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speedfreak wrote:The nids and orks will destroy everyone else then fight eachother.

And the other races would just magically disappear?

At least post in some level of depth instead of a bland one sentance quip meant to increase your post count.

The god you speak of was erased from 40k fluff.

The 5th god with be created when the Imperium is destroyed, I'd imagine it would be the god of Destruction.

Slaanesh was created when Eldar "indulged in pleasure".
Khorne was created from rage and bloodthirst.
Nurgle from illness, so it kind of makes sense that at the destruction of a race the god of "Destruction" would be born.

Lord-Loss wrote:The god you speak of was erased from 40k fluff.

The 5th god with be created when the Imperium is destroyed, I'd imagine it would be the god of Destruction.

Slaanesh was created when Eldar "indulged in pleasure".
Khorne was created from rage and bloodthirst.
Nurgle from illness, so it kind of makes sense that at the destruction of a race the god of "Destruction" would be born.

wasn't nurgle created from the fear of death? The worshpers are usually ones who go to great lenghts to preserve themselves.
Was Tzeentch made from peoples' thirst for knowledge?

Lord-Loss wrote:The god you speak of was erased from 40k fluff.

The 5th god with be created when the Imperium is destroyed, I'd imagine it would be the god of Destruction.

Slaanesh was created when Eldar "indulged in pleasure".
Khorne was created from rage and bloodthirst.
Nurgle from illness, so it kind of makes sense that at the destruction of a race the god of "Destruction" would be born.

No, if the Imperium is destroyed, so is Chaos. Malal still exists, he hasn't been completely retconned. He still has a renegade chapter following him called the Sons of Malice.

Its not just the Imperium that the chaos gods get there juice from, If the Imperium is destroyed there be weaked but still alive.

Yes but if the Imperium is weakened it will probably eventually fall. But that will be probably when the Illuminiti sacrifice themselves

Lord-Loss wrote:Its not just the Imperium that the chaos gods get there juice from, If the Imperium is destroyed there be weaked but still alive.

Not exactly,while your correct that it's not just "the Imperium" that fuels Chaos (the Chaos gods gain power from the pasions,hatreds,fears,etc from all humans),the actual destruction of the "Imperium" wouldn't weaken the Chaos gods,in fact the destruction of the imperium may have just the opposite affect,with the Imperium in ruins,humanities "lack of order" would more likely than not lead to much anger,frustration,panic,despair,thus making the "surviving humans ripe for Chaos picking.
Now,the destruction of humanity,would in fact weaken Chaos.

FITZZ wrote:

Lord-Loss wrote:Its not just the Imperium that the chaos gods get there juice from, If the Imperium is destroyed there be weaked but still alive.

Not exactly,while your correct that it's not just "the Imperium" that fuels Chaos (the Chaos gods gain power from the pasions,hatreds,fears,etc from all humans),the actual destruction of the "Imperium" wouldn't weaken the Chaos gods,in fact the destruction of the imperium may have just the opposite affect,with the Imperium in ruins,humanities "lack of order" would more likely than not lead to much anger,frustration,panic,despair,thus making the "surviving humans ripe for Chaos picking.
Now,the destruction of humanity,would in fact weaken Chaos.

Well I was thinking long term. I think everyone can agree that while some expiditions during long night might have gone pretty away from earth, nearly all the lost colonies must have been found.

So the destruction of the Imperium would basically be the end of humanity. Maybe the 5th chaos god would be of despair. Seeing a galatic empire crumble before you must be pretty horrible.

Lord-Loss wrote:

FITZZ wrote:

Lord-Loss wrote:Its not just the Imperium that the chaos gods get there juice from, If the Imperium is destroyed there be weaked but still alive.

Not exactly,while your correct that it's not just "the Imperium" that fuels Chaos (the Chaos gods gain power from the pasions,hatreds,fears,etc from all humans),the actual destruction of the "Imperium" wouldn't weaken the Chaos gods,in fact the destruction of the imperium may have just the opposite affect,with the Imperium in ruins,humanities "lack of order" would more likely than not lead to much anger,frustration,panic,despair,thus making the "surviving humans ripe for Chaos picking.
Now,the destruction of humanity,would in fact weaken Chaos.

Well I was thinking long term. I think everyone can agree that while some expiditions during long night might have gone pretty away from earth, nearly all the lost colonies must have been found.

So the destruction of the Imperium would basically be the end of humanity. Maybe the 5th chaos god would be of despair. Seeing a galatic empire crumble before you must be pretty horrible.

What I was getting at is that the Imperium,while representing most of humanity in the galaxy,is not in and of itself humanity,it's dogma and doctrines could be vaporized and the human race would continue,although obviously very fractured and disorginized.
So hypotheticly,if the Imperium was to be destroyed,the surviving humans would perhaps strenghten Chaos due to (as you said) the despair of having seen their empire whiped away.
Incedently,a 5th chaos god of despair wouldn't be necessary,Nurgle pretty much covers that aspect of human emotions.

