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You can still easily run a MSU army with dual vindicators if you run BA or Vulkan lists, they are very cheap compared to LasPreds. Not to mention Psyfledreads are bad against AV14 and below average against AV13. GK in general is pretty crap in terms of shooting against AV/14/13.

Aside from Ben Mohle's list, there seem to be a decline in successful Vulkan lists. I think with the emergence of GK, Salamanders can do pretty well against them with master crafted TH/SS Termies in LR and twin-linked meltas. Hopefully at the 2nd rd of Ard Boys we will see some winniing vulkan lists.

The problems with Vindicators and Demolishers is that they are unreliable. 2/3 time they will scatter and could potentially score 0 hits. Also, Psycannons en masse have a decent chance to rend their from armor. 4 Psycannons on a relentless platform has 18.025% explosion, 18.025% wreck, and 25.85% weapon destroy against AV14. Both tank's weapon range is 24", which is the same range of the Psycannons.

IMO, at least Str8 with AP1 or AP2 spam is the best way to counter Paladins. In the current meta-game, IG, DE, SoB, and potentially Eldar are well known for fielding a lot of instant death and low AP shooting weapons.

Also, a dreadnought just needs to remove its weapon or destroy it.

So 8/9 shots hit. 1/6 penetrate. 3/6 remove the threat and 2/6 remove the threat for a turn.

But 8/9 x 1/6 glance. And 1/6 glance remove the threat permenantly and 4/6 remove the threat for a turn

So you have a 9.9% chance of permenantly removing the threat per shot and an additional 14.8% chance of removing the threat for a turn per shot.

Each dreadnought gets 4 shots...

It's not making triple vindicators look that great to be honest (decent, just not terrrific)

Sorry if this seems off-topic, but I just had an epiphany. This may be the ultimate anti-paladin list. It's also a pretty dang good all-comer's IG list as well.


CCS - 4x Meltas, Astropath - 120

Marbo - 65
9x Psyker Battle Squads - Chimera - 155
9x Psyker Battle Squads - Chimera - 155

Veteran Squad - 3x Meltas - 100
Veteran Squad - 3x Meltas - 100
Veteran Squad - 3x Meltas - 100
Veteran Squad - 3x Meltas - 100
PCS - 4x Flamers - 50
Infantry Squad - Autocannon, Commissar - 95
Infantry Squad - Autocannon - 60
Infantry Squad - Autocannon - 60

2x Vendettas - Heavy Bolter sponsoons - 280
2x Vendettas - Heavy Bolter sponsoons - 280
2x Vendettas - Heavy Bolter sponsoons - 280

Leman Russ Demolisher - 165
Leman Russ Demolisher - 165
Leman Russ Demolisher - 165

2495


Meltavets, PCS and CCS will go in the vendettas. PBS will weaken resolve and paladin unit that lost 25% or more to shooting. This would be a nasty list against paladins.

Yeah, that's pretty brutal. Wouldn't fancy that at all Good list! I think it's the combination of gunline and flankers that does it. Even with just the tanks, chimeras and infantry starting on the table, that's a lot of threats.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Actually, with initiative and pitched battle or spearhead, I think a triple raven list might hold its own in seize ground and maybe capture and control. But Dawn of War would be nasty, even opting to go second. I reckon annihilation would be a paladin win in any mission and if the air cav element is reserved in Sg or C&C then I think the on-table forces could be weakened a lot before the cavalry do appear.

But going second, I think paladins are knackered unless maybe reserving and lucky with reserve rolls. Even then, you're not going to be able to crush one half before the other arrives...

We guard player dont put CCS and PCS in vendettas, only in chimeras so that they can give orders out of it. The problem with Guard list is that they suck major balls in KP missions, the best way for them to beat a Wing list is to table them. And the best TEQ/MEQ killer for IG is the Executioner, not the demolisher. I like to run 2 Manticores and 1 Exec in my 2k+ lists. A fully kitted executioner will force your opponents to keep their infantry in cover, its very badass...

If the GK or ANY army focus down only on the Vindicators, yes they will die. But the point is having multiple threats on the table, for greater target saturation. Vulkan lists also has 5 TH/SS termies in a LR, they will destroy a 5 men Paladin squad and with all the TL meltas the list brings they can just shoot the paladins to death.

You're missing the point.

SonsofVulkan wrote:We guard player dont put CCS and PCS in vendettas, only in chimeras so that they can give orders out of it.

The CCS/PCS go in vendettas because you can't give orders to units in vehicles either and the entire list is mech.

The problem with Guard list is that they suck major balls in KP missions, the best way for them to beat a Wing list is to table them. And the best TEQ/MEQ killer for IG is the Executioner, not the demolisher.

They're talking about killing Paladins, so >S8 and AP2 or better.

Guard isn't too bad in KP missions because they too dish out volume of anti-tank range. Plus, their vehicles are better armored, making it tougher to penetrate with anything less than strength 9. A pure anti-Paladin list should focus on Lascannons, Meltaguns, and vehicles to win the day. Drop the Psyker Battle squads. GK already has a lot of psychic defense.

