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purplefood wrote:Considering that all the Old Ones are dead...
Also Chaos has had more convoluted plans in the past.
And the Etherals are hinted at having some kind of control over the Tau but i'm not sure if there are hints at them being from an outside source.
More likely the Tau did it all through hard work and luck as much as it pains me to admit (I don't like them)
Out of all the other reasons i would choose Chaos gods.

But what of the lack of mutations and what not? As well as the other usual indicators of the taint of chaos?

People become corrupted by chaos more often then not through selfish means, they want power and strength, etc...

The whole ideology of the tau empire is to dispell such feelings.

Elbow Grease (IE no supernatural influence, just hard work and chance)

THE IMPERIUM GOD -Blam!- IT!!!
when the Imperium discovered the tau empire, they left equipment on the planet...

sluggaslugga wrote:THE IMPERIUM GOD -Blam!- IT!!!
when the Imperium discovered the tau empire, they left equipment on the planet...

:O It was all part of the plan.

The old ones merely went to hide, even the Necron Codex makes mention of it.

The Old ones that are left would not be supernatural, but a guiding hand of a more advanced species helping a less advanced one.

The only possible thing of the Imperium left to find was the wrecked starship the Tau found on their moon, left there after all the crew were wiped out by the warp-storm the Old ones used to protect the Tau, and why the Tau are striving to use logic instead of emotional overreactions.

The rest is the Tau working on their own now that they have "Grown up" hence why the storm abated and they are now roaming about.

Even if the old ones have died, I like to think that they have helped the tau. It just seems a bit of a coincidence that they expand extremely rapidly from out of nowhere just as the necorns begin to rise again.

My idea is that there may be just one old one left or possibly they have evolved beyond physical form. Either way, if it's one it's too risky for him to show himself and obviously they can't directly help if beyond physical form. However, the eldar know about the old ones and were around at the same time for a bit (I think, correct me if wrong) and the eldar can contact spirits so what if the eldar have been in contact with the last old one through soulstones and stuff while he hides. The eldar realise they are a dieing race and that they cannot defeat the necrons, especially the c'tan, so when the old ones in non-physical form created the perfect conditions for the tau to be non-over-emotional and completely logical, they also contacted the eldar and told them to help foster this new race as they would take the place of the most technolligically advanced race (currently held by the eldar) once the eldar had all passed from this universe. Therefore, the tau would be able to allow the 'good' to join them and live peacefully and could exterminate the others. So, the eldar although they have gone to war with the tau in the past are working for the greater good of the tau overall (they might go to war as they're not just going to give up craftworlds and might need the tau to change direction as they are headed along the wrong path).

The eldar don't announce this need to nurture the tau as the imperium wouldn't understand why the tau were needed to destroy the necrons, they could do it themselves. Also, it would make them one hell of a target, just imagine if the necrons and c'tan knew the old ones were assisting the tau, there would be all out attacks on every front. The imperium would also attack since this is solid proof that the tau will become a very serious, perhaps their worst threat if not cut off and stopped now. Also, I imagine Slaanesh at least would attack, get rid of the eldars last hope at survival, obliterate them morally.

So, it is the old ones guiding the tau while in spirit form or in hiding due to depleted numbers with the help of the eldar where needed, all to make sure that the c'tan can never rise to their full power again as with no, or few old ones left there would be nobody left powerful enough to stop them this time.

tantan628 wrote:Even if the old ones have died, I like to think that they have helped the tau. It just seems a bit of a coincidence that they expand extremely rapidly from out of nowhere just as the necorns begin to rise again.

My idea is that there may be just one old one left or possibly they have evolved beyond physical form. Either way, if it's one it's too risky for him to show himself and obviously they can't directly help if beyond physical form. However, the eldar know about the old ones and were around at the same time for a bit (I think, correct me if wrong) and the eldar can contact spirits so what if the eldar have been in contact with the last old one through soulstones and stuff while he hides. The eldar realise they are a dieing race and that they cannot defeat the necrons, especially the c'tan, so when the old ones in non-physical form created the perfect conditions for the tau to be non-over-emotional and completely logical, they also contacted the eldar and told them to help foster this new race as they would take the place of the most technolligically advanced race (currently held by the eldar) once the eldar had all passed from this universe. Therefore, the tau would be able to allow the 'good' to join them and live peacefully and could exterminate the others. So, the eldar although they have gone to war with the tau in the past are working for the greater good of the tau overall (they might go to war as they're not just going to give up craftworlds and might need the tau to change direction as they are headed along the wrong path).

The eldar don't announce this need to nurture the tau as the imperium wouldn't understand why the tau were needed to destroy the necrons, they could do it themselves. Also, it would make them one hell of a target, just imagine if the necrons and c'tan knew the old ones were assisting the tau, there would be all out attacks on every front. The imperium would also attack since this is solid proof that the tau will become a very serious, perhaps their worst threat if not cut off and stopped now. Also, I imagine Slaanesh at least would attack, get rid of the eldars last hope at survival, obliterate them morally.

