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The GW price "adjustment" happens every year in July, and they give retailers 3 months notice before hand.

Except for last year when the price of metal caught them by surprise and they raised prices on metal boxes in September. Even then they made sure to let retailers know as soon as they could.

I highly doubt there will be another emergency price rise this Winter. We need to save our bitching until this Summer, or we will wear ourselves out!

Well, I get a new Trade Order Form this week, that stretches out 3-6 months. I'll take a look at it when it comes in. But since my sales rep mentioned nothing about a price hike, I'd assume there's nothing changing. I'll get it on Thursday, see if anything changed.

oh goodness. Goldswords will be Platinumswords soon.

The GW price "adjustment" happens every year in July...

That used to be S.O.P. up until a couple years ago, but recent unstable international economies, currency exchange rates and raw materials prices influenced Games Workshop price rises in September 2008 and again around April 2009. Those are the most recent GW price rises and neither of them was in July of either year in which they occurred. They were also only about 7 months apart.

beef wrote:I actually cant understand why so many people who have supposedly left the hobby still complain about it on the interweb?

Nine years. I've been playing for nine years, since I was 10 years old (or almost half my life). As I watch other hobbies I could have become a part of (Videogames, sports) become cheaper and potentially more profitable (Look at videogame tournaments or sports scholarships), I watch my current hobby... grow more and more expensive while many of the converted models I made have been resigned to a permanent space on my shelf due to the very slim likelihood of GW returning their equipment combinations. Hell, consider that Orc & Goblin troll models have not changed in the last seventeen years. Now, also consider that the models have become $7 more expensive (or just under a 50% increase in their price) from their '04-'05 cost alone (I would offer their '92 price, but it appears the catalogue doesn't have prices listed). And they've been making changes like this across the board somewhat consistently in recent years.

When I started, I could buy a new army fresh off the presses at about 2.5-3K for the same cost (if not cheaper than) a new Videogame Console. Now? I might be able to squeeze out a min-model 2.5K list for the price of a new 360 ($300 USD), or could buy a used console and a handful of games for the same cost (assuming this-gen games: If I bought a console from last-gen, I could easily get myself a good condition Xbox or PS2 with a dozen-plus games at the same cost). Hell, look earlier in the thread: An army I could make five years ago, and can still make now, with absolutely no model change, is $140 cheaper five years ago. And the worst bit? That's using modern edition rules: Using last edition's codex, there'd be (since I'm taking Squigs, which were helluva expensive last edition as opposed to this one) even less money spent on the units. Can you give me a straight-up explanation as to why an army, with the exact same models in the exact same numbers, should be $140 cheaper five years ago?

I'm not going to leave the hobby: As I said, it's been nine years of my life. Leaving the hobby would feel like cutting out a part of myself. However, as long as I can manage the self control, I'm not giving a penny more to GW except where absolutely necessary to continue my participation (New Edition Rulebook, new Army Book for army I have), and even then it's going to be through discounting suppliers (Who can barely come close to matching the prices from five years back).

If Games Workshop wants more of my money (which they likely do), they're going to have to stop raising the prices on models that have not changed in the past decade. They're going to have to stop looking down on us "Veterans" (I don't consider myself in the same tier as the older Dakkadakka-ites, but I still consider myself a part of the hobby having been involved since before LotR, back in 3rd / 6th Edition) and grabbing Jimmy Eight-Year-Old's attention (Yes, I know I started young. However, they weren't pushing specifically at people my age when I joined: When I joined, 13+ was the age my GW seemed to push for. Now, my GW will push it towards anyone of nearly any age. And staff can get in trouble if they don't). Most importantly, they're going to have to return it back to a HOBBY, and not a BUSINESS. What happened to Bitz Order, that we were promised would return in a year or two better than ever? What happened to supplements and allies? What happened to the wonderful trial rules and stuff like General's Compendium?

Minsc wrote:

beef wrote:I actually cant understand why so many people who have supposedly left the hobby still complain about it on the interweb?