-Company Command Squad, 4 Meltaguns, Chimera
-Company Command Squad, 4 Meltaguns, Chimera
-Veterans, 3 Meltaguns, Chimera
-Veterans, 3 Meltaguns, Chimera
-Veterans, 3 Meltaguns, Chimera
-Veterans, 3 Meltaguns, Chimera
-Veterans, 3 Meltaguns, Chimera
-Veterans, 3 Meltaguns, Chimera
-2 Vendetta
-2 Vendetta
-2 Vendetta
-Demolisher
-Demolisher
-Demolisher

Total Points: 2495

Threat distribution is spread out. Vendettas can sit back all day rather than flying dangerously close to Psycannons. They can also neutralize Dreadnoughts early on. On top of that, this list packs 26 Meltaguns on mobile AV12 platforms and 3 Str10 AP2 large blast fired from an AV14 vehicle. While this list may not perform as well against other armies, it should overwhelm a foot-slogging paladin army.

So jy2, now that you've had three test games, the prelims and tests with the Purifiers and some voting and feedback, where are you thoughts regarding the armies/ which you'll use?

The problem with running all melta guns in guard is that they have to move dangerously close to those Pali squads to use them and you aren't going to trace line of sight with all of them through that parking lot, I like to mix in plasma guns for the added range... I think jy2 was right with the PBS, the real weakness to paladins is there lack of fearlessness, weaken resolve, even with there hood up, just avoid the 24" hood range from the libby and hit his unit with weaken resolve, force the check, walk them off the board with a vendetta or whatever you prefer.... This is why I think Purifiers are the best all around troop in the game currently.... They don't run, can take out hoard with cleansing flame, and are better at combat and shooting then any other troop....

pretre wrote:You're missing the point.

SonsofVulkan wrote:We guard player dont put CCS and PCS in vendettas, only in chimeras so that they can give orders out of it.

The CCS/PCS go in vendettas because you can't give orders to units in vehicles either and the entire list is mech.

Read the guard codex before telling a guard player what is what, pg 39 Chimera is a mobile command vehicle that allows officers to issue orders within the transport....

And I'm talking about whats best for Ard Boyz and not whats best against Draigo Wing.

Red Corsair wrote:The problem with running all melta guns in guard is that they have to move dangerously close to those Pali squads to use them and you aren't going to trace line of sight with all of them through that parking lot, I like to mix in plasma guns for the added range... I think jy2 was right with the PBS, the real weakness to paladins is there lack of fearlessness, weaken resolve, even with there hood up, just avoid the 24" hood range from the libby and hit his unit with weaken resolve, force the check, walk them off the board with a vendetta or whatever you prefer.... This is why I think Purifiers are the best all around troop in the game currently.... They don't run, can take out hoard with cleansing flame, and are better at combat and shooting then any other troop....

The problem for the PBS isn't a hood; it's reinforced aegis. Ld 4 psychic tests are rough.

vercingatorix wrote:great reports! I'm considering going to semi's myself and this thread has really helped me see what other armies can do despite me not being able to get in the number of battles you doI'm glad. Both of my grey knight builds are definitely something you may see in the Semi-finals, so consider this your scouting reports.

BTW, what army did you use at the Pre-lim's?!

It's changed some but i'm pretty sure this is what i'll be running at Semi's but I'll be in the northeast so don't be changing your army too much!
180-HQ
90 Big Mek- Kustom forcefield, bosspole
90 Big Mek- Kustom forcefield, bosspole
690-Elites
225 15 burnas w/ 3 meks
225- 15 burnas w/ 3 meks
240- 15 tankbustaz w/ nob
912-Troops
152 -12 slugga boys w/ pk, bosspole nob in truck w/reinforced ram
152 -12 slugga boys w/ pk, bosspole nob in truck w/reinforced ram
152 -12 slugga boys w/ pk, bosspole nob in truck w/reinforced ram
152 -12 slugga boys w/ pk, bosspole nob in truck w/reinforced ram
152 -12 slugga boys w/ pk, bosspole nob in truck w/reinforced ram
152 -12 shoota boys w/ pk, bosspole nob in truck w/reinforced ram
360 Fast attack
120-3 wartracks w/ rokkit launcha
120-3 wartracks w/ rokkit launcha
105- 3 warbuggies w/ rokkit launcha
360- Heavy support
120- BW w/ deffrolla rpj, 1 BS
120-BW w/ deffrolla, rpj, 1 BS
120- BW w/ deffrolla rpj, bs
Total= 2482
though I haven't decided whether or not to take another burna squad with meks, or too keep the tankbustas. I just don't have anything else to spend points on that will be useful!

SonsofVulkan wrote:

pretre wrote:You're missing the point.

SonsofVulkan wrote:We guard player dont put CCS and PCS in vendettas, only in chimeras so that they can give orders out of it.

The CCS/PCS go in vendettas because you can't give orders to units in vehicles either and the entire list is mech.

Read the guard codex before telling a guard player what is what, pg 39 Chimera is a mobile command vehicle that allows officers to issue orders within the transport....

And I'm talking about whats best for Ard Boyz and not whats best against Draigo Wing.

Read what I wrote before trying to serve me. I said you can't give orders to units IN vehicles. Obviously, Chimeras have Command vehicle that lets them order out.

Also, the whole topic was what kinds of lists would work against Draigo Wing. Try to keep on topic.

SonsofVulkan wrote:You can still easily run a MSU army with dual vindicators if you run BA or Vulkan lists, they are very cheap compared to LasPreds. Not to mention Psyfledreads are bad against AV14 and below average against AV13. GK in general is pretty crap in terms of shooting against AV/14/13.

