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DarthDiggler wrote:Mordrak really needed a Librarian to be with him. It looks like he added Mordrak to get to 2500pts, but the Libby placement with Mordrak is key. He could have placed them right next to your castle and hit 3 dreads, a razorback and a rhino with Warp Rift. That's 5 automatic penetrating hits on the top of turn 1 and a hood to slow down fortitude. He would have lost them in assaults, but not before a possible crippling blow on the top of turn 1.

The synergy of Mordrak + Libby forces the enemy to spread out (or reserve) far enough to deny cover to a large part of the enemy army. I think he missed that opportunity.

I agree that Mordrak is a little out of place there. Looks like he took a 2K list and just added Mordrack, ghosts knights and some other stuff to get it to 2.5K.

But tactics-wise, he had to make a choice. Use Mordrak to support the rest of his army and threaten my main force, or go after my messenger unit. Because of his mistake in deployment, he really had no choice but to send Mordrak after my messenger unit.

Shouldn't have Mordrak automatically rallied due to ATSKNF? So when you assaulted them they automatically get to fight back with you? I am pretty sure he has it and that is the rule on that ability. Most likely you would have still chased him off - but assaulting the unit makes them come right back into the fight.

jy2, congrats on tabling your opponent. I've never been impressed with Mordrak. He's a one trick pony. GK vs. GK gets pretty wacky with both sides using fortitude.

I look forward to reading your next btrp.

GoatboyBBMA wrote:Shouldn't have Mordrak automatically rallied due to ATSKNF? So when you assaulted them they automatically get to fight back with you? I am pretty sure he has it and that is the rule on that ability. Most likely you would have still chased him off - but assaulting the unit makes them come right back into the fight.

After checking the rules again, I believe you are right and we played it wrong. That combat should have happened, though with psyk-out grenades, I did have a good chance of wiping them out.

Thanks for catching our mistake.

SabrX wrote:jy2, congrats on tabling your opponent. I've never been impressed with Mordrak. He's a one trick pony. GK vs. GK gets pretty wacky with both sides using fortitude.

I look forward to reading your next btrp.

Other than against Bobby's paladins and my GK-vs-GK test game, I actually rarely play against other grey knight players. And this was the very 1st time I played against another GK Crowe-Purifier build. I'm actually kind of surprised at the result. I thought it would be a lot closer fight.

I think Mordrak has his uses, though you need to design the right list for him. Unfortunately, this wasn't it. He's not the best GK character and builds using Mordrak are not exactly balanced, but he sure is one of the funner characters. I really enjoy using him in combination with shunting interceptors and dreadknights. It's not exactly a very balanced build and I would never take it to a competitive tournament, but it sure is a helluva lot of fun to play.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
So far, there are 3 24-pt Massacres, including Reece's Space Wolves, an ork army and black templars! There's several 23-pt Massacres, including me, an IG army, horde orcs (Reece's round #2 opponent), eldar and dark eldar. Unfortunately, my teammates Janthkin and Gus bot got draws on round #1 so wouldn't be joining as at the top tables. Janthkin's nids had to fight tooth and claw to come back from behind to pull off the draw against a raider-spam Deldar army. Gus' tau was soundly beating his orc opponent, but his opponent managed to pull off the tie by getting his messenger (an orc nob biker!) into Gus' deployment zone while Gus failed to get his into enemy territory.

Now I was hoping to fight any of the following 3 opponents: orks, deldar or Reece's space wolves. Instead, I get matched up against a wraithguard eldar army instead. WTF?!? Wraithguards? Wraithlords? Are they actually a competitive eldar build? I would soon find out....