Nine years. I've been playing for nine years, since I was 10 years old (or almost half my life). As I watch other hobbies I could have become a part of (Videogames, sports) become cheaper and potentially more profitable (Look at videogame tournaments or sports scholarships), I watch my current hobby... grow more and more expensive while many of the converted models I made have been resigned to a permanent space on my shelf due to the very slim likelihood of GW returning their equipment combinations. Hell, consider that Orc & Goblin troll models have not changed in the last seventeen years. Now, also consider that the models have become $7 more expensive (or just under a 50% increase in their price) from their '04-'05 cost alone (I would offer their '92 price, but it appears the catalogue doesn't have prices listed). And they've been making changes like this across the board somewhat consistently in recent years.

When I started, I could buy a new army fresh off the presses at about 2.5-3K for the same cost (if not cheaper than) a new Videogame Console. Now? I might be able to squeeze out a min-model 2.5K list for the price of a new 360 ($300 USD), or could buy a used console and a handful of games for the same cost (assuming this-gen games: If I bought a console from last-gen, I could easily get myself a good condition Xbox or PS2 with a dozen-plus games at the same cost). Hell, look earlier in the thread: An army I could make five years ago, and can still make now, with absolutely no model change, is $140 cheaper five years ago. And the worst bit? That's using modern edition rules: Using last edition's codex, there'd be (since I'm taking Squigs, which were helluva expensive last edition as opposed to this one) even less money spent on the units. Can you give me a straight-up explanation as to why an army, with the exact same models in the exact same numbers, should be $140 cheaper five years ago?

I'm not going to leave the hobby: As I said, it's been nine years of my life. Leaving the hobby would feel like cutting out a part of myself. However, as long as I can manage the self control, I'm not giving a penny more to GW except where absolutely necessary to continue my participation (New Edition Rulebook, new Army Book for army I have), and even then it's going to be through discounting suppliers (Who can barely come close to matching the prices from five years back).

If Games Workshop wants more of my money (which they likely do), they're going to have to stop raising the prices on models that have not changed in the past decade. They're going to have to stop looking down on us "Veterans" (I don't consider myself in the same tier as the older Dakkadakka-ites, but I still consider myself a part of the hobby having been involved since before LotR, back in 3rd / 6th Edition) and grabbing Jimmy Eight-Year-Old's attention (Yes, I know I started young. However, they weren't pushing specifically at people my age when I joined: When I joined, 13+ was the age my GW seemed to push for. Now, my GW will push it towards anyone of nearly any age. And staff can get in trouble if they don't). Most importantly, they're going to have to return it back to a HOBBY, and not a BUSINESS. What happened to Bitz Order, that we were promised would return in a year or two better than ever? What happened to supplements and allies? What happened to the wonderful trial rules and stuff like General's Compendium?

The thing is, you're the exact type of vet GW doesn't want to cater to. You want it to be a hobby, not a busines...but reality is they are a business, and just like in real life, business comes first. Also, vets feel entitled to certain things because they've bought stuff already. Realisticly that doesn't keep a company in business. You ask what happened to bitz, and what happened to this and that? The reality is vets didn't buy enough of that stuff and it didn't make enough money to be worth it. So it got canned. When something doesn't sell at the supermarket, guess what happens to it? You think the supermarket will restock it?

Once again, if you're gonna successfully argue for change, you need to argue from a beancounter's perspective. The number people. Why should GW do your proposed changes? People complain about this or that. That's useless. Propose a real, practical solution that works.

Also, if you're not gonna give a penny besides the absolute minimum, well, I remember asking, "Isn't the customer always right?" when I worked for a Chinese company. I got laughed at. The response was, "No, the PAYING customer is always right." Why should a company cater to a customer that isn't going to give them more money? It's obvious what's in it for you, but what's in it for them?

scuddman wrote:Also, vets feel entitled to certain things because they've bought stuff already.