Aside from Ben Mohle's list, there seem to be a decline in successful Vulkan lists. I think with the emergence of GK, Salamanders can do pretty well against them with master crafted TH/SS Termies in LR and twin-linked meltas. Hopefully at the 2nd rd of Ard Boys we will see some winniing vulkan lists.

I hardly see vindicators in Vulkan lists anymore. Seems like the only army that still really uses vindies are BA. Who knows, maybe all that will change when and if paladins/termaminator builds begin to dominate the scene.

Psydreads are ok against AV13. That's because you can try to set them up for side shots. I've never really had problems with AV13. But then again, I usually run from 4 to 5 psyfleman dreads so take it with a grain of salt.

Maybe Vulkan players are flocking towards the the new GK's and perhaps even Dark Eldar? Not just has there been a decline in vulkan players, but I think guard players and space wolves have gone down in tournament play as well. Instead, BA, DE and the GK's have gone up.

SabrX wrote:The problems with Vindicators and Demolishers is that they are unreliable. 2/3 time they will scatter and could potentially score 0 hits. Also, Psycannons en masse have a decent chance to rend their from armor. 4 Psycannons on a relentless platform has 18.025% explosion, 18.025% wreck, and 25.85% weapon destroy against AV14. Both tank's weapon range is 24", which is the same range of the Psycannons.

IMO, at least Str8 with AP1 or AP2 spam is the best way to counter Paladins. In the current meta-game, IG, DE, SoB, and potentially Eldar are well known for fielding a lot of instant death and low AP shooting weapons.

I agree that vindies/demolishers are not too reliable, especially if the opponent is playing MSU-mech. However, if the opponent plays an all-foot list, then there is usually a good chance that large blasts will still hit something upon scattering. But mainly, vindies/demolishers are good because they affect the way your opponent will play. That usually means that they'll spread out their guys when maybe sometimes, they don't really want to. Large blasts will screw with certain armies that normally like to play close together (i.e. nids behind a gaunt screen packed together for cover saves, synapse and Shadows protection or Draigowing staying behind another paladin unit for the 3+ cover).

Artemo wrote:Also, a dreadnought just needs to remove its weapon or destroy it.

So 8/9 shots hit. 1/6 penetrate. 3/6 remove the threat and 2/6 remove the threat for a turn.

But 8/9 x 1/6 glance. And 1/6 glance remove the threat permenantly and 4/6 remove the threat for a turn

So you have a 9.9% chance of permenantly removing the threat per shot and an additional 14.8% chance of removing the threat for a turn per shot.

Each dreadnought gets 4 shots...

It's not making triple vindicators look that great to be honest (decent, just not terrrific)

Yup. Psyfleman dreads en masse will take down any armor not AV14.

jy2 wrote:Sorry if this seems off-topic, but I just had an epiphany. This may be the ultimate anti-paladin list. It's also a pretty dang good all-comer's IG list as well.

CCS - 4x Meltas, Astropath - 120

Marbo - 65
9x Psyker Battle Squads - Chimera - 155
9x Psyker Battle Squads - Chimera - 155

Veteran Squad - 3x Meltas - 100
Veteran Squad - 3x Meltas - 100
Veteran Squad - 3x Meltas - 100
Veteran Squad - 3x Meltas - 100
PCS - 4x Flamers - 50
Infantry Squad - Autocannon, Commissar - 95
Infantry Squad - Autocannon - 60
Infantry Squad - Autocannon - 60

2x Vendettas - Heavy Bolter sponsoons - 280
2x Vendettas - Heavy Bolter sponsoons - 280
2x Vendettas - Heavy Bolter sponsoons - 280

Leman Russ Demolisher - 165
Leman Russ Demolisher - 165
Leman Russ Demolisher - 165

2495

Meltavets, PCS and CCS will go in the vendettas. PBS will weaken resolve and paladin unit that lost 25% or more to shooting. This would be a nasty list against paladins.

Wow...that's one pretty scary army! It's got a little something for mech, terminator-builds and hordes. Hopefully, no one steals this list for the Ard Boyz.

Artemo wrote:Yeah, that's pretty brutal. Wouldn't fancy that at all Good list! I think it's the combination of gunline and flankers that does it. Even with just the tanks, chimeras and infantry starting on the table, that's a lot of threats.

Actually, with initiative and pitched battle or spearhead, I think a triple raven list might hold its own in seize ground and maybe capture and control. But Dawn of War would be nasty, even opting to go second. I reckon annihilation would be a paladin win in any mission and if the air cav element is reserved in Sg or C&C then I think the on-table forces could be weakened a lot before the cavalry do appear.

But going second, I think paladins are knackered unless maybe reserving and lucky with reserve rolls. Even then, you're not going to be able to crush one half before the other arrives...

I think the key to beating such a list is to take down their mobility....namely the vendettas. Take them down and the veterans (as well as flamer units) would be stranded. Because even if the stormravens can get to the bulk of the army - the demolishers, PSB and stubborn, screening foot-soldiers - the vendettas can just move away and keep piling up the shooting. Meanwhile, they're still scoring with the vets inside. It's a tough list to beat unless you've got good ranged AT (i.e. lots of psyfleman dreads or similar). My purifiers will probably do better against this type of list than my paladins, though it'll probably be a tough battle for them as well.