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Ard Boyz Semi-final Game #2 - Purifiers vs Wraithdar


Grey Knights 2500 List #2 - Crowe-Purifiers (My list)

Crowe

Psyfleman Vendread - 2x TL-Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo
Psyfleman Vendread - 2x TL-Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo

5x Purifiers - 2x Psycannons, 2x Halberds, 1x Hammer, Rhino w/Dozers + Searchlights
5x Purifiers - 2x Psycannons, 2x Halberds, 1x Hammer, Rhino w/Dozers + Searchlights
5x Purifiers - 2x Psycannons, 2x Halberds, 1x Warding Stave, Razorback w/Psybolt Ammo + Searchlights
5x Purifiers - 2x Psycannons, 2x Halberds, 1x Warding Stave, Razorback w/Psybolt Ammo + Searchlights
10x Strike Squad - 2x Psycannons, Psybolt Ammo, Rhino w/Dozers
10x Strike Squad - 2x Psycannons, Psybolt Ammo, Rhino w/Dozers

5x Interceptors - 1x Psycannon, 1x MC-Hammer

Psyfleman Dread - 2x TL-Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo
Psyfleman Dread - 2x TL-Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo
Psyfleman Dread - 2x TL-Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo



2500 Eldar - Eldrad Wraithdar



Eldrad
Farseer - Fortune, Guide, Spirit Stones

10x Dire Avengers - Bladestorm, Exarch w/Dual Shuriken Catapults, Wave Serpent w/TL-Brightlance
10x Dire Avengers - Bladestorm, Exarch w/Dual Shuriken Catapults, Wave Serpent w/TL-Eldar Missile Launcher
10x Wraighguards - Spiritseer (Warlock) w/Conceal
10x Wraighguards - Spiritseer (Warlock) w/Enhance
10x Wraighguards - Spiritseer (Warlock) w/Enhance

Wraithlord - Brightlance, Sword
Wraithlord - Brightlance, Sword
Wraithlord - Starcannon, Sword


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Scenario #2 - Kaptur da Flag!

Mission: This is an objectives mission but with only 1 sole objective in the middle. At the end of the game, the army with the most scoring units within 6" of the objective wins. It uses the Pitched Battle deployment.

Massacre = 5 or more scoring units than your opponent. Major Victory = 3-4 more scoring units. Minor Victory = 1-2 more scoring units claiming the objective than your opponent.

Deployment: Pitched Battle

Initiative: Grey Knights


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I really don't know much about this army. It is such a rare and unusual army. Honestly, going into this match, I had no expectations whatsoever and was quite surprised that he did this well. I knew wraithguards were tough, and doubly so when Fortuned...but he had no invuln save whatsoever. He's only got 5 scoring units while I have 8, but his scoring units are much more resilient. But most importantly, his AT is weak....or so I thought. Now, I have 2 strategies. One is to go after his scoring units. The second is to go after his wraithlords first as I don't want to get locked in combat with them.

I decided to go after his scoring units....


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Deployment:

My deployment:

I combat-squad my strikers.

Eldar deployment:


My strategy is simple. Shoot down his troops and assault them when they get close enough.

He fails to seize the initiative.


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Grey Knights 1

I start off aggressively, advancing 6" and disembarking everyone. Crowe gets into the rhino.


My shooting phase. I actually make a big mistake here. It was more of a mental error. (I did the same thing as Reecius when he played against my knights with his Bjorn wolves). I look at his wraithlords and think to myself, damn, it's going to be tough to kill his T8 wraithlords. I then fire at his wraithguards, thinking that I was firing at T8 models when I was actually firing at T6 ones. Thus, I didn't bother firing S4 stormbolters at them because I thought it couldn't hurt them (though I did roll to wound them normally with my psycannons and autocannons as if they were T6). I was also rolling to wound them on 6's with my S5 stormbolters.

Anways, despite my mistake, I downed an entire unit of wraithguards with spiritseer, though it took my entire army just to do so. Had I remembered to fire my stormbolters correctly, I probably would have killed more.


Eldar 1

His farseer and Eldrad fortunes the 2 remaining wraithguard units as well as 1 wraithlord (indicated by the dice on each unit). They advance.


His left dire avengers go after my interceptors....


....and bladestorm them to death.


Then his wave serpent with bright lance pops my vendread. At first, he rolls a 6 on the vehicle damage table, which I make him re-roll. He still gets the wrecked result.


Wraithlord starcannons take out 2 strikers.


Grey Knights 2

Overview of the top of Turn 2. I only move my left units to go after his disembarked dire avengers. The rest of my infantry stay still. Dreadnoughts advance.


