Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I still think it makes sense that they've outstripped the Imperium, I mean, the Imperium, even during the Crusade, was out to recover it's lost technology, and honestly the 41st Millennium has seen them lose more technology. The Tau are entirely committed to new technology, and have none of the superstitions mankind does, (I.E. The Omnissah and Emperor accepting new inventions, the Ecclesiarchy and Terra's censorship of new ideas, etc.) They are also noted to live shorter, so they would experience things faster than a human would, not Eldar speed, but since they live shorter lives they'll probably advance in less time, being pressured by earlier death.

The old ones only guidance was the fact they made the tau, apart from that they are functioning as intended. I think the tau in certain ways are beyond man technologically (even DAoT man)in personal weapons, aeronautics and agriculture for sure. In others they are (comparitively) pitifully unadvanced, personal defence and warp technology spring to mind. Oh and since when were ALL the old ones dead?! All that is ever said is that they have moved on or are in voluntary exile, Not dead! (the enslaver plague and the birth of chaos near destroyed them after the war in heaven but it never says they all died).

Communism(if implemented correctly) moves mountains. Nuff' said.
Also, unlike humanity they united very early, so they didn't have to deal with wars an all.

The reason the Tau were able to gain so much technological ground so fast is that the presence of the Ethereals allowed the race as a whole to focus on the greater good, as opposed to other reaces such as humanity which were distracted through their whole development by infighting between nations and peoples. The influence of the Ethereals brought all of the Tau together to work on the goal of improving the race as a whole.

The mystery comes in when trying to work out where the Ethereals first came from. There's no record suggesting the gradual emergence of one group of Tau who could exert increasing levels of control/influence over others, which would be expected had the Ethereals evolved naturally amonst the Tau. Instead, they appeards fully formed during the darkest period of Tau history, and lead the Tau to peace and Prosperity.

It seems likely that the Ethereals are not entirely natural. Xenology very strongly implys that the Eldar were involved with the creation of the Ethereals, and provides far more evidence for this idea than I have ever seen in any cannon source supporting any other origin for the Ethereals.

Since one of the strongest (the strongest - unless there are some really strong hints in some other source that I've never heard of) cannon suggestions is that the Eldar are responsible, It seems logical to concludes they probably are, at least until we get more evidence. So I'm slightly baffled to see they're not an option on the poll, and there isn't even an option for "other" so I can't actually vote for anything which even vaguely reflects my opinion on the matter.

Did it explain why the eldar might have done this? And how long ago was this darkest period in Tau history?

ChaosGalvatron wrote:Did it explain why the eldar might have done this?

Yes.
A race (heavily hinted to be the eldar) aided the Q'Orl in defending a swarmworld beset by a "corrosion" (possibly referring to Chaos). Once the swarmworld was safe, the Q'Orl's allies insited that in return for their help, they be allowed to take the Q'Orl's great queen, and I quote "to build a swarm uncorroded". When the Q'Orl refused, their rescuers stole away the queen in secret and left.

If the "corrosion" mentioned in the Q'Orls histories is indeed chaos, the reference to "a swarm uncorroded" could easily refer to the warp-resistant Tau race.

The Q'Orl have a diamond-shaped crystal gland in their head connected to their brain. It is astonishingly similar to the diamond-shaped organ found in the forehead of the Tau Ethereals.

ChaosGalvatron wrote:And how long ago was this darkest period in Tau history?

I don't know if any source specifies the actual time when this happened. The period was known as the Mont'au, where the waring factions of the Tau race were pushing each other close to extinction. More info:
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Mont'au
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Tau#Early_Tau_History

Codgod has one me over.
I cannot say that the points he makes are not relitive. Lexicanum also talks about this.
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Ethereals

It references this from pg62 in Xenology.

It might just be me but 6000 years seems like plenty of time to go from stone age to advanced technology so long as no major setbacks occur and taking into consideration the rather inquisitive nature of the tau.

Zuul wrote:It might just be me but 6000 years seems like plenty of time to go from stone age to advanced technology so long as no major setbacks occur and taking into consideration the rather inquisitive nature of the tau.

think about it Civilisation in europe in 4000BC was pritty basic.

Quite interesting.
Thanks for that CodGod.

6000 years would be alot of time to develop in a utopian society. the greeks of our world were apparently capable of making electricity, and the fall of the roman empire set western civilisation back centuries. Without major conflict a lot could be achieved.

Of course, when judging the time taken for a civilization to reach high technology, we don't really have much to go on. It's perfectly possible that 6000 years is the norm, and humans are exceptionally stupid when it comes to screwing up our own progress with wars and so on - we don't know.

We certainly had many civilizations in our history who got really far (further than we usually give them credit for today - the ancient Greeks had basic elevators, for example), only for that knowledge to be lost to humanity as a whole when the guys from the next civilization over, who'd spent their time making sharper sticks instead of learning things, decided they needed more space/slaves/skulls for the skull throne.

I certainly think it makes sense that the Tau got there much faster than us once they had the Ethereals, since they put a stop to the wars and rivalries which could have gotten in the way of Tau progress. Humanity never had anything like that.

