Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

SCs havent been opponents consent for a long time now. I would *expect* to be able to use any and all SCs in my codex that i wish, of course obeying restrictions if they exist - e.g. only in use in games of 2000 points or more, for example.

Anon - erm, why does Zhufor have an illegal weapon combo? Nothing i've seen strikes me as "this is illegal" - -he also gets to take a retinue of terminators, which can help

I think a lot of the problem in the US vs Forgeworld was that the IA books were not readily available. IIRC the books only came to the US within the last few years (maybe as far back as 2005) so a lot of people were not familiar with anything other than shadowy rumors. And let's face it sometimes the IA books supplied "cutting edge" rules/figures that were later used in normal 40K games. So the people who could afford to pay the price for the books and find someplace to have them shipped from had an advantage over the normal Joe how may never have even heard of Forgeworld. This led (IMHO) to resentment which led to the current distaste for Forgeworld.

I just wanted to throw this in here: saying that the only people who dont want to play with FW stuff either dont want to lose or havent seen the books is just not true. IA is an expansion. Some people just like to play the normal game. Look at games like Warcraft 3 and Diablo 2. Plenty of people continued to play the original game even when the expansions came out. Who knows why, but they did. Maybe they were purists, maybe they just honestly did not like the expansion content. The same can be said for IA stuff.

There are also people who are 'casual competetive.'. These people may never play in a big tournament or even a small one, but they want to play the game with the rules tournaments usually use, just so they feel like at least theyre playing something similar. I know plenty of people like this.

SOME people do just hear Forgeworld and jump to silly conclusions, but to say that there is no valid reason to not want to allow those rules even in casual games is just ignorant. Lots of people dislike FW type stuff for reasons other than not wanting to lose.

I am sure if you say IA is an expansion, then alot of people will be saying playing non expansion games only then.

All this making Forge World Legal stuff will be just keeping up with the Jones.

First in a fight you bring your fists. If your oppoent brings a knife, next time you bring a knife. Then it's a gun he brings so you bring a gun. Then it's a rocket launcher then you need to bring a rocket launcher to compete.

What is next nukes? Alot of codicies cannot compete with Forge World stuff. It's simple as that. Use your codex when playing random games with strangers. It's no fun when you can't compete when someone brings something that can't be taken down.

So if you are playing with FW stuff you will have to expect most people don't and your opponent will not be able to counter it. There is no way to come up with an all comers list espically when Forge World is considered.

Unless it's in your codex, then it should be used. Again, not everyone buys White Dwarf either so I don't like how the rumours are starting to be use units that are not in your codex.

Well I'm not the one saying IA is an expansion. It says 40k expansion on the book.

Like I was saying I really dont think it has anything to do with power. As has been stated many times, much of the FW stuff isnt overpowered at all, and sometimes even underpowered. Some people just like playing the core game without addons. Whatever your opinion is of FW stuff, it is NOT part of the core game (unless they change it in 6th, which is what this discussion was really about.) It is an expansion, said so by FW themselves. There is nothing crazy about not wanting to use expansions, it happens all of the time. Even when expansions are widely regarded as improvements over the original, there are people who just want to stick to basics.

In some areas, use of IA lists and such is common, and thats fine, no problem. If it isnt common in your area, you are not all of a sudden an ignorant, stubborn jerk if you dont want to use those supplemental rules. Some people act like they are defending the poor IA users from rude people who just dont get it, but they are ending up being rude and ignorant themselves.

You're right.

A lot of Codices can't "keep up" with Forge World.

They exceed Forge World, by and large.

There's a few units which are outliers and stupidly powerful but that's the exception not the rule for Forge World.

lledwey wrote:I just wanted to throw this in here: saying that the only people who dont want to play with FW stuff either dont want to lose or havent seen the books is just not true. IA is an expansion. Some people just like to play the normal game. Look at games like Warcraft 3 and Diablo 2. Plenty of people continued to play the original game even when the expansions came out. Who knows why, but they did. Maybe they were purists, maybe they just honestly did not like the expansion content. The same can be said for IA stuff.