1 dread wrecks his left serpent, and my knights shoot down 6 avengers. They pass morale. As a matter of fact, they would only fail morale once the entire game!


On the right, I weapon destroy and immobilize his other serpent.


Wow! Fortuned wraithguards are tough! I fire most of my army at 1 unit and only kill 5. We're talking about heavy 4 psycannons here, or 8 shots per purifier unit! I also put 1W on his farseer. Without fortune, I probably would have wiped out another unit of wraithguards.


Eldar 2

Eldar advances.


I didn't realize wraithguards have AP2 guns! Had I known, I would have probably deployed in such a way as to get cover from his shooting. Anyways, they fire at one of my purifier unit. We have a little disagreement over cover, but instead of arguing over it, I just get the TO to come here to check for us. As I expected, the TO rules in my favor and I only lose 2 purifiers. He also brightlances my other vendread to death with his wraithlord. At first he rolls a 6, which I make him re-roll. He then rolls another 6 and still explodes my vendread!


This purifier unit, however, was out in the open. His guided wraithguards fire at me and I go-to-ground. I make 3 6+ cover saves! That's about the only time I roll well this game....when I am going-to-ground. Lol.


Grey Knights 3

Overview of the top of Turn 3. The calm before the storm....


Is eldar in trouble?


Fortune is really starting to get annoying. I only kill 3 wraithguards with my shooting - 2 from the left unit and 1 from the right one. I also put 2W on the middle wraithlord after firing at it with all my dreads.


My opponent's saves are hot! I fire 1 unit of S5 stormbolters into his unit of 4 dire avengers and he only fails 1 save.


Finally, this is what I've been waiting for. I multi-assault his units, fully expecting to wipe out both of his wraithguards (and the wraithlord).


However, on the left, both units of purifiers suffer Perils while trying to cast Hammerhand, and my 2++ warding stave fails his save! I do manage to kill 2 wraithguards though.


On the right, again I lose my warding stave purifier to Perils while trying to unsuccessfully cast Hammerhand. I do, however, kill another 2 wraithguards, but Eldrad kills my dreadnought.


We tie combat. Also, Crowe kills his wraithlord. Uh oh...I'm in trouble next turn. He's about to charge in with his wraithlords, and I've already lost both of my 2++ warding staves to Perils!


Eldar 3

His dire avengers get ready to bladestorm Crowe.


The small 3-man DA unit bladestorms and kills Crowe!!! He does about 4 wounds and I fail 2 of them.


Wraithlord charges my knights. 10-man DA unit also charges into the fray.


I do horrible, losing 3 guys to Perils, including both hammers. My right hammer unit (against his wraithguards + dire avengers) actually successfully casts Cleansing Flame, but I still lose him to Perils on 1,1. However, my opponent was making his saves like a champ, losing maybe only 1 dire avenger. Needless to say, he wipes out all but 1 purifier as I whiff my attacks.


Grey Knights 4

Let's see if I can get his avengers to run away. I send 3 tanks through them but they pass all their Morale tests.


My shooting does squat. Not a single unsaved wound. I then throw in my dread, hoping to tie up his wraithguards with Eldrad.


He wipes out both my dread and my lone purifier in combat with his wraithlord. This photo is actually of his Movement phase.


Eldar 4

Deja vu? Nah, it's just wraiths moving.


Wraithguards fire at my strikers out in the open. I go-to-ground and make another 3 6+ cover saves. Lol. If only I could do that to wound his guys in combat. Sigh. 1 striker dies. Eldrad splits off and goes after my last dread, and his wraithlord shoots down 1 purifier. Lastly, he stuns one of my rhinos.

Eldrad and the wraithlord would then assault. The wraithlord wipes out the 2 purifiers.


Grey Knights 5

After another 4 tank shocks on both his units, he finally fails Morale for his larger DA unit. They fall back.


Eldrad kills my last dread in combat.


Eldar 5

Avengers continue falling back.


2 troops go to claim the objective.


The rest of his guys move.


