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^^^Spoilsport

nosferatu1001 wrote:Well - yes. Infantry that DS are only worth 1KP - I said this repeatedly.

The act of deepstriking itself is not what determines that DP and DS monoliths are worth 3KP, it is that they deepstrike *and* are vehicles. AS they are vehicles you *know* they have moved at cruising speed, whereas infantry only "move" - therefore one has moved between 6 and 12" and one hasnt.

Your "therefore" is incorrect - therefore a Drop Pod, DS Monolith are worth 3KP, a non-DS Monolith is worth 1KP and infantry, no matter how they turn up, are also worth 1KP.

You're just going to have to accept that I'm not changing my mind on the 6-12" issue as it stands. Lowinor and I have both given what I feel is strong evidence: "Cruising speed is a state, not a distance; one way it can be achieved is by moving 6-12", but it can also be gained by Deep Striking. Deep Striking alone does not mean, in game terms, that a vehicle has moved or has the potential to move greater than 6"."

If you agree? That's fine, though you should still talk to your tournament organizer if you plan to participate to make sure of how they are running it. Don't agree? Fine, and by all means play it that way. If you want to continue arguing, that too is fine, but the burden of proof does not rest with our side but with yours. Why do you think cruising speed = 6-12"? Give me a reason besides that one line you have from the rulebook, because I know what you think of it, and you know what I think of it. Posting it only means that you've got nothing else to stand on, and by equivocating, you are still just making stuff up.

Also, the reason I keep saying your proposal to deal with the Monolith is silly and dumb isn't because of the KP variable; in fact I could see that working in the rules depending on the unit. But no, the reason I think your Monolith proposal is silly and dumb because, under your reasoning, the Monolith cannot Deep Strike at all.

Duh.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Actually, Gorka was correct to point this out - THIS is the reason a DS vehicle is different to infantry, as infantry only "move", not "move at cruising speed".

Alright, I'll make this simple: if you agree with the argument as laid out by Lowinor and myself, that cruising speed does not necessarily mean you moved 6-12", then treating a spore pod as counting as 1KP for this mission but drop pods as 3KP, then you are hypocritical and probably get off by lighting boxes of kittens on fire.

So there.

A monolith *can* still deepstrike, even if it counts as moving above its maximum move - because it is specifically given an allowance TO deepstrike. Duh.

Yuor "keep it simple" - Except that is not what I am saying, at all. Therefore I am not being hypocritical.

Moving 6"+ makes you 3KP. If you accept that DS vehicles move above 6" when they DS they are worth 3KP. Spore Pods, NOT being vehicles, DO NOT count as moving above 6" and therefore are *never* worth 3KP.

Haha, I like you Nosferatu. You keep the crazy going 24/7. Now can we get a mod to close this thing since the FAQ is now out?

EDIT: Hahaha, jeez man it looks like you didn't even read my post: You have to accept my argument about cruising speed, which you don't, to even be called hypocritical of me. What's hypocritical is your Monolith ruling. A poster who doesn't follow his own rules argument, a shameful poster.

Lowinor wrote:

In the 40k rules, there are no kinds of Cruising Speed which are not moving 6-12”.

This is irrelevant and not strictly true as Deep Strike causes Cruising Speed as well.

That’s circular reasoning. You’re making your conclusion one of your premises.

Lowinor wrote:

So vehicles moving 6-12” cannot be a smaller sub-set of the larger cruising speed category. The two are synonymous.

This is an invalid inductive leap; there are no rules which state this. It's basically a rephrasing of the affirming the consequent fallacy; you're given p -> q, and assuming that without any other information about q, that q -> p also holds.

As Pretre pointed out, page 57 defines the different speeds a vehicle can move. We are given a list of speeds and their definitions. While the phrasing “'Moving more than 6 and less than 12 is Cruising Speed” is basically backwards of what we want, it seems clear to me within the context of the rules on that page and how they are organized that this is intended to be a definition, telling us how to tell that a vehicle is moving at Cruising Speed.

Affirming the consequent doesn’t apply because a) this is a definition, and b) there are no other items which can also fall into the “cruising speed” category, besides vehicles moving over 6”, up to 12”. So the two items are indeed synonymous.

bhsman wrote:Haha, I like you Nosferatu. You keep the crazy going 24/7. Now can we get a mod to close this thing since the FAQ is now out?

EDIT: Hahaha, jeez man it looks like you didn't even read my post: You have to accept my argument about cruising speed, which you don't, to even be called hypocritical of me. What's hypocritical is your Monolith ruling. A poster who doesn't follow his own rules argument, a shameful poster.

BHS, Nos’ arguments in this thread are entirely consistent. The DS rules specify that a vehicle which is Deep Striking counts as moving at Cruising Speed. Other unit types are only considered to be moving, with no indication that they are moving over 6”.

Anyway, since Trade Sales has now done us the favor of fixing the mission, we can all pat ourselves on the back and congratulate ourselves for helping make the issue clear to the organizers, so they did something about it.

Locking thread.