There are also people who are 'casual competetive.'. These people may never play in a big tournament or even a small one, but they want to play the game with the rules tournaments usually use, just so they feel like at least theyre playing something similar. I know plenty of people like this.

SOME people do just hear Forgeworld and jump to silly conclusions, but to say that there is no valid reason to not want to allow those rules even in casual games is just ignorant. Lots of people dislike FW type stuff for reasons other than not wanting to lose.

Agreed. Its easier to refute an argument when you demonize the other side rather than addressing the common underlying concerns. If asked, most of the time I do allow FW rules and even occasionally use them but sometimes I just don't feel like putting up with the added hassle. I buy new codicies so I can get the hang of the rules in them when facing them instead of getting some nasty surprises in the middle of a tabletop game turn (which can lead to arguments and unpleasant experiences... I've seen it happen). FW books are double to triple the price of a codex so there's no way I'd be buying them on a whim just to get familiar with the 25% of the pages that are actual rules. If someone wants to try using the rules for a unit that I haven't faced before, I'll usually let them as long as they have the rules physically present (sorry, no priated PDFs on your droid or iphone) as well as a suitably converted or legitimate model. If they're wanting to use rules outside of the norm (which is rulebook + codex) and I do them the favor of allowing it, they need to do me the favor of putting down some eye candy and having the rules nearby to avoid confusion. No using that regular terminator captain with a storm bolter and powersword as Huron Blackheart or that that regular drop pod as the bigger assault ramp dreadnought FW version.

Saw this over on Warseer.

Rolsheen wrote:I was talking to the manager in charge of the Forgeworld stand at the Australian Games-Day and he said that Imperial Armour 1,2 and 3 were being re-written for the release of 6th edition 40k next year.

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=319447

This would explain pretty much everything as the original 3 book IIRC specifically state in them that the rules and models can be used in regular games of 40K.

I'm surprised they are still 2 different companies. One would think a merger can't be that far off in the future

DIDM wrote:I'm surprised they are still 2 different companies. One would think a merger can't be that far off in the future

They aren't two different companies, Forgeworld is a sub-department of GW like Distribution or Marketing.

Hear that? It's the sound of every Eldar player praying for this to happen.

Hear that other sound? It's Forge World mass-producing Wasp Walkers.

Vaktathi wrote:

DIDM wrote:I'm surprised they are still 2 different companies. One would think a merger can't be that far off in the future

They aren't two different companies, Forgeworld is a sub-department of GW like Distribution or Marketing.

well then what is the point of having 2 separate entities then? It is clear that their main goal is money, as is every business, so why not just sell their FW stuff on GW and charge a bit more like they do already? I mean Diet Coke is canned, shipped, and sold right next to regular Coke.


I know the FW stuff isn't massed produced, but that really isn't an excuse.


I'm new to all this, but from a business point of view it doesn't really make any sense. Branding is one of the biggest things a company can achieve, and separating your 2 brands isn't that sound of an idea. They have a link at the bottom of the GW page, but that to me looks like a sponsor link, not a link to "Our Special Items."

DIDM wrote:

Vaktathi wrote:

DIDM wrote:I'm surprised they are still 2 different companies. One would think a merger can't be that far off in the future

They aren't two different companies, Forgeworld is a sub-department of GW like Distribution or Marketing.

well then what is the point of having 2 separate entities then? It is clear that their main goal is money, as is every business, so why not just sell their FW stuff on GW and charge a bit more like they do already? I mean Diet Coke is canned, shipped, and sold right next to regular Coke.


I know the FW stuff isn't massed produced, but that really isn't an excuse.


I'm new to all this, but from a business point of view it doesn't really make any sense. Branding is one of the biggest things a company can achieve, and separating your 2 brands isn't that sound of an idea. They have a link at the bottom of the GW page, but that to me looks like a sponsor link, not a link to "Our Special Items."

Forgeworld is low production, high cost product. It's the niche of a niche. Like Warhammer, Warhammer 40,000 etc being seperately marketed product all under the GW name, forgeworld is simply another sub-section.