He wipes out my strikers with his shooting. Didn't need his wraithlord to assault them. Heck, he didn't even need wraithguard shooting. That unit of 3 dires bladestorms my strikers to death!


We then see if he game continues and it does not. He's got 3 scoring units claiming the middle objective. I have no troops left. Heck, I even lost all my dreads! I ended up with +4 points only.




Major Victory for Eldar!!!


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My wraithdar opponent would then go on to face Reece's Space Wolves on table #1 for 1st place. Unfortunately, it was just a bad matchup for him going up against 21 missile launchers, 5-6 twin-linked lascannons and 2 rune priests. He ended up getting massacred by Reece, who ended up #1 overall with 3 Massacres. My eldar opponent, Evan, would end up in 11th place with 46 points and was the highest placed eldar player.

Do I think I could have beat this army? You bet. I have full confidence that I can take on this army. I might have been a little surprised this time, but if I ever face this army again, you can be sure I will adjust my tactics. But I must congratulate my opponent, Evan, for doing this well with such an esoteric army. Honestly, I went into this game thinking that I would massacre his army, and that is where my main disappointment lies. I had such high expectations but such dismal results. BTW, if I had only managed to draw with him, I would have made it to the Ard Boyz Finals.

Oh well, coming up next. Grey Knights versus more Grey Knights.

I see two warp spiders? So much for WYSIWYG....

Red Corsair wrote:I see two warp spiders? So much for WYSIWYG....

Yeah, that's very bad. The whole point of this tournament from Trade Sales is to get people to buy stuff.

DarthDiggler wrote:

Red Corsair wrote:I see two warp spiders? So much for WYSIWYG....

Yeah, that's very bad. The whole point of this tournament from Trade Sales is to get people to buy stuff.

Honestly any man who is willing to pay $450 for 28 foot infantry I think should be given a break in terms of WISIWYG

Can't wait to see the battle vs eldar. This whole thread just proves that no matter how much prep you do chances are you'll still get Fecked at Ard Boyz. I applaud you for still showing your battles even with losses, a lot of other people on here seem to have fallen into a black hole and I doubt its cause they did well.

Ha ha, yea usually the case with me ; )

Not to derail thread but as a person who loses often I usually wait for the winner to post. Why have double post? Now since Jy2 does such a good job postin reports it is good to see wins and losses.

When I saw lists I saw no "sisters" I take it they out of the Meta?

Where I played there were no Orks, Guard, Nids, Tau or Sisters.... Doesn't mean they are all out of the meta, some times the draw is strange....

Game #2 updated to Turn 3.

Red Corsair wrote:I see two warp spiders? So much for WYSIWYG....

DarthDiggler wrote:
Yeah, that's very bad. The whole point of this tournament from Trade Sales is to get people to buy stuff.

I give him props for actually buying 28 wraithlords.

Actually, I'm very nice and casual with my opponents. Last year at Ard Boyz in round 1, I played against a mechguard player who forgot to bring his infantry models! I just let him proxy with space marines and other models until his girlfriend was able to bring in his models 45 minutes into our game!

It did cost me the tournament as he was my only defeat (a minor loss), but nonetheless, I have fun playing against tough lists run by good players.

rivers64 wrote:Honestly any man who is willing to pay $450 for 28 foot infantry I think should be given a break in terms of WISIWYG

Yeah, anyone who's invested that much money or time into his models deserves a chance to get to use them IMO, especially if he has a good attitude and the proxies are kept to a minimum.

IG88 wrote:Can't wait to see the battle vs eldar. This whole thread just proves that no matter how much prep you do chances are you'll still get Fecked at Ard Boyz. I applaud you for still showing your battles even with losses, a lot of other people on here seem to have fallen into a black hole and I doubt its cause they did well.

His army did take me by surprise, but that's how you learn to deal with other army builds - by experience. Next time I play against this build, I am confident I can beat it. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Red Corsair wrote:Ha ha, yea usually the case with me ; )

I'm sure everyone has experienced this throughout their gaming careers, with maybe some more than others. This was exactly what happened to me the first time I went against Janthkin's nids and Gus' Tau with my grey knights, but sometimes it's good to be humbled. Shows that you're not the center of the gaming multi-verse.

whitespirit wrote:Not to derail thread but as a person who loses often I usually wait for the winner to post. Why have double post? Now since Jy2 does such a good job postin reports it is good to see wins and losses.

