND TO THE QUESTION THOUGH.

Of course not. You want to know more go to the library/book store. You are a broken record in this thread of criticism on something you fully admit you don't know. At this point it doesn't really matter if you get an answer or not.

Frazzled wrote:
If its so deep blah blah why does she still wear the stereotypical pseudo stripper superheroine costume?

Read the book. We aren't your Cliff Notes and our purpose isn't to justify your ignorance of the material all the time.

Your refusal to answer the question is interesting. You don't know do you?

I respect Ozzy's and redbeard's statements, but frankly you've consistently attacked those who have doubts about the film. You're way too wound up about this film. Dare I say...fan boy?

Frazzled wrote:
If its so deep blah blah why does she still wear the stereotypical pseudo stripper superheroine costume?

Ahtman's tone is bad but he makes a good point. You keep bringing things up that are explained by a thorough reading of the graphic novel. They wear stereotypical superhero costumes because they are superheros, that's how they are supposed to dress. This is a deconstruction of superhero stories and really a look at the characters and personality of people who would dress up in costumes and fight crime. It's the reason so much of the comic is dedicated to back story and told in flashbacks or "memoirs." Silk Spectre used her superhero costume to start a modeling/acting career. It's a lot different than a one-dimensional Wonder Woman outfit and story.

Seriously, go buy a copy or borrow it from the library or something instead of making uninformed opinions based on other peoples uninformed opinions.