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Thank you very much for the wonderful reports! Question: Why during the last game did you cast hammerhand more than force weapons? It seems like force weapons could have been more useful against the paladins and dreadknights.

I don't know why the third round opponent would choose Draigo as his General. I would have chosen the much cheaper Inquisitor in order not to give up so many victory points. Also why wouldn't he assault a ven dread with the Dreadknight? It's 60 victory point higher than the regular dread he ended up assaulting. Interesting....

DarthDiggler wrote:I don't know why the third round opponent would choose Draigo as his General. I would have chosen the much cheaper Inquisitor in order not to give up so many victory points. Also why wouldn't he assault a ven dread with the Dreadknight? It's 60 victory point higher than the regular dread he ended up assaulting. Interesting....

Do you know how hard it is to kill a Venerable Dreadnought? They are tough to kill! IMO, Bobby made the right decision by going after the easier Dreadnoughts.

In retrospect, he probably didn't expect Draigo getting insta-gib by Crowe.

SabrX wrote:Wow, that was a bloody final match. Lot's of melee with almost both sides losing all their infantry.

It's funny how the Crowe gets the last laugh after taking out his own GK Supreme Grand Master. Mutiny is fun!

Congrats beating Bobby and winning 2nd place! Also, congrats to Gus for winning 3rd and Janthkin for winning 1st. I look forward to reading future battle report of the Semifinals.

Thanks for sharing, jy2.

Yeah, it was a bloody fight. Unfortunately, except for the 1 multi-assault involving my vindicare, I sucked so much in assault. If only my assault was a little more average, I think it could've been a massacre win for me. What should have been an uphill battle for Bobby's grey knights turned out to be another war of attrition and a bloody tough fight for me. So far in my battles against Bobby, it's been like that. I take the early (and commanding) lead. He then storms back and makes it a hard-fought battle. It was easy for Bobby to just give up, but he never did. Instead, he always gave me a spectacular fight.

You never really take out Draigo. He just goes back to the Warp and reappears sometimes decades later, trapped in his accursed never-ending battle with the daemon hordes. He's just taking a little break from his never-ending war to spar with some young GK upstarts.

Backfire wrote:

SabrX wrote:
It's funny how the Crowe gets the last laugh after taking out his own GK Supreme Grand Master. Mutiny is fun!

What mutiny? Standard precaution, more like. The guy had been in the Warp, no telling under what kind of influence he was acting...

Nah, he's just showing the young 'uns how the old timers do it.

Grenat wrote:Three great reports !
Thank you for sharing. That was very interesting and pleasant to read.
I never really liked GK, but I must admit now that they seems highly entertaining to play with. And Crowe seems to be the man to annoy people out there

Above all, congratulations for your 2nd place ! Good luck for the semi !

Shhh! Be quiet. Many people still don't know how good Crowe is, so don't tell them.

Don't worry. You're not the first, and you won't be the last, to not like the GK's. Honestly, if I was their opponent, I wouldn't really like them much either. They just got too many shiny new toys while I'm still playing around with old, broken-down toys badly in need of repair.

However, if you used to play the old daemonhunters, then it's like a dream-come-true with the new codex. I've been waiting for a while, and I'm going to savor it now.

AdeptSister wrote:Thank you very much for the wonderful reports! Question: Why during the last game did you cast hammerhand more than force weapons? It seems like force weapons could have been more useful against the paladins and dreadknights.

Usually, if you're going against a low-count MEQ unit, then S5 Hammerhanded power weapons will kill them faster. If you're going after larger 4-5 man paladin units, then use the force weapons. And if you're going after an already wounded dreadknight, S5 power weapons has a better chance to do them in. If you're facing a healthy dreadknight, then go for the force weapon. Wounding them on 6's isn't reliable unless you have more guys in your unit (or a hammer).

DarthDiggler wrote:I don't know why the third round opponent would choose Draigo as his General. I would have chosen the much cheaper Inquisitor in order not to give up so many victory points. Also why wouldn't he assault a ven dread with the Dreadknight? It's 60 victory point higher than the regular dread he ended up assaulting. Interesting....