SonsofVulkan wrote:We guard player dont put CCS and PCS in vendettas, only in chimeras so that they can give orders out of it. The problem with Guard list is that they suck major balls in KP missions, the best way for them to beat a Wing list is to table them. And the best TEQ/MEQ killer for IG is the Executioner, not the demolisher. I like to run 2 Manticores and 1 Exec in my 2k+ lists. A fully kitted executioner will force your opponents to keep their infantry in cover, its very badass...

If the GK or ANY army focus down only on the Vindicators, yes they will die. But the point is having multiple threats on the table, for greater target saturation. Vulkan lists also has 5 TH/SS termies in a LR, they will destroy a 5 men Paladin squad and with all the TL meltas the list brings they can just shoot the paladins to death.

Regarding the CCS/PCS, I think that depends. If you're playing IG Air Cav, you really won't have a choice as most of your troops will be mounted up in those valks/vends. Chimeras will be at a minimum in such an army. Really, you won't be relying on FRF!SRF! for such an army. Instead your command squads will be issuing orders to twin-link those meltas or forcing the opponent to re-roll cover once you disembark your guys from the vendettas.

Any mech list will have a disadvantage in KP missions, especially MSU-mech. But luckily for guard players and MSU, you really don't have to worry too much about KP's at the Ard Boyz Semi-finals, so mech away....

I agree that the executioner is one of the better MEQ-killing tanks. However, due to costs and the fact that it can't insta-kill paladins (and the ever-annoying TWC), the demolisher may work slightly better here. The demolisher is a solid all-comer's tank as well that is quite durable to shooting. I do miss the executioner though. I also used to run 1 with plasma sponsoons back in my guard days!

Though Vulkan armies have meltas, good thing they don't spam them like guards! More accuracy for less shots, plus some close-combat oomph! That may make for a good matchup, especially with a Null Zone libbie.

SabrX wrote:Guard isn't too bad in KP missions because they too dish out volume of anti-tank range. Plus, their vehicles are better armored, making it tougher to penetrate with anything less than strength 9. A pure anti-Paladin list should focus on Lascannons, Meltaguns, and vehicles to win the day. Drop the Psyker Battle squads. GK already has a lot of psychic defense.

-Company Command Squad, 4 Meltaguns, Chimera
-Company Command Squad, 4 Meltaguns, Chimera
-Veterans, 3 Meltaguns, Chimera
-Veterans, 3 Meltaguns, Chimera
-Veterans, 3 Meltaguns, Chimera
-Veterans, 3 Meltaguns, Chimera
-Veterans, 3 Meltaguns, Chimera
-Veterans, 3 Meltaguns, Chimera
-2 Vendetta
-2 Vendetta
-2 Vendetta
-Demolisher
-Demolisher
-Demolisher

Total Points: 2495

Threat distribution is spread out. Vendettas can sit back all day rather than flying dangerously close to Psycannons. They can also neutralize Dreadnoughts early on. On top of that, this list packs 26 Meltaguns on mobile AV12 platforms and 3 Str10 AP2 large blast fired from an AV14 vehicle. While this list may not perform as well against other armies, it should overwhelm a foot-slogging paladin army.

That's a good list as well, though it is a little more specialized. Seems like such a waste not to put scoring units in those fast vendettas, though you do get 6 extra chimera hulls! Either ways, both spell trouble for Draigowing.

Just Dave wrote:So jy2, now that you've had three test games, the prelims and tests with the Purifiers and some voting and feedback, where are you thoughts regarding the armies/ which you'll use?

I like both lists. I think Draigowing may be slightly better suited for the Semi-finals based on the scenarios, though I still think the purifiers are more well-rounded overall. Moreover, I've got more experience with purifiers as well. But mainly, the determining factor to which army I may well bring will be whichever army that will be less common at the Semi's, and right now, that's looking like my Crowe-purifiers.

Red Corsair wrote:The problem with running all melta guns in guard is that they have to move dangerously close to those Pali squads to use them and you aren't going to trace line of sight with all of them through that parking lot, I like to mix in plasma guns for the added range... I think jy2 was right with the PBS, the real weakness to paladins is there lack of fearlessness, weaken resolve, even with there hood up, just avoid the 24" hood range from the libby and hit his unit with weaken resolve, force the check, walk them off the board with a vendetta or whatever you prefer.... This is why I think Purifiers are the best all around troop in the game currently.... They don't run, can take out hoard with cleansing flame, and are better at combat and shooting then any other troop....

Basically, meltavets are suicide squads. They need to work in teams to bring down one unit. Otherwise, they're as good as dead next turn. That's a strategy you really don't want to rely on in Seize Ground missions (or in the Semi-final scenarios). That's why I always prefer to have at least 1 unit of infantry squads. They act as objective holders in objectives-based games and screening units in others. Moreover, you can instead opt to put them in the vendettas for some cheap and mobile scoring.

As more purifiers, IMO they are the most versatile troop choice in the GK codex and quite possibly in all of 40k as well (that may make for another interesting topic for debate).