If you're saying I think I should get special treatment because I've been in the hobby nine years, that's false. However, I similarly don't think that GW should forget about their older hobbyists so quickly, or deny the current generation of hobbyists what my / last generation had. Do you think it's fair that people who joined in the last year or three can't use Bitz Order, a system that had been renown as one of the best? Or that they have to pay $5-$10 for the exact same thing someone else bought?

You ask what happened to bitz, and what happened to this and that? The reality is vets didn't buy enough of that stuff and it didn't make enough money to be worth it.

That would explain removing it, and I understand that: Keeping the system together was expensive. However, what happened to the quality of service then? What happened to the promise to return it better than ever? Furthermore, Veterans not using Bitz Order? Up until the day that Bitz Order was canned, my GW was getting constant influx of people who wouldn't even buy store boxes / blisters, but were instead using the computer & store catalogues to purchase bitz. Bitz Order wasn't something one in a dozen people used once in a blue moon: It was something that most of the shop used at least once a week if they were working on a project.

When something doesn't sell at the supermarket, guess what happens to it? You think the supermarket will restock it?

The thing is, it was selling. It was selling good in some places. This is more akin to "We are selling Campbells soup. 70% of our places are selling it, 10% of those almost as fast as we can shelf it. However, 30% of our shops aren't selling. As such, we're going to discontinue all sales of Campbells soup in all shops."

The response was, "No, the PAYING customer is always right." Why should a company cater to a customer that isn't going to give them more money?

scuddman wrote:Also, vets feel entitled to certain things because they've bought stuff already.

So, at the start of the thread you're saying "People who've paid for stuff shouldn't be entitled to certain / extra things". Then, later in your very same post, "People who are paying for stuff should be entitled to have their voices heard." Which is it, hm?

And no, I'm twisting no words around. First paragraph, you said no special treatment because you're a long-time veteran / hobbyist who's been buying stuff. Final paragraph, you're saying that a business shouldn't listen to you unless you're a paying customer. So if they don't need to listen to you while you're buying stuff from them, and then once you stop buying stuff from them because they're not listening, how are we supposed to change things around? Are we supposed to just take whatever we're given and pray that GW knows best? Are we supposed to become members of the company and modify the layout ourselves? Because, right now, there's no way for a hobbyist to influence the company: Just because you're paying for stuff, you're not to be given special treatment / listened to. If you stop buying stuff / never started because of the changes made in recent years, you're not to be given any attention because you're not a source of ready-cash for GW.

It's obvious what's in it for you, but what's in it for them?

Our money? If the sole reason we're not buying stuff is they're not listening to us, and the people who're already buying stuff aren't going to buy any less by listening to our demands (Show of hands: Who here on this forum that buys GW stuff would stop buying if, *Gasp* prices stopped raising in 5-15% increments almost annually, or *Gasp again* Bitz Order returned?), they're losing out more money.

Paying present tense is not the same as paid, past tense.

scuddman wrote:Paying present tense is not the same as paid, past tense.

So it's not that you're paying GW, it's that you must be paying them right now, frequently, and with no immediate plans to stop buying from them, otherwise you're in the "paid, not paying" category?

I liked the idea of bitz order, but it had some fundamental problems. First, there is this impression that they can make a specific piece separate or what not. While that was sometimes the case, it usually wasn't. So if you wanted a specifc metal arm, the whole model had to be made, the thinking was later on someone would bitz order the body, but when you've got lots of inventory and now you have to keep track of parts in inventory...yeah a mess.

Simply put, bitz grew too big and lost them tons of money...all just to provide a service. For the longest time it was there...to provide a service. But unless they tripled prices, it simply wasn't worth the hassle. And I don't think tripling the prices is a good solution either.

On top of that, warehouse workers are not GW gamers. They didn't know and still don't know what the difference between the pieces are. Mistakes frequently happenned. It was a mess.

I don't know, I don't like it either. I liked bitz alot, I would have liked for it to stay. But honestly I don't know what a real cost effective solution would be.


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Most vets are like you...they buy the absolute minimum to keep playing. That's not a "paying" customer. That's a I already "paid" customer.