Hmmm...What emotion would the 5th chaos god feed off then?

Lord-Loss wrote:Hmmm...What emotion would the 5th chaos god feed off then?

That's a good question,perhaps even worthy of a thread of it's own.

courage, loyalty, honor, unity? All other positive emotions more or less are represented in chaos, just because Anarchy can = good, so would this be an order god?

sniperjolly wrote:courage, loyalty, honor, unity? All other positive emotions more or less are represented in chaos, just because Anarchy can = good, so would this be an order god?

That would actauly be an interesting concept to see,I meen who says every Chaos god has to be a blood thirsty plauge spewing pervert full of deciet and trickery,perhaps a "god" born of the frustrations of Imperial citizens over the opressive nature of their empire,yearning for true honor & courage....hhmm.

Lord-Loss wrote:Hmmm...What emotion would the 5th chaos god feed off then?

Fear perhaps? Emperor knows there's plenty to be afraid of in the 40k universe.

The Old ones come back and one will say "Yay! I win, so guys who wants to play again?"
then they repopulate the galaxy.

At the 2004 or 2005 (can't remember which) Gamesday in Baltimore, the guest speaker, Gav Thorpe, was basically asked this same question. He came right out and said that it would never really end as long as there were players. But if the galaxy did start to go down in flames, the "Good Guys" wouldn't win. This is a "gothic" setting, full of Grim Darkness, where hope is but a faint glimmer on the horizon, from which you are separated by a chasm of utter despair. Gav's line was something like "The good guys will lose but they're gonna be screaming and kicking their legs "Nooooooo" as the last nail is hammered into the coffin."

FITZZ wrote:

Lord-Loss wrote:Hmmm...What emotion would the 5th chaos god feed off then?

That's a good question,perhaps even worthy of a thread of it's own.

I'm on it!

A Lictor... BLOR!!! wrote:At the 2004 or 2005 (can't remember which) Gamesday in Baltimore, the guest speaker, Gav Thorpe, was basically asked this same question. He came right out and said that it would never really end as long as there were players. But if the galaxy did start to go down in flames, the "Good Guys" wouldn't win. This is a "gothic" setting, full of Grim Darkness, where hope is but a faint glimmer on the horizon, from which you are separated by a chasm of utter despair. Gav's line was something like "The good guys will lose but they're gonna be screaming and kicking their legs "Nooooooo" as the last nail is hammered into the coffin."

Then we still have no idea who will win. There is no such thing as "good" in the 40k universe. There are factions who are evil and factions who are more evil. That's it.

Deathbot wrote:

A Lictor... BLOR!!! wrote:At the 2004 or 2005 (can't remember which) Gamesday in Baltimore, the guest speaker, Gav Thorpe, was basically asked this same question. He came right out and said that it would never really end as long as there were players. But if the galaxy did start to go down in flames, the "Good Guys" wouldn't win. This is a "gothic" setting, full of Grim Darkness, where hope is but a faint glimmer on the horizon, from which you are separated by a chasm of utter despair. Gav's line was something like "The good guys will lose but they're gonna be screaming and kicking their legs "Nooooooo" as the last nail is hammered into the coffin."

Then we still have no idea who will win. There is no such thing as "good" in the 40k universe. There are factions who are evil and factions who are more evil. That's it.

Or rather, just factions with varying views and opinions. Good/Evil is all in itself a matter of opinion. Neither one really exists in a definitive fashion because each side will always see itself as doing the right thing for their own people.

metallifan wrote:

Deathbot wrote:

A Lictor... BLOR!!! wrote:At the 2004 or 2005 (can't remember which) Gamesday in Baltimore, the guest speaker, Gav Thorpe, was basically asked this same question. He came right out and said that it would never really end as long as there were players. But if the galaxy did start to go down in flames, the "Good Guys" wouldn't win. This is a "gothic" setting, full of Grim Darkness, where hope is but a faint glimmer on the horizon, from which you are separated by a chasm of utter despair. Gav's line was something like "The good guys will lose but they're gonna be screaming and kicking their legs "Nooooooo" as the last nail is hammered into the coffin."

Then we still have no idea who will win. There is no such thing as "good" in the 40k universe. There are factions who are evil and factions who are more evil. That's it.

Or rather, just factions with varying views and opinions. Good/Evil is all in itself a matter of opinion. Neither one really exists in a definitive fashion because each side will always see itself as doing the right thing for their own people.

Ah, I see we have very different views then. I believe that good/evil is not subjective. If it is, you cannot condemn anyone for anything no matter how heinous their crime is. For example, if I walk up and stab your entire family to death in front of your eyes because I thought it would be best for me, you would think me evil. But I would hold the opinion that it was good. So was the act evil, or good?

who is going to win in the end?
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well by the way GW keeps exploiting their fans and caitering to prepubescent kids with their mommy and dadies credit cards i would say AT-43?

man I hate GW but i love 40k! life is confusing

On-Topic

Who is going to win?