Janthkin wrote:

Red Corsair wrote:The problem with running all melta guns in guard is that they have to move dangerously close to those Pali squads to use them and you aren't going to trace line of sight with all of them through that parking lot, I like to mix in plasma guns for the added range... I think jy2 was right with the PBS, the real weakness to paladins is there lack of fearlessness, weaken resolve, even with there hood up, just avoid the 24" hood range from the libby and hit his unit with weaken resolve, force the check, walk them off the board with a vendetta or whatever you prefer.... This is why I think Purifiers are the best all around troop in the game currently.... They don't run, can take out hoard with cleansing flame, and are better at combat and shooting then any other troop....

The problem for the PBS isn't a hood; it's reinforced aegis. Ld 4 psychic tests are rough.

Very true. However, PBS can still be useful when those 6 vendettas and even some meltavets are able to take out some dreads (there's usually not as many of those in a Draigowing than in a Crowe-purifier build).

vercingatorix wrote:
It's changed some but i'm pretty sure this is what i'll be running at Semi's but I'll be in the northeast so don't be changing your army too much!
180-HQ
90 Big Mek- Kustom forcefield, bosspole
90 Big Mek- Kustom forcefield, bosspole
690-Elites
225 15 burnas w/ 3 meks
225- 15 burnas w/ 3 meks
240- 15 tankbustaz w/ nob
912-Troops
152 -12 slugga boys w/ pk, bosspole nob in truck w/reinforced ram
152 -12 slugga boys w/ pk, bosspole nob in truck w/reinforced ram
152 -12 slugga boys w/ pk, bosspole nob in truck w/reinforced ram
152 -12 slugga boys w/ pk, bosspole nob in truck w/reinforced ram
152 -12 slugga boys w/ pk, bosspole nob in truck w/reinforced ram
152 -12 shoota boys w/ pk, bosspole nob in truck w/reinforced ram
360 Fast attack
120-3 wartracks w/ rokkit launcha
120-3 wartracks w/ rokkit launcha
105- 3 warbuggies w/ rokkit launcha
360- Heavy support
120- BW w/ deffrolla rpj, 1 BS
120-BW w/ deffrolla, rpj, 1 BS
120- BW w/ deffrolla rpj, bs
Total= 2482
though I haven't decided whether or not to take another burna squad with meks, or too keep the tankbustas. I just don't have anything else to spend points on that will be useful!

As you don't have to worry as much about KP's, this list may work. However, what worries me the most is the durability of your troop choices. 12 slugga boys will have problems with the more assaulty MEQ builds (BA, SW and GK's), not to mention the other assault armies. Burnas in BW are decent, but I can't somehow shake the feeling that you need some lootas in there somewhere. Definitely not your normal competitive BW ork build.

I say, bring it and have some fun!

Hrm, I wonder if you mentioned that you were using the banner to Activate the Force Weapons? The Grey Knight book says that they automatically pass the test to activate their weapons, but it's still a power of sorts, so I would imagine that you would have said, 'I'll use the banner to activate their force weapons'.

I usually do this in games because I don't expect my opponent to know my Codex front to back, namely because I don't know theirs most of the time and don't like to slow things down by constantly asking questions. You seem like a fairly laid back player so I would imagine you probably say this, although you did say you forgot to mention it to him. Is it not common practice to announce that the activation is automatically passed? I believe it can still be hooded.

Matt1785 wrote:Hrm, I wonder if you mentioned that you were using the banner to Activate the Force Weapons? The Grey Knight book says that they automatically pass the test to activate their weapons, but it's still a power of sorts, so I would imagine that you would have said, 'I'll use the banner to activate their force weapons'.

I didn't quite say that. Instead, I said "you're dead because of my banner," to which my opponent replied "what?!?" Then I realized that he didn't know.

I usually do this in games because I don't expect my opponent to know my Codex front to back, namely because I don't know theirs most of the time and don't like to slow things down by constantly asking questions. You seem like a fairly laid back player so I would imagine you probably say this, although you did say you forgot to mention it to him. Is it not common practice to announce that the activation is automatically passed? I believe it can still be hooded.

I assumed he knew because 1) he's played against my GK's quite a bit and 2) we both have almost all the codices in .PDF format. I assumed that he also had it and had looked through it. Against other players that I'm not too familiar with, I will usually ask.

And the way I normally play is sometimes a little fast. If I knew he had a hood around after wounding him with my banner unit (and in a casual game), I would say, "ok, you can attempt to hood me now." Otherwise, if I knew he had no defense against it, I would just say, "ok, he's dead now." I guess we're so familiar with each other's gaming styles that we sometimes do this (as well as make certain assumptions).



Coming up next....Purifiers vs Tau!

A good Dark Eldar list should match paladins, as I said earlier, consider following:

1 Vect
1 Duke Sliscus the Serpent

4 Kabalite Trueborn,4 Blasters,
Venom w/dual splintercannon,
4 Kabalite Trueborn,4 Blasters,
Venom w/dual splintercannon,
4 Kabalite Trueborn,4 Blasters,
Venom w/dual splintercannon,

8 Kabalite Warriors
Raider, Flickerfield
8 Wyches Haywire Grenades
Hekatrix, Agoniser,
Raider, Flickerfield
8 Wyches Haywire Grenades
Hekatrix, Agoniser,
Raider, Flickerfield
8 Wyches Haywire Grenades
Hekatrix, Agoniser,
Raider, Flickerfield
8 Wyches Haywire Grenades
Hekatrix, Agoniser,
Raider, Flickerfield

4 Beastmaster, 4 Khymerae, 6 Razorwing Flock

1 Razorwing, Flickerfield, Nightshields
1 Ravager, Flickerfield, Nightshields
1 Ravager, Flickerfield, Nightshields


And this list would quite well work against anything out there

Finally, my last practice match with SabrX. Of the 4 armies we've tested, he may be the most skilled with this army. It's not new, and it's not something that he hasn't played before. As a matter of fact, we've been having a see-saw battle between his Tau and my purifiers. The last time we played, he beat me though at that time, I brought my Interceptor grey knights. Before that, I beat him with my purifiers. And then before that, he drew once again with my Interceptor grey knights.