Yeah, I would've picked the Inquisitor as well. However, Draigo is hard to kill and my opponent probably wasn't expecting him to die so easily. He also probably didn't realize how nasty Heroic Sacrifice is because he never experienced it before.

Vendreads are really, really tough to kill. There's no guarantee that his dreadknight would be able to kill him, even if he had penned on all 5 of his hits (though 2-3 would be more average). He did the right move. Get the easy 135 VP's as opposed to the much harder 195 VP's.

SabrX wrote:

DarthDiggler wrote:I don't know why the third round opponent would choose Draigo as his General. I would have chosen the much cheaper Inquisitor in order not to give up so many victory points. Also why wouldn't he assault a ven dread with the Dreadknight? It's 60 victory point higher than the regular dread he ended up assaulting. Interesting....

Do you know how hard it is to kill a Venerable Dreadnought? They are tough to kill! IMO, Bobby made the right decision by going after the easier Dreadnoughts.

In retrospect, he probably didn't expect Draigo getting insta-gib by Crowe.

Spoken like a true general who tried-and-tried-but-failed to kill my vendreads.

Great battle reports, jy2!

The last picture reminds me of Ian Holm in Time Bandits. "It's like standing in a bloody well!"

Thank you JY2 for the great game, pictures and battle reports!

I was really happy that I had an opportunity to play you at ArdBoys and finally settle the score once and for owe: Crowe & Dreadnoughts vs. Draigo and Dreadknights!!!

Even though I made grievous errors: deploying first rather than second from reserve on turn 1, forgetting my re-rolls to wound on 1s the whole game and that moronic multi assault against you assassin, justicar and dreadnought I can now say without a shadow of a doubt that your Crowe list is the superior army list!

Good luck in September at the next round!!!

p.s.

Some history behind this battle:

JY2 used to play a Daemonhunter army with Land Raiders (obviously, there was no other allowed transport) and 2-4 Rhinos with inquisitorial storm troopers with melta guns. I played 2-3 Land Raiders with PURE Grey Knights, and Stern who always deepstruck with a terminator group. As the new codex came our two Daemonhunter lists evolved in their completely opposite ways: JY2 upgraded the stormtroopers with their melta guns to 4 shot Dreadnoughts and gave the rhinos to the Grey Knights, while my list replaced the Land Raiders with an equal amount of Storm Ravens and had even more units deepstrike (now with working teleport homers and a +2/-2 reserve rolls). In other words, this was a battle of Codex ideology that I had been itching to play for a full year!!!

The only way to decide is to look at the two lists, look back over any batreps with each and ask "which list have I had more fun playing with?" and I know this is cheesier than mech IG with melta guns but you have to enjoy yourself or there's no point playing...

However, I like that your answer to MSU armys is fighting fire with fire....MSU knights!!!

Imp. Monkey
PS. Because of this I'm not gonna vote, cast my vote for whichever is more enjoyable for you...

pirifier sguad is like paladin's , but cost less,but the paladins are stronger andcrowe is like draigobut crowe is bleeping awesome in close combat, but draigo is overall awsome


Automatically Appended Next Post:
its goood

Congrats on your win man. It was earned in every aspect.

Great reports jy2, just a couple minor things I noticed (apologies if these have already been mentioned, I read the whole thread but might have missed them).

jy2 (Game 1) wrote:Because his Powerfist wolf guard was still in base with my transport and I forgot to move this turn, he auto-hit and blows it up. Damn. That was stupid of me. I kill a bunch of hunters and he kills 2 purifiers, but because he damaged my rhino 3 times, he actually won combat. Luckily, I pass my No Retreat saves.

You actually would have won this combat, results against vehicles that do not have a weapon skill (i.e. Anything but walkers) are completely ignored for the purposes of combat results in a multiple assault.

jy2 (Game 3) wrote:They then fail morale and fall back. Why can't the Tau be more like this? I also insta-gib 2 pallies with my psyfleman dreads.

Nothing wrong with this, but it looks from the later pictures like the Paladins are in the same place that they ended up after the tank shock. Since you killed 2 of 5 and he was already fleeing, he should have had to run an additional 2d6" (fleeing units automatically fail all morale checks), which likely would have put him out of charge range the next turn when he auto-rallied.