When I saw lists I saw no "sisters" I take it they out of the Meta?

Not sure why there wasn't a lot of sisters players at the Ard Boyz. Maybe a lot of people weren't sure whether they could use the older Witchhunter rules or the newer WD Battle Sisters rules? One thing's for sure, you'll probably see a lot less sisters players in future competitive play. They definitely got nerfed.

Red Corsair wrote:Where I played there were no Orks, Guard, Nids, Tau or Sisters.... Doesn't mean they are all out of the meta, some times the draw is strange....

Yeah, sometimes it just depends on the local "meta" and not the overall gaming "meta". I've seen many Ard Boyz locations with lots of GK players and 1 location with no GK players. Sometimes, it just depends on what type of armies are run at certain areas.

Looks like the way the dice gods were going for you in this game that even if you remembered the storm bolters you wouldn't have killed much.

Considering how the game is going im still curious to see what result you can pull off. A win looks out of reach.

Is crowe 2+ with artificer armour?

Did you have much left at this point that could kill the wraithlords?

That wraithwall army is nothing to be sneezed at, but it could be much worse if he had changed one unit of wraithguard for a seer council..., that is really something you don't want to face

A bit supprised for not seeing double seercouncil lists, they are very though at this lvl and do quitewell against those msu shooty stuff.

Wraithdar at 'ard boyz! Wow, alot of money in a few models, and ballsy given the # of DE around these day.

Looks like you fell victim to the main reason this list works so well, almost no one uses it so no one knows what it can do until its to late!

rivers64 wrote:

DarthDiggler wrote:

Red Corsair wrote:I see two warp spiders? So much for WYSIWYG....

Yeah, that's very bad. The whole point of this tournament from Trade Sales is to get people to buy stuff.

Honestly any man who is willing to pay $450 for 28 foot infantry I think should be given a break in terms of WISIWYG

He should have forked out the extra little bit and been a legal army, just my .02c

We had a Footdar player at our Semis, he lost to Tyranids

Game #2 finished.

ChaosGalvatron wrote:Looks like the way the dice gods were going for you in this game that even if you remembered the storm bolters you wouldn't have killed much.

Considering how the game is going im still curious to see what result you can pull off. A win looks out of reach.

Is crowe 2+ with artificer armour?

Did you have much left at this point that could kill the wraithlords?

He was rolling well overall with his saves. My rolling was about average until I got into assault. I then lost all my sergeants to Perils, including my warding staves which would have given me protection against his wraithlords and my hammers which could kill them.

Yeah, Crowe has 2+ artificer armor. The chances of failing 2 2+ out of 4 is about 1 in 18, I think.

After my hammers died, the only thing I had that could take out his wraithlords were psycannons and S8 autocannons. Unfortunately, he passed every single save for them after the 1st wraithlord died.

Valek wrote:That wraithwall army is nothing to be sneezed at, but it could be much worse if he had changed one unit of wraithguard for a seer council..., that is really something you don't want to face

A bit supprised for not seeing double seercouncil lists, they are very though at this lvl and do quitewell against those msu shooty stuff.

This build may be even rarer than dual-seer councils. I think I may do alright against seer-councils. I would actually wound them much easier than the wraithguards with Fortuned, re-rollable 3+ saves and T6 and I think I've got the volume-of-fire necessary to take them down.

Then again, theory-hammer and playing the actual army is 2 completely different things.

gardeth wrote:Wraithdar at 'ard boyz! Wow, alot of money in a few models, and ballsy given the # of DE around these day.

Looks like you fell victim to the main reason this list works so well, almost no one uses it so no one knows what it can do until its to late!

I gotta admit, his army matches up well against the new Grey Knights. He also massacred another Grey Knight player just before playing me. Then again, his army isn't very balanced and is more prone to matchups than other eldar armies. He had 2 favorable matchups but that ended when he went up against missile-spam space wolves in game #3.