Now, I'm bringing my highly optimized Crowe-purifier knights, and we are playing Scenario #2, the dogpile mission. Also, he decided to try out a new unit in this game....he replaced 1 unit of 3 broadsides with 3 sniper drone teams!

Can he overcome my purifier knights? Looks like it may be an uphill battle for him....or not? Stay tuned....


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Ard Boyz Practice Game #4 - Purifiers vs Sniper Tau


Grey Knights 2500 List #2 - Purifier-Dreads II (My list)



Crowe

Psyfleman Vendread - 2x TL-Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo
Psyfleman Vendread - 2x TL-Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo

5x Purifiers - 2x Psycannons, 2x Halberds, 1x Hammer, Rhino w/Dozers + Searchlights
5x Purifiers - 2x Psycannons, 2x Halberds, 1x Hammer, Rhino w/Dozers + Searchlights
5x Purifiers - 2x Psycannons, 2x Halberds, 1x Warding Stave, Razorback w/Psybolt Ammo + Searchlights
5x Purifiers - 2x Psycannons, 2x Halberds, 1x Warding Stave, Razorback w/Psybolt Ammo + Searchlights
10x Strike Squad - 2x Psycannons, Psybolt Ammo, Rhino w/Dozers
10x Strike Squad - 2x Psycannons, Psybolt Ammo, Rhino w/Dozers

5x Interceptors - 1x Psycannon, 1x MC-Hammer

Psyfleman Dread - 2x TL-Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo
Psyfleman Dread - 2x TL-Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo
Psyfleman Dread - 2x TL-Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo



2500 Tau



Shas'el - Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Multi-tracker

2x Crisis Suits - Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Multi-tracker
3x Crisis Suits - Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Multi-tracker
3x Crisis Suits - Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Multi-tracker

6x Fire Warriors
20x Kroots
20x Kroots
20x Kroots
14x Kroots
14x Kroots

8x Pathfinders - Devilfish w/Disruption Pods
2x Piranhas - Fusion Blaster, Targeting Array, Disruption Pods
2x Piranhas - Fusion Blaster, Targeting Array, Disruption Pods

3x Sniper Teams
3x Broadsides - 2x Target Locks, Leader w/2x Shield Drones
3x Broadsides - 2x Target Locks, Leader w/2x Shield Drones


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Scenario #2 - Kaptur da Flag!

Mission: This is an objectives mission but with only 1 sole objective in the middle. At the end of the game, the army with the most scoring units within 6" of the objective wins. It uses the Pitched Battle deployment.

Massacre = 5 or more scoring units than your opponent. Major Victory = 3-4 more scoring units. Minor Victory = 1-2 more scoring units claiming the objective than your opponent.

Deployment: Pitched Battle

Initiative: Grey Knights (4x in a row!)


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Deployment:

Map of the terrain:


Again, we are fighting for the holiest cause. We are both fighting for....turtle hill!

My deployment:

I combat squad my strikers. 8 versus 6....my troops outnumber his.


My deployment, rearview.


Finally, a game were I remember to deploy my interceptors. They stay out of LOS to my left.


Tau then castles to my left, directly across from my interceptors.


Tau deployment, rearview. That's not so scary....



He then infiltrates all his kroots, making sure to give them all cover. Uh....now I'm starting to get a little uncomfortable.


He fails to seize the initiative yet again.


NOTE - As this was the 1st time my opponent has ever used sniper teams, he actually played it wrong. He thought they were all 1 big unit. Afterwards when he checked the Tau FAQ's, he then found out each team was an independent unit. No worries though. That is my gift to him for not bringing another unit of 3 broadsides.


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Grey Knights 1

GK movement. Front transports pop smoke.


Interceptors move normally and then run.


I then focus-fire on his pathfinders (where the blue dice are on the ruins) and kill all but 1. He then fails morale and leaves the game. I don't think my shooting did anything else of significance. His suits were in hiding.


Tau 1

Tau movement. Fireknives (crisis suits with plasma/missile pods) expose themselves. Piranhas release their gun drones. The other pair moves flat-out so couldn't.


His sniper drones shoot at 1 unit of disembarked purifiers. He increases their BS by 1 and lowers my cover by 1 with markerlights. I go-to-ground so as not to get wiped out and lose 2 instead.


His broadsides go crazy. Bam! 3 exploded transports, just like that. He also shoots down 4 purifiers from 1 unit. It's a good thing I don't need to go to him!


Grey Knights 2

Overview of the top of Turn 2.

Movement was minimal as I didn't take pictures of my movement phase.


Interceptors jump 12" and pass all dangerous terrain tests. I wreck 3 piranhas with my shooting.


My dreads were able to see 1 unit of 2-fireknives through the hole in the ruins (on level 2). I then blow them away.