So, it is the old ones guiding the tau while in spirit form or in hiding due to depleted numbers with the help of the eldar where needed, all to make sure that the c'tan can never rise to their full power again as with no, or few old ones left there would be nobody left powerful enough to stop them this time.

What if some Techpriests of Mars are on the planet, and the Ethereals are the representatives of these technologically advanced Techpriests. (obviously the Techpriests have better technology than the ones in the Imperiums service, since the Imperium is very strict about these things.)

I actually think the Tau self evolved into what they are today.

The only "Outside" intervention being the warp storms that stranded the planet. Some of you seem to think or at least believe that there was a HUGE storm surrounding the planet. But remember, any warp storm would have been contained in the immaterium, which can only be seen by a ship entering warp space, or a tear ie the eye of terror. The warp storm would (in theory) cut off the planet from warp travel, but not travel from craft traveling at sublight speeds

Granted, this storm may have caused atmospheric turbulence or what have you, but if it started causing odd ball events, superstition would run rampant, which would eventually lead to science which leads to technological booms.

We know imperials found the planet, and its highly plausible they left some things behind, so the Tau, as they evolved, found technology, found ways to incorporate it or improve upon it and there you go.

Its not all unlike human history. After WW2 ended, the US and Russia launched the biggest technological expansion we've seen. Just think, before the invention of the rocket and manned space flight, less than sixty years earlier, people were flying wooden aircraft covered in cloth ten feet off the ground in North Carolina.

its entirely plausible that a race, dedicated to exploration and colonisation, with a drive to succeed, could accomplish all the things that the Tau have in a short span of time. If they incorporated all the alien tech they could find or come across, think of how fast a race could potentially grow. Granted, it causes a lot of issues leaping from one technology to another, but it can be done, especially if EVERYONE is behind it.

At the risk of me sounding extremely stupid. Although the old ones are dead they created many races before they were all killed, the Eldar, the Krork and the Jokaero are among them but many are not mentioned. This could be nothing more than wishful thinking but it seems plausable that they created another race that may have now become involved with the Tau and helped to develop their technology, although the Eldar seems unlikely.

Looking at the Tau technology, you see skimmers, stealth and speed, which is similar to the technology used by the Eldar, which would make sense if they both had a siimilar reason behind the development of their technology, although don't quote me on this because the Krork technology could not be more different.

If this seems a bit too farfetched, elbow grease, the C'tan and Chaos are just too evil.

I love how this is like 7 months old and were still commenting. XD


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I like where ZeroWOlf is taking this. Is it also possible that the warp storm would spit things out, or tear them up and hurl them back at the planet? also for the tau to find...say an eldar ship or something? idk most of the fluff so sorry if im way off on this storm thing.

Its a great questionn really makes you thinkkk

DeepBeige wrote:I recently read through a Dakka Thread stating that the Tau obtained their technology unreasonably fast and that because of this they are illogical and (fluff wise) cheesy and overpowered. At first it just seemed like some hate at all yall Tau playas so I figured I'd just ignore it, but upon some degree of further thought I realized that it really is pretty true. It doesn't really make sense for the Tau to have advanced so rapidly, and honestly, it doesn't make much sense that they've managed to avoid any level of infighting and still have souls.

It is occasionally hinted at that the Ethereals receive their crazy mind control powers from some outside source. It is also unlikely that the Tau have just gotten too lucky to have developed such a sizeable and peaceful empire with just them and their buddies. I've heard it mentioned before that it's all possibly some elaborate scheme developed by Chaos, but I think that's about the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

I personally believe that the Tau have obtained their sudden unreasonable technological advancements and cold, logical, communist utopia with the aid and guiding of the Old Ones.

Their rise to power coincides with the return of the Necrons, the immortal enemies of the Old Ones. They have basically the same attitude towards the whole emotion thing that the Old Ones did, and they were magically protected by a warp storm for thousands of years just in time to avoid an exterminatus. Further note that warp storms rarely protect an area and instead cause some manner of chaotic sillyness.

Thoughts?

Check their timeline again. They aren't horrifically advanced beyond modern technology (railguns are in design now, or already exist today depending on who you listen to, the US military is looking at combat suits which boost strength and mobility, we have various drones now, etc) and in our historical timeline we've only got a roughly similar time on the books between 'primitive' and space flight. There is 0 reason outside of imperial mindset to assume the Tau had outside help (and that only because the Imperium actively stops advancement in a proper manner due to GW fluff reasons).

Second, the Ethereals don't have super crazy mind control. Even the Tau dex talks about times they have been questioned or ignored.

Well.