Your first point is wrong. Any damage results are counted towards combat resolution.

Here's a few pics of some of the other armies in attendance:


Here's a photo of Janthkin's nids. He took first.


Mech Blood Angels. Janthkin played him for game #3 and got a draw out of it. That knocked the BA player down to 4th, thus allowing Gus to make the Semi's. If he had won, Gus would've been out.


Single-raven paladin Grey Knights. Got massacred by Gus in round #3.


Some of his (the Grey Knight player's) cool objective markers, representing the 4 Gods of Chaos and Chaos Undivided.


Hybrid Eldar with Eldrad. Unlucky fellow drew Janthkin's nids in round #1 and got massacred.


Triple-raven Death Company Blood Angels. I believe Gus scored a major victory against him in round #1. Afterwards, he had to leave, so the TO had to step in with his ringer army.


The TO's MotF Ironclad dread army. He stepped in as the ringer opponent after the BA player had to leave. Though his list was illegal (4 heavy support choices), it was just for fun as his opponents were pretty much out of the running. He was also about 300pts short as he just tacked on Lysander and a land raider to his standard 1750 list. He then proceeded to get 2 massacres. Lol.


-------------------------------------------------------------

pretre wrote:Great battle reports, jy2!

The last picture reminds me of Ian Holm in Time Bandits. "It's like standing in a bloody well!"

Thanks. Were you referring to the last picture of battle #3 or to the picture of me standing next to Gus and Janthkin? Lol.

Grey Therion wrote:Thank you JY2 for the great game, pictures and battle reports!

I was really happy that I had an opportunity to play you at ArdBoys and finally settle the score once and for owe: Crowe & Dreadnoughts vs. Draigo and Dreadknights!!!

Even though I made grievous errors: deploying first rather than second from reserve on turn 1, forgetting my re-rolls to wound on 1s the whole game and that moronic multi assault against you assassin, justicar and dreadnought I can now say without a shadow of a doubt that your Crowe list is the superior army list!

Good luck in September at the next round!!!

p.s.

Some history behind this battle:

JY2 used to play a Daemonhunter army with Land Raiders (obviously, there was no other allowed transport) and 2-4 Rhinos with inquisitorial storm troopers with melta guns. I played 2-3 Land Raiders with PURE Grey Knights, and Stern who always deepstruck with a terminator group. As the new codex came our two Daemonhunter lists evolved in their completely opposite ways: JY2 upgraded the stormtroopers with their melta guns to 4 shot Dreadnoughts and gave the rhinos to the Grey Knights, while my list replaced the Land Raiders with an equal amount of Storm Ravens and had even more units deepstrike (now with working teleport homers and a +2/-2 reserve rolls). In other words, this was a battle of Codex ideology that I had been itching to play for a full year!!!

Hey Bobby,

You've given me quite the battle every time we play. I think my battle against you have helped to convince me that paladins are indeed a very good and competitive build. Don't be surprised if you see me playing paladins in the future with some ideas from your own armies.

The multi-assault wasn't really a bad idea. The vindicare and dreads don't really have much killing power in assault. On average, you probably would've held them off in combat for your dreadknight to finish off next turn. Unfortunately, you failed all those saves.

The new GK codex had so much flexibility that I no longer needed my land raiders. Also, I just fell in love with those dreads right away. Finally, purifiers were just so cool and I already had the halberd models anyways. It was just a natural progression for my army, at least until I buy/build some of the newer stuff.

But I bet in another 6 months, our armies will probably change again. Yours will probably start to look more like mine as you try new things (i.e. dreads) and mine will probably start to look more like yours (paladins in stormravens).

Imperial Monkey wrote:The only way to decide is to look at the two lists, look back over any batreps with each and ask "which list have I had more fun playing with?" and I know this is cheesier than mech IG with melta guns but you have to enjoy yourself or there's no point playing...

However, I like that your answer to MSU armys is fighting fire with fire....MSU knights!!!