As for the origins of the Ethereals, assuming Xenology's still cannon and hasn't been retconed yet, which could happen, it seems pretty clear that someone took a Q'Orl queen and used it to engeneer the Ethereals. It's implied that it was the Eldar, but it might have been another race. My personal belief is that the Eldar saw the early Tau and noted their warp-resistance, and decided to give them a push along the path to civilization so that they might eventually be useful as an ally/distraction/something else against chaos/IoM/whoever else. It seems like the kind of thing the Eldar might do.

Elbow grease. Although the Old Ones sound compelling, it's not their style to create a supreme caste that controls people through mind control, as it has been hinted at that the Ethereals do.

And to all of you who say the Old Ones are dead, Snicker please! I am sure there is a couple of them left, fighting desperately to survive and making more freaky experiments to aid them in their struggle.

But now that I think of it... Isn't it said somewhere that Tau doesn't register in the Warp? Like, their soul doesn't reflect to daemons and such.

CodGod wrote:Of course, when judging the time taken for a civilization to reach high technology, we don't really have much to go on. It's perfectly possible that 6000 years is the norm, and humans are exceptionally stupid when it comes to screwing up our own progress with wars and so on - we don't know.

We certainly had many civilizations in our history who got really far (further than we usually give them credit for today - the ancient Greeks had basic elevators, for example), only for that knowledge to be lost to humanity as a whole when the guys from the next civilization over, who'd spent their time making sharper sticks instead of learning things, decided they needed more space/slaves/skulls for the skull throne.

I certainly think it makes sense that the Tau got there much faster than us once they had the Ethereals, since they put a stop to the wars and rivalries which could have gotten in the way of Tau progress. Humanity never had anything like that.

As for the origins of the Ethereals, assuming Xenology's still cannon and hasn't been retconed yet, which could happen, it seems pretty clear that someone took a Q'Orl queen and used it to engeneer the Ethereals. It's implied that it was the Eldar, but it might have been another race. My personal belief is that the Eldar saw the early Tau and noted their warp-resistance, and decided to give them a push along the path to civilization so that they might eventually be useful as an ally/distraction/something else against chaos/IoM/whoever else. It seems like the kind of thing the Eldar might do.

I was thinking maybe the Eldar were planning on using them against chaos, since it sounds like they are basically a race of Nulls. But Tau wont be capable of fighting chaos for thousands of years and its not like the Eldar plan ahead or anything. OMG!

old people...i mean ones

Sorry I didn't include the Eldar as an option. I honestly had never heard anything about their involvement, but it makes sense.
Therefore, due to popular demand I'll add the Eldar to the list of options.

Also, just in case anyone thinks it may be space slugs or secret Nazi experiments or witchcraft I'll add an "Other" option as well.

Let's look at the facts from the actual Tau codex. The Tau USED to be violent, with all the different castes fighting, constantly. The Tau changed, suddenly. At the same time, all around the world, Ethereals appeared. Out of nowhere. They are the ones that united the Tau with their concept of the Greater Good. This also heralds in the sudden technology increase. In a period of, what, less than a couple thousand years? Maybe less than a thousand? The Tau went from barely having gunpowder weapons to Space Flight, pulse weapons, interplanetary colonization, etc. etc.

The book Xenology, while not specifically canon I suppose, is well written, and highly important to this argument. Sure, the main character went insane at the end, but all of his findings up to then were and are completely valid. (The Necron Lord was using him as a tool, all the information he gained was going to be used by the Necrons, in case you missed the whole point.) Therefore, the revelation that Tau Ethereals have a special... gland? In their brain that seems similar to yada yada yada from another race, is a vital fact. It's used to subtly exert influence over other Tau. That is also why Farsight went rogue. The Tau codex, and I think a couple books, say that he only turned from the Path of the Greater Good when his accompanying Ethereal was killed.

*side note* It's also hinted at that the 'Communion Helm' the leaders of the Vespids wear is similar in function. It enables communication, but they make it sound like it also lets them exert undue... Influence, over the Vespids. It's one of those nice hints that the Tau's utopia is a little more sinister than we seem to think.

The Ethereals were clearly introduced by an outside influence. That's undeniable. They are tampered with Tau, custom designed to exert control and provide drive and focus for their entire race.
The candidates? Let's look.
Chaos Gods: Nope. Why would they create a non-psychic race? The Tau are immune to the lure of Chaos. They have no psykers. All the halmarks of Chaosy evil are nowhere to be found. Ergo, I believe that it's not possible that the Chaos Gods made the Tau.
C'tan: the dark gods of the Necrons. Possible. It's hinted at that Cmdr. Farsight's weapon blade thing is a 'cron artifact. However, as everyone knows, the Necrons are anti-living things. They wouldn't create a race, they wouldn't do anything but wipe out intruders. They are the least likely of candidates, but... I won't rule them out entirely. The C'tan CAN be sneaky. I just don't think it's them.
Elbow Grease: Nope. The Ethereals were introduced. Someone had SOMETHING to do with this.
The Eldar: Eh, possibly. But the Eldar were created by the Old Ones with psychic powers to battle the Necrons, wayyyy back when. Sure, they had the powers of the stars at their command, etc. But it doesn't seem like something they'd do. There isn't much evidence that the Eldar traipsed across the universe messing with other races. They might meddle a little bit, but it seems to me that the Eldar wouldn't go to such extremes for some little race at the edge of the galaxy. They have problems of their own.