This isn't specific to GW, this is specific to business.

It's simple common sense. You cater to the person that's going to give you your next paycheck. Just because you gave them a paycheck before doesn't mean that you'll give them a paycheck NOW or in the FUTURE. Trust me, I don't like the idea, but go to a car lot and openly say you have no interest in buying because you already have one. Watch the salesman go to other customers. You already bought one right? Maybe you'll buy another, maybe not...but the other customers that haven't bought one are much more likely to buy one. THat's it, nothing complicated about it. It's no different than a mcdonald's employee telling the next customer, "May I take your order?" He's already done with you, you've already paid, the next customer in line needs service and is paying.


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I'm a vet myself. I have a lot of friends that play GW. When I first got hired on way back in the day ( I no longer work for GW), I offered my employee discount to all of my friends. Employee discout is better than wholesale price.

Not a single person took me up on my offer. Why? Because they already had everything they wanted at the time. They only wanted stuff to turn around and sell on ebay or something, which I wasn't willing to do.

I don't know. I walked into GW wanting to see how things worked and to change things if I could. I found there's a lot of real world problems with the things that us as gamers and players wanted. It's not always that simple.

For instance, as a vet, I'm a big big person on game balance and good game design. But it's hard to show that putting resources into those things make the game sell better.

Sometimes I feel the internet posts are too reactionary. If I walked into a business meeting at GW and suggested that game balance should be better, they would fire back, "How much does that cost? Will we recoup our cost? How does that help us sell the game better? What about x problem or y problem or whatever?"

If it was that easy, someone would have dethroned GW already.

scuddman wrote: It's no different than a mcdonald's employee telling the next customer, "May I take your order?" He's already done with you, you've already paid, the next customer in line needs service and is paying.

That's a bad example since Mc Donalds wants you to come back again, and they still cater to you while you are actively using their product. I.E. sitting there eating your burger. So if you are a McDonald's veteran eater, they want you to eat more now, tomorrow, and next month. So they give you the Big Mac, the same one that's been around for 40 years, and you eat it. GW doesn't keep old rules or bring back units and make them viable again or keep "Old Reliable" around for 20 years.

Come up with a different analogy as the basis of your arguement is that once you buy something from GW, they don't care as they are done with you and moving on to the next new thing, for the next new dollar. That's more along the lines of a Software company. Sure you bought this game last year, but here it is again with shiney new features! The core is the same, but the focus is different. Look at a franchise like Call of Duty or Civilizations for example.

Before it was 10 man skirmish, then it was a small vehicle or two. After that it was 3-4 squads and maybe a vehicle, then came tanks and larger games. Then they drop points costs, eliminate X troop for Y Troop. THAT is how they get you to buy more. THAT is why some of us have 10,000 point armies on the shelf. It really is a sound strategy. Sure you don't have to like it, but you have to admire it. Of course I'm not happy that 30 marines 20 years ago cost $20.00 and now those same 30 marines cost $105.00.

Alas, it's a game. It's expendible income. Feel free to complain, but in the end, you don't HAVE to buy a damn thing from them.

You misread that. The mcdonald's example was to clarify the statement, "The Paying customer is always right" Has nothing to do with GW. And you're right, it might not have been the best example.


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TalonZahn wrote:

scuddman wrote: It's no different than a mcdonald's employee telling the next customer, "May I take your order?" He's already done with you, you've already paid, the next customer in line needs service and is paying.

That's a bad example since Mc Donalds wants you to come back again, and they still cater to you while you are actively using their product. I.E. sitting there eating your burger. So if you are a McDonald's veteran eater, they want you to eat more now, tomorrow, and next month. So they give you the Big Mac, the same one that's been around for 40 years, and you eat it. GW doesn't keep old rules or bring back units and make them viable again or keep "Old Reliable" around for 20 years.