1. Many of the themes running in the Tau are (IMO) a riff of Asimov. The trade-offs between individuality/freedom and, quote, "the greater good" of society are a constant in his book, notably his robot stories but, perhaps more importantly here, his Foundation Series.

2. The Foundation Series starts on the premise of a 12,000-year-old Galactic Empire that gives the appearance of stability, yet beneath this façade it is suffering a slow decay.

3. The namegiving foundation and second foundation are inclusive Empires artificially created to mitigate the collateral damage of the big Galactic Empires inevitable/foretold collapse.

As such, I always read the manipulation behind the Tau Empires evolution (close to the Empire, conveniently hidden by Warp Storms, artificially accelerated technological evolution, sudden appareance of the Etheral out of "a night sky with lights and flashes" seems conveniently close to a 40K "1000-year-plan"; e.g. an artificially created Empire, inclusive of foreign species and races, emphasing "the greater good" over individualism, as an anchor to mitigate/shorten the chaos and "age of darkness" after the Imperium of Man's probably/foretold/inevitable collapse.

Thus, it seems logical that a race/player with the ability of precognition/farsight is behind the manipulation of the Tau into a space-faring civilization. Likely candidates would be either the Eldar or a faction within the Imperium itself. While the Eldar may not like the IoM, it's conceivable that they would think the galaxy-wide chaos of the Imperiums Collapse as not a good thing either.

Given the size of the IoM, there are likely more than one "Tau Empire" (meaning artificially accelerated "back-up" civilizations) around its borders.

Largely my take on it.

I personally think the progression of Tau technology is not unreasonable. In point of fact, given the 6000 year timetable from the mastery of simple tools to their current level, it is not unreasonable to assume they developed only a bit faster than humans. And if we had had a group of leaders who were capable of population-wide mind control come around in the Dark Ages, we would probably have advanced much faster in the ensuing 700 or so years.

That being said, I think the Ethereals are the real power behind the Tau ascension. If some kind of targeted attack against them were to be made, removing them and the genetic possibility of more of them, the Tau would be pretty hosed.

Again, just my opinion.

got to agree with the last poster, +10

The old ones merely went to hide, even the Necron Codex makes mention of it.

The Old ones that are left would not be supernatural, but a guiding hand of a more advanced species helping a less advanced one.

The only possible thing of the Imperium left to find was the wrecked starship the Tau found on their moon, left there after all the crew were wiped out by the warp-storm the Old ones used to protect the Tau, and why the Tau are striving to use logic instead of emotional overreactions.

The rest is the Tau working on their own now that they have "Grown up" hence why the storm abated and they are now roaming about.


Because GW never closes off a possibbility, the Necron 'dex said that the civilization,. not the race of the Old Ones died out, the rest hid from the Enslavers. I actually poured over and researched every bit of info I could regarding the Tau, that was how much I immersed myself into the concept. Eldar were used to get a pheromone emitting gland so thet the Old Ones could make the Ethereals, to help calm the Tau down otherwise the warfare would have killed off the Tau, they also made the long lasting warp storms that protected the Tau for so long. Other than the DNA changes, the Tau tech developed along the lines the Tau figured worked best for them

I never really considered any other possibility other than good old elbow grease on the Tau's part, that and the fact they were secluded by a raging and long lasting warpstorm.

But after reading through this thread I am utterly convinced that the Tau were more of another "Zoo" type project of the Old Ones. Kind of a test to see what would happen If Greater Good directed/pheromone controlled race were left undisturbed for thousands of years.

Unreasonably fast? Like, going from "If Man were meant to fly, God would have given him Wings" to "Huston, the Eagle has landed" in the space of a century? Like computers getting twice as fast, and half as large, every year for over two decades?

The only 'unreasonably fast' part about the Tau is how they were able to colonize so many planets in different star systems so quickly- and that's only if there isn't some sort of Tau tech for near-or-faster than lightspeed communication, which there probably is.

@Shooms: Oh and the exclusion of psyker ability to avoid losing the warp bending powers of the Old Ones that remain as they do not play with tainted Warp so the Old Ones stay away from the E.o.T.

@Anvildude: Their old fluff was that they used a series of waystations and fast couriers to deliver messages, like a space faring version of "Pony Express" But I do see Tau necessity leading them to develop a hyperwave or subspace comms system that they can use in lieu of the Psykers the Imperium uses.

Elbow Grease all the way. But if GW has to choose a twist for the Tau make it the Old Ones.

Gretchin....believe me...gretchin

No, its Mekboys.

The eldar using the Q'orl to manipulate the tau (from Xenology) is something NOT corroborated from any other source.

Despite the fact they also drew FEET on the Tau corpse, instead of the hooves they are supposed to have.

Xenology is at best, a doubtful hypothesis (unsupported).