Imp. Monkey
PS. Because of this I'm not gonna vote, cast my vote for whichever is more enjoyable for you...

I actually have a lot of fun with both. My interceptor list is more of a challenge to play and slower due to the higher model-count, but I just love their mobility. Purifiers are just solid in all facets of the game and gives me more dependability. Plus, I'm more comfortable and experienced with them.

I've already decided on my purifiers. I will use my interceptors in casual games for more practice before I take that virgin army to the tournaments.

Dobby wrote:pirifier sguad is like paladin's , but cost less,but the paladins are stronger andcrowe is like draigobut crowe is bleeping awesome in close combat, but draigo is overall awsome

I'll play-test Draigo some more. I know he is good. My only question is how to make a good list for him. I like what Bobby's done with his Draigo list. It's very similar in concept to my tyranid all-reserves alpha strike army. My future Draigo-paladin army may be something like that.

unityvybe wrote:Congrats on your win man. It was earned in every aspect.

Thanks!

TehCheator wrote:Great reports jy2, just a couple minor things I noticed (apologies if these have already been mentioned, I read the whole thread but might have missed them).

jy2 (Game 1) wrote:Because his Powerfist wolf guard was still in base with my transport and I forgot to move this turn, he auto-hit and blows it up. Damn. That was stupid of me. I kill a bunch of hunters and he kills 2 purifiers, but because he damaged my rhino 3 times, he actually won combat. Luckily, I pass my No Retreat saves.

You actually would have won this combat, results against vehicles that do not have a weapon skill (i.e. Anything but walkers) are completely ignored for the purposes of combat results in a multiple assault.

You are right. Thanks. Even I can learn a thing or 2.

TehCheator wrote:

jy2 (Game 3) wrote:They then fail morale and fall back. Why can't the Tau be more like this? I also insta-gib 2 pallies with my psyfleman dreads.

Nothing wrong with this, but it looks from the later pictures like the Paladins are in the same place that they ended up after the tank shock. Since you killed 2 of 5 and he was already fleeing, he should have had to run an additional 2d6" (fleeing units automatically fail all morale checks), which likely would have put him out of charge range the next turn when he auto-rallied.

So what you're saying is that they could fall back multiple times due to multiple instances. I must say that I never really considered that. Always thought that once you're falling back, then you're falling back and don't need to take morale tests anymore. But after checking the rules, it seems as if you are right again.

Hey, I learned 2 new things today!

jy2 wrote:

pretre wrote:Great battle reports, jy2!

The last picture reminds me of Ian Holm in Time Bandits. "It's like standing in a bloody well!"

Thanks. Were you referring to the last picture of battle #3 or to the picture of me standing next to Gus and Janthkin? Lol.

Exactly.

Lukus83 wrote:Your first point is wrong. Any damage results are counted towards combat resolution.

Where does it say that? The only quotes I can find about it are:

BRB Page 63 wrote:In a multiple fight including enemy vehicles and other unit types, the result of the fight is worked out as normal against the latter, ignoring the vehicles

Then later in the "Walkers" section we have the line:

BRB Page 73 wrote:Each roll made on the Vehicle Damage table against a walker counts as a single wound for the purposes of working out who won the combat.

Seems to be pretty clear that only damage results against Walkers affect combat resolution, and that other vehicles are completely ignored.

Edit: Grammar

@tehcheator: I believe you are right. I've been playing this wrong for a while.

Ok I'm in the wrong on this one. I also assumed it was all vehicles. Should have pulled out the rulebook.

Really enjoyed all three of the battle reports.
My favourite picture was of the Vindicare assassin on top of the building, artfully concealed by the bright sunshine while his allies were in darkness.

When is the next round of battle reports?

Honestly? I'm not sure. I've been very busy with work lately and haven't had time to play.

I will, however, be attending the Ard Boyz Semi-finals on Sept. 17 so there will be some batreps then.

jy2 wrote:Honestly? I'm not sure. I've been very busy with work lately and haven't had time to play.

I will, however, be attending the Ard Boyz Semi-finals on Sept. 17 so there will be some batreps then.

I'll look forward to those and good luck!



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Though it does look like some people think you have already had more than enough luck!