If the wraithdar got matched up against Mech IG, he would be toast too... Russes, melta/plasma spam, and vendettas will make any MEQ on foot hurt.


I think GK's lack of meltas(or simply AP1-3) and also powerful blast weapons is kind of preventing them to be a true Tier1 all-comer codex. Like I see them losing to Tau lists that spam suits(3+ and 2+). A new codex losing to 4th Ed codexes in competitive play is always fun to see tho.

Ouch! I thought you knew how Wraith Guards worked. They are well known for being T6, 5+ cover save with Spiritseer, and equipped with wraith cannons (wounds on 2's, instant death on 6's, glances vehicles on 3's and 4's, pens on 5's and 6's). They lack invulnerable saves and assault weapons that ignores armor saves. Turn 1 shooting is crucial before Eldrad fortunes. You should have focused fire the Wraith Lords, which was the true threat to your army. Lack of knowledge lead to your downfall in this game. Now you know their strengths and weaknesses, and will be better prepared next time you play them.

Focus fire his dreads on the wraithlords can back fire on him too. 4 TL S8 shots, 4+ to wound for a total of 1.78 wounds and of that 1.18 is saved. So for 1 psyfledread to put a single wound on a Wraithlord is only 36.6%, higher probability for that single wound to be saved.

So the result could of been no dead wraithlords and at the sametime all wraithguard squads are in-tact. So I think he made a good choice to focus fire on the wraithguards instead.

Wraith Guards are more vulnerable to assault without Wraith Lords backing them. A scoot and shoot using Rhino's 2 fire points could have helped. Also, Dreadnoughts can receive a cover save if deployed behind transports.

Eldar are tough to face in C&C, immediately you face the dilemma, do I take turn 2 so I can grab the objective or do I try and whittle them down before fortune goes off?...

It is tough to say weather or not it was good move trying to cast hammerhand... The ruins of warding make it almost impossible, the average die roll is 3.5 ( I know not possible but hold on) multiply that to 3 dice and you round the fraction for an average roll of 11! It is SO irritating, I almost think holding them off with the warding staff may have worked out better, but then again you weren't rolling well : /

I played Mechdar game two with Eldrad and fortuned Falcons with stones are so tough, all around I hate playing eldar in C&C...

Good report either way though, it looks like it was a blast! I love violent games!

JY2,

Have you ever considered putting a librarian in your army for the Psychic Hood? Just wondering as it seems like a good fit for the army you run.

Zarry

jy2 wrote:
However, on the left, both units of purifiers suffer Perils while trying to cast Hammerhand, and my 2++ warding stave fails his save!

Ha! That's what you get from toying with sorcery.

S'rsly, tough luck. Was this the first game where you lost all 5 Dreads?

This was a tough match up, not only because of GK's lack of low ap weapons, but the mission made it so he didn't have to split up his army. Draigo wing is another nightmare on the second mission.

Yeesh, not to sound like a jy2 fan boy but I think that's the most perils rolls I have ever seen in a single game from you. Had your warding staves survived I think you would've cleaned up. Dice were not in your favor this game. That said, eldar played very solid.

The large number of Perils of the Warp was due to Eldrad having Runes of Warding (roll 3d6 for psychic tests).

In all fairness, I don't think anyone can really account for that type of Eldar army. I've never seen 30 Wraithguard in an army, especially with current prices (I really hope they get a plastic kit with the next codex). However, I think the army would have been a bit better served by having at least one squad of Wraithguard having Conceal over Enhance. Fortune + Conceal on Wraithguard can create a fairly durable unit.

Cool reports. Thanks for sharing.

The furthest front unit should definitely get conceal in that army. It would have maybe left a couple alive in the front rank and frustrated Jy2 even further.

That was a really good report even though it appears you fell on some bad luck. Thanks for postin it!

Definately looks like lack of experience is what lost you the game here. Obviously some bad rolling at crucial times didn't help. Thanks for the report. Looking forward to the next one.

Eldar are a tough draw for the Knights IMHO... Eldrad alone kinda neuters their capabilities...