Come up with a different analogy as the basis of your arguement is that once you buy something from GW, they don't care as they are done with you and moving on to the next new thing, for the next new dollar. That's more along the lines of a Software company. Sure you bought this game last year, but here it is again with shiney new features! The core is the same, but the focus is different. Look at a franchise like Call of Duty or Civilizations for example.

Before it was 10 man skirmish, then it was a small vehicle or two. After that it was 3-4 squads and maybe a vehicle, then came tanks and larger games. Then they drop points costs, eliminate X troop for Y Troop. THAT is how they get you to buy more. THAT is why some of us have 10,000 point armies on the shelf. It really is a sound strategy. Sure you don't have to like it, but you have to admire it. Of course I'm not happy that 30 marines 20 years ago cost $20.00 and now those same 30 marines cost $105.00.

Alas, it's a game. It's expendible income. Feel free to complain, but in the end, you don't HAVE to buy a damn thing from them.

Yeah, we had that discussion earlier about planned obsolescence. It's pretty insidious. But it's also why it's a successful business model.

Worth reading:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence

Did you happen to read it?

Wiki wrote:In the United Kingdom, planned obsolescence engineered into products is considered a breach of customer rights. The Office of Fair Trading and Trading Standards Institute investigate claims of products constantly failing just outside the warranty period. A famous case of this was the 'Click Wheel' Apple iPod, which many consumers found to fail within 18 months of purchase.[10]

As to your 'Paying customer' rule, you are either a customer or you are not. In the case of GW, you are either buying products or not, and anything extra is included with any services offered (returns, etc...). A 'paying customer', would be like saying, 'the real reality'. What in the hell does that mean?

If you receive a service (and none of this is really applicable to GW, given the nature of their goods/services), all said and done, like a new deck or house, or what have you; then decide to not pay, you are a thief. Not a 'non-paying' customer.

If you can only be right when you pay, why in the feth would the company change ? That makes absolutely no sense at all. In terms of car salesmen, the majority of people that buy cars, already have cars; and cars are ridiculously incomparable to tiny plastic soldiers. Did you know that all fruits and veggies come out of the soil? OUT. OF. THE. SOIL.

Madness I say... who would have thought it was so simple this whole time.

You're reading too much into it. It's not that complicated. You cater to the person that gets you your next paycheck. What they've done in the past is irrelevant. If it's repeat business, that's different, because they ARE giving your next paycheck. Most vets DON"T buy directly from GW anymore, they are NOT giving GW their next paycheck.
That's it.

The problem with planned obsolescence being illegal is that it's hard to prove. THere is planned obsolescence in most everything, just look at cars for example. Or Tv's. And yet, illegal or not, they are still doing it.

When some really rich senator donates to Harvard, his son gets in regardless of his grades. It happens all the time. Shouldn't that be illegal? And yet it keeps happening.
Maybe Wrex, you should sue GW for planned obsolescence. See how that goes.



Maybe a better more cut and dry example. Let's say I own a restaurant, and some guy keeps coming in and never buys anything. He's there simply to grab food after the customers are done eating and being a general nuisance. Most of the time, people are like, "Customers are always right! You should still give him the best customer service!" Well, he's not buying anything, so he's not a customer. I boot him out the door.

The next day, the guys is a little smarter. He buys the cheapest drink on the menu. "Ha! Now I'm a customer! You can't touch me!"
In this case, he is a customer, but is the customer always right?

I don't know, the Chinese don't think so in this case. Out the door he goes. But what do you guys think? Should I still treat him as a customer, even though he's not making me any money?



How about another example:
After throwing him out twice, he concedes he wasn't really a customer, because I didn't make any money either time. He comes in a third time, and this time fully pays for his meal and leaves properly after eating. He comes in the next day and is a general nuisance again. "You made money off of me! Now I'm a customer! You can't touch me! I demand you give me food again!"
What about now? He made me money before...once...but he's not making money for me now. Now what do I do? And if I let him get away with it, what will my real paying customers think?

scuddman wrote:You're reading too much into it. It's not that complicated. You cater to the person that gets you your next paycheck. What they've done in the past is irrelevant. If it's repeat business, that's different, because they ARE giving your next paycheck. Most vets DON"T buy directly from GW anymore, they are NOT giving GW their next paycheck.
That's it.