The most obvious choice for me is the Old Ones. Ooooooohhhhh, Mysterrriiiiiooouuuuusssss! It bears all the halmarks of traditional Old Ones style meddling, influence, and handiwork. They seem to have been custom designed from the beginning to counter specific threats, I.E. Chaos and the Necrons. The Tau are technologically advanced enough to give battle to the Necrons, and they have no psychic signature or presence, rendering them immune to the taint of Chaos. They were Further meddled with upon the introduction of the Ethereals. The 'perfect race' to battle these specific threats was unified and hurtled forward technologically, just as the Necrons are beginning to re-emerge. I'm not 100% convinced that it's the Old Ones, but by my reasoning, it seems like the best choice out there.

fine I'll reread the Tau parts of Xenology. I own it but I didn't think it was very good.

@B'en: I'm not convinced of Old Ones either for the simple reason the Old Ones are long, long, long dead in M34. What about the Q'orl themselves?

@KamikazeCanuck, I have to give you that one. As far as we know, they're long dead. But they fit the bill! haha. I am Convinced that someone tampered with the Tau. As far as the Quorl go, I'd have to re-read Xenology, but I don't see such a minor, unknown sort of race being that powerful or advanced. I didn't rule out All the other choices, but they don't seem all that likely. The Eldar... eh. Not their style, in my honest opinion. Creating an entire race Long after The Fall doesn't seem possible. I've already ruled out Chaos. And I'm Pretty sure it was the Emperor himself, haha. Necrons... eh, again, unlikely. And it Wasn't the 'nids, or orks. I'm just not sure. The Old Ones seem the best candidates, besides the fact that as far as we know they're all dead...

RE Eldar: exactly doesn't seem their style. If they had some plan to repopulate 100 worlds in 6,000 years they use it on....themselves. They've got enough problems without making new species for fun.

<comment removed. Please don't post things like this on Dakka.>

Elbow Grease all the way. The Tau aren't dissimiliar from current real humanity. Our own technology progresses at an exponential rate and we can't even claim unity.

Its that damned 5th Chaos God.. whatever the hell his name is !!!

none of the above. It was ME!

I think the Tau prosper because theyreally try to make things better. They get out there, meet and befriend other races, and generally work towards the "great good." Its not surprising to see their tech jump as they are in contact with civilizations with advanced tech and the Tau are VERY good about adapting and bringing in new things to their civilization. The Etherals guide them well, and theyre around by some sort of evolutionary advancement I would wager. I dunno, all theory to me. But the Tau are really cool and seem to be the "good guys" in the 40k universe.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:RE Eldar: exactly doesn't seem their style. If they had some plan to repopulate 100 worlds in 6,000 years they use it on....themselves. They've got enough problems without making new species for fun.

While I see where you're coming from, I don't think this necessarily makes sense. It's (potentially) easy for a more advanced civilization to help a less advanced civilization than to advance themselves. They didn't really have "a plan to repopulate 100 worlds in 6000 years", they had a means to significantly increase the advancement of a very primitive civilization - bringing the Tau up towards (not to, at least yet, but towards) the level they themselves were already at. Since the Eldar weren't a primitive civilization on the verge of wiping itself out with war, of course their own civilization wouldn't have benefited from the influence of the Ethereals in the way that the Tau did.

As for the Q'Orl themselves, I can't check 'til I get home, but I believe that they, like the Tau, had no access to warp travel, and were located on the other side of the galaxy, making it unlikely the two races would have ever met.

d.fear wrote:none of the above. It was ME!

I'm convinced. The mystery is solved!
Now please use your great and powerful influence over the Tau race to give the Ethereals decent rules.

I'm thinking that the idea of the Old Ones being involved is a good one.

It is mentioned a few times about the crashing of the ship onto the Tau world, along with the fact that the Ethereal suddenly appeared from nowhere the moment before the Tau race died.

Perhaps some kind of safe guard created by the Old Ones before the liveforms they had created died off? The Ethereals merely being enhanced forms of the Tau life forms. This can also be based off the information put forward before that a few of the organs inside the Ethereals are also encountered in Eldar.

They also live REALLY quick. I think their normal span is like 40 years, so I'm guessing their reproduction rate is quite high...

d.fear wrote:none of the above. It was ME!

This.


Seriously though, I don't see the Tau as being engineered. They're just one of the many upstart civilisations, except this one 'got away' (meaning they weren't immediately ground into the dust by a bigger fellow). At most I can see evidence to support rumours that Ethereals may have been tampered with, but no more.

It WAS YOUR MUM.

The Taucron Empire will rise from the ashes of this world and consume all flesh and bone!