The Chinese.


Off-topic

@Deathbot-There was already a thread for this discussion but seeing as I'm already addressing this:

Your question fails to consider several important factors.

1)Time-What point of history or future did you do this?
2)Situation, Was it during a war or an action of war? Was it done to spare them unnecessary pain? Were they dying of radiation poisoning or did they catch the T-virus?
3)Society-What is societies stance on your actions? Did you break any laws with your actions?

If one can find a time in history, a situation that would be deemed acceptable, or a society that would at some point find these action acceptable then the point is made the the concept of good & evil is situational/subjective. A matter of personal or national perspective that is dependent upon the situation.

Your question also brings up the points of unnecessary demonization and the assuption of a moral judgement by the other person.

If from here you want to bring up the why do we have laws question, I would reply that laws are not written to legislate morality but are written for the needs of society.
That the reason murder is against the law is not so much a point of morality but a matter of keeping society functioning peacefully.

Back On-topic:

@Fludit-Cool concept, that means I am an old one.

Your point does bring up the business model of a game reset and in this case GW views themselves as the old ones.

I truly believe that when the SM "flagship" stumbles with sales continue to drop, no matter how much advertising they get, that GW will reset the entire time line and game rather than allow another army to be their 40K flagship.

metallifan wrote:

Deathbot wrote:

A Lictor... BLOR!!! wrote:At the 2004 or 2005 (can't remember which) Gamesday in Baltimore, the guest speaker, Gav Thorpe, was basically asked this same question. He came right out and said that it would never really end as long as there were players. But if the galaxy did start to go down in flames, the "Good Guys" wouldn't win. This is a "gothic" setting, full of Grim Darkness, where hope is but a faint glimmer on the horizon, from which you are separated by a chasm of utter despair. Gav's line was something like "The good guys will lose but they're gonna be screaming and kicking their legs "Nooooooo" as the last nail is hammered into the coffin."

Then we still have no idea who will win. There is no such thing as "good" in the 40k universe. There are factions who are evil and factions who are more evil. That's it.

Or rather, just factions with varying views and opinions. Good/Evil is all in itself a matter of opinion. Neither one really exists in a definitive fashion because each side will always see itself as doing the right thing for their own people.

You are a very wise person mettaliafan.

In the end, there will be a mass exodus of imperials. And they leave behind Sly Marbo/Chuck Norris on Terra as a little surprise.

I don't know how one would be able to evacuate the whole Imperium. It would take some kind of tactical geni-CREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED!!!

We know how EF wants it to end. With blood angels sisters of battle wining.

And IG following behind.

But THAT ending is so obvious it's no fun looking forward to it.

well in some of the fluff no emperor no chaos gods cause they're part of his dream/mind conjuration stuff.

WarmasterScott wrote:well in some of the fluff no emperor no chaos gods cause they're part of his dream/mind conjuration stuff.

No the Chaos gods existed way before the Emporer. The Chaos Gods have always existed in some form or another much like slaanesh before he was "created" by the Eldar.
They probaly existed since the begininng of time but without a consciouness for some time, thats what ive always though.

and the same thing has been said about the emperor(that he has always existed).. its all speculation. chaos needs things like the Eldar and humans period.. and no offense man with all the changes in history can you say for sure no this is how it is then say uh ah idk maybe.. well this is what I think lol I'm going from facts that have been written not what I feel. What we feel doesn't mount to a hill of beans. We're not the writers lol

Im sorry but your wrong. In Horus Rising, Horus tells Loken that the Emporer was born in Anatoly.


Lexicanum is great for fluff, its not entirely reliable though:http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Emperor

What is undisputed in all accounts, is that he was born to mortal parents many millennia ago.

The Emperor, much later in his life revealed that he was born in the eighth millennium BC, and his birthplace as Central Anatolia.

The Emperor is the collective reincarnation of all the Shamans, the psyker-like individuals who guided early mankind with their wisdom and prophetic powers. But even before the birth of the Emperor, as humanity grew and progressed, the warp began to become increasingly disturbed, and the shamans began to lose their ability to reincarnate - instead, upon dying their souls were being consumed by the creatures of the warp. Eventually the shamans, unable to reincarnate, would become extinct, and without the shamans to guide them, humanity would fall prey to Chaos. All the shamans of earth gathered to decide what must be done. In the end they decided to pool their energies by reincarnating in a single body. The thousands of shamans, as one, took poison, and as one, died. A year later the man who would become the Emperor was born. He would be immortal and so no longer need to reincarnate. As he grew older his powers began to manifest. Over many millennia, he travelled among mankind, using his ancient wisdom to help where he could.