No it is a complicated issue that you are drastically oversimplifying. Your money goes to GW when you buy their new products. If it is in a box, wrapped and shiny, and not stolen, you paid GW in part through your purchase. That much, is simple.

The problem with planned obsolescence being illegal is that it's hard to prove. THere is planned obsolescence in most everything, just look at cars for example. Or Tv's. And yet, illegal or not, they are still doing it.

It is hard to prove because it is not there... Designing something to be perfect, and planned obsolescence are two different things. Having a faulty product can be indicative of many things about a company; PO is something that is usually very easy to identify. That makes it less likely companies will actually go about making a good design bad, for monetary gain. In general that is what PO is, taking something good, and making it worse on purpose.

Maybe Wrex, you should sue GW for planned obsolescence. See how that goes.

I never accused GW of planned obsolescence, you did.

Your Wiki link wrote:Planned style obsolescence occurs when marketers change the styling of products so customers will purchase products more frequently. The style changes are designed to make owners of the old model feel "out of date". It is also designed to differentiate the product from the competition, thereby reducing price competition. One example of style obsolescence is the automobile industry, in which manufacturers typically make style changes every year or two. As the former CEO of General Motors, Alfred P. Sloan stated in 1941, "Today the appearance of a motorcar is a most important factor in the selling end of the business—perhaps the most important factor— because everyone knows the car will run."[7]

This is as close as you will get with planned obsolescence through GW products/services. As a matter simple fact, even this doesn't hold up at all; your plastic soldiers from two decades ago, can be used in their same role today. If you play squats... too bad I suppose. It still is not planned obsolescence, it is supply and demand (no demand, no supply).

Maybe a better more cut and dry example. Let's say I own a restaurant, and some guy keeps coming in and never buys anything. He's there simply to grab food after the customers are done eating and being a general nuisance. Most of the time, people are like, "Customers are always right! You should still give him the best customer service!" Well, he's not buying anything, so he's not a customer. I boot him out the door.

The next day, the guys is a little smarter. He buys the cheapest drink on the menu. "Ha! Now I'm a customer! You can't touch me!"
In this case, he is a customer, but is the customer always right?

I don't know, the Chinese don't think so in this case. Out the door he goes. But what do you guys think? Should I still treat him as a customer, even though he's not making me any money?

How does that compare to a company that sells wargaming goods? I still don't understand what it is you are trying to argue here. There is no person buying dollar sodas (he is a customer BTW, a customer that bought a soda) then pillaging the remains of your other customers food, in this situation. They are still two separate issues at any rate though; you have a customer who bought a soda, then pillaged the remains of other customers food, causing a safety hazard/ liability issue.

A better example is Dark Eldar, they still sell them but don't support the product with updated rules... Still weak IMO but closer. There is a clear expectation in society that companies that sell products should support them.

It's not me who argued that GW makes things obsolete. <shrug> I'm perfectly fine with my army.

Okay, if he is a customer, how long is he a customer? Should I treat him like a customer even if I don't make money? Should I treat him like a customer even if he never buys from me again? What rationale as a business would I have to be willing to do those things?

So the lesson I learn here is that clicking refresh is a bad idea. Whoopsie. Triple post ftl.

agnosto wrote:A better example is Dark Eldar, they still sell them but don't support the product with updated rules... Still weak IMO but closer. There is a clear expectation in society that companies that sell products should support them.

What support does GW offer when you buy a product? I don't recall 'commonly accepted' business policies being the end all for anything corporate related.

When you buy a box of soldiers from GW, it comes with a pretty strong guarantee that defects will be replaced. That is about the extent of the 'warranty' offered to you. It is obvious that many DE players have been dragged into thinking that they may be getting a new army... right after Duke Nu- hmmm...

scuddman wrote:It's not me who argued that GW makes things obsolete. <shrug> I'm perfectly fine with my army.