Finally, Interceptors make it into assault with 1 unit of kroots and sweep them after winning combat. 1 troop down. 5 more to go. They then consolidate into cover. That is one very, very dead unit of grey knights next turn.


Tau 2

Tau movement. Kroots start to advance slowly....mainly so that they can shoot at my knights next turn.


Another nasty Tau shooting turn. He wrecks the front rhino and immobilises/shakes the middle rhino (on top of the central ruins). Crowe then eats a railgun shot to the face even after going-to-ground. I've only got 1 mobile rhino left! I thank the scenario-gods for making me not have to go after my nemesis.



He then explodes the central rhino. Darn. I was hoping that he would only wreck it. His snipers then fire at my strike combat squad, again raising his BS by 1 and lowering my cover by 1. And again, I am forced to go-to-ground in order to not get wiped out. I lose 2 strikers.


Kroots run towards the objective. Of course, he easily wipes out my interceptors in his deployment zone.



To be continued.....

Wow, for once his dice seem to be the ones on fire... Ouch, a lot of game left though...

Wooo exciting. I am proud of those interceptors. Always make their points back up in my opinion. (if you remember to use them )

Tau 2 (Continued)

At the end of turn 2, SabrX has 2 huge instances of bad luck.


While trying to JSJ (that's jump-shoot-jump....a common tactic of Tau crisis suits) back into the ruins and out of LOS, he rolls 2 1's for his dangerous terrain tests and loses a suit. He then fails morale for them and they fall back! They are still on the board though and have a chance to regroup next turn.


He does the same for these 2 fireknives, and rolls another double-1's for dangerous terrain. Again he fails morale and they both huff it back (but are on the board still)!!!

Though it was unfortunate for him, I was trying hard not to laugh. Unfortunately, I wasn't very successful, but man, that sucks for him.


Grey Knights 3

GK movement. Hammerfiers disembark and go after his kroots. I am hoping for a multi-assault. My bottom purifiers try to move out of range of kroot rapid-fire and also his sniper drones.


Lone psycannon purifier go after his other kroot squad. Though he is only one man, you will see how much damage Cleansing Flame can do.


Rather than wait for his fireknives to regroup, I take advantage of my opponent's misfortunes and wipe them both out with my dreads (I could see them now).

I also blow away the broadside unit in the middle, shooting down his shield drones first with psycannons+stormbolters and then insta-gibbing them with my dreads (I might've already killed 1 shield drone from previous shooting....don't quite remember).

That was quite an effective shooting turn for me.


I make a mistake here and kill 2 kroots with shooting. He removes the 2 closest ones to my lone psycannon-purifier, and now I am out of assault range. Man, what a rookie mistake on my part.


In assault, my hammerfiers are only able to reach 1 kroot squad and wipe them out with Cleansing Flame and then Sweeping Advance. Unfortunately, I don't expect them to live next turn. 2 Tau troops down. 4 more to go.


Tau 3

Overview of the bottom of Turn 3.


Tau movement. He starts making his way towards the objective. Commander splits off from the kroots and jumps onto the ruins.


Broadsides split fire and take down 1 regular dread.


He wipes out my unit of hammerfiers with rapid-fire and possibly his commander.


He also wipes out the lone psycannon purifier. Gun drones then JSJ in front of his kroots to give them cover.

Lastly, his sniper teams wipe out my 3 strike squads that went-to-ground last turn (and this turn) on the middle objective. I'm down 3 scoring units now from just this turn alone.

So it's 5 troops for me and 4 troops for him. Doesn't look like I'll be getting the massacre. I'm not even sure I can achieve a major victory now.


To be concluded.... (after dinner)

Grey Knights 4

Overview of the top of Turn 4.


I move my knights back to get out of kroot rapid-fire range and also his sniper teams (out of their LOS if not range). Last rhino goes and tank-shocks his kroots. I only make it to 1 squad.


They then fail morale and fall back. I believe my rhino is still within 6" of them.

Sorry, didn't take many pictures here. I make a huge mistake. During my opponent's last turn (his Turn 3), I made a mental note to myself to take out his devilfish with fire warriors inside. Guess what? I totally forget this turn.

Part of the reason why was his last piranha. I must've fired 2 or 3 dreads at it but thanks to its disruption pods, I only manage to stun it. It really proved to be a great "distraction" unit. I also kill 2 gun drones (I believe they went-to-ground) and some kroots with my stormbolters, psycannons and 1 or 2 dreads.


Tau 4

Kroots advance. Fleeing kroots continue to fall back but only move 3-4". Devilfish cruises towards the objective.


Broadsides (or maybe it was his commander?) blow up my last rhino. Unfortunately for him, the explosion also takes out 5 kroots.


Kroots run towards the objective.


And then his black kroots (the one that lost guys in the explosion) fail morale and fall back 6".


Grey Knights 5

Overview of the top of Turn 5. This would be the last game turn.


I start consolidating my troops towards the objective. The bottom unit of purifiers, however, goes after his kroots. I need to get rid of them!


My dreads blow up his devilfish, but unlike the Ard Boyz, his fire warriors don't get pinned nor do they even lose 1 guy in the explosion.


Here is a tricky assault. My purifiers are probably about 4-5" away from his kroots and have to go through difficult terrain to assault them, so the chances of them making it into assault isn't very high. So what do I do instead? I declare the charge on his piranha and then multi-charge his kroots.