Lady luck, she is a fickle girl. She may hold your hand one minute, and then turn around and slap you in the face the next.

Very entertaining reports. Good luck with the finals.

Crowe is definitely more likely to get you to the Semi's.

good reps there jy2

haven't had time to read through the whole thing but you don't get a warding stave save from perils, warding stave only works against attacks from cc.

bagtagger wrote:haven't had time to read through the whole thing but you don't get a warding stave save from perils, warding stave only works against attacks from cc.

GW FAQ wrote:Q: Can the save granted by a Nemesis warding stave
be taken against all Wounds suffered whilst the wielder
is engaged in close combat and not only against
Wounds caused by close combat attacks? (p54)
A: Yes.

Gop wrote:Very entertaining reports. Good luck with the finals.

Thanks! Gotta make it pass the Semi-finals first before I get to the Finals.

Zalmout wrote:Crowe is definitely more likely to get you to the Semi's.

Yeah, I'll be using Crowe. I'm looking at some serious competition in the Semi's with Janthkin, Gus, Reecius, ChristianA and others at our locale.

Zid wrote:good reps there jy2

Thanks. Too bad you can't make it to the Semi's. I'm starting to have more and more respect for stormraven-builds and would like to see how well they do against tougher competition.

bagtagger wrote:haven't had time to read through the whole thing but you don't get a warding stave save from perils, warding stave only works against attacks from cc.

It's now in the FAQ's (thanks TehCheator for the reference) that they do get to use their Warding Staves for all wounds in close combat, not just those from cc attacks. That's why they're even more useful now since I have a tendency to perils a lot with my GK sergeants.

Just wanted to throw a quick note out thanking you for these (and all the other) batreps.

They're really professionally done, entertaining and at a very high level of play. In addition, you respond to all the posters and keep a positive attitude. Love it!

Thank you!

Rather convenient that your Interceptors came so late during your Round 1 game. I was of the belief that if you forget your reserve rolls in a tournament setting, you lose the squad. You had everything to gain by bringing them in late which was a large part of you killing your opponent's traitor. Was your opponent ok with you forgetting reserves and then bringing them later? I'm rather curious as how reserves get handled in other places.

warboss_Russ! wrote:Just wanted to throw a quick note out thanking you for these (and all the other) batreps.

They're really professionally done, entertaining and at a very high level of play. In addition, you respond to all the posters and keep a positive attitude. Love it!

Thank you!

And thank you as well. Wow...professionally done. I'm truly flattered.

You really get more enjoyment out of the hobby with a positive attitude. Sometimes, I really don't understand why people would get into this hobby with a negative attitude. Why go into a social hobby if you're not going to be enjoying it much when you interact with others? I guess people are what people are.

James S wrote:Rather convenient that your Interceptors came so late during your Round 1 game. I was of the belief that if you forget your reserve rolls in a tournament setting, you lose the squad. You had everything to gain by bringing them in late which was a large part of you killing your opponent's traitor. Was your opponent ok with you forgetting reserves and then bringing them later? I'm rather curious as how reserves get handled in other places.

It really is going to depend on how you and opponent work it out. In any type of gaming environment, if anything questionable occurs, talk with your opponent and work out a solution together. If that cannot be done, then call the TO over to make the final decision. Forgetting about your reserves could be a double-edged sword. That also means I missed 4 rounds where they could have contributed to the battle but didn't because I forgot about them.

In this case, my opponent was a nice person. Then again, so was I. He actually didn't realize (or he forgot maybe) that his VP was worth 5KP's and moved him into in cover. I then told him that he shouldn't do that. I told him to instead hide his VP inside/behind the transport so he couldn't be shot because he would be giving up 5KP's had he moved him into cover instead of out of LOS. Even in this type of competitive event, you can still be nice. Be nice to someone and they are more likely to be nice back to you.

BTW, my interceptors didn't kill his traitor. It was my dread with an insta-killing shot after he climbed up terrain to barely see his traitor.

Well, as usual, a very surprising end to a fantastic game, Good job

As far as the semi-finals go, good luck and may the warlords of the dice smile favorably upon you!