Okay, if he is a customer, how long is he a customer? Should I treat him like a customer even if I don't make money? Should I treat him like a customer even if he never buys from me again? What rationale as a business would I have to be willing to do those things?

Do you mean offering mints to them or something? When it comes to the way that GW does business, there are no perks, just demographics.

The main point that I have been hearing, is that GW responded officially to requests for a Bitz service, and in doing so, indicated that they would be bringing it back online. To do that, then completely forget about it all of a sudden... is just stupid marketing.

I would not be a bit surprised to see higher prices coming on GW miniatures and it definitely wouldn't be anything new.

I remember buying WD magazine for $5.00, now it is $10.00. The sad part is that I am only interested in about 1/3 of the magazine (40K part), the rest is wasted paper as far as I am concerned.

I have heard complaints from retailers, especially the smaller ones, because they are being made to stock items that simply don't sale in their stores. More than anything, this practice is hurting many of the smaller shops, which is about all that we have in this area. Many of the shops have stopped selling GW all together no longer provide playing tables... instead offering the tables to alternative ( non GW games) game players and RPGers.

Because of the prices of GW products, I would not be surprised if more people turn to alternative games such as War Machine and Infinity.

Isn't this a form of planned obsolescence, like what clothing companies do in fashion?

I guess it's like a loophole. If unit A was really good in 1st edition, but now really bad in 2nd edition, it technically isn't planned obsolescence. Legally anyways.

But of course, guess what the person with Unit A thinks.

@Wrexasaur

LOL. Yeah, poor sots. It still is a bit sad that GW still sells the models, creating the expectation that it's a viable army.

I, personally, never would have bought a tau army if I knew I was going to lose most of the time (where's the fun in that?); but then, I suck at the game I guess.

I just thought DE would be a better example than squats as newer players may not even know what a squat is, except the verb.

It doesnt require a person to buy brand new GW product inside a GW shop for GW company to benefit.

Discount retailers? : GW benefit
ebay retailer ? GW benefit
Normal people like you and i selling our old GW items? GW benefit
Players using paper cut out to count as GW game to play warhammer? GW benefit.

agnosto wrote:@Wrexasaur

LOL. Yeah, poor sots. It still is a bit sad that GW still sells the models, creating the expectation that it's a viable army.

I think that most of the hype is actually from the gamers themselves, or at least was for a time. It kinda seems like GW may be behind some of the viral marketing as of late... just a scent in the air though, nothing substantial to back that up.

I, personally, never would have bought a tau army if I knew I was going to lose most of the time (where's the fun in that?); but then, I suck at the game I guess.

If you are trying to play a competitive, edgy, skillful game, try doing it without dice. , no way to beat lady luck when she is angry at you.

The main problem I have is with the inherent imbalancing in across the codices. I truly never expect this to change all that much, especially with how much half of the armies got nerfed due to the newest edition. I play Eldar, and I can pretty much fight any army given the right list, but there really isn't all that much pleasure in hammering my opponent with razor sharp dice; for me at least. There are still serious limitations with all of the older codices (Tau, Necrons, etc... especially) that make the game practically boring to play. With eldar, even though my footslogging lists can get ripped into tiny pieces by artillery... wait... all of them? SERIOUSLY?

I just thought DE would be a better example than squats as newer players may not even know what a squat is, except the verb.

Funny thing is that a solid mobile list with DE, can actually put some hardcore moves onto the new codices. Especially IG, with all that tasty, tasty armor lumbering around.

Wrexasaur wrote:This is as close as you will get with planned obsolescence through GW products/services. As a matter simple fact, even this doesn't hold up at all; your plastic soldiers from two decades ago, can be used in their same role today. If you play squats... too bad I suppose. It still is not planned obsolescence, it is supply and demand (no demand, no supply).