Ledabot wrote:the eatherals have feet as aposed to hoofs and they can fudge peoples minds. that is the only diffrence i can see. the warp is called the warp because it warps?

I wasnt aware they had feet. based on this is it possible that the DNA of Tau is mixed with humans or eldar? thus giving them the psychic edge they would need to control the rest of their race?. But as for the OP question i would probably say old ones or eldar. for one i dont believe chaos would do anything to help a race so able to defeat them , unless it was there intention that the ethereals would be corrupt and keep the tau in the dark ages. i dont think it can be the c`tan, just for the fact that they are so inherently evil. and none of the other races strike me as being able to do the job. as for elbow grease, it would have been feasible if not for the weird arrival of the ethereals.

Well, after looking in this thread and then some fluff, I'm more convinced that the old ones did it. There's many good points to eldar being the guilty and even a few to C'tan.

But the old ones, well, several times several people mentioned that it was never mentioned that they were wiped out, and that some (or many) of them ascended.

Imo, this gives us two alternatives (just go with me on this old ones theory for a second):
1. Some of the survivors got their hands on some tau and modified their genes. I mean, we do it today even though it's not that complicated, but give us another couple of thousand years and the tech to that well then... It's not impossible.
2. If they ascended, then they could, very theoretically, take control or change the mind of a tau. I mean, I don't know what is possible once you have ascended, so I wouldn't discard that theory. Until proven wrong, of course!

And then we actually got a third option:
3. The tau-race is older than 6000 years. The peace (as far as I understand) has lastet that long. What says that the didn't create them from scratch, so to speak, all that time ago?
Less plausible, I agree, because then their race would be oooold. But still; they were violent until the etherals came along. How bloody wars? How long lasting? In war you tend to FINISH technology and bring it to use faster. The nuclear and radar research had been going on for some years when WW2 started, but it was then leaders saw the pros. As far as I know, and correct me if I'm wrong, most advancements during WW2 was improvements.

But during the Cold War we saw a lot of new techs. My dime is that it's the threat of war that creates new technology, and war that makes it perfect.
And well, as many said, we have developed our technology pretty fast in the last 100 years, but there's still a lot of things we don't know anything about and no mather how high-tech they seem for us now, 100 years after their discovery the first models will be primitive. Just look at cars today and 100 years ago. Then take a guess on how the cars in 100 years will look.

So that's that. There's probably a few holes in my theory, but it's a little late and it's been a heavy day.

And a second-to-late-realisation on the tech: In some books (firewarrior and chiapas cain for example) their weapons is described to be firing plasma rounds. And in a previous post there was a mention of the tau finding a wrecked alien ship. Well, is it that impossible that it was an imperial ship with some plasma weapons on it that the tau reversed-enginered?

NOW I'm done.

think about it, look at all the luck and good fortune that have befallen the tau:
-a warpstorm destroys the imperial fleet sent to wipe them out
-a new group of highly influential and potentially mind-controlling/influencing beings appear (ethereals) just as the tau are about to wipe themselves out with war
-they find a crashed warp-capable ship just as they are experimenting with FTL travel.
-the tyranids and other threats draw away the Imperium from finishing the Damocles Crusade and wiping out the tau

all this points to either the eldar or perhaps an old one in hiding influencing and protecting the tau to perhaps use as a weapon. and we all know thta the eldar have a penchant for making complicated plans thousands of years in advance to accomplish some mystery goal

My view. In the recent era, we had the Eldar empire running the galaxy. As stated in the backstory, the Eldar visited Earth and noted the primates and primitives swinging through the trees and instead of terraforming they left them be.

Through the ages Humans managed to expand and carve out an Empire through use of technology (STCs) and managed to expand rapidly. After some time the Eldar empire fell leading to the Age of Strife.

Now we have the Eldar being a fading power, the Imperium running the galaxy. They visit the Tau worlds. They note the primitives chucking spears at each other and mark the world for possible colonisation and forget about them. Some time later, the Tau set up a little pocket Empire and begin to use advanced tech to carve out a niche.

Seems even in 40k, things run in circles. You can almost imagine the future - the Imperium falls, Humans become a fading power, the Tau the dominant force. They visit a world with primitives and in their belief note to return when they have space flight so they can welcome them to the greater good. They return centuries later to a world. They discover a pocket Empire with advanced tech who see's through the greater good ruse/decide to run things themselves/whatever and the cycle begins again!

interesting parallel you draw there....

The reason why the Tau got so advanced so quick is because the main planet where they came from was sucked into a warp storm, and once it got out of the warp storm a new empire emerged. As we know stuff happens differently in the warp, so go ahead and use your imagination with what happened while they were in the warp.

im pretty sure that the Tau would notice being sucked into the warp, even as primitives.

the very ground becoming blood hordes of daemons bursting out of your face is a pretty good hint that you arent in kansas anymore.