I then cast Cleansing Flame and send them running, consolidating back onto terrain and within 6" of the objective. Now that, boys and girls, is how you do it.

BTW, I forgot to attack his piranha with krak grenades (which didn't move last turn because it was stunned).


Tau 5

Overview of the bottom of Turn 5. This is the very last turn.

Right now he's got no scoring units on the objective (both units of kroots are fleeing). I've got 4 or 5 troops claiming it. Can my opponent pull off a miracle?


Both painted units of kroots continue to fall back (the unit of 2 cannot regroup). However, black squad regroups and moves towards the objective. Fire warriors also move towards the objective, but will require a good run roll to make it there.


His lone piranha goes and contests the objective to tie the game! No, just kidding.

Onto his shooting. Sniper teams take out my unit of 3 purifiers that just beat his kroots last turn. 1 scoring unit down.

I have a unit of 1 psycannon knight, hiding in the ruins. My opponent jumps his commander onto the top of the ruins and is just barely able to see the top of my lone psycannon's head. Despite going-to-ground, he doesn't survive the commander's shooting. 2 scoring units down.


Last but not least, his fire warriors get a '6' for their run roll and makes it into range of the objecitve.


With that the game ends.


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SabrX has 1 unit of kroots and his fire warriors on the objective. I've got 3 units of knights....but one of them turns out to be just out by fractions of an inch!!!



Draw!!!



Aftermath of the battle.

This is by far SabrX's best game in the series. Though I didn't win with my purifiers, it is also my funnest game of the series. A game of back-and-forth, I thought I had it after SabrX's bad luck at the end of his Turn 2. I then went on to annihilate 1 unit of broadsides and 2 units of fireknives on my next turn and thought I pretty much had the game. But SabrX never gave up and fought back tooth and nail to get the draw. IMO, by him not losing in this scenario is pretty much an upset of my grey knights. Very well done, SabrX.

Overall, I felt I made 2 mistakes that might have cost me the game. First, I shot at the unit my lone purifier was about to assault. That put him out of assault range. That was such a rookie mistake on my part, and I can't believe I did it! Secondly, I forgot to shoot at his devilfish. If I had done that on Turn 3, there was a good chance that his fire warriors would not have made it to the objective.

It appears that Tau still has a lot of kick left in them.

Great work Sabrx!

I saw your list and my jaw dropped. You also seem to have the most experience with your tau compared to the rest of your armies.

Good work guys, great BR aswell!

Thanks! It's funny how I failed three moral test after failing 2 dangerous terrain tests in from 2 separate Crisis Suit squads in the assault phase and from blowing up your Rhino, which killed 5 of my Kroots.

I also made a slight error. I thought the 3 Sniper Teams forms a single unit. After the game, I checked the FAQ and found out they deploy and act independently. Sorry jy2, it was my first time fielding Sniper Teams. It probably wouldn't have changed the outcome of the game.

It's amazing how much damage a few Purifiers can do to a whole squad of Kroots. Terrain also played a huge role in this game. jy2's forces wouldn't have lasted long if it weren't for that cursed hill in the middle that blocked TLOS! Because of it, I had to move my Kroots around. Despite a few setbacks, in the end I miraculously took out 2 scoring units and rolled a 6 on my Fire Warriors' run move!

I had a lot of fun throughout the 4 practice games games. I've learned just how different the new White Dwarf Sisters of Battle are compared to te old codex Witch Hunters. As a result I'm changing my list, and trying out new tactics. I also got a taste playing as Space Wolves and Tyranids against Paladins. Despite losing the majority of the games, I've gained valuable experience in fielding different armies and trying different play styles.

jy2, I wish you luck in the upcoming tournament semi-finals.

jy2, Sabrx i enjoy reading both of your battle reports I have been reading them for the past 3-4 months just thought i would drop a note thanking you for the great work you put into them.

Its great to see even practice games are written to better your strategy and reflect on what could of been done more efficiently for the next time you face (or you face the same kind of build).

I always thought that individual models entering dangerous terrain take those tests so that no model can ever take two wounds by failing it and hence those crisis suits would not have died.

Roll a d6 for every model ... on the roll of a 1, the model suffers a wound...

I'm not sure if I misunderstood the report but I just need some clarification. Nice report as always.

Reminds of Purifiers vs Deathwing battle...

And yet, hard fought battle till the end. Great job, both yours and SabreX'.

As MArbo did once put it: "It ain't over, till it's over!" Or wait... was it Marbo after all?

Another great battle report. I can see growing enmity between Knights and Tau.

Zaephyr you are correct, you roll for each model and they take wounds you don't roll all of them and kill off full suits... I think this would have made a pretty big difference in the game.

Also the multi-assault involving the piranha, I am not sure what you meant in the description, did you roll a terrain test? I am assuming you did I was just curious though...

This was a fun looking battle, I bet it took a lot out of you guys ; )

It's not in the pictures, but one of the suits in the middle building had already failed their terrain tests before, and had 1 wound remaining. This game happened a while back and much of it is from memory and pictures (hence the die indicating dead models or wounds). But I think I messed up on the squad in the right building and removed a whole suit. Ah well, I'll know better next time. IMO the game would have still ended in a draw because of that cursed middle terrain piece!