There was a demand for squats and they were a constant moderately good seller. They withdrew them because they didn't like them, not because they didn't sell. There are plenty of other examples more recent than 20 years ago. How about Dogs of War, or Chaos Dwarves? Then there's various individual figures in armies everywhere that are left with illegal weapon combinations or figures that no longer are supported. I'm not up to speed with the Tau, but didn't they lose some of their stealth suit miniatures after their first Codex? And currently it looks like support for the Witchhunters and Deamonhunters might be on the wane with reduced lists being published in future. Where that leaves people with large armies of such things I'm not sure. And now thinking about it, what about the Kislev army list published for 6th edition? Is that going to be updated? Are the figures still available?

Not sure about that, I could ask my friend about Tau though, he has been playing them for a while.

I can imagine it is pretty difficult to support such a wide array of armies, hence the saying, 'One day... Only imperial armies shall dwelleth here'...

I doubt that highly, but I would not doubt the possibility that many armies simply get trimmed off for sake of simplicity. WH40k is a pretty flexible game for the players right now, without the proper support of course... but I guess it is something. Not a really good something, but a something nonetheless.

The Tau Stealth Suit models swapped out, and they changed the general flow for them.

They went from being a Fire Warrior wearing basically what was a set of Powered Stealth Carapace Armor and carrying a burst cannon--to what they are now. Which is basically a scaled down Crisis Suit with Stealth characteristics. The older ones(XV15) are still available though, direct from GW only(I think) alongside the XV25s.

If these price hikes continue I may just quit all together. And I wouldn't even call it a boycott, I just wont war game anymore, as no other system interests me. Ill just spend my "hobby" money on something else entirely, though the books will keep my attention.

And I know a great many people who feel the same way. If they cant afford GW, they will just up and quit, and go back to Xbox live or WoW.

Obligatory:
This has not been confirmed, in any way, shape, or form as of this moment. This is currently the same credibility of rumor as "My brother's girlfriend's sister looked over the shoulder of a printing press technician and saw that the schedule has Codex: Pan Fo listed!"

Before you all continue crying that the world is coming to an end, think for a moment. Every price raise, GW has given vendors plenty of warning, and even announced it on their website. The lack of outgoing information on it pretty much puts this rumor down like Old Yeller.

Two-Step wrote:
I remember buying WD magazine for $5.00, now it is $10.00. The sad part is that I am only interested in about 1/3 of the magazine (40K part), the rest is wasted paper as far as I am concerned.

I have heard complaints from retailers, especially the smaller ones, because they are being made to stock items that simply don't sale in their stores. More than anything, this practice is hurting many of the smaller shops, which is about all that we have in this area.

Your local store is tacking on an extra buck then, since WD has a 9.00 price on the cover.

And about those complaints from smaller stores being MADE to stock items? Just not true.

-You can have a direct account with GW and order just what you want. You pay shipping. If the order is over 400.00, GW pays the shipping. This is standard in the game industry. If I order from Alliance, or ACD, I pay shipping, unless I'm over 300/350 dollars, and then they pay shipping.

-If a retailer stocks the bare minimum of plastic boxes and starter sets for all 3 systems, then GW lets you order any dollar amount, and get free shipping. Plus they give you 600.00 a year in prize support for your tournaments.

What you're hearing is "Waaaah! I just want to order 40k, and I want all the benefits other stores get! Waaaah!"

Nothing, Nothing, Nothing in GW's terms of business require a store to order certain items, or amounts from them. Nothing. Meeting requirments for a stockist store is easy. It's bare minimum to carry GW at all, in my opinion.

And if a store doesn't want to deal with GW, they can order it elsewhere, from a regular game distributor and tack it onto their normal order.

Can't sell what you don't have. What might be hurting those 'smaller stores' is not having enough stuff to sell. You won't get bigger by not having what your customer wants to buy.

Sorry for the rant. But it really gets me angry at times, simply because GW actually gives more support to games stores than any other manufacturer. And it's really easy for a store to get that support. But the ones that don't try, and don't order the product, don't deserve to get the support that others met the requirements for.